On Field Leadership.............

[Maesknoll Red]

The search for an experienced on pitch leader (who also will set the right example off field) is absolutely crucial, the team has lacked effective on field leadership since Shaun Taylor hung up his boots.

Every promotion winning side has had its on pitch general(s) '76 - Gerry Gow, '89 - Gary Shelton & Rob Newman, '97 - Shaun Taylor, who retired in 2000 (and was a bit part player leading up to retirement), thats 5 years without a natural and respected leader.

Successive Managers have failed, partly because of the lack of on pitch cajoling and organisation, the location and appointment of the right player could make Tinmans managment career, failure to employ in this area could condem him to the fate of his predecessors.

This season has been a rollercoaster of feelings, I was totally behind the decision to replace DW, I'm sure he had taken us far as he was able, I was bemused by the speed of Tinmans appointment, seemingly without considering applications. Bemusement quickly turned to hope and support, as all the right noises were made about the chances of automatic promotion, but as the season progressed, many doubts about the wisdom of not inviting applications from proven Managers arose.

Things hit a real low point with some of the home displays, not offering a threat and capitulating far to easily for a home team, but the last couple of weeks have seen me reaffirm my belief that with an astute signing or two, the continued emergence of the academy players and a seasons experience under his belt, Tinman could be in charge of a side with a genuine promotion chance.

I for one will be renewing my season ticket and along with it my hope for success.

[robins72]

The search for an experienced on pitch leader (who also will set the right example off field) is absolutely crucial, the team has lacked effective on field leadeship since Shaun Taylor hung up his boots.

Every promotion winning side has had its on pitch geneal(s) '76 - Gerry Gow, '89 - Gary Shelton & Rob Newman, '97 - Shaun Taylor, who retired in 2000 (and was a bit part player leading up to retirement), thats 5 years without a natural and respected leader.

Successive Managers have failed, partly because of the lack of on pitch cajoling and organisation, the location and apointment of the right player could make Tinmans managment career, failure to employ in this area could condem him to the fate of his predecessors.

This season has been a rollercoaster of feelings, I was totally behind the decision to replace DW, I'm sure he had taken us far as he was able, I was bemused by the speed of Tinmans appointment, seemingly without considering applications. Bemusement quickly turned to hope and support, as all the right noises were made about the chances of automatic promotion, but as the season progressed, many doubts about the wisdom of not inviting applications from proven Managers arose.

Things hit a real low point with some of the home displays, not offering a threat and capitulating far to easily for a home team, but the last couple of weeks have seen me reaffirm my belief that with an astute signing or two, the continued emergence of the academy players and a seasons experience under his belt, Tinman could be in charge of a side with a genuine promotion chance.

I for one will be renewing my season ticket and along with it my hope for success.

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I've been saying this for ages haven't had a good captain who can lead on the field since Shaun Taylor(how we could use him now!). Everyone who has done it since has had a mare of the game or gets needlessly booked(ie Doc). If your a captain you should lead by example and by the number of young players in the team we need an experienced hand that the players can look up to. If Butler was around I would have given it to him. Maybe Carey is the answer. I know he has been captain in the past and wasn't very good but he did ok against Wrexham in our last home match. Smith hasn't done much in my eyes for captaincy(except he has calmed down) and brooker has been injury prone. So maybe old (well he is compared to the kids out there)Carey should lead by example?

[Port Said Red]

Successive Managers have failed, partly because of the lack of on pitch cajoling and organisation, the location and apointment of the right player could make Tinmans managment career, failure to employ in this area could condem him to the fate of his predecessors.

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Strange though, surely we were led to believe that the main reason for appointing Tinnion was because he was seen as a leader at the club.

If he was the "legend" that some believe then he must have been the leader, the talisman, of the team certainly in the last 3 years. The same 3 years that we failed to get out of this division.

[gaz897]

If Butler was around I would have given it to him.

are you nuts? Butler was crap. Needless bookings. Every time he jumped for a ball he climbed on the strikers shoulders and gave a needless free kick away on the edge of the box. Butler was a joke. Very good point with carey however. Strong agree with that 1.

[robins72]

If Butler was around I would have given it to him.         

are you nuts?  Butler was crap.  Needless bookings.  Every time he jumped for a ball he climbed on the strikers shoulders and gave a needless free kick away on the edge of the box.  Butler was a joke.  Very good point with carey however.  Strong agree with that 1.

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I was trying to look at an experienced player who could do a good job whilst being captain. Butlers name sprang to mind thats all. Sorry if it affended you

[Maesknoll Red]

Strange though, surely we were led to believe that the main reason for appointing Tinnion was because he was seen as a leader at the club.

If he was the "legend" that some believe then he must have been the leader, the talisman, of the team certainly in the last 3 years. The same 3 years that we failed to get out of this division.

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Did anyone believe that Tinman was a leader on the field, a true, natural leader in the heat of battle.... I doubt it, there aren't many and they don't necessarily make managment material. look at the Prem top three for confirmation of playing ability / playing achievments, transfering to Managment.

Keane at Man U is a leader on the pitch, Vieira likewise, Terry & Lampard show those qualities for Chelsea. Players like this and their lower league equivilents are hard to find and if you have one who leaves or retires, very difficult to replace.

A team is 11 men, but that one individual can turn the rest into world beaters, or without him they can be also rans.

We haven't got one and we need ome.........

[BATH BOY]

tommy doherty, obvious candidate

always gives 100% quite happy to fly at Bell when he wasnt pulling his weight.

Doherty does pick up silly bookings but he gives all and that is an example that isnt always followed by others.

he'll stand up to tin man too, if he thinks he's wrong.

why do you think he lost the captains arm band.

Heard he told tinion to sit down when he spoke in dressing room as captain a bit like Bryan Robson did at Man U. when doherty speaks all goes very quiet. why? respect.

[Maesknoll Red]

tommy doherty, obvious candidate

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Without doubt Tommy is an outstanding player at this level, but as a motivator, natural leader and talisman on field, he comes nowhere near the man we need. I don't doubt his commitment to the cause or his heartfelt allegiance to City, but he hasn't got the 'presence' that any of the aforementioned players have/had - very few do.

[Port Said Red]

To be that kind of leader Tommy has to be on the pitch for 90 minutes at least 40 times a season, which isn't really happening is it?

[SimplyRed]

I've always considered the best captains are central defenders because they are the ones that can see play developing and are therefore in a position to bark orders and offer encouragement during the game.

John Terry is a prime contemporary example, while the great Bobby Moore has to be one of the greatest ever team captains, both for West Ham and for his country.

If we can bring someone in with a tenth of the leadership qualities of those two, we will be well on the way...

[bucksred]

Tommy, on field leader-youre having a laugh!! far too many stupid bookings, flying lunges, too much gobbing off- HE may think he's like Roy Keane, but he sure as hell aint.He's indisciplined, and far too inconsistent(Like Viera & unlike Keane)The skipper needs to inspire, AND keep his cool under pressure.

We've not had a leader since Rob Newman, and its one thing we really need. hopefully combined with that central defender we're after of the midfielder.

After all Tinman didnt want the skippers armband when a player either.

shame we couldnt get Lucas Redebe..........

[Maesknoll Red]

We've not had a leader since Rob Newman,

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Shaun Taylor? Widely accepted as a leader on the pitch by many, I assume you have a different opinion of him.

[bucksred]

Shaun Taylor?  Widely accepted as a leader on the pitch by many, I assume you have a different opinion of him.

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Not like Rob Newman, IMHO.

[zookeeper]

Tommy, on field leader-youre having a laugh!! far too many stupid bookings, flying lunges, too much gobbing off- HE may think he's like Roy Keane, but he sure as hell aint.He's indisciplined, and far too inconsistent(Like Viera & unlike Keane)The skipper needs to inspire, AND keep his cool under pressure.

We've not had a leader since Rob Newman, and its one thing we really need. hopefully combined with that central defender we're after of the midfielder.

After all Tinman didnt want the skippers armband when a player either.

shame we couldnt get Lucas Redebe..........

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That's one side of Tommy.

The other side is the one we saw at the play off final last year when he stood up and was counted, went for every ball, encouraged, motivated and nearly dragged a very dissapointing team off their backsides. When Tommy is doing this he is a suberb captain. I've seen Tommy be this man on so many occasions but as you say not consistently.

I think we need a few people to have these attributes. At this level any player can have an off day and when that happens we need more players to take up the role.

[gaz897]

That's one side of Tommy.

The other side is the one we saw at the play off final last year when he stood up and was counted, went for every ball, encouraged, motivated and nearly dragged a very dissapointing team off their backsides. When Tommy is doing this he is a suberb captain. I've seen Tommy be this man on so many occasions but as you say not consistently.

I think we need a few people to have these attributes. At this level any player can have an off day and when that happens we need more players to take up the role.

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totally agree zoo keeper. I think another man would be better though.

[bucksred]

That's one side of Tommy.

The other side is the one we saw at the play off final last year when he stood up and was counted, went for every ball, encouraged, motivated and nearly dragged a very dissapointing team off their backsides. When Tommy is doing this he is a suberb captain. I've seen Tommy be this man on so many occasions but as you say not consistently.

I think we need a few people to have these attributes. At this level any player can have an off day and when that happens we need more players to take up the role.

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If we saw only the positive side of the man, and I agree with you on that, then no worries, BUT the dark side is far too prevelant, and as skipper his fitness levels are an issue, others will emulate him....not good-so we gotta get someone in like Rob Newman, or as others have suggested Shaun Taylor, not Doc.

[GrahamC]

Explains why Tinnion wanted Graham Coughlan of Argyle in February then, doesn't it?

If he does finally join us, we'd be getting a guy who captained Plymouth to Championships in 2 seasons out of the last 3, is a first ball winning centre half and got 8 goals last year from centre back without taking penalties!

He's still only 30, and is in my opinion the one player we must get this summer.

[bucksred]

Explains why Tinnion wanted Graham Coughlan of Argyle in February then, doesn't it?

If he does finally join us, we'd be getting a guy who captained Plymouth to Championships in 2 seasons out of the last 3, is a first ball winning centre half and got 8 goals last year from centre back without taking penalties!

He's still only 30, and is in my opinion the one player we must get this summer.

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Hows his track record on injury? Would be worried if he has a history of it, otherwise I would agree-the man is a winner, something we do not have here at the moment.

[Lordofthebling]

we friggin need someone! Why the hell Fortune doesnt stick his 7lb lump on a ball in the air i don't know...

Tommy as a leader? The boy can hardly run. Smith. don't make me laugh. Carey. Lost it for me when he was greedy. Murray. Where are you? Thats it for me...

[Dave L]

Explains why Tinnion wanted Graham Coughlan of Argyle in February then, doesn't it?

If he does finally join us, we'd be getting a guy who captained Plymouth to Championships in 2 seasons out of the last 3, is a first ball winning centre half and got 8 goals last year from centre back without taking penalties!

He's still only 30, and is in my opinion the one player we must get this summer.

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Couldn't agree more. Coughlan could have the same impact on the team that Shaun Taylor made when he joined us from Swindon.

Let's hope we can get him.