Tinnion - No Excuses Now.

[MAGILLA]

Below is a list of all the players who have moved on from this club under the aegis of Tinnion:-

Sekani SIMPSON

Mickey BELL

Mike STOWELL

Jonathan GOULD

Craig LOXTON

Lee PEACOCK

Marvin BROWN

Christian ROBERTS

Matt HILL

Tony BUTLER

Kevin AMANKWAAH

Tony DINNING

Lee MILLER

Paul HEFFERNAN

Lee MATTHEWS

Aaron BROWN

Tommy DOHERTY

Joe BURNELL

Craig IRELAND

Joe KEITH

Louis CAREY

Clint DAVIES

Not forgetting that WOODMAN, GILLESPIE AND GOODFELLOW spent not inconsiderable amounts of time out on loan.

Bizarrely, two of them were Tinnion signings in the first place (Dinning and Heffernan), Carey was signed back and Ireland and Keith were loan signings.

That is one hell of a turnover of players in 12 months. Peacock, Hill, Brown and Doherty will be playing in the division above next season and good luck to them and Lee Miller will be playing at a higher level next year too. Seems a shame that we couldn't have held onto any of them. Also from the list above, there are EIGHT Academy players who have left in the last 12 months plus the season long loan player, Woodman, making a grand total of NINE Academy products who have failed to come up to Tinnion's exacting standards. Is that a problem with the Academy coaching, the manager, or a little bit of both? Ultimately, the decision to let that amount of Academy players leave is regrettable but also one that needs to be addressed. After all, what is the point of funding the Academy if none of its' products play any part in City's successes?

Fair enough that players' wages had to be cut from the wage bill but the club looks like it's been pulled inside out in the last season. Is this level of rebuilding really warranted? Such a shame to see Tommy leaving - it looks like it comes down to a simple clash of personalities. Hopefully Holloway will handle Tommy better and get him to realise his potential.

[Riaz]

AHEM - Joe Burnell left during Danny Wilsons rein as manager

[Alex_BCFC]

Below is a list of all the players who have moved on from this club under the aegis of Tinnion:-

Sekani SIMPSON

Mickey BELL

Mike STOWELL

Jonathan GOULD

Craig LOXTON

Lee PEACOCK

Marvin BROWN

Christian ROBERTS

Matt HILL

Tony BUTLER

Kevin AMANKWAAH

Tony DINNING

Lee MILLER

Paul HEFFERNAN

Lee MATTHEWS

Aaron BROWN

Tommy DOHERTY

Joe BURNELL

Craig IRELAND

Joe KEITH

Louis CAREY

Clint DAVIES

Not forgetting that WOODMAN, GILLESPIE AND GOODFELLOW spent not inconsiderable amounts of time out on loan.

Bizarrely, two of them were Tinnion signings in the first place (Dinning and Heffernan), Carey was signed back and Ireland and Keith were loan signings.

That is one hell of a turnover of players in 12 months.  Peacock, Hill, Brown and Doherty will be playing in the division above next season and good luck to them  and Lee Miller will be playing at a higher level next year too.  Seems a shame that we couldn't have held onto any of them.  Also from the list above, there are  EIGHT Academy players who have left in the last 12 months plus the season long loan player, Woodman, making a grand total of NINE Academy products who have failed to come up to Tinnion's exacting standards.  Is that a problem with the Academy coaching, the manager, or a little bit of both?  Ultimately, the decision to let that amount of Academy players leave is regrettable but also one that needs to be addressed.  After all, what is the point of funding the Academy if none of its' products play any part in City's successes?

Fair enough that players' wages had to be cut from the wage bill but the club looks like it's been pulled inside out in the last season.  Is this level of rebuilding really warranted?  Such a shame to see Tommy leaving - it looks like it comes down to a simple clash of personalities.  Hopefully Holloway will handle Tommy better and get him to realise his potential.

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Yep he has changed things around alot. The thing is that after the play off final we had to start again- Wilson had his 4 years and failed. Tinnion failed last season but I can see what he is trying to do. I'm optimistic about next season, especially if we can start well for once. Out of the players that have left, the only one I'd still like to be here is Matt Hill. Peacock isn't good enough for championship , nor is A.Brown. Jury is out on Docs. Good players 18 months ago, but poor since. If he could last more than 60 mins a game it would be helpful. The academy is doing well- obv there will be players that don't make it but we seem to be producing gems here and there. Out of 20 players, if you get 2 or 3 useful players it will be good. I hope Tinnion will get it right next season, I'm sure no1 wants to see him fail- but I have my doubts!

[MAGILLA]

AHEM - Joe Burnell left during Danny Wilsons rein as manager

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Did he?

[Guest]

Did he? 

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When I heard Brian (Tinnion) had been made manager I almost changed my mind, But I'd already given my word to Wycombe

Therefore, he was already going before your favorate manager was appointed.

[MAGILLA]

Yep he has changed things around alot. The thing is that after the play off final we had to start again- Wilson had his 4 years and failed. Tinnion failed last season but I can see what he is trying to do. I'm optimistic about next season, especially if we can start well for once. Out of the players that have left, the only one I'd still like to be here is Matt Hill. Peacock isn't good enough for championship , nor is A.Brown. Jury is out on Docs. Good players 18 months ago, but poor since. If he could last more than 60 mins a game it would be helpful. The academy is doing well- obv there will be players that don't make it but we seem to be producing gems here and there. Out of 20 players, if you get 2 or 3 useful players it will be good. I hope Tinnion will get it right next season, I'm sure no1 wants to see him fail- but I have my doubts!

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We didn't have to start again after Cardiff. Wilson went but I'm sure Tinnion and Lansdown were saying that only a little tinkering was required. Matt Hill has proven himself at Championship level but I trust the judgement of Sturrock and Holloway with regard to Peacock, Brown and Doherty. After all, they have got teams promoted out of the division (Sturrock twice!!) we currently find ourselves in. Holloway has even managed to stay up there!

I'd like to know who these 'gems' are that the Academy are producing. Rosenior perhaps? Need more than that - 2 or 3 would be nice.

I want Tinnion, Lansdown and everyone connected with BCFC to succeed. If I air my reservations about the certainty of that happening then the forum is the best place to do it, isn't it?

[Martyn Hocking]

Below is a list of all the players who have moved on from this club under the aegis of Tinnion:-

Sekani SIMPSON

Mickey BELL

Mike STOWELL

Jonathan GOULD

Craig LOXTON

Lee PEACOCK

Marvin BROWN

Christian ROBERTS

Matt HILL

Tony BUTLER

Kevin AMANKWAAH

Tony DINNING

Lee MILLER

Paul HEFFERNAN

Lee MATTHEWS

Aaron BROWN

Tommy DOHERTY

Joe BURNELL

Craig IRELAND

Joe KEITH

Louis CAREY

Clint DAVIES

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Most of the above were/are pants and getting them off the wage bill was both good (and necessary) business IMO. 24 outfield players will be plenty for 2005/6.

Sad to see Hill go, of course, but he went to a higher division. Miller was a wasted talent, but was never going to get past Leroy on last season's form. Ditto Heff.

You can't accuse Tins of not using youngsters effectively given the way he handled Lita and Cotterill - the likes of Marvin, Loxton and Simpson simply weren't in the same class.

I was deeply unimpressed by Tins early doors last season but the way he has gone about things in the close season has been first class. He knows who and what he wants and is happy to get rid of the dead wood at AG before pre-season training gets underway. For 'Tin-kerman' 2004-5, read 'Tin-inho' 2005-6.

Great Cheesley montage at the bottom your post by the way!

Well_Red

[MAGILLA]

When I heard Brian (Tinnion) had been made manager I almost changed my mind, But I'd already given my word to Wycombe

Therefore, he was already going before your favorate manager was appointed. 

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Sorry, but Tinnion became manager on the 5th of JUNE 2004 and Burnell signs for Wycombe on the 1st of JULY 2004 and he left under Wilson's reign? He'd given his word - verbal contract? i.e not signed anything? Could have changed his mind but didn't?

[Guest]

Sorry, but Tinnion became manager on the 5th of JUNE 2004 and Burnell signs for Wycombe on the 1st of JULY 2004 and he left under Wilson's reign?  He'd given his word - verbal contract?  i.e not signed anything?  Could have changed his mind but didn't?

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So you wanted us to keep Burnell then?

[TimmerD]

Great Cheesley montage at the bottom your post by the way!

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It was the only decent part of the post

[Rich-TWSC-]

Surely this is seperating the wheat from the chaf? Most new managers do this. Bemoan him if you don't go up this coming season.

OTIB never changes... a few players sign and it's "WE ARE GOING TO RIP THIS LEAGUE APART"... ONE player departs and the dissecting of your boss begins.

Seems bizarre.

[MAGILLA]

So you wanted us to keep Burnell then? 

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If I remember rightly, when Burnell first got into the City team, he was playing at full back and acquitted himself pretty well. So I'd be happy enough to have a young, local Academy product who can play at full back or midfield (at a push) still in the squad. I take it you don't rate the Academy coaches then especially as seeing as how many Academy products have left the club whilst your favourite manager has been in charge?

[Alex_BCFC]

Surely this is seperating the wheat from the chaf? Most new managers do this. Bemoan him if you don't go up this coming season.

OTIB never changes... a few players sign and it's "WE ARE GOING TO RIP THIS LEAGUE APART"... ONE player departs and the dissecting of your boss begins.

Seems bizarre.

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Yep, most realistic people know if we are to get promotion it will be very difficult etc. I'm actually quite pleased with who we have bought and got rif of. Only Matt Hill's departure was disapointing really.

[Guest Tactical Genius]

True to form, everyone who has left is judged as no good by the very same people who year on year start the season by saying we have the best squad in the league.

The squad that Tinnion is building is no better than the one that Wilson left us with. Weaker in midfield and defence.

As for the thread title. I foresee all manner of excuses being trotted out between September and May.

[TimmerD]

The squad that Tinnion is building is no better than the one that Wilson left us with. Weaker in midfield and defence.

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Would you mind explaining this. From defence we have lost Matt Hill and Tony Butler. Butler was past his best - IMO - which was never very good although I would agree the sale of Hill was a loss, but it was out of our control. Mickey Bell was a great servant but he had definitely lost an edge.

Midfield wise, Tinman has quite sensibly retired, and we have lost Tommy D (who had a bad season in 04/05) however, Scott Brown has emerged and hopefully we will now see Wilkshire in the centre where he belongs.

Be interested to hear your views TG.

[Evocare]

I just can't wait till the start of the season and see how we fair, Tins will be expected by many to win this league but i don't think it will be a walk in the park at all.

We really need another defender before too long or we risk missing out, hopefully the Docs transfer today will free up some wage bill money for a centrehalf.

This season will be a big test for Brain, is he going to be up to it?

I reckon so

[Guest Tactical Genius]

Would you mind explaining this. From defence we have lost Matt Hill and Tony Butler. Butler was past his best - IMO - which was never very good although I would agree the sale of Hill was a loss, but it was out of our control. Mickey Bell was a great servant but he had definitely lost an edge.

Midfield wise, Tinman has quite sensibly retired, and we have lost Tommy D (who had a bad season in 04/05) however, Scott Brown has emerged and hopefully we will now see Wilkshire in the centre where he belongs.

Be interested to hear your views TG.

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Whatever permutation you get out of the current squad then the defence is weaker than the one that contained Matt Hill. Butler held together the defence for a couple of years. The stats will speak for themselves from games that he played to those that he missed. Yes both him and Bell were past their best but Tinnion has not yet replaced them adequately. Time will tell whether Goldbourne and Heywood are up to the job, but on the evidence available the defence is weaker now than when Tinnion inherited it.

As for the midfield we are weaker down both flanks now than we were under Wilson. As for the centre, why do you assume Tinnion will suddenly start picking Wilkshire in the centre? He hasn't done so far. Scott Brown has played 20 odd games, and to be honest looks no better than Doherty did after he had played a similar number. One thing I do know is that Bradley Orr would never have got into a Danny Wilson side, ever. Nor would Wilson have gone sniffing around Swindon's and Torquay's cast offs.

Thus in conclusion we are weaker in both areas now than we were under Wilson, and weren't particularly strong under him.

[Martyn Hocking]

Hey - Colin S is in the house! Shouldn't you be on holiday Mr Sexstone? Good to see the management working hard to get BCFC up where we belong!!

Well_Red

[BCFC_Dan]

One thing I do know is that Bradley Orr would never have got into a Danny Wilson side, ever.

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Joe Burnell did, Mark Summerbell did, Darren Dunning did. None of those were any better than Bradley Orr.

Nor would Wilson have gone sniffing around Swindon's and Torquay's cast offs.

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No, well Wilson wouldn't know a bargain if you hit him in the face with it. For instance he missed Paul Parry who cost Cardiff £30k from Hereford and is now a Welsh international, and instead shelled out twice as much on Marc Goodfellow, who was rubbish at Stoke.

Thus in conclusion we are weaker in both areas now than we were under Wilson, and weren't particularly strong under him.

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I think you have to have some stronger evidence before you can draw any conclusions. What you have there is speculation and opinion, not fact.

[Guest Tactical Genius]

There is the evidence of last season, and the evidence of Tinnion's transfer dealings so far.

Pretty damning I'd say.

[RedUn]

Sorry, but Tinnion became manager on the 5th of JUNE 2004 and Burnell signs for Wycombe on the 1st of JULY 2004 and he left under Wilson's reign?

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1st July is the contract date for all players' contracts, it doesn't mean they hadn't left before then. By the same token Stewart, Heywood, Smith and Russell won't actually be our's until Friday but they have signed pre-contract agreements.

Matthews, Peacock, Carey and the Brown brothers also left because they were out of contract in 2004 and didn't like the terms they had been offered; of those, only Aaron and Louis were missed and the latter soon returned.

[TimmerD]

Whatever permutation you get out of the current squad then the defence is weaker than the one that contained Matt Hill. Butler held together the defence for a couple of years. The stats will speak for themselves from games that he played to those that he missed. Yes both him and Bell were past their best but Tinnion has not yet replaced them adequately. Time will tell whether Goldbourne and Heywood are up to the job, but on the evidence available the defence is weaker now than when Tinnion inherited it.

As for the midfield we are weaker down both flanks now than we were under Wilson. As for the centre, why do you assume Tinnion will suddenly start picking Wilkshire in the centre? He hasn't done so far. Scott Brown has played 20 odd games, and to be honest looks no better than Doherty did after he had played a similar number. One thing I do know is that Bradley Orr would never have got into a Danny Wilson side, ever. Nor would Wilson have gone sniffing around Swindon's and Torquay's cast offs.

Thus in conclusion we are weaker in both areas now than we were under Wilson, and weren't particularly strong under him.

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Well you are writing off Goldbourne and Heywood so why not chuck in Skuse as well.....

I made no assumptions about where Wilkshire would play - I said I hope.

Whilst I too have reservations about Russell in particular I am more than willing to give him and all our new players the benefit of the doubt until I have seen them play a few times.

I think you are making too many assumptions in your post and whilst I have not been convinced by Tinman as a manager to date, I am feeling more confident about him as time goes by.

[MAGILLA]

1st July is the contract date for all players' contracts, it doesn't mean they hadn't left before then. By the same token Stewart, Heywood, Smith and Russell won't actually be our's until Friday but they have signed pre-contract agreements.

Matthews, Peacock, Carey and the Brown brothers also left because they were out of contract in 2004 and didn't like the terms they had been offered; of those, only Aaron and Louis were missed and the latter soon returned.

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I understand the 1st of July point. The implication in Burnell's interview though, was that he could have changed his mind but had come to some verbal agreement with Wycombe Wandererers.

[Guest]

If I remember rightly, when Burnell first got into the City team, he was playing at full back and acquitted himself pretty well.  So I'd be happy enough to have a young, local Academy product who can play at full back or midfield (at a push) still in the squad.  I take it you don't rate the Academy coaches then especially as seeing as how many Academy products have left the club whilst your favourite manager has been in charge?

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I take it you don't rate the manager in charge of the 1st team. Oh wait a minute, you won't even if he lead us to successive promotions, a champion leagues win and back to back wins in the FA Cup.

I'm delighted at the way the rubbish has been cleared out of BCFC but the judgement as you quite rightly say is what happens next season.

Unlike you, though, I'm prepared to give Tinnion my support from the first game. If we aren't successful at the end of the season, well yes things need to be looked at.

I assume should we win promotion you'll be the first to admit you were wrong to doubt his clear out? (just like that prediction that we'd only sell 5'000 season tickets this year, eh? )

[MAGILLA]

I take it you don't rate the manager in charge of the 1st team. Oh wait a minute, you won't even if he lead us to successive promotions, a champion leagues win and back to back wins in the FA Cup.

I'm delighted at the way the rubbish has been cleared out of BCFC but the judgement as you quite rightly say is what happens next season.

Unlike you, though, I'm prepared to give Tinnion my support from the first game. If we aren't successful at the end of the season, well yes things need to be looked at.

I assume should we win promotion you'll be the first to admit you were wrong to doubt his clear out? (just like that prediction that we'd only sell 5'000 season tickets this year, eh?  )

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Tinnion, as I have said before, should never have got the job. I don't see why that should be front page news now. I didn't think he was the right man for the job then and still haven't seen anything since to alter my original thoughts. Just being honest. I've set my stall out from day one. I'd be more than happy if he proved me wrong. Just can't see it happening. Nothing I saw last season convinced me otherwise. And there have been more able candidates available in the meantime. You think he'll be a successful manager - good for you - I hope he is but I've not seen much to convince me that he will be.

How many seasons have to go by before the situation is reassessed then TomF? 2, 3 or 4 like DW? Are we allowed to constructively criticise then? Not last pre-season apparently before a ball had been kicked in anger, but not also after 10 games as the team hadn't 'gelled'. Nor apparently after 25 games as there were disruptive elements in the team necessitating 'One to Ones'. But not after 30+ games either as we still had a chance of auto but neither after 40 games when we still had a chance of the play-offs.

But neither is criticism permitted this summer before any signings are made as we can't truly assess the calibre of Tinnion's signings. And not 'post-summer-signing-spree' either as we haven't had time for the new signings to 'bed-in'. And so the Happy Clappers perpetuate the 'vicious circle'.

I think it's sad that you consider players like Tommy Doherty and Aaron Brown as 'rubbish' but football is all about opinions. It's also a shame that you are 'delighted' that so many Academy graduates can also be considered 'rubbish'. I'm concerned that this level of 'tinkering' (read: demolition) seems to have gone almost unchecked. Would Sturrock or Jones really have dismantled the squad so much last year? Bear in mind that Sturrock took Wednesday over when they were below us and ultimately got them promoted - a feat he would no doubt have achieved if he was City manager. The wage bill did need to be drastically cut but have we got a more talented squad of players than we had last year? Will this short-term 'slashing' of the wage bill condemn us to another season in Division 3?

I don't recall predicting a ST sales figure of 5000 (perhaps you could find that quote for me) but 9000+ last season down to the high 6000's tells its own story. I thought they may fall and fall they have.

I'll ignore your churlish digs but I can assure I will be supporting BCFC 100% from Day One. Perhaps a little bit more circumspection in your observations regarding Forum Members' opinions and their loyalties to the club would be a good idea. Supporting the manager 100% and supporting BCFC 100% aren't necessarily the same thing.

[RedUn]

Below is a list of all the players who have moved on from this club under the aegis of Tinnion:-

Sekani SIMPSON

Mickey BELL

Mike STOWELL

Jonathan GOULD

Craig LOXTON

Lee PEACOCK

Marvin BROWN

Christian ROBERTS

Matt HILL

Tony BUTLER

Kevin AMANKWAAH

Tony DINNING

Lee MILLER

Paul HEFFERNAN

Lee MATTHEWS

Aaron BROWN

Tommy DOHERTY

Joe BURNELL

Craig IRELAND

Joe KEITH

Louis CAREY

Clint DAVIES

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... and now GOODFELLOW

Below is a list of all the players who have moved on to/within this club under the aegis of Tinnion:-

Scott BROWN

Bradley ORR

Steve BROOKER

Jamie SMITH

Ryan HARLEY

Joe ANYINSAH

Scott GOLBOURNE

Dave COTTERILL

Cole SKUSE

Danny WRING

Alex RUSSELL

Grant SMITH

Matt HEYWOOD

Marcus STEWART

[bucksred]

MAGILLA's right............its now Tinmans team, and expectations are high for the team, as already alluded to. Aint no excuses now for failure.........

Lets hope we don't start like last season eh.

Hes got a new slate, unless he cocks things up like last season, would be fair comment wouldnt it?

[MAGILLA]

MAGILLA's right............its now Tinmans team, and expectations are high for the team, as already alluded to. Aint no excuses now for failure.........

Lets hope we don't start like last season eh.

Hes got a new slate, unless he cocks things up like last season, would be fair comment wouldnt it?

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Apparently not br! Even stating the obvious that this is well and truly Tinnion's team and that there can be no (more) excuses seems to stir the Happy Clappers from their slumber into a melee of torrid drum-banging!

Clean slate indeed and now it's time to deliver.

[richieb]

Apparently not br!  Even stating the obvious that this is well and truly Tinnion's team and that there can be no (more) excuses seems to stir the Happy Clappers from their slumber into a melee of torrid drum-banging!

Clean slate indeed and now it's time to deliver.

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Yep, last season was supposed to be a promotion winning season.

But it turned into a dire one full of excuses, all unseen circumstances apparently.

Now I think MAGILLA has summed up the expectations very well.

There can be NO EXCUSES & it has to be a season of deliverence.

It will take some convincing, but I will be holding my hand up at the end of the season, if BT is still in charge. As him still at the helm will mean promotion.

I want it, but we will have to see a massive improvement on happenings of last season.

[Guest]

Tinnion, as I have said before, should never have got the job.  I don't see why that should be front page news now.  I didn't think he was the right man for the job then and still haven't seen anything since to alter my original thoughts.  Just being honest.  I've set my stall out from day one.  I'd be more than happy if he proved me wrong.  Just can't see it happening.  Nothing I saw last season convinced me otherwise.  And there have been more able candidates available in the meantime.  You think he'll be a successful manager - good for you - I hope he is but I've not seen much to convince me that he will be.

How many seasons have to go by before the situation is reassessed then TomF?  2, 3 or 4 like DW?  Are we allowed to constructively criticise then?  Not last pre-season apparently before a ball had been kicked in anger, but not also after 10 games as the team hadn't 'gelled'.  Nor apparently after 25 games as there were disruptive elements in the team necessitating 'One to Ones'.  But not after 30+ games either as we still had a chance of auto but neither after 40 games when we still had a chance of the play-offs. 

But neither is criticism permitted this summer before any signings are made as we can't truly assess the calibre of Tinnion's signings.  And not 'post-summer-signing-spree' either as we haven't had time for the new signings to 'bed-in'.  And so the Happy Clappers perpetuate the 'vicious circle'.

I think it's sad that you consider players like Tommy Doherty and Aaron Brown as 'rubbish' but football is all about opinions.  It's also a shame that you are 'delighted' that so many Academy graduates can also be considered 'rubbish'.  I'm concerned that this level of 'tinkering' (read: demolition) seems to have gone almost unchecked.  Would Sturrock or Jones really have dismantled the squad so much last year?  Bear in mind that Sturrock took Wednesday over when they were below us and ultimately got them promoted - a feat he would no doubt have achieved if he was City manager.  The wage bill did need to be drastically cut but have we got a more talented squad of players than we had last year?  Will this short-term 'slashing' of the wage bill condemn us to another season in Division 3?

I don't recall predicting a ST sales figure of 5000 (perhaps you could find that quote for me) but 9000+ last season down to the high 6000's tells its own story.  I thought they may fall and fall they have.

I'll ignore your churlish digs but I can assure I will be supporting BCFC 100% from Day One.  Perhaps a little bit more circumspection in your observations regarding Forum Members' opinions and their loyalties to the club would be a good idea.  Supporting the manager 100% and supporting BCFC 100% aren't necessarily the same thing.

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Where did I say I didn't expect some changes if things don't come to light. The point I was trying to make was that things aren't going to change between now and the start of the season. What exactly is the point in starting the season off in such a negative fashion.

I know you have your benchmark of 10-15 games and the axe will have to grind - fair enough. But personally I would like to see him given the season - SL has already stated that changes in a season such as ward were big mistakes. If he hasn't delivered at the end of his 2nd season then yes, questions have to be asked and there are going to be very few excuses if any at all.

I can find you the links about season tickets if you like, as they've already gone over the 7'500 mark now and are heading for the same figure as last year (8'500 at season start) it doesn't really matter - not least given the extra increase in prices meaning that 7'000 tickets = the equivalent revenue of 9'000 last year.

Roll on August, I'm bored already.