Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 They are also facing to sale Earnshaw. I suppose this shows being prudent is probably a god idea in todays climate. In a way I'm pleased to hear this because I consider them our biggest rivals now, in terms of expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy g Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 What about that lovely Mr Hamman ? I thought he had bags of cash to help them out with little problems like this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Br 1st ol Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 How did Hamman make his money? Does he still have much left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider gliders Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 How did Hamman make his money? Does he still have much left? Sellin` Sheep young un! Ha-Ha! :Hmm, yeah that's really funny Tarquin.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcfccider Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 I reckon there will be a few more clubs in trouble. This is why the current board should be praised for their prudence as apart from the super clubs, the playing field is at last beocming more level. What's the news about Reading? No more offers on Leeds table Owen Gibson Thursday January 22, 2004 The Guardian Leeds United are fast running out of financial options after it emerged there was no chance of an external investor rescuing the club before Monday's deadline for raising fresh funds. With creditors having already knocked back a £5m offer from a consortium put together by the former deputy chairman Allan Leighton, there are no offers on the table. Yesterday the Professional Footballers' Association heaped more bad news on the club when it insisted that it would not be willing to pay the players' wages should Leeds go into administration, as seems increasingly likely. Leeds's chief executive Trevor Birch wanted the players to accept a wage deferral of 15%-30% until the end of the season to raise the £5m required to see the club through until May. But the players have so far refused to countenance making the first move in accepting a deferral, sparking a furious reaction from fans who accused them of being "greedy and selfish". That leaves the club, who are £82m in debt, with only the option of selling players such as the £3m-rated striker Alan Smith. A rumoured bid from the Bahrainian Sheikh Abdulrah man Bin Mubarak Al-Khalifa has been described as "naive" and he has yet to produce any evidence that he has the funds required. "We will not offer financial support to a club like Leeds because the debts are so great," said the PFA deputy chief executive Mick McGuire. "There is no provision [for wage loans to Leeds]. The fact is it's not our money to give out, it's our members' money. Even if we had £1m to give we'd need to ensure we could get it back. Obviously giving over £50,000 over a month to help a club we can do but this is very different." John Boocock, chairman of the Leeds United Supporters' Trust, responded to the players' reluctance to respond to Birch's plea by saying: "They are very selfish, very stupid, very badly advised - or all three. If they are supposed to be a team and to be united then this does not show it, and as far as I'm concerned they have missed an opportunity here. "They have shot themselves in the foot and now the fans are really brassed off. No one can condone what they have done, especially when you consider the season we have so far had to endure and the support we have given them." Weekly wages: Paul Robinson £25,000 Gary Kelly £24,000 Lucas Radebe £25,000 Michael Duberry £22,000 Ian Harte £24,000 Eirik Bakke £20,000 Dominic Matteo £28,000 Seth Johnson £37,000 Nick Barmby £30,000 Mark Viduka £50,000 Alan Smith £30,000 Subs: Jody Morris £15,000 James Milner £5,000 Michael Bridges £18,000 Matthew Kilgallon £4,000 Scott Carson (gk) £4,000 Leeds are also paying £10,000 a week each towards the wages of Robbie Fowler and Danny Mills · You've read the piece, now have your say. Email your comments to football.editor@guardianunlimited.co.uk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Maybe the "2nd wave" of money troubles is coming - Clubs like Cardiff and Reading that have carried on spending while everyone else has cut back. Mr Hamman never seemed to spend vast amounts of money in his final few years at Wimbledon, so maybe the pot has run slightly dry. From a bristol City point of view a Cardiff meltdown would not only help us on a regional level if we were to reach "higher levels" like the Premiership gravey train, but also in recruiting the cream of regional youth talent. As much as I hate to say it it would also benefit us if Saints lost their pulling power in terms of young players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigdave60 Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 In todays Daily Mail there is a report on the situation at Cardiff City:- CARDIFF CITY have slipped into financial trouble and may be forced to sell off prime playing assets Robert Earnshaw and Danny Gabbidon. According to a source within the First Division club, Cardiff are £24million in debt.They are also understood to have been told to stop spending by their bankers, leading at least one director to question the cash management of owner Sam Hammam and chief executive David Temme. Cash is so tight that bankers are believed to be blocking a £150,000 bid for York City midfilder Lee Bullock. Last month Cardiff failed to find the funds to turn Julian Grays loan into a permanent move from Crystal Palace. Wales stars Earnshaw and Gabbidon have been monitored by Premiership clubs this season, and Fulham boss Chris Coleman is a known admirer of Earnshaw. Hammam has insisted that neither will be sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 CARDIFF CITY have slipped into financial trouble and may be forced to sell off prime playing assets Robert Earnshaw and Danny Gabbidon. Oh what a shame. They are also understood to have been told to stop spending by their bankers, leading at least one director to question the cash management of owner Sam Hammam and chief executive David Temme. How many times has it been said on here, have Cardiff been talked about in the same way as Wimbledon. Sam The Sham ####ped on the Don's, and he'll do the same again. I give him until the end of the season. Now, are there any BCFC supporters on here that said that what we needed is someone like this idiot? Do you still think that? Wimbledon, and now Cardiff. If any other club takes Hamman on, then serious questions need to be asked by that clubs supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bcfccider Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Fortunately BCFC rejected his approaches! We were also Fayed's second choice after Fulham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Sellin` Sheep young un! Ha-Ha! love the picture cider gliders it serves then taffs right being in debt and being too cocky.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrobin108 Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 This means that bardiff will not get their hands on Danny Coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 I am absolutely delighted that clubs who spent stupidly are now in severe financial trouble. I also think it needs on eor two to go to the wall to convince even te most brain-dead that the gravy train is over. Leeds players are arrogant, selfish, greedy and self-centred and I hope all of them end up having to take pay cuts. The stark fact is that some of them may well end up having no career as no team will want to take on their wages, bearing in mind that more and more clubs are finding things tighter and tighter. Either they take pay cuts or end up unemployed. Then we'll read it in the papers how bad times have got for them since they were made redundant. Oh what a shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WillsbridgeRed Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 "Now, are there any BCFC supporters on here that said that what we needed is someone like this idiot? Do you still think that?" I hold my hands up and will say during a depressing period earlier this season I did say I wished he was here now. I have since changed my opinion of our current directors and hang my head in shame when I think I actually wanted that muppet here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fct Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Willsbridge, that was brave of you to say so and I shake thy 'and me babber. I never liked Hamman, he looks as shifty as someone mentioned by Kilroy-Silk (oops help here comes the PC brigade to censor me!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 I reckon there will be a few more clubs in trouble. This is why the current board should be praised for their prudence as apart from the super clubs, the playing field is at last beocming more level. What's the news about Reading? No more offers on Leeds table Owen Gibson Thursday January 22, 2004 The Guardian Leeds United are fast running out of financial options after it emerged there was no chance of an external investor rescuing the club before Monday's deadline for raising fresh funds. With creditors having already knocked back a £5m offer from a consortium put together by the former deputy chairman Allan Leighton, there are no offers on the table. Yesterday the Professional Footballers' Association heaped more bad news on the club when it insisted that it would not be willing to pay the players' wages should Leeds go into administration, as seems increasingly likely. Leeds's chief executive Trevor Birch wanted the players to accept a wage deferral of 15%-30% until the end of the season to raise the £5m required to see the club through until May. But the players have so far refused to countenance making the first move in accepting a deferral, sparking a furious reaction from fans who accused them of being "greedy and selfish". That leaves the club, who are £82m in debt, with only the option of selling players such as the £3m-rated striker Alan Smith. A rumoured bid from the Bahrainian Sheikh Abdulrah man Bin Mubarak Al-Khalifa has been described as "naive" and he has yet to produce any evidence that he has the funds required. "We will not offer financial support to a club like Leeds because the debts are so great," said the PFA deputy chief executive Mick McGuire. "There is no provision [for wage loans to Leeds]. The fact is it's not our money to give out, it's our members' money. Even if we had £1m to give we'd need to ensure we could get it back. Obviously giving over £50,000 over a month to help a club we can do but this is very different." John Boocock, chairman of the Leeds United Supporters' Trust, responded to the players' reluctance to respond to Birch's plea by saying: "They are very selfish, very stupid, very badly advised - or all three. If they are supposed to be a team and to be united then this does not show it, and as far as I'm concerned they have missed an opportunity here. "They have shot themselves in the foot and now the fans are really brassed off. No one can condone what they have done, especially when you consider the season we have so far had to endure and the support we have given them." Weekly wages: Paul Robinson £25,000 Gary Kelly £24,000 Lucas Radebe £25,000 Michael Duberry £22,000 Ian Harte £24,000 Eirik Bakke £20,000 Dominic Matteo £28,000 Seth Johnson £37,000 Nick Barmby £30,000 Mark Viduka £50,000 Alan Smith £30,000 Subs: Jody Morris £15,000 James Milner £5,000 Michael Bridges £18,000 Matthew Kilgallon £4,000 Scott Carson (gk) £4,000 Leeds are also paying £10,000 a week each towards the wages of Robbie Fowler and Danny Mills · You've read the piece, now have your say. Email your comments to football.editor@guardianunlimited.co.uk. perish the thought of greedy players taking an element of blame eh?? a temporary cut, and they still wont do it. When reality dawns on the overpaid prima donnas a lot of Leeds kids will be out on their ear, not that they care. Ans save me from the waffle about short career etc, been made redundant, nearly lost your house, no didnt think so!! These greedy players along with equally greedy agents, and boards will kill our national game There for the grace of God.. the Ashton 8 should really be given more credit for saving us, when they sacrificed themselves, and thank god for the likes of Tinman-one in a million amongst the mercenaries. Wonder how many of our lot would give up any pay to save us? to the Ashton 8, Thanks again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 "Now, are there any BCFC supporters on here that said that what we needed is someone like this idiot? Do you still think that?" I hold my hands up and will say during a depressing period earlier this season I did say I wished he was here now. I have since changed my opinion of our current directors and hang my head in shame when I think I actually wanted that muppet here Fair enough. I wasn't expecting anybody to admit to that actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 I wouldn't go as far to say I'm delighted Cardiff are looking at a £24 million debt, but lots of people on this forum were rightly dubious about Shamman spending on the never never, how the Cardiff fans took great joy in telling us how Shamman was going to spend 10 million on players in the summer, bet they are feeling quite worrried now hearing this, he will walk away and leave them in the ###### when the club fails to go up after a couple of attempts, they have a £24 million debt just getting up to the first division, god help them if he does get them to the premier league, Leeds debt will look like chicken feed! Does anyone know who is funding their new stadium?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Exile Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Now I might make myself unpopular for this - but I have real sympathy with Cardiff fans on this one, if large chuncks of it turn out to be true. Yes, OK, we are no great lovers of Cardiff. However, the bedrock of any football club is its fan base, who support a club through thick and thin. It is entirely wrong that football administration in this country allows all these years of emotional commitment by real fans to be put at risk by mismanagement by one or two people in a short period of time. This applies to Cardiff, Leeds, and indeed any other club that finds itself in this position. I do understand the reaction of some that say let these clubs stew in their own juices, and if one went out of business, it would be a good thing. I do however strongly disagree. People's ego's should simply not be allowed to put fans football clubs on the line in this way - yes even if they are bluebirds. For goodness sake, there are lots of regulated industries in this country. A nutter Chief Exec of a bank simply can not go and make certain decisions that puts all his customers deposits at risk (or at least should not be able to...). Ok, in football clubs, fans involvement is an emotional deposit, but to me the principle is the same. Our football administrators simply fail time and time again to ensure a level playing field. Point 1. Point 2 - it is simply cheating as far as I am concerned to invest money in your club that you do not have. Another word for it could be stealing. Stealing money from others that will not be repaid - and also stealing other peoples chances. Forgive me if I am wrong, but who did we lose to in the play offs last year!!!!! Our chances in this were diminished by a team possibly playing players they could not afford, and had no right to have. In fairness to Cardiff, if this article is untrue, there are certainly other clubs had to face this. I feel all football fans should be very angry about this! Not with other clubs that other fans support, but the lunatics who are allowed to be in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Port Said Red Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Now I might make myself unpopular for this - but I have real sympathy with Cardiff fans on this one, if large chuncks of it turn out to be true. Yes, OK, we are no great lovers of Cardiff. However, the bedrock of any football club is its fan base, who support a club through thick and thin. It is entirely wrong that football administration in this country allows all these years of emotional commitment by real fans to be put at risk by mismanagement by one or two people in a short period of time. This applies to Cardiff, Leeds, and indeed any other club that finds itself in this position. I do understand the reaction of some that say let these clubs stew in their own juices, and if one went out of business, it would be a good thing. I do however strongly disagree. People's ego's should simply not be allowed to put fans football clubs on the line in this way - yes even if they are bluebirds. For goodness sake, there are lots of regulated industries in this country. A nutter Chief Exec of a bank simply can not go and make certain decisions that puts all his customers deposits at risk (or at least should not be able to...). Ok, in football clubs, fans involvement is an emotional deposit, but to me the principle is the same. Our football administrators simply fail time and time again to ensure a level playing field. Point 1. Point 2 - it is simply cheating as far as I am concerned to invest money in your club that you do not have. Another word for it could be stealing. Stealing money from others that will not be repaid - and also stealing other peoples chances. Forgive me if I am wrong, but who did we lose to in the play offs last year!!!!! Our chances in this were diminished by a team possibly playing players they could not afford, and had no right to have. In fairness to Cardiff, if this article is untrue, there are certainly other clubs had to face this. I feel all football fans should be very angry about this! Not with other clubs that other fans support, but the lunatics who are allowed to be in charge. I would have agreed with this but for Screechs point about how they were lording it around about being the next big thing etc. Even Fulham fans are realistic enough to know that the Fayed bubbles likely to burst, when you deal with these people you ask them to keep their hands where you can see them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobby Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 One of the many things this whole issue shows us is that we are pretty lucky at BCFC to have a board of directors and chief executive who look after the money side of things in a sensible fashion. Year on year the Club debt has been reduced, the wage bill has been reduced and spending has been within defined limits. That puts BCFC in an excellent position to continue. With promotion to Div 1 at the end of this season, BCFC will be in an even better position to thrive. It may be frustrating on occasions to hear we can't afford this player or that player but I would rather that than we were experiencing the financial meltdown of certain other clubs. So a vote of thanks to the chairman, directors and chief exec at Bristol City and long may it continue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totterdown Tom Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 I understand the point about Fans being the losers when a club's finances go belly up but I still find it difficult to have sympathy with Cardiff. In the mid 90's, Cardiff were owned by the Kumar brothers who announced that the club needed gates of above 5,000 to break even. It shows that Cardiff have lacked a real loyalty from their fans when the going got tough unlike, say Liverpool, whose attendances actually increased during the relatively dark days of Souness in the early 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoke_Gifford_Red Posted January 22, 2004 Report Share Posted January 22, 2004 Maybe we should have sold Danny Coles to them in the summer and when they needed the money we could have bought him back at half the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Lets hear it for our board, cos they have got the right approch financially, and although I've been frustrated (among many others) at the lack of money for signings, in todays climate they are right, and it makes the managers (it should at least) think very hard before they sign anyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rule The Waves Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 How did Hamman make his money? I think I'm right in saying that he is a friend of the Sultan of Brunei's and made is money from pretty much the same place as the Sultan, except he didn't make as much of it, through being a property and oil tycoon. With regards to how much he has left, he is still a very wealthy man, much wealthier than probably our whole board put together put to put it one way, he's got a few screws loose. I'm only guessing but I would say that the money that "he" has been spending on wages and transfers for players has probably not all, if at all for that matter, been coming out of his own pocket like we all think it has but has probably been signed off by the Club on Hamann's behalf, hence the £24million debt. If Cardiff do not go up to the Prem this season or next, I would not be at all surprised to see Hamann walk and leave them with this debt, and we all not the state Wimbledon were in when he left them don't we? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Now I might make myself unpopular for this - but I have real sympathy with Cardiff fans on this one, if large chuncks of it turn out to be true. Yes, OK, we are no great lovers of Cardiff. However, the bedrock of any football club is its fan base, who support a club through thick and thin. It is entirely wrong that football administration in this country allows all these years of emotional commitment by real fans to be put at risk by mismanagement by one or two people in a short period of time. This applies to Cardiff, Leeds, and indeed any other club that finds itself in this position. I do understand the reaction of some that say let these clubs stew in their own juices, and if one went out of business, it would be a good thing. I do however strongly disagree. People's ego's should simply not be allowed to put fans football clubs on the line in this way - yes even if they are bluebirds. For goodness sake, there are lots of regulated industries in this country. A nutter Chief Exec of a bank simply can not go and make certain decisions that puts all his customers deposits at risk (or at least should not be able to...). Ok, in football clubs, fans involvement is an emotional deposit, but to me the principle is the same. Our football administrators simply fail time and time again to ensure a level playing field. Point 1. Point 2 - it is simply cheating as far as I am concerned to invest money in your club that you do not have. Another word for it could be stealing. Stealing money from others that will not be repaid - and also stealing other peoples chances. Forgive me if I am wrong, but who did we lose to in the play offs last year!!!!! Our chances in this were diminished by a team possibly playing players they could not afford, and had no right to have. In fairness to Cardiff, if this article is untrue, there are certainly other clubs had to face this. I feel all football fans should be very angry about this! Not with other clubs that other fans support, but the lunatics who are allowed to be in charge. I agree with that to an extent. I Feel extreemly sorry for the 4,000 or so hard core that did follow Cardiff through thick and thin, but as for the rest of them, i couldn't give a toss really. Leeds players are so unbelievably stupid, there are 3 players at Leeds that would get similar wages somewher else, Viduka (mabye), Smith and Robinson, the rest of them there is no way they would get anywhere near what they are getting now, so a tempoary wage reduction would be in their interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibby Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 The further they are away from the Premiership the better! I hope they sell players and I hope they get relegated! My post may be a bit controversial but I hate the way the Welsh beat an English team to promotion. Its the English Nationwide Football League! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 The further they are away from the Premiership the better! I hope they sell players and I hope they get relegated! My post may be a bit controversial but I hate the way the Welsh beat an English team to promotion. Its the English Nationwide Football League! They may be welsh, but they have been in the english league for a long time and longer than a lot of other clubs. I don't know exactly when they were elected but it was the early 1900's i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted January 24, 2004 Report Share Posted January 24, 2004 Sellin` Sheep young un! Ha-Ha! :Hmm, yeah that's really funny Tarquin.: .....another lovely piccie from cider gliders. I haven't seen a Sukuki ER series bike for about 10 years. A lovely machine but a damn nuisance having to decoke that 2 stroke engine. With regard to debts at Cardiff and Leeds this is the beginning of a big asset crash in football and house prices etc in my opinion. Leeds have got some fantastic players going for a fraction of their value last year. Wish we could afford some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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