What We Need Is Change

[Bristol Boy]

After watching the last ten or so seasons, I've come to a conclusion.

It's not change or indeed, the famed "stability" that's the problem, although, I must say that looking back at DW's tenure, we did progress in terms of our position in the League Table (9,7,3,3) and his fate was sealed with one or two awful selection decisions at Cardiff, followed by a daft comment and the wrong attitude afterwards.

Rumours persist that Tins stabbed him in the back and that, no doubt, will have got back to our prospective managers.

That's not to say we played great football under DW, at all times or, in the last season, much at all, but even I, as a stern DW critic, have to admit that.

Tins can be summed up as a fine player and a poor manager.Simple as that really and I hope he comes back and does well elsewhere.Millen must share the blame and leave as well.

Back to my original point which is that Tins changed loads of things by shipping 40 players in and out and it's not what you sell it's what you're left with that counts.LL's departure was sad but inevitable these days and the 40% sell on when he leaves Reading for between £3-6m will come in handy

whilst I fully supported the departure of Doherty & Coles, neither of whom is setting the world alight elsewhere, I'm really unsure of the quality that we've got left.

There is also a big question about their heart as well and that's what's needed at this end of the table as much as anything.

When the chips are down, will this bunch of players respond

Stability's all well and good providing there's progress and stability doesn't become stagnation.

Change is fine, providing it's for the better and that can be seen.

I'm a fan of the beautiful game and Brian Clough was my idol...........and I don't idolise many!

However, I don't care how we get out of this division and if it's no midfield, long balls throws and set pieces, with Julian Allsop, Clive Platt & Leo Fortune West up front, then that's fine by me...........if it works!

The new manager will want to put his mark on the club, bring in his own assistant and his own type of players.

Fine, again, but he'll need to ship out some of the players we have in order to keep within a budget.

I'll start the ball rolling by saying that I'd list Murray,Fortune, Gillespie & Carey tomorrow and have a long chat with Bridges & Stewart.

Both seem motivated and Stewart is probably working as hard as he's ever done but, let's face it, do they look full of goals to you?

To me, they look slow, which surprises me.

Are they what's needed to get out of League One because until we do that, what level the players can play up to is irrelevant.

Whilst it would be lovely to see a passing game, at pace, with wide players and shots coming in from everywhere-goals galore, I fear that we are in for a dose of grim reality and, let's face it, we'd all settle for BOOT IT, if it means sixth place and a chance in the play offs......wouldn't we?

[CodeRed]

Agree that some of the players need to move on but, who is going to want Murray,Carey,Fortune, the way they are playing? More importantly these players are in the comfort zone and clearly are intending to see out their careers here (left us once - didn't like it - and soon came back to the Mother Hen!) and even if -say - a league 2 side wanted them those players are on very good money and will simply sit out their contracts rather than move down onto a lesser wage (unless we pay them off as we did with Dinning).

I know its not popular and I'll stand by for loads of abuse but I agree that so far Stewart and Bridges havn't worked.

I know Marcus is working very hard and has a great touch - but - at this level it's just not happening for him. I don't know why - it just seems at this level you MUST be very physical to play up front. Look how players like Platt and Akinfenwa and Fortune-West have turned us over? They are nowhere near Marcus's ability but in League One they are effective. We laughed when Reading offered us the Goat back as part of the Lita deal but I think it's 5 goals now for Southend isn't it?

Everybody is now agreeing that Brooker is our best/most effective striker but in pre season all that posts on striker selection had Bridges and Stewart as most peoples first choice with Brooks on the bench. Bit different now though.

With Bridges it's more clear cut - he's not fit enough and the very long layoffs have clearly taken their toll, IMO it will take him a season to get back to his best form and we havn't got that long. We needed to replace Lita's goals and Tinnion said he signed Bridges to do that and it's just not working.

[tompo]

Agree about shipping out some of the dead wood but how feasible is it with the transfer window being closed.

Best bet may be to get players out on loan but I doubt if we would be able to sell anyone until January. The other more expensive option is to tear contracts up but I'm not sure how we could do that unless there has been gross misconduct (the reason Proudlock had his contract terminated at Wednesday).

Unfortunately I don't think the reason for temination "because a player is not playing very well" would hold up at a tribunal.

[Portland Bill]

Stewart is making the runs, hes getting in the space and into goalscoring positions BUT....... hes getting no service from the midfield. We havent got anyone with VISION who can pick a pass.

Untill we get a midfield player who is able to look forward rather than square we are going to struggle.

[Red Cloud]

def ship out Murray,Fortune & Carey but not Gillespie!

[Jay]

There's a number of valid points on this thread.

Personally, after the Swansea match, I wouldn't play Fortune again unless we had no other option. I thought that defenders were supposed to tackle & defend? Carey disappointed me on Saturday. Maybe Millen had told him not to hoof the ball up the field each time possession fell to him, but all that did was prove him to be a one trick pony. Long gone are the days when he'd work with Murray, tearing up the right wing together. On Saturday, all he did was hold on to the ballfor way to long/ Any players that had started to make a run or get in to a good position were caught off-side or marked by the time he'd made his mind up.

As for Stewart & Bridges, to my understanding they were employed as strikers. However, although they aren't proving to be out-and-out strikers, they are providing useful and mentors in other areas. Stewart is working hard to support the midfield (mainly due to the weakness we have there) and holds the ball well. Bridges is looking hot in the 'hole' behind the front two. I disagree with an earlier comment that he looks slow. His work rate is also commendable.

SUrely any manager we appoint will realise that one of our main problems is that we have boys trying to do mens' jobs (Cotterill, Skuse etc - all work hard but are young & inexperienced) and that most of those with 'experience' (Carey, Murray etc) fail to lead by example. IMO we need somebody with no connections to this club. Someone who will judge each player fairly, not have favourites/mates and remove those that aren't pulling their weight & earning their shirt.

Expectation at this club is high. We can only hope that SL makes it extremely clear to any potential candidate that this is the case. The pressure is on from the moment they click the pen to sign on the line.

Let's hope the SL & co. make the right decision

[rednotblue]

Whilst it would be lovely to see a passing game, at pace, with wide players and shots coming in from everywhere-goals galore, I fear that we are in for a dose of grim reality and, let's face it, we'd all settle for BOOT IT, if it means sixth place and a chance in the play offs......wouldn't we?

We didn't play the best football under Wilson but we won games. The result? Wilson plays rubbish football etc etc. Sack Wilson.

I don't mind the direct game like Bolton or Chelsea play in that they aim to play the ball as quickly to the targetman or get balls and players early in to the box.

I DON'T WANT to watch it where we are just kicking it aimlessley time after time.

And yes I would sacrifice promotion for a style of football. Call me fickle or stupid but I will stick to my foobtalling principles.

[Bristol Boy]

I know its not popular and I'll stand by for loads of abuse but I agree that so far Stewart and Bridges havn't worked.

Not popular.True and you won't get much stick because I've said it, I haven't

We laughed when Reading offered us the Goat back as part of the Lita deal but I think it's 5 goals now for Southend isn't it?

5 Games-5 Goals-That's more than Stewart, Bridges & Gillespie put together

Everybody is now agreeing that Brooker is our best/most effective striker but in pre season all that posts on striker selection had Bridges and Stewart as most peoples first choice with Brooks on the bench. Bit different now though.

Not for me, I never paired them once.You need a physical presence and someone who's proven in this Division-BROOKER!

With Bridges it's more clear cut - he's not fit enough and the very long layoffs have clearly taken their toll, IMO it will take him a season to get back to his best form and we havn't got that long. We needed to replace Lita's goals and Tinnion said he signed Bridges to do that and it's just not working.

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LL's goals and Tinnions passing

[Guest routabout]

Carey and with hindsight, Murray shouldn't have been brought back to the club. Both well past their best. Murray is completely ineffective nowadays and Carey is part of the core problem, possibly the core problem, with our overall game. I think both should be given their cards, by whoever comes in.

Gilly needs nurturing and we would do well to keep a hold of him and work with him. Marcus Stewart needs to sort himself out, get off the big-time-Charlie mission that he's on and start acting like a true professional and role model to the younger players.

Fortune needs releasing, as I don't think anybody is gullible enough to pay us for him now. Whoever goes out, they need to be replaced by players with either some genuine passion and pride in them, or have a point to prove.

Fawthrop should be removed from the club at the earliest opportunity and the longer he stays, the more suspicious I am of the situation. He's not giving this club anything special, yet he seems almost 'untouchable'. Does he hold the keys to any cupboards holding skeletons?

Other than the above, everything's hunkey-dorey.

[Bristol Boy]

There's a number of valid points on this thread.

Thanks :D 

As for Stewart & Bridges, to my understanding they were employed as strikers. However, although they aren't proving to be out-and-out strikers,

in the sense that they score goals, for example

they are providing useful and mentors in other areas.

This is League One football, mate.Not some Amercan style, birth class

Stewart is working hard to support the midfield (mainly due to the weakness we have there) and holds the ball well. Bridges is looking hot in the 'hole' behind the front two. I disagree with an earlier comment that he looks slow. His work rate is also commendable.

So when was the last time that Bridges started in the hole? Try never.I agree he can play there and I've been telling everyone that since before the season started.In fact, the only way you'll get them in the same XI is with one in the hole and one alongside Brooker

SUrely any manager we appoint will realise that one of our main problems is that we have boys trying to do mens' jobs (Cotterill, Skuse etc - all work hard but are young & inexperienced) and that most of those with 'experience' (Carey, Murray etc) fail to lead by example.

So a combination of experience and no experience doesn't work at all

IMO we need somebody with no connections to this club. Someone who will judge each player fairly, not have favourites/mates and remove those that aren't pulling their weight & earning their shirt.

Expectation at this club is high. We can only hope that SL makes it extremely clear to any potential candidate that this is the case. The pressure is on from the moment they click the pen to sign on the line.

Let's hope the SL & co. make the right decision 

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Agree with the last two points.

New managers must know that the club didn't start the day they walked in.

[Portland Bill]

Carey and with hindsight, Murray shouldn't have been brought back to the club. Both well past their best. Murray is completely ineffective nowadays and Carey is part of the core problem, possibly the core problem, with our overall game. I think both should be given their cards, by whoever comes in.

Gilly needs nurturing and we would do well to keep a hold of him and work with him. Marcus Stewart needs to sort himself out, get off the big-time-Charlie mission that he's on and start acting like a true professional and role model to the younger players.

Fortune needs releasing, as I don't think anybody is gullible enough to pay us for him now. Whoever goes out, they need to be replaced by players with either some genuine passion and pride in them, or have a point to prove.

Fawthrop should be removed from the club at the earliest opportunity and the longer he stays, the more suspicious I am of the situation. He's not giving this club anything special, yet he seems almost 'untouchable'. Does he hold the keys to any cupboards holding skeletons?

Other than the above, everything's hunkey-dorey.

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You say M Stewart is acting the big time charlie i totaly disagree. For example on saturday i don't think anyone put the WORKRATE in that he did. He did what hes done at other clubs for years ( made space etc) but we HAVENT got the players that are good/alert enough to give him the service he craves.

[Guest routabout]

You say M Stewart is acting the big time charlie   i totaly disagree. For example on saturday i don't think anyone put the WORKRATE in that he did. He did what hes done at other clubs for years ( made space etc) but we HAVENT got the players that are good/alert enough to give him the service he craves.

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No sorry, I was in fact referring to his off the field antics. Whilst I don't deny him a life outside of the club, I don't think he's providing a very good example to our younger players. After reading the posts, I took a trip to the Essex and wasn't too impressed with what I saw through the window. I haven't come on here shouting about it, like some others, because it doesn't really help the club at all.

Go ahead, shoot away at me.

[Bristol Boy]

We didn't play the best football under Wilson but we won games. The result? Wilson plays rubbish football etc etc. Sack Wilson.

Nothing to do with his style of football.Like I said.Read the Post.He was sacked for the reasons I've stated and because he spent £2m, including bringing Murray back, had 4 seasons and we were still in the same Division

I don't mind the direct game like Bolton or Chelsea play in that they aim to play the ball as quickly to the targetman or get balls and players early in to the box.

I DON'T WANT to watch it where we are just kicking it aimlessley time after time.

Read The Post.If it works

And yes I would sacrifice promotion for a style of football. Call me fickle or stupid but I will stick to my foobtalling principles.

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And that may mean sticking with this Division and I don't want to do that.

[Portland Bill]

No sorry, I was in fact referring to his off the field antics. Whilst I don't deny him a life outside of the club, I don't think he's providing a very good example to our younger players. After reading the posts, I took a trip to the Essex and wasn't too impressed with what I saw through the window. I haven't come on here shouting about it, like some others, because it doesn't really help the club at all.

Go ahead, shoot away at me.

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Not living in Bristol i am not aware of what hes getting up to off the pitch ???

Can you say it on here ?

[Bristol Boy]

You say M Stewart is acting the big time charlie   i totaly disagree. For example on saturday i don't think anyone put the WORKRATE in that he did. He did what hes done at other clubs for years ( made space etc) but we HAVENT got the players that are good/alert enough to give him the service he craves.

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I noticed he couldn't outpace Tony Butler, either and his shot from the edge of the box when Cotterill set him up and Smith was in acres of space to his left

[Guest routabout]

Not living in Bristol i am not aware of what hes getting up to off the pitch ???

Can you say it on here ?

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Well apparently, his mate owns the Essex and some people were saying that he's often in there, in some pretty sorry states. Rather than just argue with them, I thought I'd see for myself and me and a mate of mine nipped over for a nose. I felt pretty gutted to be honest, I was hoping that I would be able to stand up for Marcus and say that it's all BS.

[tompo]

Carey and with hindsight, Murray shouldn't have been brought back to the club. Both well past their best. Murray is completely ineffective nowadays and Carey is part of the core problem, possibly the core problem, with our overall game. I think both should be given their cards, by whoever comes in.

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Lets be honest we wanted Murray back. In fact from the time he went we were crying out for him to come back and what was the reaction when he joined on deadline day? The vast majority of fans were ecstatic.

The Scott Murray saga is a perfect example of why I hope SL does not pay too much attention to the fans when it comes to picking the next manager. It goes to

prove that us fans may not be the best people to judge.

[Guest Frank]

No sorry, I was in fact referring to his off the field antics. Whilst I don't deny him a life outside of the club, I don't think he's providing a very good example to our younger players. After reading the posts, I took a trip to the Essex and wasn't too impressed with what I saw through the window. I haven't come on here shouting about it, like some others, because it doesn't really help the club at all.

Go ahead, shoot away at me.

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So why have you decided to shout about it now?

[rednotblue]

We didn't play the best football under Wilson but we won games. The result? Wilson plays rubbish football etc etc. Sack Wilson.

Nothing to do with his style of football.Like I said.Read the Post.He was sacked for the reasons I've stated and because he spent £2m, including bringing Murray back, had 4 seasons and we were still in the same Division

I don't mind the direct game like Bolton or Chelsea play in that they aim to play the ball as quickly to the targetman or get balls and players early in to the box.

I DON'T WANT to watch it where we are just kicking it aimlessley time after time.

Read The Post.If it works

And yes I would sacrifice promotion for a style of football. Call me fickle or stupid but I will stick to my foobtalling principles.

I did Read the Post but thanks for pointing it out twice. I wasn't stating why Wilson was sacked so unsure why you've mentiuoned that.

My point was, under Wilson we played some half decent football at times and other times it was hoof it long. Wilson was criticised by fans throughout his time with Bristol City for his style of football despite the fact he was winning games.

So if a new manager comes in and nearly gets us promotion and plays hoof it football we are going to criticise him, but if he gets us promotion it will be big smiles all round?

Hopefully you can see my point and read my post.

[mozo]

I'd like to encourage such gossip 'cos I don't know any of it. I still don't know about this Lita fight, or about Murray, Carey and until now Stewart's drinking antics. I'm intrigued...

[Nibor]

I'd get shot of Carey, Murray, possibly Orr unless he consistently plays well at RB, Jamie Smith, Woodman and Fortune unless he has a massive attitude adjustment.

We need two wingers and a playmaker (which might be Grant Smith in the centre), and a left back.

I don't think we have any problem with Stewart or Bridges other than their frustration about not getting any service. I still have no doubt that if the midfield were able to create chances either of these two would score a lot of goals in this league.

The problem is that we can't do any of this type of thing for a good few months yet.

Nibor