Bargain Buys! Have We Ever Made Made Any (in Recent Times!)

[yeovilred]

Although he wasn't that great, didn't we double our money on Liam Robinson after 1 year (and 4 goals).

The same applies to Ralph Milne - couldn't stop laughing for a week when Man U bought him

[DOLMANDAN]

Andy Cole

[Drew Peacock]

I suspect the best bargain buys we made were a job lot of out of date drinks and some stale pies.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Sorry if I seem pedantic, but I was convinced that Rodgers and Hunter was the main central defensive pairing for the 1978/9 season. Sad as I may seem, I checked out the WBA programe of that season with 3 league games left. The Rodgers/Hunter partnership was ever present up until 1st Jan when Hunter missed one game and Collier made his 1st appearance of the season. The partnership was only broken for a handful of games and Rodgers only missed 2 games all season.

Collier only played another 4 games that season, which was the reason he eventually went to Coventry under the new contract rules. Merrick was injured all season, not that he would have played if he had been fit - Merrick was shown to be totally out of his depth in the top flight, which was why Hunter was brought in in the first place.

As for Collier, great prospect that he was when he first appeared in the mid 70s, he also struggled to make any real impact at this level. While the general concensus was that Collier was a better footballer than Rodgers, Alan Dicks justifably stuck with Rodgers alongside Hunter and the results and league table show that he was right to do so.

That season saw City finish 13th in what is now the premiership, their highest finish in modern times, and the league table in my programme shows that after 36 games City, in 11th place had conceded 44 goals. Man U were 10th having only played 31 games but conceding 52 goals. Compare this with Chelsea who had conceded 74 goals in 34 games and were relegated that season! Whatever happened to them. The Rodgers/Hunter partership saw a few decent results, notablya 3-1 win at Old Trafford, a 1-0 win at home to Liverpool, a 5-0 win at home to Coventry. And they notched up a 3-1 win at home to Chelsea, with David Rodgers popping up to score his 6th goal of the season.

This is why I mentioned the partnership. I'm sure that most people that were around and going to the games at the time obviously remember "bites yer legs Hunter", but tend to forget the contribution of the whole-hearted, if somewhat ungainly, big, old fashioned Centre-half. David Rodgers, we salute you!

Interesting post, Dazzler.

So Rodgers appeared in far more games than Collier in 78/79 - was Collier injured?

Which of them played the majority of games in 76/77 and 77/78? Any idea? What were the total appearances of each of Merrick, Collier, Rodgers and Hunter for the 4 year First Division stay? I had the feeling Collier hadn't featured as consistently in the First as his reputation suggests so his total would be particularly interesting, though sarasin and the profiles in the City 100 Years book have persuaded me that i was probably wrong. Please find out if you can and i'll do some research too.

I completely disagree that Sir Geoffrey was out of his depth - he was pushed to full back to accomodate Norman and replace Speedy Drysdale. We signed Norman not to replace Geoff Merrick but as a bolstering experienced talisman who happened to play in his position. Dicks could get him, so he did, but great signing that he was it was incredibly disloyal to Merrick.

As for Rodgers he was indeed a wholehearted, extremely ungainly stopper, towering in the air but very limited skill wise. I seem to remember nippy forwards like Gary Shaw ripping him to threads.

For all his undoubted effort it defies belief that you can praise him so strongly and at the same time criticise Sir Geoffrey Merrick who, as Captain of our great promotion winning team, must rank alongside our all too few all time greats.

Merrick was definitely First Division class as witnessed at Arsenal on the opening day and also by the fact that he (and Tom Ritchie) turned down Arsenal as we neared promotion.

If he hadn't been a lifelong City fan he could no doubt have asked for a transfer when Norman arrived and had a very successful and lucrative career elsewhere in the top flight.

[Nogbad the Bad]

To answer my own questions:

76-77 Collier 42

Hunter 31

Merrick 39

Rodgers 1

77-78 Collier 27

Hunter 38

Merrick 37

Rodgers 15

78-79 Collier 9

Hunter 39

Merrick 0

Rodgers 36

79-80 Collier 0

Hunter 0

Merrick 39

Rodgers 26

Total First Division Apps. over the 4 seasons:

Collier 78

Hunter 108

Merrick 115

Rodgers 78

Rodgers only had a near full season with Hunter in 78-79 when Merrick missed the whole season through injury, and Collier was hardly playing due to reasons unknown. He was also a regular in 79-80, but didn't feature in 16 games.

Collier and Hunter only featured in 3 of the 4 seasons as both left the Club prior to our relegation season. Merrick, as already stated missed a whole season through injury.

Rodgers, therefore, was the only one of the four to be available for selection for the majority of the full total of 168 matches, but still only played the same number as Collier, 78. He appears to have been a filler in for most of the time who kept his place for a couple of long stretches due to injuries and, it must be said, some very solid form. Rodgers apparently hadn't featured at all in the promotion season despite already being at the club for 5 seasons and starting 26 games in 73-74.

Collier only had one full season, the first one, and went on to make 36 apps. out of a possible 84 in the following two.

Hunter missed very few games in the near 3 seasons he played for us.

Of the four, Geoff Merrick still managed to make the most appearances overall, and was evidently deemed undroppable when fit. Surely not out of his depth then.

Any idea who co-partnered Merrick in 79-80, after Collier and Hunter had gone and Rodgers played less than two thirds? It wasn't Julian Marshall who only commenced his 29 total appearances in 80-81.

[bartolona]

Steve Brooker priceless! Unless Reading offer a million.

[mikegarland]

Our best bargain buy was easily Lee Peacock for 600,000, or maybe tony thorpe

[Old Dazzler]

To answer my own questions:

76-77 Collier 42

Hunter 31

Merrick 39

Rodgers 1

77-78 Collier 27

Hunter 38

Merrick 37

Rodgers 15

78-79 Collier 9

Hunter 39

Merrick 0

Rodgers 36

79-80 Collier 0

Hunter 0

Merrick 39

Rodgers 26

Total First Division Apps. over the 4 seasons:

Collier 78

Hunter 108

Merrick 115

Rodgers 78

Rodgers only had a near full season with Hunter in 78-79 when Merrick missed the whole season through injury, and Collier was hardly playing due to reasons unknown. He was also a regular in 79-80, but didn't feature in 16 games.

Collier and Hunter only featured in 3 of the 4 seasons as both left the Club prior to our relegation season. Merrick, as already stated missed a whole season through injury.

Rodgers, therefore, was the only one of the four to be available for selection for the majority of the full total of 168 matches, but still only played the same number as Collier, 78. He appears to have been a filler in for most of the time who kept his place for a couple of long stretches due to injuries and, it must be said, some very solid form. Rodgers apparently hadn't featured at all in the promotion season despite already being at the club for 5 seasons and starting 26 games in 73-74.

Collier only had one full season, the first one, and went on to make 36 apps. out of a possible 84 in the following two.

Hunter missed very few games in the near 3 seasons he played for us.

Of the four, Geoff Merrick still managed to make the most appearances overall, and was evidently deemed undroppable when fit. Surely not out of his depth then.

Any idea who co-partnered Merrick in 79-80, after Collier and Hunter had gone and Rodgers played less than two thirds? It wasn't Julian Marshall who only commenced his 29 total appearances in 80-81.

Nogbad

Thanks for doing the research. I've been browsing through my old programmes for that era and I didn't realise that Geoff Merrick played so many games (virtually all at left back) in 77/78. I also noticed that Dave Rodgers had a knee operation in the first half of that season and Collier also had a knee op following an injury in the february when Rodgers stepped into the centre half role. How much of the 1978/9 season Collier missed due to injury or non-selection isn't clear from what I've read so far - its just that my memory of Collier's non-selection was that it was Alan Dicks preferred pairing during that season.

The point I was making (getting back to the origin of this thread) was that part of Hunter's quality was to be able to link up with a guy who was basically a big bad stopper and make the partnership work to good effect. In the 79/80 when the main partnership was Rodgers and Merrick we ended up relegated.

If I could elaborate a bit more on Geoff Merrick, on a forum where the word legend is bandied around quite freely, as Captain of the promotion winning side as well as being an exceptional central defender at "Championship" level, Merrick is right up there. But I still maintain that he did not cut the mustard in the top flight, but as he didn't play in his natural position for virtually three seasons, we will never really know.

Whereas players like Gow, Whitehead, Ritchie, Tainton, Sweeney, Mann and Gillies really kicked on and the likes of Hunter, Royle and Mabbutt added quality to the team, Geoff played about two thirds of his games at left back where he never really looked comfortable. He was still a good tackler and defensive header but his control and distribution going forward was often shocking, he used to receive the ball on the halfway line, stop and take three steps back and then run up to the ball and give it an almighty hoof - this was OK in our promotion year when Paul Cheesely used to win virtually everything that came anywhere near him in the air, but after his unfortunate injury we always lacked that sort of target man.

Anyway thats how I saw things - without a game to focus on this week its good to have a debate about those wonderful days - and I always remember, great days that they were, being City fans we always found something to moan about! Some things don't change.

In answer to the question about the other central defenders used that season, we had Peter Kenyon on loan but he only played a few games, Alan Hay (remember him?) had a few games mid-season as well as Clive Whitehead who played most of his games at left back that season! and the versatile Donnie Gillies and Gerry Sweeney wore the 5 shirt. Happy days!

[lotusman]

From a pure bargain standpoint Alan Walsh was "grand theft",seem to remember the fee was arrived at by a tribunal,one can only conclude that whoever they were that they had little knowledge of lower league players.Darlington were "mugged".

However, the tribunal system cetainly got its own back on us a few years later,albeit the Scottish one when Ian Baird joined us from Hearts.At around 200k he is in the good company of:Ray Atteveld,Tony Fitzpatrick,Terry Connor,& Steve Jones,sadly a waste of money.

Regarding the glory days to term Geoff Merrick "out of his depth" is in-correct,as a fullback he was adequate,but of course to the fans that knew him that was a far cry from his true capabilities as a central defensive player.In hindsight his career would have been better served leaving us and fulfilling his potential elsewhere,alas his was in many ways a personal sacrifice with no end reward.Many shrewd judges of ability though recognised his value,not least Arsenal,I also remember Tommy Docherty at Utd claiming the pairing of Merrick & Collier was as good as anything around.........if only they were around today!

[Guest 16Keane]

BRIAN TINNION, what a bargain! He played a blinder on his debut against Swindon at the Gate with the fee yet to be set by tribunal and we all thought 'ah damn, this guy is real good so he surely is going to cost tonnes of money', but we end up only having to pay something like 175k!

[Mr Ed]

This may not be recent but Gary Shelton was indeed a bargain buy. Think he signed on a free or part exchange from Oxford and was the mainstay of our midfield in the early nineties.

[Bangkok Red]

This may not be recent but Gary Shelton was indeed a bargain buy. Think he signed on a free or part exchange from Oxford and was the mainstay of our midfield in the early nineties.

Exchange deal with Steve Mclaren going to Oxford.

[Guest Eamer]

Steve Phillips?

[wybmadwity]

Some really interesting posts.

You all seemed to have vindicated my original point though! - we havent made many bargain buys in recent years!

Now we have Sir Gary on board all that is about to change!

- I'm not sure what he cost, but just at the moment I can't think of a better buy than GJ himself

[gaz897]

Our kit manufacturers have gave us some decent stock. From the bargin bin.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Nogbad

Thanks for doing the research. I've been browsing through my old programmes for that era and I didn't realise that Geoff Merrick played so many games (virtually all at left back) in 77/78. I also noticed that Dave Rodgers had a knee operation in the first half of that season and Collier also had a knee op following an injury in the february when Rodgers stepped into the centre half role. How much of the 1978/9 season Collier missed due to injury or non-selection isn't clear from what I've read so far - its just that my memory of Collier's non-selection was that it was Alan Dicks preferred pairing during that season.

The point I was making (getting back to the origin of this thread) was that part of Hunter's quality was to be able to link up with a guy who was basically a big bad stopper and make the partnership work to good effect. In the 79/80 when the main partnership was Rodgers and Merrick we ended up relegated.

If I could elaborate a bit more on Geoff Merrick, on a forum where the word legend is bandied around quite freely, as Captain of the promotion winning side as well as being an exceptional central defender at "Championship" level, Merrick is right up there. But I still maintain that he did not cut the mustard in the top flight, but as he didn't play in his natural position for virtually three seasons, we will never really know.

Whereas players like Gow, Whitehead, Ritchie, Tainton, Sweeney, Mann and Gillies really kicked on and the likes of Hunter, Royle and Mabbutt added quality to the team, Geoff played about two thirds of his games at left back where he never really looked comfortable. He was still a good tackler and defensive header but his control and distribution going forward was often shocking, he used to receive the ball on the halfway line, stop and take three steps back and then run up to the ball and give it an almighty hoof - this was OK in our promotion year when Paul Cheesely used to win virtually everything that came anywhere near him in the air, but after his unfortunate injury we always lacked that sort of target man.

Anyway thats how I saw things - without a game to focus on this week its good to have a debate about those wonderful days - and I always remember, great days that they were, being City fans we always found something to moan about! Some things don't change.

In answer to the question about the other central defenders used that season, we had Peter Kenyon on loan but he only played a few games, Alan Hay (remember him?) had a few games mid-season as well as Clive Whitehead who played most of his games at left back that season! and the versatile Donnie Gillies and Gerry Sweeney wore the 5 shirt. Happy days!

I'm not sure Dicks would often have chosen Rodgers over Collier, Old Dazzler. Collier took Rodgers' place and appears to have mostly kept it until Collier's still mysterious absence in 78-79. Mind you it does look as though Collier had a sporadic apps. record ( i'm assuming injuries) after the first season and Rodgers WAS fairly solid and he may well have maintained his place for stretches over Collier simply by making himself undroppable. Why break up the partnership of Rodgers and Hunter if the goals against tally is low even if a "better" player is available again? So you could well be right. Of course Rodgers also scored alot of goals for a centre-half and this must have counted in his favour. I'm sure you're right that playing with Norman was a huge benefit to Rodgers and Collier alike, it must have been a massive confidence booster to have him alongside them. For Rodgers, it surely made him twice the player, and without Norman it's doubtful whether he'd have amassed many First Division starts for City. I can't imagine he'd have got any top flight starts away from City, whereas i thought Collier always looked comfortable and played within himself.

As for Sir Geoffrey, i'm afraid we're not going to agree on that one. I only remember him as a skilful, whole-hearted, tough -tackling player who had a great leap and won most balls in the air. A really inspirational Captain who led by example and whose attitude didn't change when Norman arrived. I don't ever remember him being given the runaround, even out of position at left-back. You're probably right that he "didn't kick on" in the First but, as you say, injuries and playing out of position would account for this. Unlike Rodgers i'm convinced Geoff could have been successful elsewhere. I don't remember the hoofing bit - i always thought we were quite renowned for playing it out of defence, but it's a long time ago and i don't deny it may well have happened.

The list of players you mention were all heroes to me of course. Having said that Royle was a big disappointment goal wise after that 4 goal debut, but we'd already lost the best in Cheese. Mabbutt, i thought flattered to deceive and his reputation is largely built on that hat-trick at Old Trafford. he actually scored 19 goals in 80 appearances, incl sub., in the First Division. My view of him is tainted somewhat by the fact i kept him out of my Primary School football team, and but for the fact i was sent to a Rugby only school have always convinced it would have been me knocking them in for City!

I do remember Alan Hay, mostly because he is amongst my least favourite ever City players. You don't mention Peter Cormack who i thought was a real class act. Even though he was really a midfield player, his First Division goal scoring ratio for City - 15 in 63, incl. subs was more or less the same as Mabbutt at just about 1 in 4. Also provided one of my top memories of the time when i witnessed his first return to Liverpool in a City shirt, watching incognito from the Kop. Gerry Gow scored with a stormer then Joey Jones fired in a 30 yarder and i think in the end we lost 2-1. They gave him a fantastic welcome back but frankly i wouldn't have fancied my chances if i'd celebrated Gow's goal. Great reputation they might have had, but in amongst them they just looked like wild-eyed fanatics and when half a dozen City fans made themselves known in the enclosure to our left there was a massive surge to try and get at them. I was, um, quite concerned....

Looking at it, it's amazing that players such as Whitehead, Merrick and Gillies all managed to succeed in the top flight despite changing from the positions they had held down previously. I suppose they must simply have been good footballers.

Happy Days indeed, and as Mary Hopkin said, we thought they'd never end.

[Guest The Traveller]

100k for shaun taylor has to be a bargin.

[Bristolface]

How much did we pay for Andy COle?

i belive is was half a million

[Byrd9999]

I second Tinnion.

For all the years service he gave us. The best left foot outside of the top flight. And that goal. Repaid his transfer fee many many times over.

[Pewsham]

Whilst agreeing that Norman Hunter was probably our best ever value for money signing, Peter Cormack should have a place in the top five. His control of the game, coupled with a brace of goals against Arsenal warmed a damp, cold Saturday afternoon in Bristol.

[myoudale]

luke wilkshire best buy.

[Guest The Traveller]

100k for shaun taylor he was a steal.

if we sign sankofa from charlton that could well be a bargin(early days for him)

[Alex_BCFC]

500k for Steve Jones.

[Guest 16Keane]

500k for Steve Jones.

That was worth the tan alone.

[Mr Gow]

Alan Walsh from Darlington for $10,000 has to one of the best signings we've ever made.

What about the biggest bargain in football history Norman Hunter for 40,000 in 1976-he kept City in the top flight for three years-then he left and we have not recovered since.

Cant agree enough with this, 2nd to Walshy was Tinman me finks