Well Done Milo

[megansdad]

Thought this worthy of a new thread rather than buried in an old one- great to see constructive thought on this subject, can't work the technolgy but I quote Milo below. How many of those who have been going on about this will put their names forward for Steward training:

"The Supporters Trust wants to represent fans views to the board. If there is sufficient interest from fans, by which I mean people willing to get actively involved in helping this happen, we'll willingly look to find ways to re-open the EE.

I believe the only significant obstacle is cost. The police will charge a fortune if we open it. That money needs to come from somewhere, logically those people using the EE. Without double checking my sources, I believe the cost is rumoured to be around £4,000. If you get 500 people, they'd need to pay an extra £8 per head on top of the normal ticket price.

Which means you overcome the price obstacle in one of two ways. Either demonstrate that the EE will be backed with 2,000+ people all willing to pay a £2 surcharge or more realistically, find a way to give the Club and the Police the confidence that it doesn't need £4K's worth of policing.

The only way that we could demonstrate that policing was not required is if the fans were willing to police it themselves. Are there enough fans willing to police it and how do we police it? Is it feasible to get a volunteer EE stewards team of 20 people? If so, are these people willing to take out a couple of hours to be trained up by our existing stewards?

The Supporters Trust can help put forward reasoned arguments but it needs a significant number of fans willing to get actively involved to give it a real chance of success. Who would be willing to get involved?"

[BB.]

I read somewhere about people getting "East End" cards if they sign up to the supporters trust. If you misbehave, you lose your card and can't get in again. That way you filter out the troulesome fans(if there are any) and are left with people who don't wan't to cause trouble, hense no £4000 police costs (or

whatever it is).

[megansdad]

that would make sense- how about a membership scheme specifically for the EE??

[BB.]

that would make sense- how about a membership scheme specifically for the EE??

That would be fine in my opinion.

The Supporters Trust want more people to get involved and this would be a brilliant way to get numbers up.

There are simple solutions if the Board will give them a go!!

The "trouble makers" really are only a few young lads and it's not like there was actually a riot. Yes, there were songs sang at away fans, but you get that at all decent football grounds. Exchanging songs from apposing supporters is all part of the football experience (or at least it should be) in my opinion. I'm sure if we met them after the game in a pub it wouldn't even be mentioned. The East End dwellers aren't animals like some people like to judge us as.

We just want some noise.

Also, we know it won't be as loud as it used to be, but it will be a massive improvement to the Ashton Gate atmosphere.

[megansdad]

79 views though so far and not one volunteer???

[tompo]

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

79 views though so far and not one volunteer???

Why, are you?

[BB.]

79 views though so far and not one volunteer???

The thing is, a lot of people have season tickets that they've paid over the odds for. The chances are they won't want to pay all that money and then miss the actual football to steward.

Maybe if you gave X amount of responsable big people a steward type card, so they can watch the game and if they see anyone causing trouble, which will be maybe once a season (the same you get in any other stand), then they have the authority to kick them out and remove their membership cards.

Stewards and police can actually incite crowd trouble (especially with young lads) as there is an expectation from the police that we will cause trouble and so some live up to it. I believe it's called "self-proclaiming prophesy" (or something like that).

I'm sure the one or two "trouble makers" will respond a lot better to fellow supporters than to someone in an elouminous yellow jacket.

I also think that anyone who does volunteer, should get a refund on their season ticket.

[Dollymarie]

I'll volunteer for Stewarding as long as everyone who goes in the EE is signed up to the trust.

But I'm only ickle!

[Jay]

But I'm only ickle!

'Tis true - she fits in ot the palm of your hand!

[Guest North Street]

Where does the sum of £4000 come from and is it solely for Policing? £4000 is a huge sum of money that had me straight away staring at the screen thinking "how much"! It would equate to £90000 a season and what quality of service did City get for their £4000 in the past?

As for the cards there is no need for that as even a minor misdemenaour in a football ground will usually carry a ban.

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

Where does the sum of £4000 come from and is it solely for Policing? £4000 is a huge sum of money that had me straight away staring at the screen thinking "how much"! It would equate to £90000 a season and what quality of service did City get for their £4000 in the past?

As for the cards there is no need for that as even a minor misdemenaour in a football ground will usually carry a ban.

You would think so

However it is ok to spit on people from the Atyeo, even in full few of the same stewards who make such a fuss of standing/swearing in other parts of the ground

[Lordofthebling]

So what we are saying is each steward/police officer costs £200 in the East End?

£50 an hour for 4 hours?

Seems a lot of money for a steward/officer to be on an hour. He or she would be £97,500 a year...

If they planned to move away supporters to the Williams - additional stewarding costs must already be catered for in Sextones budget. What you also have to bear in mind is that Ashton Gate IS NOT one stand down, so they have a larger capacity than anticipated = more money.

But I suppose thats more important...

[Guest North Street]

So what we are saying is each steward/police officer costs £200 in the East End?

£50 an hour for 4 hours?

Seems a lot of money for a steward/officer to be on an hour. He or she would be £97,500 a year...

I would love to sit down with the risk assesments which would have "had" to been down to come up with a figure. Control measures in place should have been in the past fence, stewards, cctv and police.I would then ask exactly why one of the control measures [policemen] v Plymouth & Hartlepol [play off] amongst others was sat in the williams bar resting! Quality service/best practice?

[Lordofthebling]

I would love to sit down with the risk assesments which would have "had" to been down to come up with a figure. Control measures in place should have been in the past fence, stewards, cctv and police.I would then ask exactly why one of the control measures [policemen] v Plymouth & Hartlepol [play off] amongst others was sat in the williams bar resting! Quality service/best practice?

It amazes me as well...

One point, do Police officer get more pay if they police a football match?

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

The police will DEMAND a presence at matches where homes fans share the East End with away fans.

Not sure why the club can't say no, but in fairness I don't think the club is to blame in this issue

[Lordofthebling]

The police will DEMAND a presence at matches where homes fans share the East End with away fans.

Not sure why the club can't say no, but in fairness I don't think the club is to blame in this issue

My point is though Wills, that the Club must have hoped that the East End would be rubble by now, and both home and away supporters would be sharing the Williams stand.

The cost of seperating the two sets of fans MUST have been budgeted for.

The fact that the club could make money by using the East End as a solely home stand, a stand they didnt think they would have, baffles me.

If the ST came up with membership cards etc, I really cannot see any reason why not to open it.

[BB.]

My point is though Wills, that the Club must have hoped that the East End would be rubble by now, and both home and away supporters would be sharing the Williams stand.

The cost of seperating the two sets of fans MUST have been budgeted for.

The fact that the club could make money by using the East End as a solely home stand, a stand they didnt think they would have, baffles me.

If the ST came up with membership cards etc, I really cannot see any reason why not to open it.

They've spent that budgeted money on Micheal Bridges' wages or some other bench warmer

[tompo]

[Guest North Street]

[Ian M]

I've guessed the seat dimension which I am willing to be proved wrong about, however, I haven't allowed any room for the fittings either side of each seat which, if the seat size is correct, would make the gap even longer.

I also ignored the gangways which again will make the gap longer.

Don't forget the club also bought those fences to help keep fans apart.

There's also ideas like suspending the netting that currently covers unused blocks from the roof of the stand to catch any objects on the off chance someone did throw something over the fence with enough power to transcend the gap between home and away fans.

[Brianred]

'Tis true - she fits in ot the palm of your hand!

Any relation to GJ ?

[Milo]

Maybe if you gave X amount of responsable big people a steward type card, so they can watch the game and if they see anyone causing trouble, which will be maybe once a season (the same you get in any other stand), then they have the authority to kick them out and remove their membership cards.

I also think that anyone who does volunteer, should get a refund on their season ticket.

That's exactly what's in my mind. I'm not talking about 20 people in yellow coats with their backs to the game. We need people who are marked in someway (hat / card / armband) who are there to watch the game but if people misbehave the volunteers step in. If everyone's behaving themselves, these people just enjoy the match and make some atmosphere like everyone else.

The point about training is that you'd need to make sure these people had an agreed strategy to deal with the trouble makers. I suspect that in the first instance, 2 or 3 volunteers approach the people making trouble and say "sorry lads, but if you keep behaving like that you'll end up being barred and you'll stop the rest of us here from using the East End in the future. Can you keep it down please?". The next step might be "if you do it again we'll ask the stewards to remove you" followed by stewards being invited in to remove those people.

It might require these people to be positioned near to the fence so that they can step in.

It might also require a "Keith Draisey", only this time being a pamphlet written by fans handed out on entrance about how important the EE is to fans and success and why it's important that the minority don't mess it up for the majority (and a 'code of conduct').

Another consideration might include a whip round (eg. extra £1 per fan for the first match) to allow for a limited police presence in the first match so that they can monitor the situation and provide feedback for future matches.

The cost of seperating the two sets of fans MUST have been budgeted for.

The revenue from larger gates and some limited progress in Cup matches will also have been budgeted for. On the positive (?) side, the budget has saved on win bonuses lately. By and large, as a club that typically loses £1M+ a season, what's in the budget is not relevant. It's money the Club hasn't got.

[megansdad]

Willsbridge Red to answer your question-

No

but then again- I haven't been jumping up and down eager to get the East En reopened

prefer watching from the Williams

and live in Singapore

You??

As for the remaining arguments about what the police want afraid that's where we are and it would be better to seek a constructive solution based upon the information provided a la Milo, than continue to question the information

[Guest]

That's exactly what's in my mind. I'm not talking about 20 people in yellow coats with their backs to the game. We need people who are marked in someway (hat / card / armband) who are there to watch the game but if people misbehave the volunteers step in. If everyone's behaving themselves, these people just enjoy the match and make some atmosphere like everyone else.

The point about training is that you'd need to make sure these people had an agreed strategy to deal with the trouble makers. I suspect that in the first instance, 2 or 3 volunteers approach the people making trouble and say "sorry lads, but if you keep behaving like that you'll end up being barred and you'll stop the rest of us here from using the East End in the future. Can you keep it down please?". The next step might be "if you do it again we'll ask the stewards to remove you" followed by stewards being invited in to remove those people.

It might require these people to be positioned near to the fence so that they can step in.

It might also require a "Keith Draisey", only this time being a pamphlet written by fans handed out on entrance about how important the EE is to fans and success and why it's important that the minority don't mess it up for the majority (and a 'code of conduct').

Another consideration might include a whip round (eg. extra £1 per fan for the first match) to allow for a limited police presence in the first match so that they can monitor the situation and provide feedback for future matches.

The revenue from larger gates and some limited progress in Cup matches will also have been budgeted for. On the positive (?) side, the budget has saved on win bonuses lately. By and large, as a club that typically loses £1M+ a season, what's in the budget is not relevant. It's money the Club hasn't got.

If I alledgedly earned 10 million last year the cost of a few un-needed police would be a drop in the ocean just for a few games and I would give it without a second thought

[Guest WillsbridgeRed]

You??

Oh you are a card, why would I want to police fans, I would miss drinking with them before the game!

[megansdad]

an effective plan to police them with ease during the subsequent game I would say

[Guest REDCIDERARMY]

Thanks Milo for trying for the supporters who would like the Eastend back,I always have siad the supporters have been offering extra money 2.50 has already been mentioned to re open and I would of thought 20 volunteers out of 300 would be easy to find

[Guest North Street]

Whoa the club have finally after months of trying produced more detail via the FCF of why the East End would require such policing.

http://www.bcfc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/News/...~752811,00.html

I am a little taken back by the line "at times under sixtens were seen to be running around the stand" which leaves me thinking BCFC are going to be banning children if that ever happened in the Atyeo.

It act actually paints quite a gloomy picture of Bcfc fans but i do not believe we are that bad! Where there really problems in there nearly every game?

I also feel if things were going so wrong in the East End that supporters policing would do a better job.

[Nibor]

It doesn't matter what anyone says now about if there were problems or would be in the future, fact is the plod have put their foot down and it's £4.5k + the cost of extra stewards to open it. Unless someone fancies trying to convince the old bill? Good luck with that.

Nibor