Hayter Vs Brooker

[Ian M]

Seeing as everyone seems to be welcoming "distinctly average League One striker" James Hayter so warmly ahead of a proposed move, I thought I would compare his recent record before a proposed move to City with that of everyone's favourite City striker, Steve Brooker.

Taking the 2 season's prior to a move/proposed move to City as a reflection of each striker's current ability we get the following figures:

Brooker: 13 goals in 64 appearances which equates to 0.203 goals per game

Hayter: 36 goals in 94 appearances which equates to 0.383 goals per game

Hayter has also outscored Brooker in each of the last 3 seasons as well as being 5 goals ahead of him this season.

There is a common misconception that Brooker was a great scorer when he came to this club but his previous season's best was 11 goals. He improved when on arrival when paired with another decent striker in Lita. Everyone to a man on here rates Brooker as a decent striker, why can we not expect Hayter to show a similar improvement only from a stronger startpoint?

......and for those who criticise signing someone of Hayter's age, get real! Outfield players are generally regarded to be playing at their peak between the ages of 27 & 30, who on Earth would we want to actively avoid signing someone on account of him approaching this age?

[grifty]

if i read that right - thats was for when brooker played for port vale...out of interest whats his strike rate here?

[Dastardly and Muttley]

24 goals in 53 appearances, including 2 from the bench according to soccerbase, so 2.208 goals per game.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think you will find that Hayter has also been the regular penalty taker at Bournemouth, which usually tends to distort such scoring comparisons with other, non penalty takers.

[arpaul]

What is Paul Heffernans goals per game ratio?

Can't help but think he was allowed to drift away too easily

[Dastardly and Muttley]

What is Paul Heffernans goals per game ratio?

Can't help but think he was allowed to drift away too easily

Too right, but the decision was done in the belief that we wouldn't be losing Leroy. I don't think the board really expected anyone to meet their £1million asking price on the back of one season's worth of goals.

Was a disappointing loss, but that's the way it goes in football sometimes.

[cidercity]

24 goals in 53 appearances, including 2 from the bench according to soccerbase, so 2.208 goals per game.

I think you will find thats 0.4528301 goals per game not 2.208

[Dastardly and Muttley]

I think you will find thats 0.4528301 goals per game not 2.208

Good point, couple of cans of cider never helps my maths!

[Nibor]

There is a common misconception that Brooker was a great scorer when he came to this club

I strongly disagree.

There's a common perception that Brooker is now both an excellent target man and scores plenty of goals, and could play at above this level.

There's significant doubt that Hayter will score plenty of goals or could play above this level because he's had alot longer to show it and he hasn't.

I would suggest that for £150k-£200k there are probably better players to be had.

Nibor

[Nibor]

Grr edit buggered up. I was going to add...

I find your numbers misleading. In using the two seasons before Brooker came here with Hayter's last two you are comparing Brooker's second and third full professional seasons at the ages of 21-23 with Hayter's seventh and eighth at the ages of 24-26. You're also neglecting to mention the injuries that kept Brooker out for half of the 03/04 season. Here's another spin on the numbers.

Hayter, 8 seasons, 244 league appearances, 76 league goals, averages a goal every 3.21 games (3.89 if you include subs).

Brooker, 5 seasons, 171 league appearances, 60 league goals, averages a goal every 2.85 games (3.08 if you include subs).

So in other words Brooker is superior despite being younger and playing as a target man. I don't think Hayter would be that bad a signing but I'm not excited about it either.

Nibor

[Ian M]

Grr edit buggered up. I was going to add...

I find your numbers misleading. In using the two seasons before Brooker came here with Hayter's last two you are comparing Brooker's second and third full professional seasons at the ages of 21-23 with Hayter's seventh and eighth at the ages of 24-26. You're also neglecting to mention the injuries that kept Brooker out for half of the 03/04 season. Here's another spin on the numbers.

Hayter, 8 seasons, 244 league appearances, 76 league goals, averages a goal every 3.21 games (3.89 if you include subs).

Brooker, 5 seasons, 171 league appearances, 60 league goals, averages a goal every 2.85 games (3.08 if you include subs).

So in other words Brooker is superior despite being younger and playing as a target man. I don't think Hayter would be that bad a signing but I'm not excited about it either.

Nibor

i) Small point, the seasons I used were actually Brooker's 3rd & 4th seasons. He scored 11 in each of his first two seasons.

ii) You're doing a grand job of aiding people's ability to slag off players before they even arrive at Ashton Gate. Even though I understand that wasn't your aim. It was what i was trying to fight against.

iii) I'm not trying to argue over who will be the better forward during their career, just arguing the point that if Hayter were to join he's actually scoring more successfully at the point he were to join than Brooker who we all know turned out to be a pretty decent signing from the off.

[Nibor]

ii) You're doing a grand job of aiding people's ability to slag off players before they even arrive at Ashton Gate. Even though I understand that wasn't your aim. It was what i was trying to fight against.

I saw what I was doing as playing down the hype that was apparent on here - Hayter was god because we'd put in a bid/he was available/he looked ok against us etc. I reckon Hayter's fine for this league but I'd like to see us be more ambitious and get a player with potential to improve beyond that. We do ultimately want to get promoted after all.

I take your point though.

Nibor

[havanatopia]

Good point, couple of cans of cider never helps my maths!

[/quote

anyway, fact is he's got worse since joining city.

[Guest Alexbcfc]

What is it about People Trying to compare the two when chances are they will be playing together not against...Hayter may not have scored many a few years back but he has for the past couple of seasons which shows hes improving...For £150,000...as long as he keeps us up this year and fires the goals next years to the championship who cares what his past record is! Its what hes doing now tha matters...hes no one season wonder cus hes starting to do it consistently at this level now...I certainly rather have him than Jevons

[Ian M]

The 3 main names pushed on this forum seem to be Holt, Hayter & Parkin. Having watched all their goals from last season I would say Holt looks the most skilful, Parkin looks the most powerful & Hayter looks the most opportunistic.

Curiously the shortest of the trio, Hayter, seems to score the most headers!

Holt scored an absolutely brilliantly cheeky Thorpe-sque lob.

Parkin looked more mobile than you'd expect given his frame.

[PhatWill]

Looks like Swansea are in for Holt again with a renewed bid according to BBC Sport. Also Rory Fallon.

Let's hope they get Fallon and we'll take Holt!

Fair deal in my opinion

[samo]

Looks like Swansea are in for Holt again with a renewed bid according to BBC Sport. Also Rory Fallon.

Let's hope they get Fallon and we'll take Holt!

Fair deal in my opinion

still hope we take a risk on Parkin. he's like Brooker, just taller and stronger, and would free up Steve from 'target man' and help him score more.

Holt would be good too, but i still say Parkin would cost less and add more. just an opinion though.

[Redhyde]

I'd much prefer to go Parkin too. Goal scorer with presence. Not a slouch and uses his size effectively (Are you listening Bas?). At 24 he's the right age to improve too.

Would cost six figures though as a bid of that amount has already been turned down. Get him GJ

[Southport Red]

24 goals in 53 appearances, including 2 from the bench according to soccerbase, so 2.208 goals per game.

Would that be 2.208 games per goal?

[Nogbad the Bad]

Would cost six figures though as a bid of that amount has already been turned down. Get him GJ

Has it, i must have missed that?

Heard Chester had 50k. bid turned down, nothing else.

Anyway, Parkin would be my first choice though i wouldn't go over 150k. at the most and i doubt it would be necessary to.

He's very promising and personally i reckon he could tear up trees for City, but he is a 4th Division player after all.

[Guest harveythompson]

Sky Sports News said that we are favourites to sign him

[samo]

Has it, i must have missed that?

Heard Chester had 50k. bid turned down, nothing else.

Anyway, Parkin would be my first choice though i wouldn't go over 150k. at the most and i doubt it would be necessary to.

He's very promising and personally i reckon he could tear up trees for City, but he is a 4th Division player after all.

just watched his goals from last season (call it retrospective scouting!) and he's not too bad with his feet, scored a couple of nice long range efforts. seems like alot of his goals are poachers efforts. you'd have thought defenders could see someone that big ghosting into space!

someone metioned his attitude being shady, but the only thing i've heard is off a fella who works for wycombe. said that he bumped into parkin at their ground prior to kick off. parkin was on his phone outside just after macclesfield had arrived, and asked how to get back to the changing rooms. the guy had a bit of a laugh and sent him the wrong way, only to bump into parkin later as he went to warm up. Parkin joked and said something like "i'm getting a hat-trick for you taking the p1ss"! he then went on to get two in a 5-4 win. clearly hes a liar! we don't need that at the city!

Sky Sports News said that we are favourites to sign him

do you mean parkin or hayter?

[Guest Harvey9]

just watched his goals from last season (call it retrospective scouting!) and he's not too bad with his feet, scored a couple of nice long range efforts. seems like alot of his goals are poachers efforts. you'd have thought defenders could see someone that big ghosting into space!

someone metioned his attitude being shady, but the only thing i've heard is off a fella who works for wycombe. said that he bumped into parkin at their ground prior to kick off. parkin was on his phone outside just after macclesfield had arrived, and asked how to get back to the changing rooms. the guy had a bit of a laugh and sent him the wrong way, only to bump into parkin later as he went to warm up. Parkin joked and said something like "i'm getting a hat-trick for you taking the p1ss"! he then went on to get two in a 5-4 win. clearly hes a liar! we don't need that at the city!

do you mean parkin or hayter?

Hayter, should have added that really shouldn't I

[Redhyde]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...own/4580074.stm

There's the link about the offers for Parkin.

for those who don't really want to read the whole thing like me.

Macclesfield have rejected two bids for 24-year-old striker Jon Parkin.

The Silkmen turned down £50,000 from Chester and an offer from Lincoln which involved a six-figure sum plus players.

[Mikenoski]

Why are you comparing Brooker and Hayters stats as if one would re-place the other? I would welcome a proven goal scorer at this level, like Hayter, to play ALONGSIDE Brooker.

[gazareth]

Why are you comparing Brooker and Hayters stats as if one would re-place the other? I would welcome a proven goal scorer at this level, like Hayter, to play ALONGSIDE Brooker.

I don't think that's the point. I think Madger was saying that many people are slating Hayter's record as though it's a deterrant to signing him, and he was pointing out that if we'd applied the same criteria to Brooker before he signed, many would have come to the same conclusion.