Peter Crouch Quote

[Mikenoski]

"Everywhere I went in Liverpool, everyone was superb. I've found there's a lot of togetherness in the city, it's all of us against all of them, and maybe that's why people responded to my situation. I think a different set of supporters might have jumped on the bandwagon and given me stick."

Wouldnt it be nice if we could offer the same kind of support to players like Bas Savage. Crouch has turned out to be quite prolific for Liverpool. So why don't we get behind Savage and encourage him instead of slating him??

[red man dan]

Crouch had scored goals before in his career at Southampton, Bas has never scored before, could not score in league two for either Bury or Wycombe and is one of only a few strikers we now have left. I thing you,ll find most people do support him, and really appreciate the effort he puts in, but the thing is we need effort and goals at the moment, or we may get relegated. Do you really see Bas scoring many?

[Mikenoski]

I think Bas could get plenty of goals if he were only more confident when faced with a shooting opportunity. To have never scored a professional goal must have been a real burden to him and is bound to have made him feel even more pressured. I also think Bas will be setting up a lot of goals for the team.

With our support and encouragment he will do well!

[red man dan]

well he has now scored so has the burden been lifted?

if so where are the goals?

I would love him to do well, as he has a great work ethic and gives his all, but i just don't think he is good enough for this league.

[Mikenoski]

Hopfully the burden has been lifted and the goals will start flying in. I may be proved wrong but I still think he will do well for us.

[Dave L]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the historical reasons for this difference in attitude are. But for all the glories of Bristol (and don't get me wrong, I love it here and it's a much better place to live than Liverpool) I constantly get bemused by this Eeyore mentality that seems prevalent amongst many Bristolians.

Discuss

[Mikenoski]

I couldnt think of a fairer summary of the culture of not just this City but many throughout the UK

[BigTone]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the historical reasons for this difference in attitude are. But for all the glories of Bristol (and don't get me wrong, I love it here and it's a much better place to live than Liverpool) I constantly get bemused by this Eeyore mentality that seems prevalent amongst many Bristolians.

Discuss

I don't agree cos my brother went to school with Isambard Kingdom Brunel

[Guest Tosey]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the historical reasons for this difference in attitude are. But for all the glories of Bristol (and don't get me wrong, I love it here and it's a much better place to live than Liverpool) I constantly get bemused by this Eeyore mentality that seems prevalent amongst many Bristolians.

Discuss

If we are comparing the cultures of bristol and liverpool, why have you failed to mention the thieving culture in liverpool?

[Dave L]

If we are comparing the cultures of bristol and liverpool, why have you failed to mention the thieving culture in liverpool?

Because I was trying to address key cultural differences between two great cities, not resort to cheap, meretricious stereotypes.

[lotusman]

Mikenoski, love the sentiment but the comparison is not realistic.Crouch is an experienced player who had already had two big money moves behind him ,who had already proved he could score goals on a regular basis,and his style and technique could offer Liverpool a dimension different from those they had.

Our young man offers honest endeavour,sadly he possesses no intuitive or instinctive ability in scoring goals.Goals are always a precious commodity especially when you really need to win a few games,events & personalities have transpired with us to give him an opportunity that simply would probably not occur at any other football league club.

A few years back when gloom and despondancy surrounded our club the 3 wise-men immeadiately summonds back Tony Thorpe, they realised the quickest way to restore confidence and morale was to score some goals.G.J. is backing a different formula,a non scoring striker is generally regarded as part of the problem rather than a solution!

[Guest DrFaustus]

Because I was trying to address key cultural differences between two great cities, not resort to cheap, meretricious stereotypes.

Meretricious? He'll be lost now Dave, the specious arse!

[Goldberg]

Liverpool sign an Iraqi striker and put him straight in the squad for their upcoming match against Manchester Utd at Anfield.

With Utd 2-0 up at half-time Rafa Benitez decides to bring him on.

He winds up scoring a hat-trick and Liverpool win 3-2 and he is awarded the man of the match.

He phones home to tell his mum how well he has done on his debut

"mum you'll never guess what, I scored a hat-trick on my debut and was man of the match."

"That's great," said mum, "at least someone has had a good day. You're father has been beaten up and both me and your sister have been raped, and it's all your fault."

The striker says "I am sorry to hear that but I don't see how it is my fault?."

"Sorry," she says "You made us move to Liverpool."

Ha ha ha

The old ones are the best

[Dave L]

Meretricious? He'll be lost now Dave, the specious arse!

Indubitably.

[RedTop]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the historical reasons for this difference in attitude are. But for all the glories of Bristol (and don't get me wrong, I love it here and it's a much better place to live than Liverpool) I constantly get bemused by this Eeyore mentality that seems prevalent amongst many Bristolians.

Discuss

Very true, Dave. There is too much negativity around the city, from the council downwards, and among many of the people. It's as if people expect perfection served on a plate but can't be arsed to work to get it. The city has lost out over recent years for many reasons, EU redevelopment money given to nearby Cardiff among them. But the refusal to find land for a stadium the city can be proud of - for either club - is exactly the sort of lack of foresight and pride among the city's leaders that makes the city feel like it is not moving forward. There have been imaginitive projects, like the @Bristol wildlife centre, and hopefully the new Broadmead development will drag us into the 21st century, but when compared to other cities we seem to be falling behind. It's as if there's no belief that the city can do it and no drive to make it the best.

I don't share quite such a positive view of Liverpool. I think their 'them versus us' attitude comes at a cost and has negatives too, but there is no doubt that one positive aspect is the willingness to pull together that we would do well to learn from.

The widespread knee-jerk slagging off of the Supporters' Trust and all it stands for at the first opportunity is just one classic example of the damage that 'Eeyore' mentality does. If there was ever anything that you would expect City fans to rally round, it is an organisation set up to increase their input into the club, run by fans for fans without any ambitions to make money out of them. While many have rallied to the cause and offered support to these guys and gals, genuine long-time City fans who have emerged from among us, there have been far too many who just did not seem to be able to wait for the slightest chance to write the ST off and attack it.

Which leaves you to speculate: In the face of such mindless hostility, is it any wonder that people don't feel inspired to go out on a limb and try to do something positive? Just how many opportunities has the city, and the club, lost over the years because the prospect of fighting against people's insistence of seeing a glass as half empty and putting extra obstacles in their way, instead of seizing the moment, has made potential innovators think: "Why bother? It'll be easier to do it somewhere else." That goes for developers and architects in the city, and players or potential investors at the club.

I truly wish we could pull together and act as a positive, united force. Not just for 90 minutes on a Saturday, but by getting behind people who are trying to do something positive. Not blind, unquestioning cheerleading, but genuine support offering suggestions and help instead of barracking from the margins - constructive criitcism from an optimistic 'can do' perspect rather than shooting things down in flames. That goes for everything from Bas Savage to Steve Lansdown to Ashton Gate redevelopment to the Supporters' Trust.

The old saying of 'United we stand, divided we fall' has never been truer. It is up to us as individuals to decide which alternative we prefer and then go for it.

[StapleHillPhil]

Which leaves you to speculate: In the face of such mindless hostility, is it any wonder that people don't feel inspired to go out on a limb and try to do something positive? Just how many opportunities has the city, and the club, lost over the years because the prospect of fighting against people's insistence of seeing a glass as half empty and putting extra obstacles in their way, instead of seizing the moment, has made potential innovators think: "Why bother? It'll be easier to do it somewhere else." That goes for developers and architects in the city, and players or potential investors at the club.

Interesting thoughts RT and many that I would agree with.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but were you not part of the incider team that made John Maguire look rather foolish when he mooted the notion of finding investors to take City forward? He may not have been the ideal candidate for the role, but perhaps if fans hadn't been so quick to ridicule, he may have been able to bring people to the table that the current board are unable to.

[RedTop]

Interesting thoughts RT and many that I would agree with.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but were you not part of the incider team that made John Maguire look rather foolish when he mooted the notion of finding investors to take City forward? He may not have been the ideal candidate for the role, but perhaps if fans hadn't been so quick to ridicule, he may have been able to bring people to the table that the current board are unable to.

That's a fair point and perhaps it does sound hypocritical of me. However, I would point out that Maguire invited ridicule because his plans were, frankly, ridiculous. in that sense it was JM who made himself look foolish. We merely held up the mirror for him. In general we were able, I hope, to have fun and satirize the set-up and players at Ashton Gate and remind them that they were not untouchable gods while remaining positive about the club. The aim was to help make supporting City fun, and speaking to some of the 'victims' like Christian Roberts and SteveL, they understood our aims and intentions, though doubtless there were inevitably times when our radar was off the mark or we went too far. In general, I look at The Incider as a positive project for that reason.

There was, however, very little of merit in JM's plans and I think the vast majority of fans - regardless of whether they viewed the current chairman positively or not - saw through him pretty quickly. Our interview with him was part of what exposed his plans and motives as bad for the club. Once that was clear, and that we felt he was doing something that would only destabilize and harm the club we love, then he was 'fair game'. Like I say, our job was to hold up the mirror.

I accept there are some who could argue that such a thing might put off investors, but within the context of how The Incider treated other topics and individuals it should also have been clear that anyone offering something positive for our club would be welcomed and supported (as well as parodied!)

[redrocks]

That goes for everything from Bas Savage to Steve Lansdown to Ashton Gate redevelopment to the Supporters' Trust.

A very interesting selection of examples. Bas Savage and Steve L: very similar in terms of commitment, effort and reaching/scoring goals. Ashton Gate redevelopment and Supporters' Trust: two examples of some good intentions shackled out of the gate by cack-handed PR, questionable management and poor communication.

It's all very well all this positive thinking, but it would be good to see some lessons being learnt at the top. The faux-pasometre has been going nuts at a time where our form has plummeted faster than the Sun's sales on Merseyside.

Dear oh deary me.

[WTFiGO!?!]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I'll leave it to others to speculate as to what the historical reasons for this difference in attitude are. But for all the glories of Bristol (and don't get me wrong, I love it here and it's a much better place to live than Liverpool) I constantly get bemused by this Eeyore mentality that seems prevalent amongst many Bristolians.

Discuss

Delightfully heart warming read Dave.

Am completely biassed as I have been hopelessly in love with Everton FC since about the age of five and can only take notice of the positive stereo types associated with the City.

First went to Goodison when I was about 9 in the Summer as we were passing with my family on a trip to Jock land and there was no way my Dad could say no. We reached the Club, me all kitted out in my Neville Southall top, and I know football has changed but we met the bloke in the Club shop and explained our situation. He got it sorted straight away for us to have a free tour of the ground and in classic Scouse humour the chap that came down said 'Oh look, its Neville Southall, oh know it isn't' (I was a giant of a kid) this has gone down in history in my house.

Go up there these days, get in a pub and explain myself as a completely random Everton fan from Bristol to anybody willing to listen and its always 'ey ey, our kid, love The Peoples Club is it? eh eh' I've got a lot of time for the place. Always so friendly, non judgemental and welcoming. They seem to have a real pride in themselves and combine it nicely with the attitude of not taking themselves too seriously. I've heard the bitterness that was once associated with the city has also significantly lifted.

I feel Bristolians could learn a lot from their example. BCFC more than Rovers I've always thought has had real problems with internal unity and it is partly responsible for us so badly under achieving. 'I'm a truer fan than you' etc etc.

Peter Crouch handled his goal drout so amicabally, I never once heard anything negative in his post match interviews and things must have got to him slightly. Another story I will raise is that of the 20000 odd Liverpool fans, 3-0 down to probably the best team in Europe in Istanbul. At half time could you hear any booing or jeering? Could you b0110x!!! The lot of them were giving it 'You'll Never Walk Alone' for the entire 15 minutes and I believe Steven Gerrard dedicated the win to them. I do realize City can only dream of reaching the European Cup Final but all things are relative.

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...Who on earth do you think you are? A superstar? well right you are, but we all shine on.... (Instant Karma - Lennon)

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[RedZepperin]

[RedTop]

[RedZepperin]

[pamelam]

As someone who was brought up on Merseyside but has lived in Bristol for many years, I think this reveals a lot about the respective psyches of the two different cities. There is a sense of togetherness and 'us against the world' in Liverpool that you don't see so much of in Bristol. To hear a lot of scousers talk, Liverpool is one long street where everybody lives next door to each other and everybody's older brother went to school with Paul McCartney. If you leave Liverpool and get in trouble, there's a deep seated belief that you'll somehow bring shame on the whole City. A case in point - I was in a bowling alley in Nottingham several years back with a scouse mate who got in a row with a local lad in the next lane who was winding him up because of his accent. Despite being badly provoked, and itching to thump the guy, my mate did nothing. Later, I asked him why. 'It would have looked bad back in Liverpool' he said. 'Another scouser causing trouble. I'd have got a lot of grief from the lads'. Even Liverpool and Everton fans will unite to defend their City if they feel they are being attacked or criticised by outsiders.

I don't see that in Bristol. There's an underlying negativity about the place - a feeling that things could and should be better, but no sense that people are prepared to work together to achieve it. This is reflected in the poor state of the City Centre, abysmal education and transport systems, two perennially underachieving football teams whose fans take great delight in each other's misfortunes, but also have a tendency to rubbish any attempts to improve things. A casual perusal of this forum being all the evidence you need to support that argument.

I 100% agree with you... I am from Bristol born now living in Dublin, I am very proud to be from Bristol and will never ever forget my roots, I very often travel to Liverpool and think its a fantastic city to the people I agree are so together and so friendly...Bristol I am afraid are loosing this culture..other posters here have mentioned the thieving in liverpool well theres alot of that in Bristol to...Bristolians are turning out to be alot of moaners.

I have been to a few city games this season and was very dissapointed with the suppport they are getting its no wonder the team are lacking confidence when you hear the crap thats being hurled at them shame on you called supportes who behave in this manner. come on pull together and get behind your team .

Discuss