bristolborn_and_red Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 A respected daily newspaper in Eygpt published the offensive cartoons. Not today. Not yesterday but last October during ramadan, islams holiest month. Why was there no outcry then? What about guarding the honour of their prophet? Why did it take so long for the rage to surface? And why don't our mainstream media know about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 As i understand it it was not actually the cartoons that the danish paper published that have caused the problems, but some fake cartoons produced by Danish Imams and given out to stir up hatred while they were on a tour of the middle east, were the major problem, the ones published were ill advised and bloody stupid, as it just shows a complete lack of respect, as depicting people in art especially any of the prophets is forbidden by Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Have a look here Spud, lets us know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest revkev Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 As i understand it it was not actually the cartoons that the danish paper published that have caused the problems, but some fake cartoons produced by Danish Imams and given out to stir up hatred while they were on a tour of the middle east, were the major problem, the ones published were ill advised and bloody stupid, as it just shows a complete lack of respect, as depicting people in art especially any of the prophets is forbidden by Islam.Programme on Radio 4 about this very subject NOW.If you've missed it, go to bbc.co.uk/radio4 and you can listen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolborn_and_red Posted February 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 As i understand it it was not actually the cartoons that the danish paper published that have caused the problems, but some fake cartoons produced by Danish Imams and given out to stir up hatred while they were on a tour of the middle east, were the major problem, the ones published were ill advised and bloody stupid, as it just shows a complete lack of respect, as depicting people in art especially any of the prophets is forbidden by Islam.No, it was the cartoons the Danish press published (I've seen the frontpage of the said Egyptian newspaper).It might be forbidden by Islam but Denmark are under no such contraints being a secular, western democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 No, it was the cartoons the Danish press published (I've seen the frontpage of the said Egyptian newspaper).It might be forbidden by Islam but Denmark are under no such contraints being a secular, western democracy.Doesn't make it any less ill advised though. They knew it would cause offense, and **** people off but did it anyway, but you can't expect the media to do anything like think before they do something. It was just idiocy in the current climate, a lot of muslims are already concerned that the western world has declared war on Islam, with some justification, as all this moral highground rubbish that we and the US are parading about is complete and utter rubbish. I'd be happy if they were at least honest with the world.The reaction has been just bloody stupid from the Muslims and nothing short of disgusting, the extreemists seem intent on initiating a war between the mostly Christian west and the Muslim countries, which is one of the stupidest ideas ever, as they can't hope to win. The cartoon on the front of that French newspaper is bloody hillarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfc Posted February 9, 2006 Report Share Posted February 9, 2006 Spud with all due respect countries in Western Europe are rapidly becoming muslim states.France and Holland are well on their way and if the current trend continues will be muslim states within two generations.Britain is heading the same way but in the third generation we will become a muslim state.The West is becoming less and less Christian while the vile stoneage religion that oppresses women and is popular in third world countries spreads and is taking over.I feel sorry for my Grandchildren when they are born especially if they are girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Spud with all due respect countries in Western Europe are rapidly becoming muslim states.France and Holland are well on their way and if the current trend continues will be muslim states within two generations.Britain is heading the same way but in the third generation we will become a muslim state.The West is becoming less and less Christian while the vile stoneage religion that oppresses women and is popular in third world countries spreads and is taking over.I feel sorry for my Grandchildren when they are born especially if they are girls.May i ask where you got your information from ? Muslims make up less than 3 percent of the total British population, less than 1 percent in scotland, the firgure for france isaout 4 million in a population of about 60 million, The figure in Holland is much higher with about 1 million Muslims in a population of 16 Million People. The trend would have to increase exponentially for it to become a problem. While the US has a population of aout 224 million Christians, Russia has about 80 million Christians, 51 million in the UK, 44 Million in France. The western world is still hugely dominated by Christians, be they fully practicing or just casual. Muslims would be looking to at least have parity in numbers before being able to force a western state to become an Islamic one, either this country, is going to have to loose a massive portion of it's population or the populaton is going to have to increase by at least 30-40 million muslims for them to even be close to achieveing parity with christians.France isn't exactly showing any signs of becoming a Muslim state, they banned all religious iconography from scholols less than 2 years ago, and have since the days of the revolution at least nominally tired to seperate Religion from State.Christianity is still the biggest religion in the world, with about 800 million more followers than Islam, which has 1.3 billion followers, with atheism being the next numerous with 1.1 billion people not being religious.These are just domestic considerations, when you look at the geopolitical considerations the future of Islam is even more fragile. Do you really think that we care about the middle east or the muslims ? Do you believe that as soon as the Oil starts running low we won't abandon them completely ? Once we have raped them of all their natural resources because they are too bloody stupid to exploit them themselfs, they will be screwed, the western world will walk away, if not turn large parts of it into a wasteland that glows a nice shade of green because some terrorists did something stupid. It will be a shame because Islamic Civilisations have been some of the most advanced and important to the development of the world, they made the basis of all modern technology possible when they came up with numbers instead of using Roman numerals. However their religion as it is now, perverted for he controll and opression of people has set a civilisation and culture that was once and te forefront of the world back to being little more than savages to be exploited and eventually either forgotten or wiped out.Why do you think the western world is so determined to stop Iran getting nuclear technology ? is it because we are terrified that they are going to touch us with nukes ? what are they going to do with a nuke on a scud ? attack some P.O.S country in the middle east, ooh scary. It's because the US and everyone else knows that Oil is running out, and the world is going to need ever increasing amounts of power, and that will become the new oil. Iran has stated that they want to be a major player in that market and we don't want that, because otherwise we can't marginalise them.The Muslims are lucky at the moment in that the western world is relatively healthy, but that may not be the case for much longer, the world economy is living on borrowed time, the US economy is dangerously fragile, two of it's biggest companies, Ford and GM are not doing well at the moment and are doing all they can to sort themselfs out. If and when that goes the world is going to look for someone to blame, as we always do. If the economic conditions are right, then it doesn't take much to turn people to genocide, just a good orator with the political will to do so. As it is now we have a feew nationalist parties about, the BNP, who although bloody stupid (read their policies) are a nationalist party, and there are a couple of others as well, and this is while economic conditions are good, what happens if something goes badly wrong with th world economy ? Who would shoulder the blame ? it wouldn't be you or me, it would be the Muslims.This is what the extreemists don't get, we are the only thing stopping far more widespread action being taken by our governments, the government barely had the mandate from the people to go to war in iraq, and they are struggling to keep the mandate of the people to stay there, and public oppinion is a major factor in these theings, a major part in the Us capitulation in Vietnam was because public oppinion went, once the mandate of the people has gone then you can't do anything but do what they want. As soon as they do something big, they US, Uk and every other western government will have the mandate from the people to do all that is necessary. If someone set off a low yield nuclear device in New York(which is what they would like to do), the Us government would have at least the mandate to retalliate with tactical nuclear weapons, and depending on the mood at the time, mabye even the mandate to bring their strategic nuclear arsenal to bear, and there is no way anyone else could object.My taking on the whole subject is that unless the Muslims wake up and smell the coffee and start forcing the extreemists out on their own, rather than sheltering them, then they are ******. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagest Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 Spud with all due respect countries in Western Europe are rapidly becoming muslim states.France and Holland are well on their way and if the current trend continues will be muslim states within two generations.Britain is heading the same way but in the third generation we will become a muslim state.The West is becoming less and less Christian while the vile stoneage religion that oppresses women and is popular in third world countries spreads and is taking over.I feel sorry for my Grandchildren when they are born especially if they are girls.Total poppycock. Where's your evidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest revkev Posted February 10, 2006 Report Share Posted February 10, 2006 The West is becoming less and less Christian while the vile stoneage religion that oppresses women and is popular in third world countries spreads and is taking over.There is a greater concern to many people of "faith" (Christian, muslim, Jewish, etc. etc.), and that is SECULARISM, not fundamentalism.The Christian values which previous generations have taken for granted have been eroded over the years, and the children and grandchildren of immigrants from the Indian subcontinent are also turning away from the faith of their forebears.One reaction to this is the rise of fundamentalism, which is a rearguard action by some against what they see as the secular erosion of their religious and ethnic identity.If you are concerned about what you believe to be a "less Christian" West, the obvious thing would be to react against it and become "more Christian"..... but please, not a fundamentalist "flat earth" version, that gives the rest of us a bad name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgsmuzzy Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 the firgure for france isaout 4 million in a population of about 60 million, The figure in Holland is much higher with about 1 million Muslims in a population of 16 Million People. Just to add a little light humour here and point out a flaw! 4 million in 60 million is actually a higher percentage than 1 million in 16 million.......sorryI'll get mi coat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spud55 Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Just to add a little light humour here and point out a flaw! 4 million in 60 million is actually a higher percentage than 1 million in 16 million.......sorryI'll get mi coat!That is a very good point, but it's only about .3 of a percent difference so lets not quibble too much hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo1bc Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Doesn't make it any less ill advised though. They knew it would cause offense, and **** people off but did it anyway, but you can't expect the media to do anything like think before they do something. It was just idiocy in the current climate, a lot of muslims are already concerned that the western world has declared war on Islam, with some justification, as all this moral highground rubbish that we and the US are parading about is complete and utter rubbish. I'd be happy if they were at least honest with the world.The reaction has been just bloody stupid from the Muslims and nothing short of disgusting, the extreemists seem intent on initiating a war between the mostly Christian west and the Muslim countries, which is one of the stupidest ideas ever, as they can't hope to win. The cartoon on the front of that French newspaper is bloody hillarious.Very well said Spud.Interesting link below to contribute to this debate.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4703260.stm'>Khatami Statement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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