Judge And Jury

[mozo]

So on saturday Lansdown is to answer the questions and concerns of some fans.

His comments in the Post are quite interesting, the issue of 'judging' keeps arising.

The man who famously said 'Judge me on Tinnion's success', now says 'I know I'm being judged on [Tinnion's failure] but it's not the end of the story.'

He also says: 'Gary wanted to build his own side when he came here, and this is now his team. He's being judged on that the same way I'm being judged'

So...without getting drawn into the old debates about dubious decision making, what should we fans expect from this point on?

What is a fair way to judge Johnson and Lansdown from now on?

I'd say a top eight finish next season (in this division) is reasonable and some impressive summer signings are essential. A top half finish should be the aim for this season and better relations with fans is crucial for the board. Too much to ask?

[Sir Colby-Tit]

In my opinion anything less than a top six finish next season is unacceptable.

[RedZepperin]

[tin]

In my opinion anything less than a top six finish next season is unacceptable.

Given the standard of the league over the last few years I'd go one better than that and say top four is the minimum we should be aiming for. Nothing more, nothing less IMO.

Lansdown's been a disaster in terms of this and many other for that matter...

[mozo]

And he says it's not the 'end of the story' which I take as a veiled promise that he'll make amends for the Tinnion debacle.

Having reached a low, we need to see major progress, and he might have to make some astute and ambitious signings to appease the fans. I think we can judge both the chairman and the manager on the summer ins and outs.

[Dolman Block B]

So on saturday Lansdown is to answer the questions and concerns of some fans.

His comments in the Post are quite interesting, the issue of 'judging' keeps arising.

The man who famously said 'Judge me on Tinnion's success', now says 'I know I'm being judged on [Tinnion's failure] but it's not the end of the story.'

He also says: 'Gary wanted to build his own side when he came here, and this is now his team. He's being judged on that the same way I'm being judged'

So...without getting drawn into the old debates about dubious decision making, what should we fans expect from this point on?

What is a fair way to judge Johnson and Lansdown from now on?

I'd say a top eight finish next season (in this division) is reasonable and some impressive summer signings are essential. A top half finish should be the aim for this season and better relations with fans is crucial for the board. Too much to ask?

Mozo,

This squad wont get us anywhere next season let alone top half.

Take your point that needs to spend big time in the summer.

If you look closley at the squad, quite few loans, short term contract players and a couple out of contract.

I,d like to see all that lot go, that will smash the wage bill and give him the opp to bring in quality.

Quality gets you promoted, not journeymen or anyone who has no love for our club.

Johnson would have sussed them out by now and ready to ditch.

Problem is BROWN BROOKER ORR i would wont to keep, but I'm worried GJ may not agree.

We,ll wait and see

[Maesknoll Red]

Take your point that needs to spend big time in the summer.

We've spent big and where has it got us, relegation and stagnation in this league. I reckon it's time to give a chance to some hungry youngsters and players with a point to prove, rather than an ego to massage.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I reckon top 6 or a damn good push for it, dependant on crucial injuries, is fair enough. Top 10-12 with significent progress made then I will reassess my judment at the time. Bottom half - unacceptable.

I'm fairly hopeful of top 14 this season.

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God save the Queen, the facist regime....and there's no future, and England's dreaming.

(Sex Pistols - 'God save the Queen)

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[Dolman Block B]

We've spent big and where has it got us, relegation and stagnation in this league. I reckon it's time to give a chance to some hungry youngsters and players with a point to prove, rather than an ego to massage.

I'm up for anything, espec if it gets us up, but the thought of another season in this crappy league.....

[CiderHider]

Steve would be the first to point out he's made some mistakes in the past and he wont shy away from the facts.

I think if you acknowlage your mistakes and are prepaired to discuss them openly with a geniune hope that lessons can be learned for the future then i see nothing wrong with how SL has run, and is running this Club.

Yes we've underachived and that hurts, but we're on the up now with GJ at the helm and next season will see us Champions of this League and have a good cup run, maybe a place in Europe?

OK forget the Europe bit.

[mozo]

Steve would be the first to point out he's made some mistakes in the past and he wont shy away from the facts.

I think if you acknowlage your mistakes and are prepaired to discuss them openly with a geniune hope that lessons can be learned for the future then i see nothing wrong with how SL has run, and is running this Club.

Yes we've underachived and that hurts, but we're on the up now with GJ at the helm and next season will see us Champions of this League and have a good cup run, maybe a place in Europe?

OK forget the Europe bit.

I'm sure he would and I this is not intended to be a 'Steve L's a git' thread (I promise, Badger!).

For the record, Steve has a very difficult job, he undoubtedly loves the club and I don't underestimate the hard work he puts in. He is a very good businessman (which will work for and against him in this role) and whether he is a good football chairman is yet to be judged by myself.

But his aim has always been promotion the Championship, and we fans of course constantly reassess our expectations.

In the next twelve months we should see an improvement in the transfer market as well as on the pitch or I'll be really disappointed personally.

Surely promotion next year expecting too much?

[Tunley Legend]

Has it escaped some of you people out there that the club are around £10 million in the red? That seems like pretty big spending for a Third Division club to me. Because of the crackpot spending policy of the people in charge over the last few seasons (e.g. £250,000 per year and £50K per goal strikers), numerous transfer fees and signing on fees for mediocre journeymen players like Partridge and Dinning we now have a club that is skint, with a Chairman setting up a separate holding company for the ground, with only two people on it's Board of Directors and fast on the road to becoming Reading's feeder club. Lansdown has to take his fair share of the flak for that. Where is the money going to come from? Do you want Lansdown and Dawe to pump more DEBT AT 2% ABOVE BARCLAYS BASE RATE into the club? When will it end? That's easy, when we cannot afford to keep up the leaseback repayments on Ashton Gate resulting in no football club being left. The only thing left then will be Lansdown, Dawe and a few acres of prime real estate. Is that what you all want?

I firmly belive that Gary Johnson has been acquired to get us promoted with the bare minimum outlay - i.e. achieve what he managed at Yeovil. Most other managers would have wanted a few quid to spend in order to bring success and I think that Johnson is one of the few who backs himself to spot "cheap" players, use the Academy and get them winning football matches. Time will tell on that one but I really think a few of you need to come back to the real world. This club is not going to be splashing big cash for years.

[mozo]

Has it escaped some of you people out there that the club are around £10 million in the red? That seems like pretty big spending for a Third Division club to me. Because of the crackpot spending policy of the people in charge over the last few seasons...

I firmly belive that Gary Johnson has been acquired to get us promoted with the bare minimum outlay - i.e. achieve what he managed at Yeovil. This club is not going to be splashing big cash for years.

So I take your point to be that because of bad spending previously the board will have no way of appeasing the fans.

This meaning that unless GJ works miracles (very shrewd signings indeed!) and we get lucky, there will continue to be underacheiving, unhappy fans and an under-pressure manager. Doesn't sound too nice.

So Greebo, will you judge the boss and board on promotion or not?

[Tunley Legend]

So I take your point to be that because of bad spending previously the board will have no way of appeasing the fans.

This meaning that unless GJ works miracles (very shrewd signings indeed!) and we get lucky, there will continue to be underacheiving, unhappy fans and an under-pressure manager. Doesn't sound too nice.

So Greebo, will you judge the boss and board on promotion or not?

This season I will judge Johnson on avoiding relegation, pure and simple. Next season I want to see some decent football (for the first time in at least three years) and a team who challenge for and probably make the play-offs. Once you make the play-offs that is a lottery so I wouldn't criticise too heavily if we lost in those. I think it is possible to spend little money and still get out of this league because teams have been doing it for years (I won't bore you - you know the names), particularly if you have some decent youngsters coming through.

As for the Board - I will judge them on their ability to run the club on sensible financial means whilst trying to help Johnson financially where possible, reduce the debt, nullify the possibility of the football club having to lease the ground in the future and attract investment to the club.

Unfortunately, on the above criteria, I have a lot higher hopes for Johnson than I do the Board!!

[Mr Mosquito]

Has it escaped some of you people out there that the club are around £10 million in the red? That seems like pretty big spending for a Third Division club to me. Because of the crackpot spending policy of the people in charge over the last few seasons (e.g. £250,000 per year and £50K per goal strikers), numerous transfer fees and signing on fees for mediocre journeymen players like Partridge and Dinning we now have a club that is skint, with a Chairman setting up a separate holding company for the ground, with only two people on it's Board of Directors and fast on the road to becoming Reading's feeder club. Lansdown has to take his fair share of the flak for that. Where is the money going to come from? Do you want Lansdown and Dawe to pump more DEBT AT 2% ABOVE BARCLAYS BASE RATE into the club? When will it end? That's easy, when we cannot afford to keep up the leaseback repayments on Ashton Gate resulting in no football club being left. The only thing left then will be Lansdown, Dawe and a few acres of prime real estate. Is that what you all want?

I firmly belive that Gary Johnson has been acquired to get us promoted with the bare minimum outlay - i.e. achieve what he managed at Yeovil. Most other managers would have wanted a few quid to spend in order to bring success and I think that Johnson is one of the few who backs himself to spot "cheap" players, use the Academy and get them winning football matches. Time will tell on that one but I really think a few of you need to come back to the real world. This club is not going to be splashing big cash for years.

An excellent post from Greebo. A pure and simple summary of Greebo's post is that this club is in a dire mess and it's rubbish management form board and managers since Scott Davidson and John Ward that's got us in the mess we're currently in.

[cider head]

it will be like the prime ministers question time,

a lot of hot air going backwards and fowards with no end product

good questions and good answers, bad questions and bad answers,

after all the chat nothing gets done.

[mozo]

An excellent post from Greebo. A pure and simple summary of Greebo's post is that this club is in a dire mess and it's rubbish management form board and managers since Scott Davidson and John Ward that's got us in the mess we're currently in.

That may be so, but this thread is about future expectations, what are yours Goblin?

[Chappers]

Future expectations? Get the Club on a more even Financial keel and hope that we somehow manage to get promoted. If we are too far in debt, even if we go up, staying up might be a problem. In truth, my expectations are another 30 years of misery and under-achievement.......

One point on GJ, Yeovil were hardly a 'shoestring' Conference Club, they had been close to going up for a number of years and had crowds well in excess of the average, and even by 4th Division standards their crowds were above average.

[Rednready]

Lets summerize the thread.

1. It was stated on the BCFC board that there would be 1 or 2 good signings in the summer, add to that 5 academy signings, plus perhaps Fontaine, Big Mac, and Green/Andrews. Thats a possible 7/9 new squad players. IMO considering our debt, thats the way to go

2. SL and GJ have called their shots and the above looks likely and realistic. Then it comes down to coaching, fitness, motivation and tactics. It can work.

3. The other option for the SL out brigade, is how much and who ? Has anyone posted a figure as to how much it would cost to buy out Lansdown and Dawe. I've not heard a figure from any poster, or a suggestion as to who or when.

4. I have had 2 calls as to several individuals who may or may not be interested in an involvement at seasons end. All conjecture, and it will take hard cash and a lot of negotiating.

5. The ST wants a say in the club , but there's no gaurentee a new major shareholder would be interested in their involvement. Why would they. A multi million outlay, and then have to negotiate with a self appointed body of fans. Not likely, but politically possible ?

[Bristol Boy]

Results-The manager.

Financial stability for the future-The Chairman.

Square That Circle and we've cracked it

[citylad21]

With good signings, we should realistically be pushing for a play-off spot next season.

Could we afford Fontaine?

[mozo]

Results-The manager.

Financial stability for the future-The Chairman.

Square That Circle and we've cracked it

I think you might be oversimplifying things there Bristol Boy, you missed a couple of factors out of the equation but I can't argue with your logic.

[One Team In Keynsham]

Results-The manager.

Financial stability for the future-The Chairman.

Square That Circle and we've cracked it

Surely squaring a circle deprives you of a circle and leaves you with just a square. Which do we actually need?

In my opinion, if we don't get this brook babbling we are going to be left looking like doe-eyed labradors.

[WTFiGO!?!]

Surely squaring a circle deprives you of a circle and leaves you with just a square. Which do we actually need?

In my opinion, if we don't get this brook babbling we are going to be left looking like doe-eyed labradors.

If we're going to survive and prosper then surely what we really need is a bloody triangle! No? Anyone got a problem with my logic?

I'd prefer to be left looking like red eyed cormanrants tbh or even pi55ed up orangatangs (although that would return us to the same problem as the labradors - bit on the ginger side of the great ginger divide for my liking.)

I put it to the floor....

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...they're coming to take me away ha ha, they're coming to take me away ho ho, he he, ha ha, to the funny farm, where life is beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats and they're coming to take me away ha ha...('The Funny Farm' - Dr Demento)

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[sparkyboy72]

Has it escaped some of you people out there that the club are around £10 million in the red? That seems like pretty big spending for a Third Division club to me. Because of the crackpot spending policy of the people in charge over the last few seasons (e.g. £250,000 per year and £50K per goal strikers), numerous transfer fees and signing on fees for mediocre journeymen players like Partridge and Dinning we now have a club that is skint, with a Chairman setting up a separate holding company for the ground, with only two people on it's Board of Directors and fast on the road to becoming Reading's feeder club. Lansdown has to take his fair share of the flak for that. Where is the money going to come from? Do you want Lansdown and Dawe to pump more DEBT AT 2% ABOVE BARCLAYS BASE RATE into the club? When will it end? That's easy, when we cannot afford to keep up the leaseback repayments on Ashton Gate resulting in no football club being left. The only thing left then will be Lansdown, Dawe and a few acres of prime real estate. Is that what you all want?

I firmly belive that Gary Johnson has been acquired to get us promoted with the bare minimum outlay - i.e. achieve what he managed at Yeovil. Most other managers would have wanted a few quid to spend in order to bring success and I think that Johnson is one of the few who backs himself to spot "cheap" players, use the Academy and get them winning football matches. Time will tell on that one but I really think a few of you need to come back to the real world. This club is not going to be splashing big cash for years.

Firstly good post mate.

Firstly what can expect from the summer, well there is numerous things that i can see happening

1. GJ is going to have a summer clear out and its not just going to be reserves that go, "As stated above" we are losing money like a leaky watering can at the mo and before any money is going to be made available costs have to be cut.

So players i can see going is Murray, Stewart, Phillips, Wiltshire ( Out of Contract ), Russell, Smith, Heywood, Savage ( Out of Contract ) to name but a few.

2. SL has about 250,000 burning a hole in his pocket at the mo, and i think that will be GJ's transfer budget for next season, there will be no big names or has been's, its going to be youth players released from other clubs and the emergence into the first team of maybe 4 players from the youth ranks to the first team.

3. Now to boost the coffers as much as i hate to say it, i think Brooker and Cotterill will go, Cott's with a big sell on clause and around 500,000 - 750,000 for Brooks. ( FINGERS CROSSED THAT IT don't HAPPEN )

OK this is what i think might happen, so let the slating begin.

CTID

[Chappers]

I think you might be right, except that I can see Savage being retained.

[mozo]

Firstly good post mate.

Firstly what can expect from the summer, well there is numerous things that i can see happening

1. GJ is going to have a summer clear out and its not just going to be reserves that go, "As stated above" we are losing money like a leaky watering can at the mo and before any money is going to be made available costs have to be cut.

So players i can see going is Murray, Stewart, Phillips, Wiltshire ( Out of Contract ), Russell, Smith, Heywood, Savage ( Out of Contract ) to name but a few.

2. SL has about 250,000 burning a hole in his pocket at the mo, and i think that will be GJ's transfer budget for next season, there will be no big names or has been's, its going to be youth players released from other clubs and the emergence into the first team of maybe 4 players from the youth ranks to the first team.

3. Now to boost the coffers as much as i hate to say it, i think Brooker and Cotterill will go, Cott's with a big sell on clause and around 500,000 - 750,000 for Brooks. ( FINGERS CROSSED THAT IT don't HAPPEN )

OK this is what i think might happen, so let the slating begin.

CTID

What would your opinion of the board/manager be if that happened? Do they have a choice?

[sparkyboy72]

Maybe but i think Jennison Williams might take his slot, but hey its only hearsay

What would your opinion of the board/manager be if that happened? Do they have a choice?

With our current financial constraints i cant see there being any other way of going, but would hate to see Brook's and Cott's go though. As for my opinion if i can see we are improving both on the pitch and financially i would back the Board and Manager

[mozo]

Maybe but i think Jennison Williams might take his slot, but hey its only hearsay

If that's the word on the street I hope it's true, I want Williams to break through this season and get his first full season in next year, preferably as our natural left-winger. I'll judge GJ on his ability to manage young Williams that's for sure.

[sparkyboy72]

If that's the word on the street I hope it's true, I want Williams to break through this season and get his first full season in next year, preferably as our natural left-winger. I'll judge GJ on his ability to manage young Williams that's for sure.

As i said before mate just my opinion