Drawing A Foul

[mozo]

The boys on Sky's Goals On Sunday were talking to Don Hutchison about 'drawing fouls'.

Basically they were saying that it isn't cheating if you gain a free kick/penalty by falling to the ground when you feel contact.

Big Don distinguished it from cheating by defining a 'dive' as hitting the ground when there is not contact.

Do we agree?

It's part of the modern game and it's unlikely to change but if you fall to ground without having had sufficient force applied by the opposing player to do so, aren't you conning the ref? Should that be considered cheating?

I watched the Real Madrid-Valencia game and players were 'drawing fouls' not just in the box but all over the pitch. It was constant. The ref was clearly content to accept that any contact was deserving of a foul, strange for a contact sport. Pablo Aimar was the worst, he fell down at every challenge and looked completely bewildered on the one or two occasions when he didn't get the decision.

Are we lucky to be league one fans? It seems the higher up the football echelons, the less the game resembles how football should be - a contact sport.

[Guest HampshireCider]

The boys on Sky's Goals On Sunday were talking to Don Hutchison about 'drawing fouls'.

Basically they were saying that it isn't cheating if you gain a free kick/penalty by falling to the ground when you feel contact.

Big Don distinguished it from cheating by defining a 'dive' as hitting the ground when there is not contact.

Do we agree?

It's part of the modern game and it's unlikely to change but if you fall to ground without having had sufficient force applied by the opposing player to do so, aren't you conning the ref? Should that be considered cheating?

I watched the Real Madrid-Valencia game and players were 'drawing fouls' not just in the box but all over the pitch. It was constant. The ref was clearly content to accept that any contact was deserving of a foul, strange for a contact sport. Pablo Aimar was the worst, he fell down at every challenge and looked completely bewildered on the one or two occasions when he didn't get the decision.

Are we lucky to be league one fans? It seems the higher up the football echelons, the less the game resembles how football should be - a contact sport.

It just seems as soon as we try to stamp diving out of football then along comes a new way to get around it, Yes if you are "bumped into" or "clipped" by an opponent in the box or a goal scoring oppitunity then you are within your rights to go down, but all this "drawing fouls" will become rediculous! (as you said with players doing it even in their own half!) but to be honest there is really no way to stop it with out making games longer with costant replays and ref-linesman conferring. i really do hate the way football in the prem is played and it seems that learning to fall well is now as an important attribute as the stepover! where have all the "hardmen" gone?? the ones who would be embarrassed to have gone to ground under the littlest of contact!

[mozo]

It just seems as soon as we try to stamp diving out of football then along comes a new way to get around it, Yes if you are "bumped into" or "clipped" by an opponent in the box or a goal scoring oppitunity then you are within your rights to go down, but all this "drawing fouls" will become rediculous! (as you said with players doing it even in their own half!) but to be honest there is really no way to stop it with out making games longer with costant replays and ref-linesman conferring. i really do hate the way football in the prem is played and it seems that learning to fall well is now as an important attribute as the stepover! where have all the "hardmen" gone?? the ones who would be embarrassed to have gone to ground under the littlest of contact!

You're right it seems pretty hopeless. In's in the hands of the refs though. If the refs think that someone has played for the foul they don't have to give it. They could also, as a rule, give the benefit of the doubt to the player making the challenge which could over time make football more physical (how it once was). The powers that be wouldn't allow that but it would make the game better!

[Guest Ron]

The boys on Sky's Goals On Sunday were talking to Don Hutchison about 'drawing fouls'.

Basically they were saying that it isn't cheating if you gain a free kick/penalty by falling to the ground when you feel contact.

Big Don distinguished it from cheating by defining a 'dive' as hitting the ground when there is not contact.

Do we agree?

It's part of the modern game and it's unlikely to change but if you fall to ground without having had sufficient force applied by the opposing player to do so, aren't you conning the ref? Should that be considered cheating?

I watched the Real Madrid-Valencia game and players were 'drawing fouls' not just in the box but all over the pitch. It was constant. The ref was clearly content to accept that any contact was deserving of a foul, strange for a contact sport. Pablo Aimar was the worst, he fell down at every challenge and looked completely bewildered on the one or two occasions when he didn't get the decision.

Are we lucky to be league one fans? It seems the higher up the football echelons, the less the game resembles how football should be - a contact sport.

Great example of this - Abikinyi playing for Sheff United last week, I think it was at Crewe, was knocked in the box but stayed on his feet, determined to score. He didn't, the ref gave nothing and a deserved penalty was deprived of United. if he had felt contact and gone down, no one would have been any the wiser, and the team would have had a deserved penalty and probably a lead. I see no problem with this.

[Guest HampshireCider]

Great example of this - Abikinyi playing for Sheff United last week, I think it was at Crewe, was knocked in the box but stayed on his feet, determined to score. He didn't, the ref gave nothing and a deserved penalty was deprived of United. if he had felt contact and gone down, no one would have been any the wiser, and the team would have had a deserved penalty and probably a lead. I see no problem with this.

Does anyone remember the robbie folwer pen a few years agao?? I'm sure it was in his first spell at liverpool.

he went down in the box and the ref instantly pointed to the spot despite robbie claiming that he was not pushed and just slipped over. I'm sure the penalty was taken and scored too, although I'm sure folwer didnt want it taken.

[mozo]

Great example of this - Abikinyi playing for Sheff United last week, I think it was at Crewe, was knocked in the box but stayed on his feet, determined to score. He didn't, the ref gave nothing and a deserved penalty was deprived of United. if he had felt contact and gone down, no one would have been any the wiser, and the team would have had a deserved penalty and probably a lead. I see no problem with this.

Very good example.

But are we missing the point? Why should a player have to go down? A foul's a foul surely? Are refs that incompetent that they need players to spell it out to them?

Maybe Akinbiyi should receive some sort of fair play award rather than be encouraged to fall and hopefully the referee was criticised for his decision.

I hate the idea that 'contact' is a foul. Since when is that football?

Does anyone remember the robbie folwer pen a few years agao?? I'm sure it was in his first spell at liverpool.

he went down in the box and the ref instantly pointed to the spot despite robbie claiming that he was not pushed and just slipped over. I'm sure the penalty was taken and scored too, although I'm sure folwer didnt want it taken.

How commendable is that! Good on him.

[Nibor]

Great example of this - Abikinyi playing for Sheff United last week, I think it was at Crewe, was knocked in the box but stayed on his feet, determined to score. He didn't, the ref gave nothing and a deserved penalty was deprived of United. if he had felt contact and gone down, no one would have been any the wiser, and the team would have had a deserved penalty and probably a lead. I see no problem with this.

I thought the referee made a poor decision there, Akinbiyi was impeded, it was a foul whether he goes down or not.

The thing is with this it's all or nothing. If players fall over like fairies all the time then on the rare occasion when a player is fouled but stays up the ref has a very hard call to make, and usually will err on the side of caution because 9 times out of 10 the player would have gone down. The thing is, yes in this instance Akinbiyi was denied a penalty - but how many times have we seen unfair penalties won by diving and players sent off because of it? If diving and play acting was punished properly then perhaps players would make an honest attempt to carry on playing?

For me the answer is simple. What is better to watch? 11 vs 11 players giving it their all, or 11 vs 10 with the game won and decided by a first half penalty and sending off?

Nibor

[tommy doc]

Does anyone remember the robbie folwer pen a few years agao?? I'm sure it was in his first spell at liverpool.

he went down in the box and the ref instantly pointed to the spot despite robbie claiming that he was not pushed and just slipped over. I'm sure the penalty was taken and scored too, although I'm sure folwer didnt want it taken.

Surely fowler must have wanted the penalty taken as he took it himself (i think.) He missed, and McAteer scored the rebound (i think.)

[i remember dickie rooks]

I thought the referee made a poor decision there, Akinbiyi was impeded, it was a foul whether he goes down or not.

The thing is with this it's all or nothing. If players fall over like fairies all the time then on the rare occasion when a player is fouled but stays up the ref has a very hard call to make, and usually will err on the side of caution because 9 times out of 10 the player would have gone down. The thing is, yes in this instance Akinbiyi was denied a penalty - but how many times have we seen unfair penalties won by diving and players sent off because of it? If diving and play acting was punished properly then perhaps players would make an honest attempt to carry on playing?

For me the answer is simple. What is better to watch? 11 vs 11 players giving it their all, or 11 vs 10 with the game won and decided by a first half penalty and sending off?

Nibor

What made it worse was Warnock gave him a right b***king as they walked off the field for not falling over.

[Guest HampshireCider]

Surely fowler must have wanted the penalty taken as he took it himself (i think.) He missed, and McAteer scored the rebound (i think.)

well i couldnt quite remember the outcome of it, i knoe fowler protested to the ref that he wasnt clipped but being the pen taker at the time I'm sure he couldnt refuse to take it. i was pretty sure it was scored though, just couldnt rememer by who.