Progress?

[Ian M]

When GJ first arrived he talked about seeing "progress" and also that he viewed games in "blocks of ten".

Looking at his League record since arriving, his record in those "blocks" is outlined below.

1st Block of 10: W3 D0 L7 Pts 9

2nd Block of 10: W4 D4 L2 Pts 16

3rd Block of 10 (2 to go): W4 D2 L2 Pts 14

With a home game against Gillingham and an away at Rotherham I am fairly confident of picking up the 3 points required to improve upon the 2nd block.

If we can maintain this "progress" until we reach a level that we are happy to stay at (it can't continue indefinitely as if we picked up 30 points during a block it would be pretty difficult to improve upon) then things will look good for next season.

[RedZepperin]

When GJ first arrived he talked about seeing "progress" and also that he viewed games in "blocks of ten".

Looking at his League record since arriving, his record in those "blocks" is outlined below.

1st Block of 10: W3 D0 L7 Pts 9

2nd Block of 10: W4 D4 L2 Pts 16

3rd Block of 10 (2 to go): W4 D2 L2 Pts 14

With a home game against Gillingham and an away at Rotherham I am fairly confident of picking up the 3 points required to improve upon the 2nd block.

If we can maintain this "progress" until we reach a level that we are happy to stay at (it can't continue indefinitely as if we picked up 30 points during a block it would be pretty difficult to improve upon) then things will look good for next season.

Madge, for a moment there I considered joining in on this "let's analyse Johnson's results in blocks of ten" exercise but then I wondered whether you were on some anoraky wind-up.

I'll pass.

[milo1111]

When GJ first arrived he talked about seeing "progress" and also that he viewed games in "blocks of ten".

Looking at his League record since arriving, his record in those "blocks" is outlined below.

1st Block of 10: W3 D0 L7 Pts 9

2nd Block of 10: W4 D4 L2 Pts 16

3rd Block of 10 (2 to go): W4 D2 L2 Pts 14

With a home game against Gillingham and an away at Rotherham I am fairly confident of picking up the 3 points required to improve upon the 2nd block.

If we can maintain this "progress" until we reach a level that we are happy to stay at (it can't continue indefinitely as if we picked up 30 points during a block it would be pretty difficult to improve upon) then things will look good for next season.

i think its pretty obvious that there has been an improvement in what we have now compared to what team we had when GJ arrived. mainly in terms of fitness, application, comittment and tactical awareness. our defence was a laughing stock, especially at set pieces but now we look solid. carey is playing his best football for us IMO, and fontaine looks the part.

as long as we continue improving up to a point where we finally gain promotion at some point within the next few years then that is all most of us sane fans can ask.

this club has been a soft touch for years. there was obviously going to be a massive back lash for the man who tried to stamp that out, the evidence of that being the 9 game run when the players did look up for it. the question was, would that man survive this backlash. GJ has (SL stuck by him big time) and IMO we look stronger now than at any time since roberts scored against the monkey hangers in the PO's.

ive heard that although not all the players are 'best friends' with GJ they all respect him, or at the very least know what is expected of them in terms of their behaviour across the board, and they all know that if they step out of line they will be in trouble. hence they are acting professionally. a new concept at our club

[PhatWill]

Clearly the stats show that nothing other than progress has been made under Johnson.

3 losses in our last 17 also tells its own story - and those 3 defeats (2 of them away from home) have all come against teams currently in the top 6.

This topic should be pinned to the top of the forum and locked - as there is nothing more to add.

[Bristol Boy]

Interesting stuff.

I prefer to look at the overall record (All Games Played) which takes into account highs & lows as, in any ten game run you can have rotten bad luck, six away games & injuries.

I am more confident now, but we need two goal scoring strikers (GJ said so himself on World) and better contributions for wide players, midfielders and even defenders.

Much will depend on our dealings in the close season.

When we have a side that sees 40 goals between the front two strikers, 20 from the two wide players, ten from the defence and 10 from our central midfield, coupled with GJ's work ethic, fitness & organisation, then I will be more confident that we can escape this division.

We need to kill sides off when we're on top.That'll turn draws into wins.

I'm optimistic but not ready to gamble the house on promotion next season

[Nibor]

Clearly the stats show that nothing other than progress has been made under Johnson.

3 losses in our last 17 also tells its own story - and those 3 defeats (2 of them away from home) have all come against teams currently in the top 6.

This topic should be pinned to the top of the forum and locked - as there is nothing more to add.

I sincerely hope you're fishing because you really can't be that naive?

The stats show nothing other than stats. Anyone can use them to prove anything they like. Segmenting the results into blocks of ten (even though Johnson did indeed say that's how he works) is artificial. If we lose the next two games have we gone backward since January? The stats will say so, if you look at them like this.

I don't think we're making any sort of progress this season, we're merely clearing up the mess that the first half of the season debacle left us in. We won't achieve anything this year other than surviving. In my view Johnson's done some things right and some things wrong, and it's too early to say he is or isn't what we need. This current side would be thoroughly thrashed by the one that failed to get promoted for Wilson twice in his last two years, and next year this division will be tougher so there's a long long way to go. For me, a lot will depend on the sort of team he puts together in the summer and the way we start next season.

Nibor

[PhatWill]

Interesting stuff.

I prefer to look at the overall record (All Games Played) which takes into account highs & lows as, in any ten game run you can have rotten bad luck, six away games & injuries.

In all those 3 blocks of 10 games there have been 5 home and 5 away.

Looking at Johnson's overall record will not help you analyse PROGRESS, which is what Madge;s stats have done here...

I'm not saying don't look at his overall record as clearly that's important, but it's separate from what's been shown in this instance.

For the remainder of this season it will be interesting to see how we fair against the better sides in this division - namely Southend and Oldham. I'd count Tranmere away as a tough fixture too.

Nibor - I said 'the stats' show that progress has been under Johnson. I wasn't neccessarily referring to Madgers take on it.

To look at our current league position, and points accumulated so far under Johnson and say 'that's progress' is hardly naive. It's common sense. That said, obviously I feel there are a host of other reasons why I predict we will go places with Johnson.

[Nibor]

Nibor - I said 'the stats' show that progress has been under Johnson. I wasn't neccessarily referring to Madgers take on it.

To look at our current league position, and points accumulated so far under Johnson and say 'that's progress' is hardly naive. It's common sense. That said, obviously I feel there are a host of other reasons why I predict we will go places with Johnson.

It all depends on your point of view.

Looking at our current league position and points total so far under Johnson I would say it's no progress at all on last season. P28 W11 D6 L11 = 1.4 points per game. Last season we averaged 1.5. Have we gone backward? I don't think we have but the only thing that matters is the chunk of 46 games that represents a league season, you don't get promoted for topping the form charts for a month.

My main point was that it's a bit premature for you to be claiming that Johnson's a clear success and there's nothing more to add to the debate.

I agree there is reason for hope but there's just as much reason for caution.

Nibor

[PhatWill]

It all depends on your point of view.

Looking at our current league position and points total so far under Johnson I would say it's no progress at all on last season. P28 W11 D6 L11 = 1.4 points per game. Last season we averaged 1.5. Have we gone backward? I don't think we have but the only thing that matters is the chunk of 46 games that represents a league season, you don't get promoted for topping the form charts for a month.

My main point was that it's a bit premature for you to be claiming that Johnson's a clear success and there's nothing more to add to the debate.

I agree there is reason for hope but there's just as much reason for caution.

Nibor

I'm not saying we've progressed since last season. I'm saying that given the context of this season we are now in a position to say that results under Johnson as well as team performance have improved since the start of the season under Tinnion, and indeed even since Xmas when we first went on a decent run under Johnson.

I'm not speculating as to whether we will keep improving and winning more games, but I think there's a strong arguement (of which the stats are apart of!) to suggest that progress has therefore been made.

Also your 'main point' is based on something I didn't say 'claiming that Johnson's a clear success' and something I said in jest 'nothing more to add to the debate'.

[Pickle Rick]

When GJ first arrived he talked about seeing "progress" and also that he viewed games in "blocks of ten".

Looking at his League record since arriving, his record in those "blocks" is outlined below.

1st Block of 10: W3 D0 L7 Pts 9

2nd Block of 10: W4 D4 L2 Pts 16

3rd Block of 10 (2 to go): W4 D2 L2 Pts 14

With a home game against Gillingham and an away at Rotherham I am fairly confident of picking up the 3 points required to improve upon the 2nd block.

If we can maintain this "progress" until we reach a level that we are happy to stay at (it can't continue indefinitely as if we picked up 30 points during a block it would be pretty difficult to improve upon) then things will look good for next season.

I think thats enough proof that we have progressed under GJ for all the doubters to quit moaning (Robbored ) and say he isn't good enough.

IMO GJ is the man to take us up, I believe this is going to be next year if we keep our squad together. Maybe add a left winger? I would like someone like Kevin Mcleod, powerful and pacey!

GJ is the man! Best manger we've had for a while me thinks

[Bristol Boy]

In all those 3 blocks of 10 games there have been 5 home and 5 away.

Looking at Johnson's overall record will not help you analyse PROGRESS,

Of course it will.We were bottom of the League when he arrived and we're in the top half now.That's progress in anyones books.His overall record has created that however, as some people have said, it depends if you're looking to progress or if you want real success and, in any league, that can only be measured by promotion or at least qualifying for the play offs.

which is what Madge;s stats have done here...

I understand that

I'm not saying don't look at his overall record as clearly that's important, but it's separate from what's been shown in this instance.

I know.

For the remainder of this season it will be interesting to see how we fair against the better sides in this division - namely Southend and Oldham. I'd count Tranmere away as a tough fixture too.

Agreed

Nibor - I said 'the stats' show that progress has been under Johnson. I wasn't neccessarily referring to Madgers take on it.

To look at our current league position, and points accumulated so far under Johnson and say 'that's progress' is hardly naive. It's common sense. That said, obviously I feel there are a host of other reasons why I predict we will go places with Johnson.

I say, let's see:

a.Where we are in May.

b.What happens in the close season.

c.How we start next season.

The final judgement will be if we gain promotion from League 2 and a decent cup run wouldn't go amiss for fans & financial reasons.

Then we can judge properly.

At the moment I can say that I'm happier than I was a couple of months ago.We've a long way to go.

[Guest Ron]

I don't think we're making any sort of progress this season, we're merely clearing up the mess that the first half of the season debacle left us in.

This is true, but can you say the football we were playing last season is better than we have recently? So surely progress is finally being made?

[Nibor]

This is true, but can you say the football we were playing last season is better than we have recently? So surely progress is finally being made?

We took steps backwards under Tinnion. We took more steps backward under Johnson. We've made one or two steps forward more recently, but we're still a long way behind where we were before we lost in Cardiff. There are various reasons for that and they've been done to death - we are where we are.

If you call that progress then yes it is. I can't say that I think it is. Whether we've actually 'turned the corner' noone really knows, we've turned plenty of them this season after all. I think it's too early to know if our half decent form is really the start of something or not, and it's not worth making any judgements until a fair way into next season. When Johnson's been in the job a year, bearing in mind he's been allowed to make massive changes to the squad and been supported by one of the division's largest budgets, we will see what he's all about. Obviously I hope he does well, I'm just not yet convinced.

Nibor

[Chivs]

Madge, for a moment there I considered joining in on this "let's analyse Johnson's results in blocks of ten" exercise but then I wondered whether you were on some anoraky wind-up.

I'll pass.

I think I can out-anorak Madger. It seems to me, at the danger of sounding a little square, that the 3rd block of games should result in 25pts. This clearly isn't going to happen. So, I have conclusively proved that progress isn't being made. (No need to thank me Robbored - it's all in the numbers!)

[Tunley Legend]

I say, let's see:

a.Where we are in May.

b.What happens in the close season.

c.How we start next season.

The final judgement will be if we gain promotion from League 2 and a decent cup run wouldn't go amiss for fans & financial reasons.

Then we can judge properly.

At the moment I can say that I'm happier than I was a couple of months ago.We've a long way to go.

Call me pedantic but I would much prefer promotion from "League 1" next season!!

[arpaul]

When GJ first arrived he talked about seeing "progress" and also that he viewed games in "blocks of ten".

Looking at his League record since arriving, his record in those "blocks" is outlined below.

1st Block of 10: W3 D0 L7 Pts 9

2nd Block of 10: W4 D4 L2 Pts 16

3rd Block of 10 (2 to go): W4 D2 L2 Pts 14

With a home game against Gillingham and an away at Rotherham I am fairly confident of picking up the 3 points required to improve upon the 2nd block.

If we can maintain this "progress" until we reach a level that we are happy to stay at (it can't continue indefinitely as if we picked up 30 points during a block it would be pretty difficult to improve upon) then things will look good for next season.

Is it OK to show Tinnions results along with the above so that Robbored can actually see the improvement ? or will it upset certain members of the forum?

P7 W1 D3 L3 Pts 6

However, not sure if his computer will translate into braille!!

Apologies to anyone who may take offence to my last comment. No malice intended!!

[lotusman]

Blocks of ten,eight,twenty,three,sixty six, all pretty academic. Sure a measurement of time to achieve goals is good basic management requirement.

This season will rate as one of the poorest in the clubs history,a massive under-achievement in the league, early exits in all three cup competitions,managerial upheaval, a run of results only matched by those when our club was at its lowest ebb 20 years ago.

Our manager has proved to be resiliant whether he has enough of all the other qualities needed to take the club forward only time will tell? Indeed ,quite what will be next seasons objective in most fans eyes?

[WTFiGO!?!]

I reckon he's done alright.

Was never going to be a miracle worker was he?

The bloke done ok.

Progress off the field is my main concern.

What are peoples thoughts on the ST?

Would be interested to know.

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Win or lose, sink or swim, one thing is certain we'll never give in, arm in arm, hand in hand, we all stand together.....

('We All Stand Together' - Paul McCartney)

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Top 6 maximum Lotusman for me.

[deadratinmycider]

I think Johnson has instilled a team spirit, one that was clearly not in evidence early in the season.

The jury is still out in my eye's as to how successful we could be under his reign, but the last 20 games have been a vast improvement from the beginning of the season under Tinman, and when Johnson first took over.

There were games when the team looked 11 strangers, not a game plan in sight and a team completely devoid of ideas. That has been addressed and we are now solid, committed and look like a team. GJ went back to basics and now the hard work starts from here, developing the basics into a promotion challenging side.

Anyone thinking we'll be in the top 2 next season is being extremely optimistic, top 6 would be a huge success for me.

[bucksred]

Without two more PROPER strikers, any progress will be fleeting. See what GJ gets in the summer to back Brookerman up, before you make judgements.

At least its not Tinmans *ahem* "team" anymore.