Bas (not Basso)

[Markman]

Bas? An enigma? He does make me laugh, I wish him well - he probably did contribute (a bit) to the result with his "effort" - but he is a striker. Well, actually - no he is not.

Had it been grim and were drawing or losing - some of Bas's efforts on goal are simply hopeless and he would not be tolerated - we must judge him as a striker - the same way Stewart gets slaughtered for a lack of goals - I don't quite see why Bas gets away with it and even has a large support from our following (I am not saying we should heckle him - and I do try to give him the benefit of the large doubt) - but with 2 strikers we could have had even more goals.

Seriously - if you rate Bas - can you defend his perfomances as a striker - forget that we all kind of like him and wish him well - does he deliver?

I can't see it.

[Tunley Legend]

Bas? An enigma? He does make me laugh, I wish him well - he probably did contribute (a bit) to the result with his "effort" - but he is a striker. Well, actually - no he is not.

Had it been grim and were drawing or losing - some of Bas's efforts on goal are simply hopeless and he would not be tolerated - we must judge him as a striker - the same way Stewart gets slaughtered for a lack of goals - I don't quite see why Bas gets away with it and even has a large support from our following (I am not saying we should heckle him - and I do try to give him the benefit of the large doubt) - but with 2 strikers we could have had even more goals.

Seriously - if you rate Bas - can you defend his perfomances as a striker - forget that we all kind of like him and wish him well - does he deliver?

I can't see it.

Savage is most definitely an enigma in that over 90 minutes he does make some good contributions to the game (the amount of times he holds the ball up and gets it to a red shirt is not a fluke) but as you quite correctly say he does not offer a goal threat. I have a sneaking feeling that because he probably comes cheap Johnson may well gamble and give him another year to prove himself one way or the other. That said he needs to spend the entire summer learning how to strike a moving ball properly. It is obvious that if his goal threat does not show signs of improvement then he will not get a place in a team looking to be at the right end of the table next season.

[no1cityfan_tucks]

Bas? An enigma? He does make me laugh, I wish him well - he probably did contribute (a bit) to the result with his "effort" - but he is a striker. Well, actually - no he is not.

Had it been grim and were drawing or losing - some of Bas's efforts on goal are simply hopeless and he would not be tolerated - we must judge him as a striker - the same way Stewart gets slaughtered for a lack of goals - I don't quite see why Bas gets away with it and even has a large support from our following (I am not saying we should heckle him - and I do try to give him the benefit of the large doubt) - but with 2 strikers we could have had even more goals.

Seriously - if you rate Bas - can you defend his perfomances as a striker - forget that we all kind of like him and wish him well - does he deliver?

I can't see it.

I don't think its a matter of rating him! Yes a striker should score goals, and Bas does not. But... he does contribute alot in bulidup play. I do like him, but as a long term option. i.e further than this season, he is not the answer.

I do see his as a good back up to someone like Brooker and could be useful in physical games, where someone like Stewart perhaps may not, but would affect a footballing game.

[slartibartfast]

I don't think its a matter of rating him! Yes a striker should score goals, and Bas does not. But... he does contribute alot in bulidup play. I do like him, but as a long term option. i.e further than this season, he is not the answer.

I do see his as a good back up to someone like Brooker and could be useful in physical games, where someone like Stewart perhaps may not, but would affect a footballing game.

I wish he'd

show less commitment & effort, then I could have a go at him!!

[Ben4BCFC]

The bare basics are, and I don't see how anyone can argue with this, he isn't a striker with goals in him. It seems just that he can't get power on his headers, direction or power on his shots, and just can't score, mainly due to timing at technique. However if everyone in the City team put in as much effort we would be playing for 90 minutes with 150% effort week in week out which is why we can't slate him because eventhough he isn't a 30 goal a season striker, he has some good moves and runs, and he puts in everything he has every week and that's why he is in the team, however my overall opinion is laughs are great the first few times but then it just gets frustrating and in a way embarrassing that we have him up front when what we truly need is a striker who can get goals. Can't fault him though. At least he tries and does everything he can. He deserves the goals but the bare ends of it is, he just isn't good enough which is a shame!

[Meh]

The bare basics are, and I don't see how anyone can argue with this, he isn't a striker with goals in him. It seems just that he can't get power on his headers, direction or power on his shots, and just can't score, mainly due to timing at technique. However if everyone in the City team put in as much effort we would be playing for 90 minutes with 150% effort week in week out which is why we can't slate him because eventhough he isn't a 30 goal a season striker, he has some good moves and runs, and he puts in everything he has every week and that's why he is in the team, however my overall opinion is laughs are great the first few times but then it just gets frustrating and in a way embarrassing that we have him up front when what we truly need is a striker who can get goals. Can't fault him though. At least he tries and does everything he can. He deserves the goals but the bare ends of it is, he just isn't good enough which is a shame!

Agree with all of that.

Everybody loves a player willing to give it his all and he is great value, but, if we seriously want to go for it next year (yet again), we need another goal-scorer alongside Brooker.

Brooker is in a purple patch and goals came from everywhere today so it is hard to worry too much, but, when it's 0-0 next season in the 80th minute and it's been one of those nights, Bas is not going to get you the winner. But, he will try too!

[Port Said Red]

I agree what he showed today was that he hasn't the capability to move from his position on the wing that he grew up in, to centre forward which is what his stature demands.

My argument has always been with those who call him completely useless or castigated him as the "worst player to pull on a City shirt" based on what they knew of him when he signed. He is neither of these things but has also, sadly, not shown enough of a strikers instinct to warrant a contract.

Today he either lacked the real confidence to shoot or was trying to hard to get power into his efforts, either way he failed to make a mark

[Ashcott Boy]

It says it all really when Carey has scored twice as many goals in one game as Bas has all season.

He does hold the ball up reasonably well but if we are to challenge for promotion next season we have to buy a decent striker to partner Brooker.

[mozo]

I agree what he showed today was that he hasn't the capability to move from his position on the wing that he grew up in, to centre forward which is what his stature demands.

My argument has always been with those who call him completely useless or castigated him as the "worst player to pull on a City shirt" based on what they knew of him when he signed. He is neither of these things but has also, sadly, not shown enough of a strikers instinct to warrant a contract.

Today he either lacked the real confidence to shoot or was trying to hard to get power into his efforts, either way he failed to make a mark

well said

[Dolman Block B]

Bas? An enigma? He does make me laugh, I wish him well - he probably did contribute (a bit) to the result with his "effort" - but he is a striker. Well, actually - no he is not.

Had it been grim and were drawing or losing - some of Bas's efforts on goal are simply hopeless and he would not be tolerated - we must judge him as a striker - the same way Stewart gets slaughtered for a lack of goals - I don't quite see why Bas gets away with it and even has a large support from our following (I am not saying we should heckle him - and I do try to give him the benefit of the large doubt) - but with 2 strikers we could have had even more goals.

Seriously - if you rate Bas - can you defend his perfomances as a striker - forget that we all kind of like him and wish him well - does he deliver?

I can't see it.

Totally spot on, my point for months. Six nil or not, Bas got go, he will never be a striker, nor will he score goal, but give him credit for his effort.

[Redpepper]

Bas was dreadful today. I agree you can't fault his commitment or effort but he can't shoot and doesn't win nearly enough balls in the air that his height dictates.

[Ben4BCFC]

Bas was dreadful today. I agree you can't fault his commitment or effort but he can't shoot and doesn't win nearly enough balls in the air that his height dictates.

I don't think it's fair to say he was dreadful as he did make some good moves and some good runs and won the ball in the air and on the ground every now and again and made some good crosses too. But as a striker's performance goes, you would like your striker that is meant to be playing alongside the target man and therefore getting you goals to get at least one in a 6-0 win let alone a season!

[Nibor]

You can see he puts in the effort and wants so badly to do well, I feel sort of sorry for him because I think he's out of his depth.

Today I thought was the worst game I've seen him have, which is weird considering the result. Other than robbing a centre back in the first half I can't think of anything he did that affected the game positively, and he muffed 3 or 4 good chances. He doesn't seem to strike the ball cleanly very often, or connect well with headers, and I think that's a bare minimum that a pro can't afford to lack. Even if he starts to get into dangerous positions, which to his credit he did more today, is he really going to take the chances?

For me, he's just not got the natural ability needed and I don't think that's something you can coach. I'd thank him for his effort, give him a glowing reference and let him go at the end of the season. I suspect Greebo is right and Johnson will keep him on though.

Nibor

[Guest ciderman]

I am not for one moment saying that Bas is anything but a poor goalscorer/striker, but what you need in this division is a big powerful forward who can hold the ball up and disturb defenders, which is what he does! GJ has done a great job in making the team hard to beat who cause problems for other teams and we are now hard to beat.

If we were in the championship then there is no way Bas would make the starting 11, but we need to be playing to the standard we are at, which is div 1! If we play next season like we have been for the last 15 games then we are very likely to be promoted, and once we are in the championship then we can get rid of the Bas's and attract (which is the main issue at this level) players who are more suited to Championship football. So there you go, this team (Bas included) for this level of football will do.... until we get promoted!!!!

[Redpepper]

I don't think it's fair to say he was dreadful as he did make some good moves and some good runs and won the ball in the air and on the ground every now and again and made some good crosses too. But as a striker's performance goes, you would like your striker that is meant to be playing alongside the target man and therefore getting you goals to get at least one in a 6-0 win let alone a season!

OK what I meant really was dreadful as a striker! I do find it hard to be critical as I agree he did do some things well and he puts in the effort. But there were times when I felt he should have had an attempt on goal and passed it and there were times when attempts on goal needed to be hit with real force and he was shooting with the sort of force my wife can muster!

[mozo]

I think this was a very wise comment from the gaffer:

"Bas Savage has worked his socks off and then Mark McCammon has gone on to grab a goal and the glory. That's how football is sometimes."

Bas played bad but this is what he needs to hear.

[Nibor]

I think this was a very wise comment from the gaffer:

"Bas Savage has worked his socks off and then Mark McCammon has gone on to grab a goal and the glory. That's how football is sometimes."

Bas played bad but this is what he needs to hear.

Perhaps, but I don't think confidence or attitude is his fundamental problem. The reason that McCammon scored was that he attacked the ball, whichever part of his head it came off. Bas doesn't seem to hav the timing to do that to me.

I didn't think McCammon looked very good either, but I think it would be sensible to give him a second month and see how he does, it can't be that effective and he seems to be able to find the net I'm just not quite sure how.

Nibor

[Guest Tactical Genius]

why we can't slate him because eventhough he isn't a 30 goal a season striker

he isn't a 3 goal a season striker, or even a 30 goal a career striker.

[Ben4BCFC]

he isn't a 3 goal a season striker, or even a 30 goal a career striker.

Your right he isn't a 3 goal a season striker - eventhough you meant 30

[Frenchay Red]

I have not been to see a game for a few months, I became so fed up with it that I found other things to do that did not leave me feeling miserable on a saturday. So I was not sure what to expect when I turned up for today's game. No denying that the result was convincing and City were very tight in most areas of the pitch, giving Gillingham very little opportunity, and we took our goals well. However our wide play today didn't produce much, but thankfully Russel and Skuse pretty well bossed midfield and Brooker worked tirelessly as ever up front. BUT what on earth was that playing alongside him? I heard that Savage was unorthodox, but that is putting it politely. What on earth is someone virually devoid of all footballing ability doing playing as a professional? I have been watching city for 50+ years and I can never remember any seeing anyone so bad. That includes the utterly clumsy big Dev who turned out for the gas years ago. Just think what the score might have been if we had two strikers. Where I was sat (Dolman) every time Bas got the ball there was laughter and chuckling all around me. Are we now fielding 10 players and a comedian? It looks that way to me. I cannot believe he is one of our best 2 strikers. No way.

[Nibor]

Your right he isn't a 3 goal a season striker - eventhough you meant 30

He meant exactly what he posted!

[Ben4BCFC]

[Mikenoski]

WE WON 6-0!!!

EVERY player on the pitch had a good effective game. You are all absolutley right, Bas is not a goal scorer, however he creates a lot of goals for other players and keeps opposition defenders under pressure to help prevent a quality ball from being played forward.

The guy is a work horse.. we havnt had many of those in recent years.. again he may not be good enough to play at a higher level... but if he was he would be doing just that for another team.

Get off the guys back and give credit where it is due.

[Cider red]

I havent seen much of bass savage or city this season but what i have seen i thought he was quite impressive , i think he would be good as a substitute to come on and shake the oposition up or as an extra option if we needed something late in the game.

[LSR]

Bas? An enigma? He does make me laugh, I wish him well - he probably did contribute (a bit) to the result with his "effort" - but he is a striker. Well, actually - no he is not.

Had it been grim and were drawing or losing - some of Bas's efforts on goal are simply hopeless and he would not be tolerated - we must judge him as a striker - the same way Stewart gets slaughtered for a lack of goals - I don't quite see why Bas gets away with it and even has a large support from our following (I am not saying we should heckle him - and I do try to give him the benefit of the large doubt) - but with 2 strikers we could have had even more goals.

Seriously - if you rate Bas - can you defend his perfomances as a striker - forget that we all kind of like him and wish him well - does he deliver?

I can't see it.

if you look at stewarts goals to games its not t hat bad really?

[RedTop]

I don't think you can have a go at Bas. Rather like a few years ago when people were moaning at Torpey, it seems absurd to have a go at someone for being picked and then giving his all! I'll have a go at someone if I think they lack effort, but if Bas comes on and tried 100 per cent, it's not his fault he keeps gettinig in the team. It's the manager who picks him, so have a go at him about it rather than the player himself.

It also seems rather unjust today to have a go at anyone in the team after a 6-0 win. It doesn't matter who scores the goals provided we win. Bas contributed today. Compare the results with and without Bas. He's a team player. No, he doesn't get the goals he should, and yes some of his contributions are noticeably dodgy. But by the same token, some are noticeably good. He may not have scored but he laid on at least one of the goals today. He's unselfish and adds an unpredictability. He's also started winning more in the air. If GJ can get him scoring goals he'll be invaluable.

But the test of a centre forward is the number of goals. It's inescapable that to be a success in the long run up front, you've got to be able to hit the back of the net. Bas hasn't done that to date. He's an ideal person to play behind the front two, but we don't play that way, so his career here depends on turning that round.

I hope he manages it because I enjoy watching him play. He's out of the ordinary, and that's something that is fun to watch.

[maidenheadred]

I have not been to see a game for a few months, I became so fed up with it that I found other things to do that did not leave me feeling miserable on a saturday. So I was not sure what to expect when I turned up for today's game. No denying that the result was convincing and City were very tight in most areas of the pitch, giving Gillingham very little opportunity, and we took our goals well. However our wide play today didn't produce much, but thankfully Russel and Skuse pretty well bossed midfield and Brooker worked tirelessly as ever up front. BUT what on earth was that playing alongside him? I heard that Savage was unorthodox, but that is putting it politely. What on earth is someone virually devoid of all footballing ability doing playing as a professional? I have been watching city for 50+ years and I can never remember any seeing anyone so bad. That includes the utterly clumsy big Dev who turned out for the gas years ago. Just think what the score might have been if we had two strikers. Where I was sat (Dolman) every time Bas got the ball there was laughter and chuckling all around me. Are we now fielding 10 players and a comedian? It looks that way to me. I cannot believe he is one of our best 2 strikers. No way.

i started watching city relatively late (13 or so), and that was in 1993. Since then, i have NEVER known us to win a league game by more than 5 goals.

We do so today - and some people decide to post only to abuse one of our players. With crap like "worst player in 50 years"

He earns nothing, he offers something different, he was a big part in the run of form that saved our season and he'll be gone next season anyway. Just leave him alone, will you!!!!

[Swindon Hater]

Some of you will never be happy, just be happy for a change and enjoy the good times, why do you have to have something to moan about or someone to slag off?

I would much rather have a 100 percent giving Bas, than a better footballing but lazy Tony Thorpe anyday.

[Nibor]

I don't think you can have a go at Bas. Rather like a few years ago when people were moaning at Torpey, it seems absurd to have a go at someone for being picked and then giving his all! I'll have a go at someone if I think they lack effort, but if Bas comes on and tried 100 per cent, it's not his fault he keeps gettinig in the team. It's the manager who picks him, so have a go at him about it rather than the player himself.

Yep, I agree with that and it was obvious today that Savage was doing his best and wasn't happy with how he played. He always puts in full effort.

It also seems rather unjust today to have a go at anyone in the team after a 6-0 win. It doesn't matter who scores the goals provided we win. Bas contributed today. Compare the results with and without Bas. He's a team player. No, he doesn't get the goals he should, and yes some of his contributions are noticeably dodgy. But by the same token, some are noticeably good. He may not have scored but he laid on at least one of the goals today. He's unselfish and adds an unpredictability. He's also started winning more in the air. If GJ can get him scoring goals he'll be invaluable.

I agree that it's somewhat churlish to criticise an individual performance in a 6-0 win and Bas is a team player. Comparing the results before and after his inclusion is a bit misleading, there were many other changes that I would argue were much more significant in our turnaround in form. I don't think he made any noticeably good contributions to the game, and he was the only player in the team this was true of. Check out the match report here. Sum total of a cross, a block, a foul won and given away, and a couple of weak attempts on goal that a striker should score. I defy anyone to tell me that any of our other strikers would have failed to score an unchallenged header 5 yards out in the middle of the goal. He didn't lay on a goal unless I missed one.

I think Savage is out of his depth and I feel sort of sorry for him, because as you say he doesn't pick himself and he tries his best. I'd love for him to be a success but unfortunately effort is not enough.

Nibor

[Markman]

My original post did not overly criticise Bas - it asked those that feel his inclusion is on merit to explain why? Lots of replies have been about his workrate and 100% effort (or 150% effort). I was asking a football question because in my 30 or so years of watching City and football Bas is, unfortunately, up amongst the least natural strikers I have seen - some of GJs transfers and loans have been less than effective and we, on here, have on many occasions criticised the players brought in. Because Bas tries hard he seems to be accepted for not actually being what he is selected for - a striker.

I find that odd - of course it is not his fault he is picked - he gets picked he tries hard - but the message from this thread seems to be that some of us can accept a player is out of his depth as long as he tries hard. Personally - I don't think that would be the case if we were still scrabbling around the bottom four - so my question was a realistic one. I enjoyed yesterday as much as anyone - fantastic - looks like we will stay up - brilliant - I just can't see that, for all his work rate and the fact that virtually everyone would like him to do well, he is a striker and merits selection ahead of the few others we have - some may think this is just a moan but it isn't - it is JUST a question and I am not sure anyone has really come on this thread and justified fully his selection.

That said - GJ picks the team and although I would not select him for Rotheram - GJ probably will and so I hope he gets a hat-trick (but I would not put much money on it)