Life Under Sharia Law

[bristolborn_and_red]

Barbaric or just?

You decide.

Islamic law in action

[The Batman]

Barbaric or just?

You decide.

Islamic law in action

barbaric

simple as.

although we have to respect others religious beliefs, i cannot see how anyone person could accept that.

although then again, there is captial punishment in the USA, but i also think it's wrong.

[Flaxbourton Red]

each to their own.

If that's how they want to do things overthere like that, let them.

As long as we get to do things how we want them over here, fine.

What right have we to interfere in other people's business?

[mozo]

As long as we get to do things how we want them over here, fine.

Bit optimistic.

[solo1bc]

I wondered when you'd get back onto your crusade Bristolborn. You've been quiet for a while.

Bored over at the subbers forum are you?

For starters it's a SOMALIAN version of islamic law but of course you wouldn't make that distinction as you can't tell the difference.

And anyway, is this more barbaric than the state murdering the criminal instead?

In our own cushy existence where we don't like 'real' blood on our hands, I guess so but if you look at it from another perspective I would suggest that if if the victims family really want 'justice' (revenge) then getting their own hands dirty is more 'just' than standing back and letting someone else do it for them.

[bristolborn_and_red]

Yet more apologism

[solo1bc]

Yet more gism

[Dorset_Cider]

each to their own.

If that's how they want to do things overthere like that, let them.

As long as we get to do things how we want them over here, fine.

What right have we to interfere in other people's business?

Have you not heard that there are those amongst us that have suggested that this should be the law of the UK?

[Mr Mosquito]

Barbaric or just?

You decide.

Islamic law in action

We have no right to judge the Somalian criminal justice system when the criminal justice system in this country is now widely regarded as the most corrupt and class based in Western Europe. UK Police Chiefs, their Crown Prosecution Service puppet masters, and judges are no more than overpaid toff/snob Royalists often in their highly paid jobs only by the default of birthright or a freemasonary handshake.

[lukejones2]

We have no right to judge the Somalian criminal justice system when the criminal justice system in this country is now widely regarded as the most corrupt and class based in Western Europe. UK Police Chiefs, their Crown Prosecution Service puppet masters, and judges are no more than overpaid toff/snob Royalists often in their highly paid jobs only by the default of birthright or a freemasonary handshake.

What about considering the psychological effect on a 16 year old of stabbing a man to death? Disgusting IMO.

[Dorset_Cider]

We have no right to judge the Somalian criminal justice system when the criminal justice system in this country is now widely regarded as the most corrupt and class based in Western Europe. UK Police Chiefs, their Crown Prosecution Service puppet masters, and judges are no more than overpaid toff/snob Royalists often in their highly paid jobs only by the default of birthright or a freemasonary handshake.

My Grandfather on my Mothers side was a Freemason..... so where does that leave me Gobbers?

I do not believe that he was one for anything other than the betterment of his fellow man......

[Mr Mosquito]

My Grandfather on my Mothers side was a Freemason..... so where does that leave me Gobbers?

I do not believe that he was one for anything other than the betterment of his fellow man......

I'm very suspicious of Police Freemasonary lodges especially in the West Mercia Police area (Hereford and Worcester region) - as is a close relative of mine who is also a Freemason - and for VERY good reason.........

[fRed]

It will end in anarchy again.

[Mr Mosquito]

What about considering the psychological effect on a 16 year old of stabbing a man to death? Disgusting IMO.

We should examine closely the inadequecies of our own hopelessly corrupt toff/snob ridden criminal justice system before criticising the criminal justice systems of other countries.

[lukejones2]

We should examine closely the inadequecies of our own hopelessly corrupt toff/snob ridden criminal justice system before criticising the criminal justice systems of other countries.

Yes we should look at our own judicial system BUT think of the 16 year old child and the mental effects of his actions... let us not ignore the plight of others. This is wrong and we should be brave enought to stand up and say so.

[WTFiGO!?!]

I thought we already were meddling in other 'barbaric' states.

I thought the West wanted to govern the world.

[solo1bc]

Yes we should look at our own judicial system BUT think of the 16 year old child and the mental effects of his actions... let us not ignore the plight of others. This is wrong and we should be brave enought to stand up and say so.

I agree with you luke but I don't think you can apply our thinking to the thinking of a 16 year old living in Somalia.

Life is cheap in Africa and even more so in Somalia so I would be very surprised if this is the first violence or brutality that this kid has seen or been a part of.

Any capital punishment is barbaric but is this more so than the clinical form of murder currently taking place in the States?

On a human level I would suggest that the clinical way is actually more barbaric. Similar to modern warfare where you can kill thousands at the push of a button and where troops in a helicopter gunship are basically playing playstation with peoples lives.

In the ancient world then sure it was more gory but at least if you wanted to kill someone you had to do it yourself and get your hands dirty.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yes we should look at our own judicial system BUT think of the 16 year old child and the mental effects of his actions... let us not ignore the plight of others. This is wrong and we should be brave enought to stand up and say so.

Our own leaders do not occupy the moral and ethical high ground. We have no right to criticise the Somalian judiciary in their attempts to restore order to their war torn country. The article in the link given in the original post on this topic clearly states: "Residents in the nearby area have reported a drop in robberies, murder and general lawlessness since the court began its work, Radio HornAfrik said."

[bucksred]

I wondered when you'd get back onto your crusade Bristolborn. You've been quiet for a while.

Bored over at the subbers forum are you?

For starters it's a SOMALIAN version of islamic law but of course you wouldn't make that distinction as you can't tell the difference.

And anyway, is this more barbaric than the state murdering the criminal instead?

In our own cushy existence where we don't like 'real' blood on our hands, I guess so but if you look at it from another perspective I would suggest that if if the victims family really want 'justice' (revenge) then getting their own hands dirty is more 'just' than standing back and letting someone else do it for them.

And you are back as chief apologist for Islam.

agreed about Somalia, its a failed fork up of a state, which happens to be Muslim in origin

Nigeria has stonings of people who break Sharia law, AND they try consistently to get Sharia law in force over ALL of Nigeria..even the Christian south...and has since independance. Mirrored in Cameroun too

Any comment on the Janjaweed (spelling I know) in Sudan? There its religious bigotry, supplanted by a very healthy racial hatred, last seen in Rwanda/Burundi..don't see ANY Muslim condemnation of it AT ALL.....and yes I know its unlikely in European press, but I read the African press too

Incidentally African people don't want revenge like that particularly barbaric fashion. It seems in African terms at least to be confined to Muslim areas. Rwandans & Burundians are happy for war crimes trials to take place. No trials took place in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and the TRC did a great job in South Africa...and PAGAD have turned into lynch mob vigilantes- cor blimey strike me down, another Muslim organization! What IS IT with these people?

Similar "Executions " take place in Saudi, & Iran, did take place in Afghanistan..........until the Taleban got a kicking, thank God

Executions happen in SOME US states not all true enough....but at least there is a legal process which has to be adhered to, the victims relatives cant just do it like that. Even the Reds didnt go for public executions. Only the Nazi scum did, and they had a problem with Jews as well.

If, and I don't disbeleive you, there are moderate Muslims all round the world who don't beleive all this Wahabist borlix, where the HELL ARE THEY condemning any of these issues. There are people all over the "Western World" who take part in anti demos-any time any place. See few if any Moderate Muslim demos/protests.

You can understand why B B & B says what he does surely? Or is tolerance a one way street?

I cant/wont accept religious/Ethnic/racial cleansing, or victimisation, but I'm damned if I will tolerate it from others, in particular an imported religion, which shows damn little of the Korans tolerance to others, and even less urge to assimilate, while expecting others to do just that, in the land of their ancestry.

I agree with you luke but I don't think you can apply our thinking to the thinking of a 16 year old living in Somalia.

Life is cheap in Africa and even more so in Somalia so I would be very surprised if this is the first violence or brutality that this kid has seen or been a part of.

Any capital punishment is barbaric but is this more so than the clinical form of murder currently taking place in the States?

On a human level I would suggest that the clinical way is actually more barbaric. Similar to modern warfare where you can kill thousands at the push of a button and where troops in a helicopter gunship are basically playing playstation with peoples lives.

In the ancient world then sure it was more gory but at least if you wanted to kill someone you had to do it yourself and get your hands dirty.

Life is cheap in Africa, its true, but only because very very few African countries have any kind of real democracy. In those with either functioning democracies, or a semblance thereof there is little of the barbarity seen in Somalia. Even in Zim, the death penalty is not carried out in such a vicious way.

Your arguement there is flawed. Even in apartheid era SA, executions were carried out in a manner, where revenge wasnt the big issue.

[solo1bc]

And you are back as chief apologist for Islam.

Well, that's interesting becasue I don't remember EVER starting a thread about Islam or any other religion.

I only respond to some peoples consistent attacks and misconceptions. Never apologised either but if you wanna call me Chief then go ahead.

agreed about Somalia, its a failed fork up of a state, which happens to be Muslim in origin

Nigeria has stonings of people who break Sharia law, AND they try consistently to get Sharia law in force over ALL of Nigeria..even the Christian south...and has since independance. Mirrored in Cameroun too

Any comment on the Janjaweed (spelling I know) in Sudan? There its religious bigotry, supplanted by a very healthy racial hatred, last seen in Rwanda/Burundi..don't see ANY Muslim condemnation of it AT ALL.....and yes I know its unlikely in European press, but I read the African press too

Incidentally African people don't want revenge like that particularly barbaric fashion. It seems in African terms at least to be confined to Muslim areas. Rwandans & Burundians are happy for war crimes trials to take place. No trials took place in Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, and the TRC did a great job in South Africa...and PAGAD have turned into lynch mob vigilantes- cor blimey strike me down, another Muslim organization! What IS IT with these people?

By 'these people' I assume you means Muslims in general. Most of 'these people' are normal people who want the same in life as you. Of course there are a percentage that are poor, ignorant and manipulated by power hungry fanatics who make a bad name for the others.

Being a white South African surely you must be a racist by the same logic as you've used for 'these people' ?

Similar "Executions " take place in Saudi, & Iran, did take place in Afghanistan..........until the Taleban got a kicking, thank God

Executions happen in SOME US states not all true enough....but at least there is a legal process which has to be adhered to, the victims relatives cant just do it like that. Even the Reds didnt go for public executions. Only the Nazi scum did, and they had a problem with Jews as well.

If you read the story then the victims family didn't 'just do it like that'. It was a legal process in a Somali court (albiet a primative one!).

My point that you didn't respond to though wasn't that it isn't barbaric. Of course it is. My point is that I'm not convinced that it's 'less' barbaric than having the state commit the actual deed. If the punishment is the taking of the criminals life then why is it 'less' barbaric to do it in a clinical fashion as opposed to a primitive one like this?

If, and I don't disbeleive you, there are moderate Muslims all round the world who don't beleive all this Wahabist borlix, where the HELL ARE THEY condemning any of these issues. There are people all over the "Western World" who take part in anti demos-any time any place. See few if any Moderate Muslim demos/protests.

You can understand why B B & B says what he does surely? Or is tolerance a one way street?

I can certainly understand why Bristolborn has a problem with fanatical islam. I have the same issues with it myself.

What I disagree with though is that he always tars the whole muslim population with the same brush and seems to have a particular problem with one relgion and group of people when in fact it's all religions amongst other social and economic issues which is the problem.

He seems to trawl the internet looking for bad press about muslims and never posts anything else about the injustice of the west or any other group.

If he's so bothered about the state of the world then why is that?

As for your question about moderate muslims speaking out, well 'the man on the street' will certainly speak out about such a barbaric thing like this story from Somalia but you won't see a lot in the press about it because the majority of muslim nations are dictatorships/monarchies or at best sham democracies like Egypt. For the same reason you won't see any protests either. Protest to strongly in most of these states and you'll end up in jail.

I cant/wont accept religious/Ethnic/racial cleansing, or victimisation, but I'm damned if I will tolerate it from others, in particular an imported religion, which shows damn little of the Korans tolerance to others, and even less urge to assimilate, while expecting others to do just that, in the land of their ancestry.

Life is cheap in Africa, its true, but only because very very few African countries have any kind of real democracy. In those with either functioning democracies, or a semblance thereof there is little of the barbarity seen in Somalia. Even in Zim, the death penalty is not carried out in such a vicious way.

Your arguement there is flawed. Even in apartheid era SA, executions were carried out in a manner, where revenge wasnt the big issue.

You claim you won't accept religious victimisation but you support Bristolborn in his obvious victimisation of over 1 billion people?

My point about 'life is cheap in Africa' was strictly to highlight that what you & I (South Africa is HARDLY the same as DRC, Somalia, Sudan or Nigeria) find barbaric will be seen as less so in these places where death and depravation are a part of daily life. I've seen dead bodies in Cote d'Ivoire but I've never seen the actual deed... Are you telling me that people in these dirt poor countries are the same? Or course they aren't.

Re your point about how the execution is carried out then just see my comment above. Is it more barbaric in this fashion than in a more clinical way like in (parts of) the States? For us in our cushy existence then I guess it is but on a human level I would strongly disagree.

[bristolborn_and_red]

Well, that's interesting becasue I don't remember EVER starting a thread about Islam or any other religion.

I only respond to some peoples consistent attacks and misconceptions. Never apologised either but if you wanna call me Chief then go ahead.

By 'these people' I assume you means Muslims in general. Most of 'these people' are normal people who want the same in life as you. Of course there are a percentage that are poor, ignorant and manipulated by power hungry fanatics who make a bad name for the others.

Being a white South African surely you must be a racist by the same logic as you've used for 'these people' ?

If you read the story then the victims family didn't 'just do it like that'. It was a legal process in a Somali court (albiet a primative one!).

My point that you didn't respond to though wasn't that it isn't barbaric. Of course it is. My point is that I'm not convinced that it's 'less' barbaric than having the state commit the actual deed. If the punishment is the taking of the criminals life then why is it 'less' barbaric to do it in a clinical fashion as opposed to a primitive one like this?

I can certainly understand why Bristolborn has a problem with fanatical islam. I have the same issues with it myself.

What I disagree with though is that he always tars the whole muslim population with the same brush and seems to have a particular problem with one relgion and group of people when in fact it's all religions amongst other social and economic issues which is the problem.

He seems to trawl the internet looking for bad press about muslims and never posts anything else about the injustice of the west or any other group.

If he's so bothered about the state of the world then why is that?

As for your question about moderate muslims speaking out, well 'the man on the street' will certainly speak out about such a barbaric thing like this story from Somalia but you won't see a lot in the press about it because the majority of muslim nations are dictatorships/monarchies or at best sham democracies like Egypt. For the same reason you won't see any protests either. Protest to strongly in most of these states and you'll end up in jail.

You claim you won't accept religious victimisation but you support Bristolborn in his obvious victimisation of over 1 billion people?

My point about 'life is cheap in Africa' was strictly to highlight that what you & I (South Africa is HARDLY the same as DRC, Somalia, Sudan or Nigeria) find barbaric will be seen as less so in these places where death and depravation are a part of daily life. I've seen dead bodies in Cote d'Ivoire but I've never seen the actual deed... Are you telling me that people in these dirt poor countries are the same? Or course they aren't.

Re your point about how the execution is carried out then just see my comment above. Is it more barbaric in this fashion than in a more clinical way like in (parts of) the States? For us in our cushy existence then I guess it is but on a human level I would strongly disagree.

I wish I could do this quote thing. Sorry but the man on the street is not speaking against these sort of things. Show me a link and i will believe you. Bet you cannot!

[mozo]

I wish I could do this quote thing. Sorry but the man on the street is not speaking against these sort of things. Show me a link and i will believe you. Bet you cannot!

Why don't you go to a mosque and find out the truth?

[solo1bc]

I wish I could do this quote thing. Sorry but the man on the street is not speaking against these sort of things. Show me a link and i will believe you. Bet you cannot!

As apparently you only believe something if you read it on the net (I live amongst the muslim 'man on the street' so I think I have a slightly better take on it than you.... mention terrorism, public executions or even female inequality and you'll get the same reply a thousand times "This is NOT Islam!") then here's a couple of links.

Muslims against Terrorism

Read the last paragraph!

If you want something from the western media that you seem to swallow whole then I think you'll probably be dissapointed. They simply won't report it.

[bristolborn_and_red]

As apparently you only believe something if you read it on the net (I live amongst the muslim 'man on the street' so I think I have a slightly better take on it than you.... mention terrorism, public executions or even female inequality and you'll get the same reply a thousand times "This is NOT Islam!") then here's a couple of links.

Muslims against Terrorism

Read the last paragraph!

If you want something from the western media that you seem to swallow whole then I think you'll probably be dissapointed. They simply won't report it.

Ah Hamza Yusef, the know all American convert to islam. He seems to know nothing about the process of abrogation as he quote verses that have been abrogated like the no compulsion in religion one. Still he seems sincere but unfortunately he is a voice in the wilderness. This of which he recognises. On his personal safety, he says,

What about physical danger? "Yes, I think there is a real risk from ignorant people who have no respect for divergent opinions. There are Muslim fascists who are intellectually bankrupt. The only way they can argue is to eliminate the voices they don't agree with."

Unfortunately the fascists are winning the day.