New Ashton Gate...

[BCAGFC]

Just had a look at the progress of Franchise FCs' new ground being built by a well known supermarket and I just can't see how BCFC cannot do the same. Why doesn't our board approach ASDA/TESCO etc or a large commercial firm in Bristol or is moving to Bristol and get this started, the firm could even base their offices within the ground/complex which would be more financially feasible.

The David Lloyd site, even though it is located JUST outside the City of Bristol boundary would be absolutely perfect and the road access could easily be improved without too much inconvenience. I know that the any investment should be spent on building a team to get us out of this very, very poor division first but a new ground could be completely seperate to that if the board really, really wanted it.

Finally, if all else fails we must have a PROPER ground redevelopment plan in place as soon as possible as it was proved that the present plan was not well thought out (who decided to put boxes behind the goal, that is only a last resort, ala Arsenal) as proved when they couldn't sell the Executive seats/boxes in the East End Stand and not just build bits here and there.

BCAGFC

P.s. And don't even start me on our new 'Premier Club' (which IS and WILL be under-subscribed come the start of the season).

[Devizes Red]

I think you understimate the difficulty of getting planning permission. Out of town retail stores are not going to get planning permission anywhere near the David Lloyd site. Much of the city is surrounded by green belt where planning policies are very restrictive. If you want an idea of the difficulties involved, just take a look at the saga surrounding the Falmer site for Brighton. I for one would not want the club/board being distracted by pursuing no-hoper new ground issues. It could be a bottomless pit for fees for consultants, with the money draining away from the club........and run for years and years.

[GJS_Cider_Army]

How about not moving the ground !!!!

[Guest Ron]

We get 11k a week on average in a 21k-capacity stadium.

The need to move really isn't big enough.

[Big Red Rich]

We get 11k a week on average in a 21k-capacity stadium.

The need to move really isn't big enough.

The need for a new ground stretches much further than just attendances, the amount of commercial revenue that is lost by Ashton Gate's inability to produce any profit between games is the reason why we are running at a loss.

[Nibor]

We get 11k a week on average in a 21k-capacity stadium.

The need to move really isn't big enough.

It's true that we don't need the capacity but that's only one of a myriad of reasons to move.

Some other good ones are:

1) Crowd boost just from having a new stadium

2) Vastly exhorbitant cost of developing present stadium due to the site it's on makes it hard to increase non matchday income

3) Poor-to-abysmal transport links in current location

4) Maintenance costs of a newer building should be lower

5) Re-zoning current site and building flats on it (if allowed to by the council) could possibly pay for a new stadium and leave a healthy amount over

6) Difficulty of getting planning permission for developing present stadium due to local residents potentially objecting

7) Possibility of custom building some safe standing enclosures (!)

8) Newer and better facilities make it more likely we'll get income from hosting international fixtures and other non football events

We could move to say a 20,000 capacity stadium built with expansion to 35-40,000 in mind, reap all the benefits above and only build the extra capacity if we hit the top end of the Championship and need it. Doing so could well give us a financial platform to make hitting that league status much more likely.

The main blockers are convincing the council, getting finance, convincing a large percentage of fans that it's the right move, and finding a site close enough to maintain the South Bristol link. So not that tough eh?

[Tunley Legend]

It's true that we don't need the capacity but that's only one of a myriad of reasons to move.

Some other good ones are:

1) Crowd boost just from having a new stadium

2) Vastly exhorbitant cost of developing present stadium due to the site it's on makes it hard to increase non matchday income

3) Poor-to-abysmal transport links in current location

4) Maintenance costs of a newer building should be lower

5) Re-zoning current site and building flats on it (if allowed to by the council) could possibly pay for a new stadium and leave a healthy amount over

6) Difficulty of getting planning permission for developing present stadium due to local residents potentially objecting

7) Possibility of custom building some safe standing enclosures (!)

8) Newer and better facilities make it more likely we'll get income from hosting international fixtures and other non football events

We could move to say a 20,000 capacity stadium built with expansion to 35-40,000 in mind, reap all the benefits above and only build the extra capacity if we hit the top end of the Championship and need it. Doing so could well give us a financial platform to make hitting that league status much more likely.

The main blockers are convincing the council, getting finance, convincing a large percentage of fans that it's the right move, and finding a site close enough to maintain the South Bristol link. So not that tough eh?

Your last comment was the most important one if we were to build a new ground. Any potential new ground would simply have to be built in or to the South of the city otherwise I reckon you would end up with LESS people going to watch City. And anybody who seriously thinks we would find or be allowed to build a ground within the boundaries of the City of Bristol is living in cloud cuckoo land. Therefore that leaves us with the North Somerset green belt to find a site. That would not be easy and is why I think the club in the long term, if it was successful, would end up staying at Ashton Gate and knocking down the Williams, East End and Dolman in order to increase capacity.

[Guest Ron]

It's true that we don't need the capacity but that's only one of a myriad of reasons to move.

Some other good ones are:

1) Crowd boost just from having a new stadium

2) Vastly exhorbitant cost of developing present stadium due to the site it's on makes it hard to increase non matchday income

3) Poor-to-abysmal transport links in current location

4) Maintenance costs of a newer building should be lower

5) Re-zoning current site and building flats on it (if allowed to by the council) could possibly pay for a new stadium and leave a healthy amount over

6) Difficulty of getting planning permission for developing present stadium due to local residents potentially objecting

7) Possibility of custom building some safe standing enclosures (!)

8) Newer and better facilities make it more likely we'll get income from hosting international fixtures and other non football events

We could move to say a 20,000 capacity stadium built with expansion to 35-40,000 in mind, reap all the benefits above and only build the extra capacity if we hit the top end of the Championship and need it. Doing so could well give us a financial platform to make hitting that league status much more likely.

The main blockers are convincing the council, getting finance, convincing a large percentage of fans that it's the right move, and finding a site close enough to maintain the South Bristol link. So not that tough eh?

Decent points certainly. But as you say at the bottom it would be a huge hassle getting this thing done. How much trouble has this bloody new stand been, and it hasnt even been built yet!!

This brings the question is it really worth it. Maybe if we were established in the Championship, but until we get out of this League I don't think so personally.

[Nibor]

Your last comment was the most important one if we were to build a new ground. Any potential new ground would simply have to be built in or to the South of the city otherwise I reckon you would end up with LESS people going to watch City. And anybody who seriously thinks we would find or be allowed to build a ground within the boundaries of the City of Bristol is living in cloud cuckoo land. Therefore that leaves us with the North Somerset green belt to find a site. That would not be easy and is why I think the club in the long term, if it was successful, would end up staying at Ashton Gate and knocking down the Williams, East End and Dolman in order to increase capacity.

That's pretty much the conclusion the club came to after years of being frustrated by the council. The problem with staying is that it puts a cap on how far we can progress because we can only get up to I think 28,000 there (not an immediate problem I admit) and that the cost of doing any development is massive compared to building from scratch. I think that they were talking about literally £30m last time the whole thing was planned to get the 3 old stands redeveloped to about 28k which dwarved the cost of building a new one.

What we need is someone wealthy enough to buy off the council, or some drastic change in the sodding mess that is local government.

Decent points certainly. But as you say at the bottom it would be a huge hassle getting this thing done. How much trouble has this bloody new stand been, and it hasnt even been built yet!!

This brings the question is it really worth it. Maybe if we were established in the Championship, but until we get out of this League I don't think so personally.

Yep but remember much of the trouble with the new stand is because of it's stupidly high cost which is because of the conditions of the current site. It's worth it if it pays for itself even if we stay in this division, but yes it would be a huge hassle.

The biggest problem with this sort of thing is that you have to start it before you need it or you won't be in the position where you need it for long. It's a gamble.

[zookeeper]

It is a gamble and would require hard work (rather than it being a hassle) but it would also have it's benefits, as have been stated.

The likes of Reading, Stoke, Wigan and Millwall were all at a similar position to us 7 years ago and all have since moved into new purpose built stadium and have progressed.

I fear that the poor reaction to any proposals from the club by the local council has left us behind these clubs.

[Wurzel City]

Just had a look at the progress of Franchise FCs' new ground being built by a well known supermarket and I just can't see how BCFC cannot do the same. Why doesn't our board approach ASDA/TESCO etc or a large commercial firm in Bristol or is moving to Bristol and get this started, the firm could even base their offices within the ground/complex which would be more financially feasible.

The David Lloyd site, even though it is located JUST outside the City of Bristol boundary would be absolutely perfect and the road access could easily be improved without too much inconvenience. I know that the any investment should be spent on building a team to get us out of this very, very poor division first but a new ground could be completely seperate to that if the board really, really wanted it.

Finally, if all else fails we must have a PROPER ground redevelopment plan in place as soon as possible as it was proved that the present plan was not well thought out (who decided to put boxes behind the goal, that is only a last resort, ala Arsenal) as proved when they couldn't sell the Executive seats/boxes in the East End Stand and not just build bits here and there.

BCAGFC

P.s. And don't even start me on our new 'Premier Club' (which IS and WILL be under-subscribed come the start of the season).

The Dongs will not own it, they will be paying rent for ever, the whole deal was linked to the development of a hypermarket and a company who operate some pretty sharp business practices, the Dongs are owned by people who wanted to move the club to Dublin, think it is ok to move the club seventy miles from it's support who oppposed the move and used the clubs finances to stave off any legal challenges. So i would not use them as an example of anything.

5) Re-zoning current site and building flats on it (if allowed to by the council) could possibly pay for a new stadium and leave a healthy amount over

I am reliably informed by someone in the supporters trust [who asked about the matter] that the ground cannot be sold for anything other than industrial use thus cutting the value of the ground by millions.

[Nibor]

I am reliably informed by someone in the supporters trust [who asked about the matter] that the ground cannot be sold for anything other than industrial use thus cutting the value of the ground by millions.

That's true right now but that's what I meant by rezoning. We can do anything we like as long as the council support it. That's the whole point - no stadium scheme gets off the ground without their support. If they truly wanted to help they could find us a site and agree to the ashton gate site being rezoned.

[Wurzel City]

That's true right now but that's what I meant by rezoning. We can do anything we like as long as the council support it. That's the whole point - no stadium scheme gets off the ground without their support. If they truly wanted to help they could find us a site and agree to the ashton gate site being rezoned.

I was informed because the site had previously been used for dumping [someone could have fun with that] the site cannot be rezoned.

As for the council you are right however i would suggest City should start with convincing the fans that they want to move.

[Nibor]

I was informed because the site had previously been used for dumping [someone could have fun with that] the site cannot be rezoned.

As for the council you are right however i would suggest City should start with convincing the fans that they want to move.

Never heard anything about it having been used for dumping before.

I'd be surprised if we can have a football stadium on land that isn't allowed to be used for residential purposes for health reasons. It doesn't quite add up. Since Ashton Gate's been there so long perhaps there's some really old outdated local bylaw that can be easily negotiated around.

[Dan C]

I'm all in favour of a new stadium. I believe it is the only way forward.

Redeveloping Ashton gate will prove to be very costly and time consuming. If I'm right the East end was going to cost around 7-8 million. And then after that we would then need to do the Williams and then the Dolman which going by the cost of the new EE I would say 10 million each so that's 28 million to redevelop the gate and IMHO would take around 10 years to complete and we still wouldn't end up with the Non match day facilities that we could make a lot of money from.

Swansea built there new stadium for 27 million, We would need a stadium of around 25,000 with room for future expansion, So total costs could Be around 30 million. A chunk of that could also be paid for by the sell of the Ashton Gate site.

I know some people think 30 million is a lot of money but in reality we will have to pay that to completely redevelop Ag as it needs it, If we are in the Championship then we will lose money by having a reduced capacity for each season we build a new stand, And in cases such as the Dolman and east end we will only be replacing the current stands with around the same amount of seats rather than expanding.

The Ashton gate site also has a limit on expansion and room for non match day facilities, For example a hotel or casino which would bring in a healthy amount of money each year.

[Reg Hill]

Planners are currently looking at a massive expansion of Bristol (over 10,000 new houses - a town the size of Yate) roughly in the area beyond Ashton Vale between the A370 up to and beyond the A38. At the moment it's Green Belt so basically nothing can be built on it and any previous attempts by the club to develop there will have been given short shrift by planners. But all that will change over the next few years and although the new development will be mainly housing, I see no good reason why it couldn't incorporate a new stadium and related facilites (conference/hotel/leisure etc.) which would provide a commercially viable package. The new houses will need community facilities, shops etc so the stadium complex could be a superb focal point for it.

To my mind this is a far more attractive, long-term proposition than redeveloping Ashton Gate. It's in the right part of the city and, as others have pointed out, the existing ground could be sold for residential development to provide some funding. I would be very surprised if the club aren't already looking at this (if they aren't they should be) and I have some suspicions that pulling out of the Wedlock end redevlopment had more than catering contracts behind it.

[BCAGFC]

The Dongs will not own it, they will be paying rent for ever, the whole deal was linked to the development of a hypermarket and a company who operate some pretty sharp business practices, the Dongs are owned by people who wanted to move the club to Dublin, think it is ok to move the club seventy miles from it's support who oppposed the move and used the clubs finances to stave off any legal challenges. So i would not use them as an example of anything.

I am reliably informed by someone in the supporters trust [who asked about the matter] that the ground cannot be sold for anything other than industrial use thus cutting the value of the ground by millions.

In the very near future BCFC may not own AG and have to pay rent to someone for ever and ever.

BCAGFC

[Nibor]

In the very near future BCFC may not own AG and have to pay rent to someone for ever and ever.

BCAGFC

What is that based on?

[grifty]

my main concern would be the name of the new stadium. I would hate for us to move to a stadium like hull or swansea for it to be called the "new stadium". How boring I would like an ashton gate 2

The main problem, apart from financial issues, seems to be the green belt. But you must remember, there are ways round this if the council see that the proposed development will, in some way, benefit the local people, the local council, etc. As the south west has no major football team in the top division, if we were too make it to the prem, say within the next 7-15 years (hopefully sooner ) or at least challenging at the top of the championship each season, then i can't see the council supporting us.

IMO, our main concern must be to get out of this division by spending on players and not on our stadium which we fail to fill everyweek anyway

[ciderup]

Planners are currently looking at a massive expansion of Bristol (over 10,000 new houses - a town the size of Yate) roughly in the area beyond Ashton Vale between the A370 up to and beyond the A38. At the moment it's Green Belt so basically nothing can be built on it and any previous attempts by the club to develop there will have been given short shrift by planners. But all that will change over the next few years and although the new development will be mainly housing, I see no good reason why it couldn't incorporate a new stadium and related facilites (conference/hotel/leisure etc.) which would provide a commercially viable package. The new houses will need community facilities, shops etc so the stadium complex could be a superb focal point for it.

To my mind this is a far more attractive, long-term proposition than redeveloping Ashton Gate. It's in the right part of the city and, as others have pointed out, the existing ground could be sold for residential development to provide some funding. I would be very surprised if the club aren't already looking at this (if they aren't they should be) and I have some suspicions that pulling out of the Wedlock end redevlopment had more than catering contracts behind it.

This reflects my thoughts perfectly.With the proposed expansion on the a370/a38 corridor,the plans for the South Bristol ring road (at last) as well as the sudden suspension/cancellation of the new stand (plus £7m) could the possibility of a new ground be about to happen?

The opportunity is there and I would be very surprised if SL and CS are not already looking in to the possibility.

[CiderHider]

I expect a new staduim will only be looked seriously once we sustain ourselves in the Championship where we can gaurentee gates of 18k each home game.

Although, Bristol is a big City and a new big staduim would bring in extra revenue from concerts/shows etc...

The cost of building a new staduim is never the biggest problem, planning permission and all the burocracy that goes with it is what causes the headaches.