Islamic Values V British Values

[bucksred]

Actually, Mozo, and Dagest, and Bensolo, how would you react, if that flyer had been posted by an Extremist White group from say South Africa?, or Poland/Russia/Ukraine, same type of message, same rhetoric, same anti British (Western)attitude- or an exiled Black Group, of say Nigerians/Zimbabweans, or exiled Columbians/Guatamalans? And how would you react to a lack of integration with British society from those said groups? And disrespect to our values and attititudes/heritage/society?

This is not intended as a flip comment, a serious question, for you.

[bristolborn_and_red]

Just out of interest Bristoborn, what aspects of Islam impress you?

Genuine question (although I'm half-expecting a facetious answer).

Yes i have thought of one! As i am the only male sibling in my family with two sisters, under the sharia laws of inheritance, i would receive twice as much as them. Nice

[Flaxbourton Red]

i don't find anything wrong with the sticker or letter

its just an opinion, we have free speech in this country don't we?

i don't agree with what they say and i could put my own stickers up if i wanted to

like

FLOG THEN HANG BAD PEOPLE.

NUKE WALES

its only fair?

[dagest]

Actually, Mozo, and Dagest, and Bensolo, how would you react, if that flyer had been posted by an Extremist White group from say South Africa?, or Poland/Russia/Ukraine, same type of message, same rhetoric, same anti British (Western)attitude- or an exiled Black Group, of say Nigerians/Zimbabweans, or exiled Columbians/Guatamalans? And how would you react to a lack of integration with British society from those said groups? And disrespect to our values and attititudes/heritage/society?

This is not intended as a flip comment, a serious question, for you.

I'm not sure I really understand the question to be honest Bucks. What I would say is that the leaflet is idiotic. As I've said on here before, I don't accept this tendency of humans to keep dividing things into two camps all the time. Why do so many people always have a binary view of things?

I asked the question about Britsh values because I don't think it can be summed up very easily. Whose values are we talking about exactly? - the politicians? the aristocracy? the local black community? Lesbians? ex-war veterans? anarchists? In my view there is no solid block of opinion or value in this country. Do I have the same values as a Tory politician? Do you? Do British values really exist?

Anyway, to try and answer your question, I think the leaflet is boll0x, but I won't deny them their right to print whatever they want. However, I don't buy this view that immigrant groups (if that's what we're thinking) have to come here and suddenly think the same as whoever happens to be here already. And as I said above why should they have to think the same as moderate nationalist anymore than they should a Trotskyist? Moreover, why is it ok for the the US to travel the world and export its particular view on the world? Why does a country have to become democratic because the US says so? Do we question the right of the US to do this?

I would tackle the fundamentalists in the same way that I would tackle elitetist white groups. I would try and ensure that their view was made to ridculous and flawed, which it is in my opinion.

[mozo]

Mozo, youre stupidity is matched only by your ignorance. Why would I be a BNP supporter? I'm an immigrant (And a proud citizen of this country, which gave me a chance).............that is to say, I wasnt born in this country, and am one of those the BNP want out............and the apologists too apparantly. I have never been, not now, or ever will be a fascist, or a bloody red!

I detest facism, of ALL religious, political, and ethnic varieties, I also detest those who apologize for it, while ignoring the reality of those facist/communist/nationalist/religious bigots.

Integration is a brilliant idea, and youre right is the way forward, but these idiots are no more inclined to integration than the t@ssers of the BNP are.

I may be stupid and ignorant, but I don't consider myself a 'muslim apologist', just like you don't consider yourelf BNP or whatever I joked about you. Get over yourself.

I'm not aware of any BNP enthusiasts using this forum, but if there were, I doubt my comments would have any impact on them.

This concept of British values being attacked is pointless. It's clear that Bristolborn's values are very different to mine.

Actually, Mozo, and Dagest, and Bensolo, how would you react, if that flyer had been posted by an Extremist White group from say South Africa?, or Poland/Russia/Ukraine, same type of message, same rhetoric, same anti British (Western)attitude- or an exiled Black Group, of say Nigerians/Zimbabweans, or exiled Columbians/Guatamalans? And how would you react to a lack of integration with British society from those said groups? And disrespect to our values and attititudes/heritage/society?

This is not intended as a flip comment, a serious question, for you.

My reaction to Bristolborn's posts are purely motivated by my dislike of scapegoating.

I believe that it is only right that counter-arguments are put forward to challenge his incredibly one-sided, cynical agenda.

The group who made that flyer don't have my backing by a long shot, but they are also not evidence that British Muslims cannot operate in this society. I have seen no compelling evidence for that whatsoever.

[bucksred]

I'm not sure I really understand the question to be honest Bucks. What I would say is that the leaflet is idiotic. As I've said on here before, I don't accept this tendency of humans to keep dividing things into two camps all the time. Why do so many people always have a binary view of things?

I asked the question about Britsh values because I don't think it can be summed up very easily. Whose values are we talking about exactly? - the politicians? the aristocracy? the local black community? Lesbians? ex-war veterans? anarchists? In my view there is no solid block of opinion or value in this country. Do I have the same values as a Tory politician? Do you? Do British values really exist?

Anyway, to try and answer your question, I think the leaflet is boll0x, but I won't deny them their right to print whatever they want. However, I don't buy this view that immigrant groups (if that's what we're thinking) have to come here and suddenly think the same as whoever happens to be here already. And as I said above why should they have to think the same as moderate nationalist anymore than they should a Trotskyist? Moreover, why is it ok for the the US to travel the world and export its particular view on the world? Why does a country have to become democratic because the US says so? Do we question the right of the US to do this?

I would tackle the fundamentalists in the same way that I would tackle elitetist white groups. I would try and ensure that their view was made to ridculous and flawed, which it is in my opinion.

Good answer, and we're in agreement. Our views differ in so far as we have a different background and experience. And We can debate the issue, as is our right, and indeed an enjoyable debate.

[bucksred]

I may be stupid and ignorant, but I don't consider myself a 'muslim apologist', just like you don't consider yourelf BNP or whatever I joked about you. Get over yourself.

I'm not aware of any BNP enthusiasts using this forum, but if there were, I doubt my comments would have any impact on them.

This concept of British values being attacked is pointless. It's clear that Bristolborn's values are very different to mine.

My reaction to Bristolborn's posts are purely motivated by my dislike of scapegoating.

I believe that it is only right that counter-arguments are put forward to challenge his incredibly one-sided, cynical agenda.

The group who made that flyer don't have my backing by a long shot, but they are also not evidence that British Muslims cannot operate in this society. I have seen no compelling evidence for that whatsoever.

Again another intelligent answer. Our backgrounds give us a different perspective. Here in the South East corner, the Muslim community does not appear to assimilate to the degree that other areas have. We also seem to attract a lot more of the extremists here to, which does little to help. I can see B B & B's view, I don't entirely agree, but it is hard to argue when this kind of rubbish spewed by Al queda supporting, and Wahabist lunatics, claim to speak for, and hide (like losers) in their midst. I cannot and will not accept being forced to change the life I lead for fanatics, who would try and inflict a foreign culture on a generally generous, and welcoming host country. I would not argue at all with either yours or Dagests, or Ben solos views was it not for the extemist behaviour in various African countries, which indicates, to me personally, that there is substantial sympathy and support for the lunacy. Its wrong to inflict that on a continent, which has so many other far important issues to cope with than the 12th Century view these toerags espouse, and promote. They aint a Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, red russia, and China, or a militaristic Japan, Germany, or serbia, but they do pose a potent danger to ALL of us, no matter what colour, creed, or race we are. it is in all of our interests to smash these people, and then the ordinary Muslim, Jew, Hindu, and Christian can get on with making a living/surviving, which ever it is you have to do.

If my country were still in a civilised state, I would happily live there, but it aint, and I am now proud of living in the best country in the world-bar none. I wish others would appreciate it, and have some gratitude for that fact- not repay us with treachery, and violence.