1 July 1916

[Red`s Ashtonic Lustpit]

How many posters have thought about the tremendous bravery and sacrifice of Kitchener`s New Army on the first day of the Battle Of The Somme?

I am not some bewhiskered old buffer, but I am enthralled and lost for words about the deeds from 90 years ago. These were civilians who (rightly or wrongly) joined up for what they felt to be the greater good.

When I see what goes on today, I wonder what the British populace would do in the same situation.

I am not trying to view this through rose tinted specs;my paternal grandfather was a WW1 Tommy and it always makes me emotional to think of it (I am only 41!).

Any views?

[Em-Gas]

My dad's dad fought in battle of the Somme ..... and so did my grampy's dad.

[dagest]

I'm sorry to say it, but I would stick my middle finger up at any modern day Kitchener. I ain't ever going to sacrifice my life for some dispute among greedy rich men.

[Em-Gas]

I'd quite like to be n the army actually.

I doubt I ever will sign-up though, for many reasons

1.I'm probably too short

2. No way am I strong/fit enough!

3. I would rebel at pepole telling me what to do

4. I've seen what it did to my dad .... who polishes his shows like, everyday! etc

[dagest]

I'd quite like to be n the army actually.

I doubt I ever will sign-up though, for many reasons

1.I'm probably too short

2. No way am I strong/fit enough!

3. I would rebel at pepole telling me what to do

4. I've seen what it did to my dad .... who polishes his shows like, everyday! etc

What type of shows does he perform? Are they all highly polished affairs?

[mozo]

I'd quite like to be n the army actually.

I doubt I ever will sign-up though, for many reasons

1.I'm probably too short

2. No way am I strong/fit enough!

3. I would rebel at pepole telling me what to do

4. I've seen what it did to my dad .... who polishes his shows like, everyday! etc

Other than that you're the ideal candidate though! :razz:

[KevinC]

In my teens I became interested in the War Poets such as Rupert Brooke, Sassoon, Owen, etc. The optimism of 1914 and the belief that "we'll be home before Christmas" was soon replaced by a terrible pessimism due to the terrible conditions faced by the conscrpts and volunteers.

By the time of the Somme the soldiers had endured almost two years of going nowhere, and the tactics of the Generals were largely producing lots of casualties with few military gains.

What happened on 1st July was simply slaughter, I feel sad that there was such an enormous loss of life.

[Red`s Ashtonic Lustpit]

Another Great War poet, Ivor Gurney hailed from Gloucestershire, and is buried in Twigworth Churchyard, near Gloucester. He survived the war, but was admitted to an institution, and died in the `30s. Would have been described as post traumatic stress disorder today, I guess.

[bucksred]

I'm sorry to say it, but I would stick my middle finger up at any modern day Kitchener. I ain't ever going to sacrifice my life for some dispute among greedy rich men.

So long as you respect those men who continue to serve their country, that is your right, Dagest.

As long as there is human life there will always be war. Sacrifices by all who served should never be forgotten. My grandfather fought almost the whole of WW1, thankfully not at the Somme. He NEVER spoke about it, EVER to us kids in the family.

[KevinC]

Another Great War poet, Ivor Gurney hailed from Gloucestershire, and is buried in Twigworth Churchyard, near Gloucester. He survived the war, but was admitted to an institution, and died in the `30s. Would have been described as post traumatic stress disorder today, I guess.

The treatment of those who suffered from "shell shock" was dreadful. Some were shot for cowardice while others were simply locked up. Psychotherapy was in its infancy and real treatment was practically nonexistent.

Sassoon managed to avoid a cortmartial for his anti-war poetry only by virtue of having been decorated earlier in the war. He died in Somerset in 1967.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

The treatment of those who suffered from "shell shock" was dreadful. Some were shot for cowardice while others were simply locked up. Psychotherapy was in its infancy and real treatment was practically nonexistent.

This issue is explored in the book The Man Who Invented Hitler. Whilst it was obviously linked to the German army of that time I feel it may also apply to the techniques used by the English army. It is shown that Hitler ended up in a mental hospital after being blinded in a gas attack, where as in fact the blindness was hysterical. At this time it was for the first time in history believed that 'shell shock' could be treated as it was a direct result of mental weakness and so the way to 'cure' it was to build up the mental strength of sufferers. This is where the feeling that a psychiatrist 'invented' Hitler as before and during the war Hitler wasn't considered a leader yet as soon as he left the mental hospital he set about building teh nazi party and quite quickly carried out teh Munich Putsch etc.

[readie14]

My son is on a school trip tomorrow to France and Belgium, recentley through the internet we have found out about his great great grandad who died in the great war. The school is visiting the cemetry where he is buried

and my son will be laying a wreath at his grave.

[KevinC]

My son is on a school trip tomorrow to France and Belgium, recentley through the internet we have found out about his great great grandad who died in the great war. The school is visiting the cemetry where he is buried

and my son will be laying a wreath at his grave.

I hope he feels a sense of "connectedness" with his great great grandad. Seeing those rows of headstones in the cemeteries in France and Belgium is moving beyond words.

[Mr Mosquito]

How many posters have thought about the tremendous bravery and sacrifice of Kitchener`s New Army on the first day of the Battle Of The Somme?

I am not some bewhiskered old buffer, but I am enthralled and lost for words about the deeds from 90 years ago. These were civilians who (rightly or wrongly) joined up for what they felt to be the greater good.

When I see what goes on today, I wonder what the British populace would do in the same situation.

I am not trying to view this through rose tinted specs;my paternal grandfather was a WW1 Tommy and it always makes me emotional to think of it (I am only 41!).

Any views?

My dear departed grandfather once remarked how he remembered waving his two uncles off to war at Temple Meads station both never to be seen again. They both went 'missing in action' at the Third Battle of Ypres or 'Passchendaele' that became infamous not only for the scale of casualties, but also for the mud. My grandfather bought many books about Passchendaele in the hope of gaining some clue as to how his uncle's vanished without trace. Very sad

[bucksred]

My dear departed grandfather once remarked how he remembered waving his two uncles off to war at Temple Meads station both never to be seen again. They both went 'missing in action' at the Third Battle of Ypres or 'Passchendaele' that became infamous not only for the scale of casualties, but also for the mud. My grandfather bought many books about Passchendaele in the hope of gaining some clue as to how his uncle's vanished without trace. Very sad

Gobbo,

When you see Menin Gate, Thiepval, Delville Wood or any of the German cemetaries in which 4, 6 or 8 of their dead are buried, in cemetaries smaller than the British ones next door, you appreciate the sheer scale of casualties of the First World War. The survivors were very brave men, but what memories they held in their minds till death eased the suffering and horror.

Brave brave men.

[Mr Mosquito]

Gobbo,

When you see Menin Gate, Thiepval, Delville Wood or any of the German cemetaries in which 4, 6 or 8 of their dead are buried, in cemetaries smaller than the British ones next door, you appreciate the sheer scale of casualties of the First World War. The survivors were very brave men, but what memories they held in their minds till death eased the suffering and horror.

Brave brave men.

Not the whole sorry tale mate. My great grandmother was so upset at the loss of her brothers that she hit the bottle in a very big way and destroyed herself - literally. Not an uncommon occurence for the wives, sisters and mothers of the dead WWI lads to destroy themselves in their grief. Terrible times and I don't feel too privileged to have heard of these sad times first hand from my own grandfather.

[bucksred]

Not the whole sorry tale mate. My great grandmother was so upset at the loss of her brothers that she hit the bottle in a very big way and destroyed herself - literally. Not an uncommon occurence for the wives, sisters and mothers of the dead WWI lads to destroy themselves in their grief. Terrible times and I don't feel too privileged to have heard of these sad times first hand from my own grandfather.

Gobbo, Another sad fact there. Aint that the truth too

Kidz, speak to our surviving WW2 vets, learn of their experiences, and respect their bravery, and sacrificie. Too many of our generation didnt do that for the WW1 vets...we should have.

[Red`s Ashtonic Lustpit]

My grandad died 1 month after I was born, in March 1965, from lung cancer. No doubt the fags greatly contributed, but also the dose of liquid mustard. This I think he got during Third Ypres in 1917, but for the rest of his life he was troubled by rashes/ skin sensitivity.

I regret never hearing first hand of his experiences, but according to my dad (old cliche) he almost never talked of it. The only tales he did recount were of men drowning in shell holes, due to the irredeemably wrecked drainage and abnormally high rainfall.

The names of Nonne Boschen, Polygon Wood, Frezenburg, Pilckem and Hill 60 are chillingly evocative of this lost breed. The Great War has a legendary and iconic status. We should not forget them.

[Nogbad the Bad]

The treatment of those who suffered from "shell shock" was dreadful. Some were shot for cowardice while others were simply locked up. Psychotherapy was in its infancy and real treatment was practically nonexistent.

Sassoon managed to avoid a cortmartial for his anti-war poetry only by virtue of having been decorated earlier in the war. He died in Somerset in 1967.

My Mum told me the story of a shell-shocked soldier who returned to Bradford-on-Avon after the First World War.

Unable to return to normal life he retired to a small cave by the river where he used to play as a boy.

Completely harmless, though due to his dishevelled appearance, a little frightening to children, he spent the rest of his life there. The locals understood and would bring him food.

I've visited the cave which is still there today. it is not high enough to stand up in and must have been uncomfortable, but you can clearly imagine 'Occie' sitting there day after day traumatised by his experiences in the trenches.

To the locals it is still referred to as his cave by name to this day, a fitting tribute to a very courageous man.

[mozo]

What strikes me when I read these saddening real-life stories is that war is something that should be avoided at all costs, and there's no excuse for politicians to throw our troops into pointless causes, certainly if only to aid the American crusade.

[Red`s Ashtonic Lustpit]

The treatment of those who suffered from "shell shock" was dreadful. Some were shot for cowardice while others were simply locked up. Psychotherapy was in its infancy and real treatment was practically nonexistent.

Sassoon managed to avoid a cortmartial for his anti-war poetry only by virtue of having been decorated earlier in the war. He died in Somerset in 1967.

Sassoon wrote a letter to a newspaper, denouncing the way the war was being conducted. A good account of this can be found in "Goodbye To All That" by Robert Graves.

[KevinC]

It all brings to mind the seriousness behind the comedy of Blackadder Goes Forth, where the lunacy and mismanagement of the conflict was satirised so brilliantly. Had anyone the courage to write that years earlier they would have been denounced as being unpatriotic.

[Mr Mosquito]

Gobbo, Another sad fact there. Aint that the truth too

Kidz, speak to our surviving WW2 vets, learn of their experiences, and respect their bravery, and sacrificie. Too many of our generation didnt do that for the WW1 vets...we should have.

In my mind's eye I clearly remember playing, along with my cousin at a very young age, with a massive pile of LEGO while earwigging on my grandfather and great uncle discussing their actions in WWII and what they'd been told of WWI. WWI was far more harrowing from what I remember them saying.

[bad_shrek]

These men are some of the greatest heros ever.

and it leads on from the What is England thread.

The Mates Brigades (or other names), the great sacrifices made to help the rest of europe, the never say never attitude. All this makes up what i feel is Englishness.

The two wars destroyed so much and we gained so little (infact Britain gained nothing, unlike russia and usa).

The only charity that i give to is the British Legion/ Poppy Appeal. As i feel they are the ones that we owe so much.

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.

[KevinC]

These men are some of the greatest heros ever.

and it leads on from the What is England thread.

The only charity that i give to is the British Legion/ Poppy Appeal. As i feel they are the ones that we owe so much.

There were servicement from all over the empire during WW I, not just England.

Well done for supporting the Legion. The welfare work done by the Legion today help so many people.

[bucksred]

There were servicement from all over the empire during WW I, not just England.

Well done for supporting the Legion. The welfare work done by the Legion today help so many people.

Including those wounded, or loved ones killed in recent wars like Ulster, Kosovo, The Falklands, Gulf Wars 1 & 2, and Afghanistan. It really makes a difference.

[KevinC]

Including those wounded, or loved ones killed in recent wars like Ulster, Kosovo, The Falklands, Gulf Wars 1 & 2, and Afghanistan. It really makes a difference.

Yes, even pacifists like me join the Legion (and not for the cheap pont at the club), there are so many former service people in dire need of assistance

[Guest MaloneFM]

Uncle Rog's ten pence worths.

After the Portugal game there were one or two sat outside on the pavement moping. I suggested they get off their arses as today was the first day of the battle of the Somme 90 years ago. And without them you wouldn't have a bleeding pavement to sit on.

One by one they all saw sense and stood up. Its only bloody football.

However.

The front page of the Sun that morning. 'Your country needs ROO' and Rooney in the Kitchener pose.

Still not worth wiping my wrinkly old arse in.

[barry_manc]

Sassoon managed to avoid a cortmartial for his anti-war poetry only by virtue of having been decorated earlier in the war. He died in Somerset in 1967.

What was the name of the poet that wrote about the frontline... He was welsh, died about a week before the end of the war, I'm 90% sure he was a WW1 poet... Wrote about chemical warfare and the gas attacks... Not very specific I know but he's very famous.

[KevinC]

What was the name of the poet that wrote about the frontline... He was welsh, died about a week before the end of the war, I'm 90% sure he was a WW1 poet... Wrote about chemical warfare and the gas attacks... Not very specific I know but he's very famous.

Wilfred Owen, wrote "Dulce et Decorum Est"

Uncle Rog's ten pence worths.

After the Portugal game there were one or two sat outside on the pavement moping. I suggested they get off their arses as today was the first day of the battle of the Somme 90 years ago. And without them you wouldn't have a bleeding pavement to sit on.

One by one they all saw sense and stood up. Its only bloody football.

However.

The front page of the Sun that morning. 'Your country needs ROO' and Rooney in the Kitchener pose.

Still not worth wiping my wrinkly old arse in.

The Sun has long since forgotten that the Second World War ended 61 years ago.

They are truly a bunch of ar*eholes. Can't think anyone would disagree.