steve lansdown

[bh_red]

A few things I think we could have gone to the fa and gone back to a C of E as our finances were so bad. It was Lansdown that said it was costing nearly a million pounds to set up the academy.

Do you except that had that money gone to funding players we would have gone up a long time ago also its up to the Chairman to keep an eye on the manager as I though Wilson had lost the plot a long time before he went.

I was not talking about the millennium play offs I was talking about the year we lost to Cardiff when we were poor up front sounds familiar

however if we had gone back to the C of E, which would have been a big step backwards for the club, we wouldn't have produced players to the quality of Skuse, Cotterill, Lita, Golbourne, Jennison, Frankie Artus, Tristan Plummer and others that are coming into the first team, as they wouldn't have had the same quality of coaching and the same quality of youth teams to play against which would have reduced the development.

Other younger players wouldn't have joined Bristol City because we wouldn't have an academy!

however this has been discussed endlessly and since it was last discussed the academy has proven itself to be a more than worth while scheme for developing quality young players for the 1st team,

without the likes of the forementioned players we would in alot more debt likely as we have had a few quality players from the adedemy and had a 3 very good transfer fee's that has come through players who have played for Academy teams.

[redsontour]

We could have always reinstated the academy when things got better and its only the last few years the academy has produced any outstanding players.

Sorry...I must be losing my mind here...surely as the point of the academy was to create outstanding players, then it is going to take time to do it, you take boys from one age and bring them through to senior level, and that is exactly what has happened?

There is a simple answer to your constant debating around the value (or lack of it as you insist) of a properly funded academy...

Off the top of your head, or with the use of intense research, how many of our young players were signed by premier clubs, or clubs with serious and worthwhile premiership ambitions, before Bristol City had an FA academy? How much were the total fees paid, and how was that money used...

Remember, clubs who deal with clubs with FA academies tread more more carefully than those clubs without ones...Do you seriously think that the FA, who partly fund the academy, would be happy with Chelsea taking a star academy player for next to nothing?

[bh_red]

I think if it had we would have gone up 5 year ago.We could have always reinstated the academy when things got better and its only the last few years the academy has produced any outstanding players.

7 years ago though the academy was already starting to produce players for the first team, players such as Burnell, A Brown and Matt Hill had already become key 1st team players,

5 years ago players such as Danny Coles had come through, since the academy players first broke into the first team in 2000 the quality of the players has got better and better! and yet you suggest that they should have scrapped it! if that was the case the like of Dave Cotterill would have never joined City! let alone got us £2m in transfer fee's

We have 3 players from our academy playing in the premiership, Lita, Cotterill and Rosenior, a number of players of playing in the championship such as Matt Hill & Danny Coles, Matt Hill himself rated by preston fans as one of the best defenders outside the premiership, plus Scott Golbourne who will be a playing in the Prem at some point

These players have come through and done well, others who didn't do so well at City have still ended up playing in League 1/2, players such as Amankwaah, Burnell, Odejayi, Spencer and others, players who may not have been great for City, but are early examples of players who have come through the Bristol City system and are playing league football,

Before the Academy was setup the club just DIDN'T produce young players.

[Guest ashtonyate]

7 years ago though the academy was already starting to produce players for the first team, players such as Burnell, A Brown and Matt Hill had already become key 1st team players,

5 years ago players such as Danny Coles had come through, since the academy players first broke into the first team in 2000 the quality of the players has got better and better! and yet you suggest that they should have scrapped it! if that was the case the like of Dave Cotterill would have never joined City! let alone got us £2m in transfer fee's

We have 3 players from our academy playing in the premiership, Lita, Cotterill and Rosenior, a number of players of playing in the championship such as Matt Hill & Danny Coles, Matt Hill himself rated by preston fans as one of the best defenders outside the premiership, plus Scott Golbourne who will be a playing in the Prem at some point

These players have come through and done well, others who didn't do so well at City have still ended up playing in League 1/2, players such as Amankwaah, Burnell, Odejayi, Spencer and others, players who may not have been great for City, but are early examples of players who have come through the Bristol City system and are playing league football,

Before the Academy was setup the club just DIDN'T produce young players.

There is only one player there that did City any good thats Cotterill the rest were sold because their contract was near the end Lita. Hill had a condition in his contract that he could talk to other teams when he signed his contract with City.Rosenior the less said about that the better Amankwaah and the rest could have been pick up like we have with the players from Cheltenham and wycombe and City has alway produced good young players over the years

[bh_red]

There is only one player there that did City any good thats Cotterill the rest were sold because their contract was near the end Lita. Hill had a condition in his contract that he could talk to other teams when he signed his contract with City.Rosenior the less said about that the better Amankwaah and the rest could have been pick up like we have with the players from Cheltenham and wycombe and City has alway produced good young players over the years

WHAT!!!!! the fact is the ACADEMY has produced quality players, Cotts, Matt Hill, Coles, Rosenior and lita are all proven FACT that the academy has produced Quality!

in recent years prior to the academy what players have City produced? or do you deem the likes of Matt Hewlett, Matty Bryant, Colin Loss, Paul Milson among others as quality players? I don't! in the late 80's/90's City have barely produced a players of note, the only one really is Rob Newman in all that time.

[jellyred]

There is only one player there that did City any good thats Cotterill the rest were sold because their contract was near the end Lita. Hill had a condition in his contract that he could talk to other teams when he signed his contract with City.Rosenior the less said about that the better Amankwaah and the rest could have been pick up like we have with the players from Cheltenham and wycombe and City has alway produced good young players over the years

How can you say that it was only one player? Are you being deliberately stupid? Also does it matter when they were sold, they still went for good money.

The whole thrux of the argument from BH_Red has been the quality of player coming through and not just how much they have gone for. This fact appears to have been lost on you though.

Anyway bored already, severe sense of deja vu.

[old_man_terry]

There is only one player there that did City any good thats Cotterill the rest were sold because their contract was near the end Lita. Hill had a condition in his contract that he could talk to other teams when he signed his contract with City.Rosenior the less said about that the better Amankwaah and the rest could have been pick up like we have with the players from Cheltenham and wycombe and City has alway produced good young players over the years

we may not have got the transfer fee in some cases that the players deserved such as Rosenior, however we do have a sell on for, surely just a matter of time until he is in the england squad, however Lita and Cotterill are also playing the premiership and have brought in £3m so far, but also have sell on fee's!

Matt Hill will be in the Prem before long and others are doing well in the championship and this league, it PROVES that the academy is working and going back to a centre of excellence would have put this club in even more debt.

Quality decent players over the years? name some only one I can think of is Rob Newman apart from that we have produced nothing for years.

[Guest ashtonyate]

we may not have got the transfer fee in some cases that the players deserved such as Rosenior, however we do have a sell on for, surely just a matter of time until he is in the england squad, however Lita and Cotterill are also playing the premiership and have brought in £3m so far, but also have sell on fee's!

Matt Hill will be in the Prem before long and others are doing well in the championship and this league, it PROVES that the academy is working and going back to a centre of excellence would have put this club in even more debt.

Quality decent players over the years? name some only one I can think of is Rob Newman apart from that we have produced nothing for years.

With the 3 million and the other money from academy players I still think the academy is still in the red, and most of the team that took us into the first division were homegrown and I still say having an academy has stopped us from getting promotion before now

with the money it has cost.

[kiwicolin]

Why the club is in debt is a lot to do with lansdown how much has the Tinnion affair cost the club how come he aloud us to pay 320k

for a raw young scots man who had scored a few goals in scotland.I am not really have a go at Lansdown although it may seem that way but don,t make out that is better than he is a average chairman with a poor record as this period is poorest time in City records.

i think we were in debt when scott davidson was chairman.steve was on the board.

[bh_red]

With the 3 million and the other money from academy players I still think the academy is still in the red, and most of the team that took us into the first division were homegrown and I still say having an academy has stopped us from getting promotion before now

with the money it has cost.

think you will find alot of them were scottish and had come from other clubs, how many were ACTUALLY Bristol born or had came through our youth system? only a couple/

the club has brought in just over £4m in the time on transfer fee's with possibly a few more million in the future if Rosenior, Lita, Hill and Cotterill move to big and better clubs, from the money that has gone into it and the results that it has brought out in players and the amount of games that they have played for the club, the club has had alot more money to be able to spend on players and are now continuing to produce a every lasting line of quality youngsters.

The academy has without doubt proved itself to be an OVER-WHELMING success to the club, despite all the money that has been put into it's setting up, we have still managed to spend more money than at any other time in the clubs history, and yet you still moan that not enough as been spent.

[BCFC_Dan]

Oh dear Lord, not this again!

Rosenior won us the LDV trophy, and therefore the associated prize money, almost single-handedly.

Leroy and Cotterill netted us £3m in transfer fees.

Hill, Coles and others brought in further money.

Totalled up, I reckon around £4m of income can be directly attributed to the Academy.

[downendcity]

With the track record it now has the Academy must now be able to attract young players of a higher standard than it would a few years ago.

A young player considering which pro club to join has to think about his career development and the opportunities he will get at his chosen club. I suspect that every youngster would want to be at Chelsea/Man U or Arsenal but unless you are foreign or world class at 18 years of age, what chance will you ever get to break into the first team.

Our academy now has a track record of premiership players who got their first team chance at City while still very young ( Lita, Rosenior and Cotteril) Championship players who did ther same (Matt Hill and Danny Coles) and current players like Cole Skuse and JMW who have had the same opportunity. Not only does it show that the club does give oportunities to the youngsters with ability but that the academy is turning out talented pro footballers, capable of moving to bigger clubs and playing at the very top of the game.

The better the raw material we put in the front end the better the finished article we will produce. So what if we produce gems like Lita and Cotteril and end up having to sell them for decent transfer fees - that will always happen? But not all of them will move on and our own squad will improve as a result. When we get promotion the academy becomes even more attractive because we can offer a higher standard for aspiring academy graduates and the better youngsters will be more inclined to further their careers by staying at City if they can play higher standard of first team football.

The academy is a long term investment in this clubs future. While we remain in this division much of that investment return will be in transfer fees for the best youngsters but at Championship level, or higher, the return on that investment will be measured much more in the quality and ability of our first team squad.

[Nibor]

With the 3 million and the other money from academy players I still think the academy is still in the red, and most of the team that took us into the first division were homegrown and I still say having an academy has stopped us from getting promotion before now

with the money it has cost.

Well, you're talking out of your arse.

The academy has made well over £4m in transfer fees and is well in the black from that alone - and that's without considering the amount we've saved by not having to pay fees for players. Several of the players who've left have sell on clauses that stand to make us millions more in the future.

Having an academy has in no way stopped us from getting promotion because the relatively small amount of money it has cost compared to bringing in players would not have even come close to making the difference.

What has stopped us getting promotion more than anything is bringing in mediocre players for far too much money, which is resultant from poor decisions by managers and too much money thrown at them by SL.

[SE23Red]

With the 3 million and the other money from academy players I still think the academy is still in the red, and most of the team that took us into the first division were homegrown and I still say having an academy has stopped us from getting promotion before now

with the money it has cost.

What you fail to understand is that it is not simply either invest in the academy or invest in the first team, we have seen both. Unfortunately we have had first team managers who have failed to use the money given to them half as wisely as the money spent in the academy.

The academy has been seen as an investment since the day it was set up - it is now starting to pay for itself in exactly the way those with far greater foresight than yourself imagined.

I very much doubt the board would have been prepared to put up with the losses we have seen in recent years without the vision of what the academy would be today and in years to come. So they wouldn't have diverted the academy money into a larger transfer kitty, they would have run the club more prudently instead.

[tompo]

think you will find alot of them were scottish and had come from other clubs, how many were ACTUALLY Bristol born or had came through our youth system? only a couple/

That team was a mixture of Scots and local lads. Some of the Scots such as Gow and Ritchie joined us straight from school. Others like Sweeney and Gillies joined from other clubs.

Of the local lads, most came through the youth ranks. However, it's worth remembering that Paul Cheesley was a local lad who slipped through our net as a schoolboy and we had to pay a fee to sign him from Norwich.

[follower]

He has had the time just bad judgement in most cases, and still now we should have got a new front man which may well come back to haunt us at the end of the season.

Coco the clown is alive and living in Yate.

[Guest ashtonyate]

What you fail to understand is that it is not simply either invest in the academy or invest in the first team, we have seen both. Unfortunately we have had first team managers who have failed to use the money given to them half as wisely as the money spent in the academy.

The academy has been seen as an investment since the day it was set up - it is now starting to pay for itself in exactly the way those with far greater foresight than yourself imagined.

I very much doubt the board would have been prepared to put up with the losses we have seen in recent years without the vision of what the academy would be today and in years to come. So they wouldn't have diverted the academy money into a larger transfer kitty, they would have run the club more prudently instead.

The Academe has had little effect on where the team is today the only player at the moment who is a first team regular is col skuse and sometimes Williams who is only in through injury when he gets in all the rest have had very little impact on the first team now thats the truth we may have some good youngsters coming through but there is no guarantee they will play for city we will wait and see what happens with Plummer

[bh_red]

The Academe has had little effect on where the team is today the only player at the moment who is a first team regular is col skuse and sometimes Williams who is only in through injury when he gets in all the rest have had very little impact on the first team now thats the truth we may have some good youngsters coming through but there is no guarantee they will play for city we will wait and see what happens with Plummer

am I the only one who doesn't understand this??? this is totally not relevant, the fact is that it's had a MASSIVE effect, money brought into the club from other sales has brought in new signings. Jennison is a very young player who has actually played alot of games and had a massive effect in our season the boy has already shown the potential to be a very good player in the future, as for Plummer the fact various premiership club have expressed interest in the player show that the kid is going to be a superstar

The thing is without out shadow of a doubt is that you have personally been banging on moaning about the academy saying how rubbish it is for the last 2 years on this forum, what has happened since has totally and utterly proven in sold fact that the Academy is and has been a total success since it was set up.

99.9% of people know this, you are a minority of one!

[SE23Red]

The Academe has had little effect on where the team is today the only player at the moment who is a first team regular is col skuse and sometimes Williams who is only in through injury when he gets in all the rest have had very little impact on the first team now thats the truth we may have some good youngsters coming through but there is no guarantee they will play for city we will wait and see what happens with Plummer

The first and most important measure of the success of the academy is the quality of the players it produces. I can only guess that you are on a wind up to suggest that the academy is a waste of money in the very week we see two of the players it has produced set to represent England at U-21 level, one for Wales at full international level, and another at U-21. Below that we have a number of Welsh and English U-19 internationals. I am proud of that achievement - are you?

[Guest ashtonyate]

The first and most important measure of the success of the academy is the quality of the players it produces. I can only guess that you are on a wind up to suggest that the academy is a waste of money in the very week we see two of the players it has produced set to represent England at U-21 level, one for Wales at full international level, and another at U-21. Below that we have a number of Welsh and English U-19 internationals. I am proud of that achievement - are you?

But most of these player have had no impact at all at Aston Gate and thats what matters to me not seeing Lita at reading or rosenion at Fulham or Cottrell at Wigan in fact I don't give a monkey about them playing for the u21 they have left the club good luck

[bh_red]

But most of these player have had no impact at all at Aston Gate and thats what matters to me not seeing Lita at reading or rosenion at Fulham or Cottrell at Wigan in fact I don't give a monkey about them playing for the u21 they have left the club good luck

however it does matter that they do well there, decent sell on fee's for all players, it's in our interest to hope for them to perform well and improve, as if/when they make their next transfer moves the club will profit significantly to the tune of a likely couple of million, the fact Liam Rosenior is likely to be in the England Squad by the end of the season improves the chances of us getting a big amount of money in the future.

alot of these players though did have an impact, Rosenior won us the LDV and significant prize money, Lita scored over 20 goals in the season where we just missed the play-offs, Cotterill played key roles in getting us point in previous and this season, other players such as Hill, Coles & other have played key roles in City's recent future.

[Guest ashtonyate]

am I the only one who doesn't understand this??? this is totally not relevant, the fact is that it's had a MASSIVE effect, money brought into the club from other sales has brought in new signings. Jennison is a very young player who has actually played alot of games and had a massive effect in our season the boy has already shown the potential to be a very good player in the future, as for Plummer the fact various premiership club have expressed interest in the player show that the kid is going to be a superstar

The thing is without out shadow of a doubt is that you have personally been banging on moaning about the academy saying how rubbish it is for the last 2 years

on this forum, what has happened since has totally and utterly prov

I am not saying the Academy is rubbish I am saying the system that it operates in is rubbish. It allows player who owe their place in the game to their academy club to move to another club and does not give the producing club a fair reward for their efforts.

The way the contracts operates is that their academy club are forced to sell players whether they want to or not or face a tribunal which will give them peanut's had Golborne and And the player that moved to Preston leave with out hardly kicking a ball in the first team and Golbourne is on loan to wycombe.

I don't think we would have sold Lita to Reading if his contract had longer to run, Cottrell is the only player I think we have had a good deal on and as for the academy paying for its self you are having a laugh

[jellyred]

But they have made an impact.

Lita - kept us looking half respectable under tinman

Rosenior - Won us the LDV

Coles - Was a rock in defence for most of his time here

Hill - Was a quality defender who gave his all

Burnell - Solid midfielder that helped with some of the 1-0 wins under wilson

Cotterill - probably the best young player we've had (in my opinion)

Amankwah - Always looked good but was unlucky to break his neck

Anyinsah - Promised a lot and looked impressive before joing Preston

Skuse - Currently a first team regular

Myre Williams - Showing a lot of promise and is starting to impact games

There are others but I can't be bothered to go on

[jellyred]

as for the academy paying for its self you are having a laugh

I think you are the one having a laugh ashtonyate, with over £4m in transfers received from academy graduates it has quite obviously paid for itself. But hey, why use facts.

[bh_red]

but that's not a problem of the academy system, that is FOOTBALL IN GENERAL and it happens to all clubs regardless of whether of not it is an academy player or not, the prove fact is the players produced from the academy have been far greater quality (and quantity) of any previous system we have had in place, if you directly compare our academy and rovers Centre of Excellence, you can see very easily how many players each club have produced which have ended up League/Non League.

the fact is for Academy has proven without a doubt to be a GREAT SUCCESS for Bristol City, as for the academy paying for itself, it has with the transfer fee's that have been brought into the club club and with the quality of players we currently have at the club, Lita didn't want to play for City anymore so we sold him, simple as that.

[SE23Red]

But most of these player have had no impact at all at Aston Gate and thats what matters to me not seeing Lita at reading or rosenion at Fulham or Cottrell at Wigan in fact I don't give a monkey about them playing for the u21 they have left the club good luck

Of course they made an impact. Lita scoring more goals than anyone in a season in the last 10 years, Rosenior winning us our only trophy in that time.

As SL said in his article much earlier in this thread the likes of Wilson, Artus and the other 1st year pros are playing a role this season. Without them in the reserve team we would have to have an even bigger squad of senior players, no doubt cosing us even more in fees, signing on fees and wages. With that in mind the academy pays for itself without the million pound transfers we have seen each of the last two years.

Yes the system it operates in could be fairer, the way certain contracts were dealt with could have been better, but these are not valid reasons not to have an academy. What would the academy have to achieve for you to be a supporter of it?

[Nibor]

What would the academy have to achieve for you to be a supporter of it?

A team full of XI ex academy players could lead us to 6 consecutive champions league trophies and he still wouldn't support it.

I just hope we sell Plummer in the summer for £4m. Selling Cotterill for £2m got us 6 months of respite from Ashtonyate's anti-youth diatribe - £4m would be a year free of it?

[SE23Red]

A team full of XI ex academy players could lead us to 6 consecutive champions league trophies and he still wouldn't support it.

I just hope we sell Plummer in the summer for £4m. Selling Cotterill for £2m got us 6 months of respite from Ashtonyate's anti-youth diatribe - £4m would be a year free of it?

No - as you can tell from this thread figures are not his strong point so it would be seen as another player lost with no gain.

I just hope we get a chance to decide to sell Plummer, at the moment I can't see it going any other way than the Arsenal led FA deciding how much Arsenal pay us for him

[Nibor]

No - as you can tell from this thread figures are not his strong point so it would be seen as another player lost with no gain.

I just hope we get a chance to decide to sell Plummer, at the moment I can't see it going any other way than the Arsenal led FA deciding how much Arsenal pay us for him

The Arsenal thing was a hoax, I'm pretty sure he'll sign.

EDIT: Do indeed agree about the people who benefit from the rules making them, what football needs is a club willing to challenge that sort of crap in the european legal system.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Of course they made an impact. Lita scoring more goals than anyone in a season in the last 10 years, Rosenior winning us our only trophy in that time.

As SL said in his article much earlier in this thread the likes of Wilson, Artus and the other 1st year pros are playing a role this season. Without them in the reserve team we would have to have an even bigger squad of senior players, no doubt cosing us even more in fees, signing on fees and wages. With that in mind the academy pays for itself without the million pound transfers we have seen each of the last two years.

Yes the system it operates in could be fairer, the way certain contracts were dealt with could have been better, but these are not valid reasons not to have an academy. What would the academy have to achieve for you to be a supporter of it?

Before Bosman I was happy with us bring on young players as we could decide when and to who we sold to we could offer a player a contract if a other team wanted him we could negotiate a price.

Now if a player does want to sign he can just see his contract out or blackmail the club to sell him cheaply we can put sell on clauses in his contract but if he sees out his contract with the club or if he is a free agent and resign for the club we still don't get any further fee for him.

If Lita had 2 1/2 contract on him do you think we would have sold him and if we had it would be a lot more than a million.You quote Wilson Artus Plummer good prospect how much would they have been worth before Bosman we will be lucky to get a million for the lot of them.

A small team like City cannot offer the money that big clubs can until we can afford that type of money we are wasting our time with an academy

And that's the way I see the acadmy lark, We spend 100 of K for the academy but cant afford a good striker this club lives in cloud cuckoo land