Shares In BCFC

[Jay]

And they won't by investing through the supporters trust. The only issues that will get taken up will be those where the majority of members (at best) or committee (at worst) wish to take forward.

If there is an issue which deeply divides the supporters - and just read the threads, there are plenty, the Trust will not be acting in a way which many fans oppose. This is not a knock at the Trust, but to think it represents the views of all the supporters is nonsense. It is a pressure group with what I assume to be a significant number of members (although I don't know how many), its shareholding is an irrelevance.

Excuse the forward response here, but I find your comments to be that of someone that has not truly researched the role and principles of the Supporters Trust. (www.bristolcityst.org.uk if you fancy some light reading).

The Trust is set up by fans for fans. The issues it takes up are those that are seen to be of importance to ALL FANS. Yes, the Trust aims to represent all fans but, as I'm sure you know, this is virtually impossible if you wish to consider every last aspect of the Club. However, what the Trust does do is help deal with the issues that can effect fans by using their relationship with the Club to help bring about positive change. Let me offer you two examples from the past week or so.

1) The Trust put together a proposal for the Club to consider regarding the recent ticketing issues. Included within this proposal was an offer of FREE help from fans to help other fans in these situations. If we beat Middlesborough, the Club will have 3 days to shift tickets for the next game at home (WBA). A meeting was then held with the Club to discuss these ideas and how they can be implimented. Is this not a case of the Trust representing all fans? None of us want ticketing problems do we?

2) The campaign to get the East End back open came to a head last week when the Club agreed to meet with the fans behind this campaign. Whilst not heavily involved, the Trust somewhat brokered the situation. The Club recognises the commitment & organisational skills of the Trust and allowed them to chair the meeting. Ok, so this doesn't necessarily deal with the representation of all fans in one sense but in another you could argue that it does. I'll explain: Many want the EE open for the sake of improving atmosphere. It's a chance for the singers and noise-makers of this club to congregate in an area that has unreserved seating. It's an ideal breeding ground for positive noise. The players & manager have all mentioned the effect of a good, noisey & supportive crowd has. So, by having the EE back open, all fans may benefit in one sense.

Your comment about the Trust being a pressure group is ignorant. The relationship between the Club and the Trust is good. It's not harmonious but there is mutual respect. We do not enter meetings obstreperously and making hard, uncompromising demands. We aim to bridge the gap between fans & Club by bringing about positive change.

With none of the rights of a shareholder. And you said you become a shareholder, which you don't.

The idea of owning shares as a collective puts fans in a stakeholder position. The more shares we have, the stronger we become ("we" being the fans/members).

We have the same rights as other singular shareholders but it's a collective. It doesn't mean that all Trust members can attend the club AGM but it does allow representatives to attend. The Trust is bound by a constitution and it's board has to be officially and democratically elected.

Why not come along to a meeting or read up more? Your views are interesting as it suggests that the Trust may need to communicate the basics a little more.

[exiledinwatford]

Excuse the forward response here, but I find your comments to be that of someone that has not truly researched the role and principles of the Supporters Trust. (www.bristolcityst.org.uk if you fancy some light reading).

The Trust is set up by fans for fans. The issues it takes up are those that are seen to be of importance to ALL FANS. Yes, the Trust aims to represent all fans but, as I'm sure you know, this is virtually impossible if you wish to consider every last aspect of the Club. However, what the Trust does do is help deal with the issues that can effect fans by using their relationship with the Club to help bring about positive change. Let me offer you two examples from the past week or so.

1) The Trust put together a proposal for the Club to consider regarding the recent ticketing issues. Included within this proposal was an offer of FREE help from fans to help other fans in these situations. If we beat Middlesborough, the Club will have 3 days to shift tickets for the next game at home (WBA). A meeting was then held with the Club to discuss these ideas and how they can be implimented. Is this not a case of the Trust representing all fans? None of us want ticketing problems do we?

2) The campaign to get the East End back open came to a head last week when the Club agreed to meet with the fans behind this campaign. Whilst not heavily involved, the Trust somewhat brokered the situation. The Club recognises the commitment & organisational skills of the Trust and allowed them to chair the meeting. Ok, so this doesn't necessarily deal with the representation of all fans in one sense but in another you could argue that it does. I'll explain: Many want the EE open for the sake of improving atmosphere. It's a chance for the singers and noise-makers of this club to congregate in an area that has unreserved seating. It's an ideal breeding ground for positive noise. The players & manager have all mentioned the effect of a good, noisey & supportive crowd has. So, by having the EE back open, all fans may benefit in one sense.

Your comment about the Trust being a pressure group is ignorant. The relationship between the Club and the Trust is good. It's not harmonious but there is mutual respect. We do not enter meetings obstreperously and making hard, uncompromising demands. We aim to bridge the gap between fans & Club by bringing about positive change.

The idea of owning shares as a collective puts fans in a stakeholder position. The more shares we have, the stronger we become ("we" being the fans/members).

We have the same rights as other singular shareholders but it's a collective. It doesn't mean that all Trust members can attend the club AGM but it does allow representatives to attend. The Trust is bound by a constitution and it's board has to be officially and democratically elected.

Why not come along to a meeting or read up more? Your views are interesting as it suggests that the Trust may need to communicate the basics a little more.

Surely this isn't a case of either or is it? Why not join the ST if you want to and continue to hold/buy your own shares if you want to?

[Jay]

Surely this isn't a case of either or is it? Why not join the ST if you want to and continue to hold/buy your own shares if you want to?

Indeed. Whilst people can proxy their shares to the Trust, they aren't obliged to.

[lukejones2]

With none of the rights of a shareholder. And you said you become a shareholder, which you don't.

Hi mate, you actually do. Being a member of the Trust would mean you were a sharehiolder of the Trust and therefore you would own a proportion of the shares owned by the Trust. In approximate terms, join today and be member 360ish, you would have 1 360th of the 2,500 Bristol City Holdings Limited shares currently owned by the Trust.

So by becomeing a member you would own shares in Bristol City Football Club. That is a fact. You do become a shareholder.

[swindlered]

With none of the rights of a shareholder. And you said you become a shareholder, which you don't.

To rehash an earlier post from what I can gather the main benefits of being a shareholder are.

Name on a board within AG.

Cachet from owning shares.

Right to attend AGM.

Right to ask questions at the AGM.

Right to be ignored by the club if and when it sees fit.

Whereas with the Trust.

No name on a board although if thats deemed to be a major reason preventing fans from joining we could certainly look into it.

Personal satisfaction from doing something pro-active to benefit other fans and work towards safe-guarding the clubs future (not a problem at the moment admittedly but what if Steve L warps into Micheal Knighton).

Right to attend ST AGM (though we're going to extend that to non-shareholders in any case).

No right to ask questions at the AGM although as the Trust is a shareholder you could ask via the Trust. This may not be necessary though given that the Trust meets regularly with club officials meaning that important issues can be raised immediately rather than annually.

Same right to be ignored but the Trust has made a difference already on two key issues in regards to ticketing and the east end. Its my firm belief that the East End meeting would have taken place irrespective of whether the Trust existed. What the Trust was able to do was to mediate between two sides who were vehemently opposed at one stage. The ticketing issue is the more likely to have remained as it was without Trust involvement.

Apart from the cachet aspect I see no outstanding reason to own shares in the club as all of the other benefits can equally be achieved through the Trust.

Jay - what does obstreperously mean?

[Jay]

[RedM]

So the ST holds 2500 Bristol city holdings limited shares. Are these different shares from what Dorset, and others, are hoping to buy, the ones which have a waiting list?

I have shares and my name on the plaque, but can't remember what they are called? I guess they aren't the same thing as isn't the club now split into 2 companies now, the football and the stadium? so which company have I and others got shares in?

[tompo]

So the ST holds 2500 Bristol city holdings limited shares. Are these different shares from what Dorset, and others, are hoping to buy, the ones which have a waiting list?

I have shares and my name on the plaque, but can't remember what they are called? I guess they aren't the same thing as isn't the club now split into 2 companies now, the football and the stadium? so which company have I and others got shares in?

I am sure the accountants out there will be able to confirm but the club is split into three.

Ashton Gate (Stadium) Ltd , BCFC Ltd and Ashton Gate (Holdings) Ltd. Ashton Gate (Stadium) Ltd and BCFC Ltd both come under the umbrella of Ashton Gate (Holdings) Ltd.

I obviously cannot comment on other people's shares but the Trust purchased shares in AG Holdings. The money from the share purchase was earmarked for improving the facilities at the the training ground.

[Eddie Hitler]

I've got 2,000 shares. I originally bought 750 (then 75 but subsequently subdivided 10 for 1) when shares were made available by Scott Davidson to all supporters club members and then a further 1,250 from the 2004 rights issue. Steve Lansdown noted at the time how poorly the rights issue was supported by existing shareholders (it was done requesting all shareholders to take some of the financial burden off the active directors) so I got a letter of thanks for my ongoing support.

The Scott Davidson general issue in 96 was rare as clubs don't generally want loads of little shareholders due to the admin costs so I can't see them doing it again. This issue was a big success as it came with extras such as signed squad photos for five years if you bought enough.

As has been mentioned if you want shares you register at Burges Salmon as a buyer and they match you with a seller when they come along. I have no idea of the current price but the font of all knowledge Red Goblin (or OC as he is now known) had an idea last time this came up.

Anyway...

Whilst I'm not about to gift these to the ST (hey, that's a few quid tied up (=lost) there) I'm happy to appoint them as my proxy at the AGM so when it comes around in October so you get my votes. Post a message on here when the AGM papers come out as to who is the ST representative at the meeting and I'll write them in.

[Drew Peacock]

Hi mate, you actually do. Being a member of the Trust would mean you were a sharehiolder of the Trust and therefore you would own a proportion of the shares owned by the Trust. In approximate terms, join today and be member 360ish, you would have 1 360th of the 2,500 Bristol City Holdings Limited shares currently owned by the Trust.

So by becomeing a member you would own shares in Bristol City Football Club. That is a fact. You do become a shareholder.

Hi mate, no you don't. Your name is not on the register of members, you are not a shareholder.

[Drew Peacock]

Personal satisfaction from doing something pro-active to benefit other fans and work towards safe-guarding the clubs future (not a problem at the moment admittedly but what if Steve L warps into Micheal Knighton).

Then as a minority shareholder you could do little about it.

[Drew Peacock]

Excuse the forward response here, but I find your comments to be that of someone that has not truly researched the role and principles of the Supporters Trust. (www.bristolcityst.org.uk if you fancy some light reading).

The Trust is set up by fans for fans. The issues it takes up are those that are seen to be of importance to ALL FANS. Yes, the Trust aims to represent all fans but, as I'm sure you know, this is virtually impossible if you wish to consider every last aspect of the Club. However, what the Trust does do is help deal with the issues that can effect fans by using their relationship with the Club to help bring about positive change. Let me offer you two examples from the past week or so.

1) The Trust put together a proposal for the Club to consider regarding the recent ticketing issues. Included within this proposal was an offer of FREE help from fans to help other fans in these situations. If we beat Middlesborough, the Club will have 3 days to shift tickets for the next game at home (WBA). A meeting was then held with the Club to discuss these ideas and how they can be implimented. Is this not a case of the Trust representing all fans? None of us want ticketing problems do we?

2) The campaign to get the East End back open came to a head last week when the Club agreed to meet with the fans behind this campaign. Whilst not heavily involved, the Trust somewhat brokered the situation. The Club recognises the commitment & organisational skills of the Trust and allowed them to chair the meeting. Ok, so this doesn't necessarily deal with the representation of all fans in one sense but in another you could argue that it does. I'll explain: Many want the EE open for the sake of improving atmosphere. It's a chance for the singers and noise-makers of this club to congregate in an area that has unreserved seating. It's an ideal breeding ground for positive noise. The players & manager have all mentioned the effect of a good, noisey & supportive crowd has. So, by having the EE back open, all fans may benefit in one sense.

Your comment about the Trust being a pressure group is ignorant. The relationship between the Club and the Trust is good. It's not harmonious but there is mutual respect. We do not enter meetings obstreperously and making hard, uncompromising demands. We aim to bridge the gap between fans & Club by bringing about positive change.

The idea of owning shares as a collective puts fans in a stakeholder position. The more shares we have, the stronger we become ("we" being the fans/members).

We have the same rights as other singular shareholders but it's a collective. It doesn't mean that all Trust members can attend the club AGM but it does allow representatives to attend. The Trust is bound by a constitution and it's board has to be officially and democratically elected.

Why not come along to a meeting or read up more? Your views are interesting as it suggests that the Trust may need to communicate the basics a little more.

Your reply is taking the thread way from share ownership, which I must admit I helped, and could perhaps be dumped on a separate thread?

But I think your answer supports my view that the Supporters Trust is a pressure group. If it is there to promote what the fans want, be it a minority or a majority, it is a pressure group, or a lobby group if you prefer.

[Jay]

Your reply is taking the thread way from share ownership, which I must admit I helped, and could perhaps be dumped on a separate thread?

I don't agree. My reply was in response to your post. Within your post you had what I'd consider to be misconceptions so these were addressed at the same time.

But I think your answer supports my view that the Supporters Trust is a pressure group. If it is there to promote what the fans want, be it a minority or a majority, it is a pressure group, or a lobby group if you prefer.

Are you on a wind up? Your comments are almost making the Trust out to be something sinister. Come along one day, learn more & develop an informed opinion. The Trust enters in to diplomatic discussions with the Club and works with it. It tries (& successfully I might add) to portray the thoughts & feelings of fans as best as possible.

Anyway, keep this on topic here on in & discuss the shares. PM me or any Trust member if you want to discuss the Trust or start a new thread. You could also consider using the Trust forum: Link

[Drew Peacock]

I don't agree. My reply was in response to your post. Within your post you had what I'd consider to be misconceptions so these were addressed at the same time.

Only trying to be helpful

Are you on a wind up?

No

Your comments are almost making the Trust out to be something sinister.

Eh? How on earth do you make that out?

Come along one day, learn more & develop an informed opinion. The Trust enters in to diplomatic discussions with the Club and works with it. It tries (& successfully I might add) to portray the thoughts & feelings of fans as best as possible.

That's what a lobby group does. There is nothing sinister about it whatsoever, if fans want to get things changed they need to get together & get organised.

Like I said to someone else, read what I said, not what you think I said.

[swindlered]

Only trying to be helpful

No

Eh? How on earth do you make that out?

That's what a lobby group does. There is nothing sinister about it whatsoever, if fans want to get things changed they need to get together & get organised.

Like I said to someone else, read what I said, not what you think I said.

I think that Drew is partly right and Jay is partly right on this one. The Trust does aim to influence those with the power to make decisions which is what pressure groups do but also aims to attain power for itself which is not a normal trait for a pressure group. The term 'pressure' has negative connotations as it can conjure up images of organisations such as the ALF hence Jays objection to the term.

A lobby group or interest group would be a more acceptable definition.

[Drew Peacock]

I think that Drew is partly right and Jay is partly right on this one. The Trust does aim to influence those with the power to make decisions which is what pressure groups do but also aims to attain power for itself which is not a normal trait for a pressure group. The term 'pressure' has negative connotations as it can conjure up images of organisations such as the ALF hence Jays objection to the term.

A lobby group or interest group would be a more acceptable definition.

The ALF is a terrorist organisation NOT a pressure group.

[SE23Red]

Hi mate, you actually do. Being a member of the Trust would mean you were a sharehiolder of the Trust and therefore you would own a proportion of the shares owned by the Trust. In approximate terms, join today and be member 360ish, you would have 1 360th of the 2,500 Bristol City Holdings Limited shares currently owned by the Trust.

So by becomeing a member you would own shares in Bristol City Football Club. That is a fact. You do become a shareholder.

So if I join today I own 7 shares (1/360th of 2,500 shares). If I leave tomorrow do I retain my 7 shares?

[bucksred]

The ALF is a terrorist organisation NOT a pressure group.

Spot on.........just ask people in Oxford.

seriously though as an An ST member, I reckon the best way forward is for everyone is to be either in the ST and have shares that way, and if you want to, have your own shares....job done we all win.

We are the people, for City Supporters, by City Supporters, forever City Supporters :clapping:

[arpaul]

Dorset Join the Supporters Trust and you become a shareholder instantly!

Question, If you don't have any shares, but join the supporters Trust, are you entitled to gain entry to the AGM ?

Question, In the past, shareholders, like season ticket holders, sometimes had priority booking status. Will you get this if it occurs again?

Somehow, something just doesn't sit right with me.

Back in 1982, I like many others, stumped up a few pounds just so the money men would heavily invest in this fantastic club. BCFC survived, and my shares will stay with me until my dying day as a remembrance of those bleak days.

The Supporters Trust may have a seat at the Boardroom banqueting table, but have they enough luncheon vouchers to "tuck in"?

My voice, however, will be heard at the AGM

[Dorset_Cider]

Spot on.........just ask people in Oxford.

seriously though as an An ST member, I reckon the best way forward is for everyone is to be either in the ST and have shares that way, and if you want to, have your own shares....job done we all win.

We are the people, for City Supporters, by City Supporters, forever City Supporters :clapping:

But what if you are not interested in the supporters trust ?

Bucks............ it just is not the way forward.......... it might be for you and many others but it's just not my bag man

Is Steve L scared of releasing shares for the world out there....... you know the one outside the supporters trust?

I can't see how it is for the better of the club if on one hand we are told how we are losing millions but on the other stupid people like me would be prepared to lose money too...... but are only pointed towards a supporters trust that............ wait for it are almost nothing compared to the amount of people that might be prepared to (chuck) money away or speculate.... Hey SL did you have as much trouble gettting shares in Manchester United?

I bet the answer is no......... plus...... no I'll shut up now because I don't want those that believe in the supporters trust to get on my back......... as they obviously have not made their point well enough for people like me. I do not wish to underestimate their contribution or efforts but they do no represent all the fans and need to remember that despite all they do there are many more fans out there that they have not convinced than there are supporters trust members

So in many ways they have failed

I await the expected st responding as to why I am wrong because I ...... erm don't believe in them....... truth is I don't care I'm big enough to not be concerned by such trivia............

Just because nobody agrees with you does not make you wrong........ it just means that nobody agrees with you........ but I think this post has proved one thing........... some people kind of agree with me?

Life is full of difficult decisions

[Drew Peacock]

Question, If you don't have any shares, but join the supporters Trust, are you entitled to gain entry to the AGM ?

Question, In the past, shareholders, like season ticket holders, sometimes had priority booking status. Will you get this if it occurs again?

No and no (although as a ST member you probably would, but I imagine most are Season Ticket holders anyway), because rights attach to shares and the Supporters Trust is the shareholder not the members of the Trust.

[arpaul]

No and no (although as a ST member you probably would, but I imagine most are Season Ticket holders anyway), because rights attach to shares and the Supporters Trust is the shareholder not the members of the Trust.

One man, One voice. Long live the shareholder

[bucksred]

But what if you are not interested in the supporters trust ?

Bucks............ it just is not the way forward.......... it might be for you and many others but it's just not my bag man

Is Steve L scared of releasing shares for the world out there....... you know the one outside the supporters trust?

I can't see how it is for the better of the club if on one hand we are told how we are losing millions but on the other stupid people like me would be prepared to lose money too...... but are only pointed towards a supporters trust that............ wait for it are almost nothing compared to the amount of people that might be prepared to (chuck) money away or speculate.... Hey SL did you have as much trouble gettting shares in Manchester United?

I bet the answer is no......... plus...... no I'll shut up now because I don't want those that believe in the supporters trust to get on my back......... as they obviously have not made their point well enough for people like me. I do not wish to underestimate their contribution or efforts but they do no represent all the fans and need to remember that despite all they do there are many more fans out there that they have not convinced than there are supporters trust members

So in many ways they have failed

I await the expected st responding as to why I am wrong because I ...... erm don't believe in them....... truth is I don't care I'm big enough to not be concerned by such trivia............

Just because nobody agrees with you does not make you wrong........ it just means that nobody agrees with you........ but I think this post has proved one thing........... some people kind of agree with me?

Life is full of difficult decisions

Daaaarset, my point is that its an either or for you. ST for soem, and the independant types like y'self will buy their own, but we all end up winners as the shares are in real fans hands (Be it ST, or y'self) not some shifty flipping merchant bankers

[Drew Peacock]

One man, One voice. Long live the shareholder

One shareholder, one voice.

360 people one voice.

360 shareholders, 360 voices.