Fan Arrested Life Ban

[samo]

Can understand the argument for a shorter term ban, but I think had he actually connected with Orr no one would question a life-time ban. And considering the only reason this didn't happen was because the idiot missed, then I don't think he really has a argument.

Plus, I don't think it matters what Orr's history is in relation to the blokes punishment. It has nothing whatsoever to do with this situation. Just because someone has a criminal record doesn't mean anyone has the right to attack them for no decent reason.

[City_pete1]

Fair.

1. Players need protection from totally unprovoked attack.

2. Compare to Cantona/Rigg etc is different. Those players got huge bans from football and docked wages. BCFC can not fine the fan but can ban him.

3. If someone came in to my work place and tried to lamp me I would not expect him to be allowed in to the office again.

4. Anyone who attempts to punch a BCFC player completely inprovoked does not deserve to come back to the ground and I for one don't want them to.

Agree. As a company BCFC are correct to ban him. I don't want him at AG.

[054123]

Banned for Life and rightly so, there is no recourse for this kind of behavior, unacceptable in the highest degree.

So should, in your opinion, any fan or player found guilty of attempted assault be sine die banned?

what has a player got to do with it? but Yes, if a player is found guilty of assault or attempted assault than yes, Big Dunc Ferguason and that other bloke served jail time for assasult on the pitch

not sure what Rigg, Rio, Cantana or Cockerill have to do with this incident at all?

IMHO, what they did, apart from Rio, was far worse as they actually commited assault as opposed to "intend or threaten it"

however they all recieived severe punishments.

None were banned for life and, as it stands, you don't actually serve life for murder on many occassions.I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished, I'm saying it seems disproportionate.

to compare attempting a hit a player at a match, to murder in a total irrelevance.

I personally don't want those kinda people at Ashton Gate and I don't want my kids growing up thinking that is acceptable, think the club has been correct in their actions. Rovers are considering banning fans for life for the pitch invasion last week, so surely attempting to strike a player is worthy or a similar charge.

either way, he's not banned from watching City for ever, he can still go to away game, City are just making it clear that they won't tolerate that kinda behaviour at Ashton Gate

Bring you kids up correctly and they won't. However how is displaying to them that sever punishment for minor offenses is the way forward? What next, chopping the hands off first time shoplifters?? Surely you're better off showing your kids how everyone in their life time will make mistakes but that everyone deserves a chance, especially taking the actual 'offence' into context.

Forgiveness and progression are the only way you're going to get anywhere in this world, especially if you want you kids to grow up in world far better than this one.

As for the Rovers fans, as has already been discussed, those inciting trouble should receive some kind of ban, those celebrating shouldn't.

[Brianred]

If he is banned for life, then the police should take no further action. Doug Harman says "it's in the hands of the police to deal with him as they wish, we will support whatever action they take".

Well i hope he is quick enough to get off his backside and assist all the fans that got attacked at the mem by the police.

[robins72]

How do they know that Orr didnt say something to wind this bloke up though? Just a thought mind.

[054123]

Anyone know what Orr said to him?

[Nibor]

Banned for life and rightly so, his actions were inexcusable and someone who can lose control to that level once can certainly do it again.

I don't think any of the other incidents mentioned should have any bearing on how this one was handled.

The culprit can't have any complaints because the consequences of what he did were entirely predictable.

I've got no sympathy because the majority of supporters who don't behave like this have to suffer the sort of treatment fans got at Rovers last week purely because of the odd moron who can't control himself.

Edit: Oh, and there was a poster on here sat within feet of the entire incident who was adamant that Orr said nothing whatsoever just looked shocked, not that I think that's relevant to how the idiot is dealt with.

[NickJ]

If I've understood this correct, despite having plenty of time he has not given any apology to the player involved or the club for his action. There is no reason to think that he immediately and genuinely regretted his actions. It may be a 'terrible mistake', but it was not an accident and he did not 'mistakenly' swing out. He intentionally tried to lamp one of our players during a game and that is something that he must surely take personal responsible for, and therefore pay the penalty for - partly to punish him and partly also to act as a deterrent for anyone else tempted to attack a player. How often have people on here had a go at the Gas, for example, for failing to do enough when opposition players are pelted with coins or objects? We should be welcoming this as protection for our players.

I accept that he may be gutted that he is banned for life from watching his team play. But surely that is the point of a punishment? If he'd streaked on the pitch for a laugh, I'd agree with you that a life ban is too strong. But he took a swing at one of our own players. It was not some jape that went a bit over the top - it was an act of unacceptable violence. If he's upset at not being able to watch City play, he's only got himself to blame really.

Don't disagree with what you say in principle, but I believe in giving people a short stiff punishment followed by a fresh start and a second chance. We'll have to agree to disagree on the sentence. Personally I'd like to ban for life whoever made the pre-meditated, unprovoked and thuggish attack on 300 long standing season ticket holders who were unceremoniously evicted from the Willams without so much as a "thankyou for your loyal support", but that's another issue.

But back to our "friend".

What about if he'd tried to lamp someone like Gary Stanley, or Julian Watts, or Tony Pulis?

Surely that would have been acceptable?

[054123]

his actions were inexcusable and someone who can lose control to that level once can certainly do it again.

What a fantastic philosophy.

Some sort of post in the higher echelons of the halls of justice for you.

[Barry]

maybe a life ban is OTT.

you could say that everyone deserves a second chance so a shorter ban may be appropriate, say five or ten years.

this lad may change in this time, the ban will make him realise what a **** he was acting like!

[Maesknoll Red]

Well put. I'm with Percy on this. We don't want people like him down Ashton Gate, surely?

Not with behaviour like that, but you don't think that if this guy lives until say - 75 - that a 55 (or more) year ban is totally un-enforceable and that he may well have a different outlook on life in a few years.

If he'd have shot Orr dead he'd be out in 12 - 15 years!!!!

[054123]

maybe a life ban is OTT.

you could say that everyone deserves a second chance so a shorter ban may be appropriate, say five or ten years.

this lad may change in this time, the ban will make him realise what a **** he was acting like!

Exactley.

It was a pathetic thing to do and i'd like to think he regrets it now. A 3/5 year ban would give him ample growing up time. But for the offence, do we really need to ban him from Ashton Gate, at his age, for the rest of his life?

[Nibor]

What a fantastic philosophy.

Some sort of post in the higher echelons of the halls of justice for you.

No thanks, they don't pay enough.

As regards the philosophy, why should the consequence of behaving like a moronic thug not be extremely stiff since actions like this affect the vast majority of people who are capable of not throwing a punch when things don't go their way?

[OC 1645]

Banned for life and rightly so, his actions were inexcusable and someone who can lose control to that level once can certainly do it again.

I don't think any of the other incidents mentioned should have any bearing on how this one was handled.

The culprit can't have any complaints because the consequences of what he did were entirely predictable.

I've got no sympathy because the majority of supporters who don't behave like this have to suffer the sort of treatment fans got at Rovers last week purely because of the odd moron who can't control himself.

Edit: Oh, and there was a poster on here sat within feet of the entire incident who was adamant that Orr said nothing whatsoever just looked shocked, not that I think that's relevant to how the idiot is dealt with.

I agree with you Nibor. I saw the commotion at the front of the Dolman Stand from the back of Williams stand D block on that day. I was absolutely dumb struck when I found out that the bloke had abused Bradley Orr then swung a punch at him as well. Bradley Orr played quite well that day in my opinion - has the bloke that swung the punch got mental health problems? I've never before even heard of a supporter wanting to attack one of his own club's players while a match was in progress. Sheer lunacy.

[054123]

No thanks, they don't pay enough.

As regards the philosophy, why should the consequence of behaving like a moronic thug not be extremely stiff since actions like this affect the vast majority of people who are capable of not throwing a punch when things don't go their way?

I fully take your point.

During my youth (and lets not forget he was a youth) i never felt the compulsion to steal any cars or break the law in anyway (apart form the odd doobie) yet i certainly wouldn't wish to punish those for life for their offences. A good friend of mine, whist drunk, at the age of 15 stole and crashed a car. The offense could have had potentially lethal ramifications for the genral public and was the cause of much hassle to those involved. He was sentenced to community service and banned from driving for 3 years wef his 17th birthday. He is now a proud father of two and regrets what he did. He drives his kids to school, enjoys a beer at the weekend and generally conducts his life in a stand up way.

Should he have been banned from ever driving/drinking again for his offence?

My opinion is 'no'.

[Nibor]

I fully take your point.

During my youth (and lets not forget he was a youth) i never felt the compulsion to steal any cars or break the law in anyway (apart form the odd doobie) yet i certainly wouldn't wish to punish those for life for their offences. A good friend of mine, whist drunk, at the age of 15 stole and crashed a car. The offense could have had potentially lethal ramifications for the genral public and was the cause of much hassle to those involved. He was sentenced to community service and banned from driving for 3 years wef his 17th birthday. He is now a proud father of two and regrets what he did. He drives his kids to school, enjoys a beer at the weekend and generally conducts his life in a stand up way.

Should he have been banned from ever driving/drinking again for his offence?

My opinion is 'no'.

I appreciate your point that people will learn as they get older but I think someone who resorts to violence with that little provocation rarely loses that capacity. I see it as more than just adolescent idiocy which we're all guilty of to a greater or lesser degree.

Also, the length of the ban is representative of the hassle caused to thousands of other supporters at many games over many years purely because of a small minority. I watch a fair bit of rugby with my family and as a football fan it makes you very bitter to see the huge disparity in how fans of each are treated, and there's no other reason for it.

In reality the ban won't end up being life because he won't be recognisable in a few years, the stern way in which it's handled is more to show a complete intolerance for it which I agree with.

[RedTop]

I've got no sympathy because the majority of supporters who don't behave like this have to suffer the sort of treatment fans got at Rovers last week purely because of the odd moron who can't control himself.

Now that is a good point well made, Nibor.

[old parkender]

red top.why should there be different penelties for players and supporters?whats the difference between a fan trying to lamp a player and player trying to lamp a player? are we not all under the same law in this country?lets look at the biggerpicture,if 20 fans of chelsea and arsenal had a set to in the millenium stadium the police would have waded in and made arrests and no doubt issued bans,however when the players do so its left to the ref and linesmen to sort out,3 match ban laughable club fine(in the context of the players earnings) and carry on as normal,likewise if the gas and city players had started a punch up would a/s police have rushed on cs gassing the players?

I'm not saying the lad shouldnt have got a ban,but life?? its shocking double standards.

[Thornbury Red]

I fully take your point.

During my youth (and lets not forget he was a youth) i never felt the compulsion to steal any cars or break the law in anyway (apart form the odd doobie) yet i certainly wouldn't wish to punish those for life for their offences. A good friend of mine, whist drunk, at the age of 15 stole and crashed a car. The offense could have had potentially lethal ramifications for the genral public and was the cause of much hassle to those involved. He was sentenced to community service and banned from driving for 3 years wef his 17th birthday. He is now a proud father of two and regrets what he did. He drives his kids to school, enjoys a beer at the weekend and generally conducts his life in a stand up way.

Should he have been banned from ever driving/drinking again for his offence?

My opinion is 'no'.

But if he had done it in front of the media and 11000 people?

What then?

Hes banned from the gate, thats all - reading some posts on here thats no hardship.

Maybe tough but thats called being responsible for your actions.

[scumbag]

spot on it's called being responsible for your actions.

personally although some people feel it is harsh, it is more of a tolerent against others making sure that people know this behaviour will not be tolorated.

he won't be able to get a season ticket in the future, but the chances are in 4/5 years time no one will recognise him so he will be able to attend for that reason alone of the pay on the day basis.

only on this forum though can a fan try to attack a player and people welcome him back to the gate.

personally i don't want to be associated with these kinds of people, let alone have them sat near me.

[Tunley Legend]

As I understand things, once he has served five years of his "life" ban he can apply to have it revoked. I know someone who was banned for life for running onto the pitch against Rovers in 1996 who now goes to the Gate regularly. I'm sure his life ban was lifted by the club on appeal.

[Guest North Street]

But if he had done it in front of the media and 11000 people?

What then?

Hes banned from the gate, thats all - reading some posts on here thats no hardship.

Maybe tough but thats called being responsible for your actions.

He is not just banned from the Gate though is he? He has more or less made himself unemployable from many proffessions for life, he cannot enter any City or Town on matchdays where our club plays, he will have to hand his passport in to the police every time England play abroad including the duration of World cups and if he does not he risks imprisonment and this will last....... Lastly when his case is heard it will be all over the City loving Evening post then the tv and this will have an impact not only on himself but his family, loved ones which will stick for some time.

He's made a stupid mistake the likes of which he may never recover from and he will have a lot of time to consider the consequences but he should not be branded for ever in a manner even some of the most repellant criminals would not be subjected to.

[Maesknoll Red]

spot on it's called being responsible for your actions.

personally although some people feel it is harsh, it is more of a tolerent against others making sure that people know this behaviour will not be tolorated.

he won't be able to get a season ticket in the future, but the chances are in 4/5 years time no one will recognise him so he will be able to attend for that reason alone of the pay on the day basis.

only on this forum though can a fan try to attack a player and people welcome him back to the gate.

personally i don't want to be associated with these kinds of people, let alone have them sat near me.

I missed the welcome back posts.

No one is advocating that he should be back next week or even for a few seasons, but when you put the length of ban in context to the punishments handed out by this countries courts, it does seem to make no allowance for future maturity or redemption.

It was a bizarre incident, the first time I've ever witnessed a fan trying to punch one of his own teams players and I hope its the last time I see it.

[Bristol Boy]

Banned for life and rightly so, his actions were inexcusable and someone who can lose control to that level once can certainly do it again.

You need to be careful of that basis.There are very, very few things, far more serious, for which one is banned for life.

I don't think any of the other incidents mentioned should have any bearing on how this one was handled.

In terms of sending a signal to fans about behaviour and being even handed, I think they are relevant.

The culprit can't have any complaints because the consequences of what he did were entirely predictable.

No he can't, then neither can so many others who aren't banned for life.I'm not saying give the bloke a medal, praise or an all expenses paid holiday in the Maldives and I'm about as far from a bleeding heart liberal and hugging a hoody as one can imagine, but let he with no sin...........etc

I've got no sympathy because the majority of supporters who don't behave like this have to suffer the sort of treatment fans got at Rovers last week purely because of the odd moron who can't control himself.

Even dodgier ground there. Although I fully understand where you're coming from, law and order must never be dispensed on the basis of the innocent suffering as well as the guilty and those fans would have been gassed and bashed with a baton irrespective of this incident.

Edit: Oh, and there was a poster on here sat within feet of the entire incident who was adamant that Orr said nothing whatsoever just looked shocked, not that I think that's relevant to how the idiot is dealt with.

I think I'd have something to say that was a tad uncomplimentary if anyone decided to have a swipe at me, so you are right and neither is Orrs record relevant.

I suggest a five year ban would have been acceptable, plus a personal apology to Orr.If that didn't work, then a five year season ticket for the Rovers on the terraces should be considered but only as a last resort after counselling etc.

[Bristol Boy]

I missed the welcome back posts.

No one is advocating that he should be back next week or even for a few seasons, but when you put the length of ban in context to the punishments handed out by this countries courts, it does seem to make no allowance for future maturity or redemption.

It was a bizarre incident, the first time I've ever witnessed a fan trying to punch one of his own teams players and I hope its the last time I see it.

Fan ran on the pitch at Everton after one of their guys-The middle of the pitch.He wasn't banned for life and one pundit suggested that if he'd actually have been serious about thumping him, he'd have gone to the training ground!!

[Bristol Boy]

spot on it's called being responsible for your actions.

OK.Following on from that are you saying that if you do something stupid whilst driving, you should then be banned for life?

only on this forum though can a fan try to attack a player and people welcome him back to the gate.

I haven't seen anyone post anything who wants to welcome him back to the Gate.

[newboy]

I appreciate your point that people will learn as they get older but I think someone who resorts to violence with that little provocation rarely loses that capacity. I see it as more than just adolescent idiocy which we're all guilty of to a greater or lesser degree.

What do you base that viewpoint on? He may have been drunk. Had a particularly stressful week. Have mortgage problems. Found out his wife was having an affair. His kids may have just been put into hospital. etc etc etc.

Your ability to quickly judge (based on what facts? what experience of violent behaviour?), give a harsh sentence and be comfortable and assured with that is deeply worrying.

He clearly acted stupidly. AG has every right to keep him out. But for you to judge him and back a total ban reeks of well, facism for want of a *much* less offensive word (sorry)

We've all been stupid every now and again. Why not try and judge when you know all the mitigating circumstances. Or at least give him a chance to prove that he can learn.

IMHO only when he's got no excuse for the act *and* has past form (i.e. shows an inability to learn from his mistakes) then a life ban would be justified.

[gamon]

He is not just banned from the Gate though is he? He has more or less made himself unemployable from many proffessions for life, he cannot enter any City or Town on matchdays where our club plays, he will have to hand his passport in to the police every time England play abroad including the duration of World cups and if he does not he risks imprisonment and this will last....... Lastly when his case is heard it will be all over the City loving Evening post then the tv and this will have an impact not only on himself but his family, loved ones which will stick for some time.

He's made a stupid mistake the likes of which he may never recover from and he will have a lot of time to consider the consequences but he should not be branded for ever in a manner even some of the most repellant criminals would not be subjected to.

All of that becuase of a few seconds of madness. I don't think people realise the actual repercussions this lad is going to face for the rest of his life because of that one inicdent.

[OC 1645]

All of that becuase of a few seconds of madness. I don't think people realise the actual repercussions this lad is going to face for the rest of his life because of that one inicdent.

It'll all blow over and all be forgotten soon no doubt. Writing of the moment of madness, I still don't understand what possessed the man to do it. :noexpression:

[bh_red]

2 Rovers "fans" went onto the pitch a few years back and attempted to attack the Stoke City goalkeeper Gavin Ward

Those 2 "fans" in question received life bans from the mem, bans which have been upheld, apparently one of them has been to one game since.

seems to me City have kept the punishement in line with previous similar events at other clubs

Personally mistake or not, the behaviour and attempted attack on Orr was a disgusting disgrace, for people to compare it too other events or offences is irrelevant.

However the biggest question has to be...........what's happened to the stewards since? nothing I bet?