EIGHTY SEVEN MINUTES...

[SimplyRed]

...is how long it took for us to make their keeper save a decent goal-bound attempt...

In a game that should've been dead and buried by half-time (how many times have we said that this season?), we sprayed attempts everywhere except at goal and made Bradford look like the ones up for promotion in the 2nd half.

The lack of creativity, accuracy and pure desire to win was the the usual City answer to the equation BIG HOME CROWD + PROMOTION PROSPECTS = ?

Well, Mr Johnson, you now have your answer as to why City are not getting bigger crowds.

It's not so much the loss - which most can accept, given that we have a small cushion and are still in with a great shout - it's the way we lose that annoys me.

For those that say only the results matter, I say - without PERFORMANCE, you are always going to be susceptible to awful losses such as these.

[Sir Colby-Tit]

The lack of creativity, accuracy and pure desire to win was the the usual City answer to the equation BIG HOME CROWD + PROMOTION PROSPECTS = ?

Exactly what I was saying last night. Doesn't seem to matter who the manager is or what players we have - we always bottle it when it comes to the important games.

I was scratching my head for an explanation & the only one I could think of was that this "sleeping giant" tag we have had shackled to us for years is seriously f######g us up. We expect too much season after season & I'm sure it effects the players and the manager.

Teams like Yeovil, Colchester, Southend, S****horpe etc etc etc can be near the top of the league and still enjoy their football. The pressure & expectation is just not in the same league as when we are up there

[Bristol Boy]

Correct and it is fair to say that, at this level in particular, if performance doesn't match results, people just won't come.

The overarching point is that the entertainment value this season hasn't matched that of the football we played at the end of last season, Bas Savage, Mark McGamon and all.After signing eleven or more players, GJ has to wonder why.

[cidercity1987]

Correct and it is fair to say that, at this level in particular, if performance doesn't match results, people just won't come.

The overarching point is that the entertainment value this season hasn't matched that of the football we played at the end of last season, Bas Savage, Mark McGamon and all.After signing eleven or more players, GJ has to wonder why.

It's McCammon.

Entertaining football would be nice but I reckon Johnson should just concentrate on getting us out of this league in whichever way works. Wilson failed playing 'entertaining' football, so I'd prefer winning football. We can draw 4 games 0-0 and win 5 games 1-0 as far as I care as long as we're above 3rd at the end of the season.

I thought last nights game was quite action packed and entertaining anyway, which is probably why we lost.

[newboy]

It's McCammon.

Entertaining football would be nice but I reckon Johnson should just concentrate on getting us out of this league in whichever way works. Wilson failed playing 'entertaining' football, so I'd prefer winning football. We can draw 4 games 0-0 and win 5 games 1-0 as far as I care as long as we're above 3rd at the end of the season.

I thought last nights game was quite action packed and entertaining anyway, which is probably why we lost.

Agree entirely.

Personally I can't get too excited about last night - every now and again a game last night will occur. Our form cannot be perfect for so long. For the first 43 minutes we controlled the game, had a penalty decision taken to outside of the box and should have been 2 up. Bradford scored 2 entertaining well done goals and it turned out just like one of those nights.

There are those who are saying there are serious deficiencies in GJ or the squad as a result of last night. Apart from the obvious lack of strikers, which I'd agree about, I'd point to our form and the league position.

And for those who say we always bottle it - I'd argue it's simply not true - it's just that games last night simply make the odd game when we're off form highly visible. I doubt if you looked at the games we'd lost, there would be little consistency to the context of the game.

[Red_Alligator]

You know, I know, we all know.

The current team isn't that good. Not technically nor in terms of "entertainment" value.

Those that see occasional games do so because they know this and because of course they've got fed up of being let down in the past.

We go every game knowing that the quality isn't high, but in ever hopeful expectation. We love the club, irrespective of who's playing/managing/chairman.

We ALL know what's needed and where in terms of players, and have for some time. Count the posts on this forum!!

What has been brought in by the club has not, to date, addressed the above.

We're still in with a good chance of going up despite last night. It remains an open race as others involved are in the same position as ourselves.

I think that the chairman and others fully realise this.

If we do get to the promised land of the Championship we will all be mighty relieved but worried about what the future may hold.

[newboy]

You know, I know, we all know.

The current team isn't that good. Not technically nor in terms of "entertainment" value.

I clearly don't know. 2nd in the league after a large number of games with 4pts clear and they're not good?

What?!

[SimplyRed]

It's McCammon.

Entertaining football would be nice but I reckon Johnson should just concentrate on getting us out of this league in whichever way works. Wilson failed playing 'entertaining' football, so I'd prefer winning football. We can draw 4 games 0-0 and win 5 games 1-0 as far as I care as long as we're above 3rd at the end of the season.

I thought last nights game was quite action packed and entertaining anyway, which is probably why we lost.

It was entertaining in the first half, though we were guilty of squandering several chances, but the second half was awful.

The thing is, what people seem to miss is that the Performance/Results debate is not either/or.

IMO, if you put in a performance, the results will naturally follow. To rely on results alone will throw up games like last night, where we don't get away with sneaking a 1-0 win.

Action packed? Maybe, but mostly for the wrong reasons!

Entertaining? Maybe, for the neutral. From our point of view, it was awful. Entertainment=Enjoyment of the spectacle. Can you honestly say you enjoyed the game, as a whole?

[SimplyRed]

I clearly don't know. 2nd in the league after a large number of games with 4pts clear and they're not good?

What?!

Just goes to show the quality of the league.

If we're so good, why are people still questioning our pedigree? Why haven't the crowds come back?

I think Wilson's best team would have walked this league. Many people compare Wilson's teams to the current one purely on points accumulation, but fail to consider the quality of the opposition at the time.

[newboy]

Just goes to show the quality of the league.

If we're so good, why are people still questioning our pedigree? Why haven't the crowds come back?

I think Wilson's best team would have walked this league. Many people compare Wilson's teams to the current one purely on points accumulation, but fail to consider the quality of the opposition at the time.

That could easily be rose tinted glasses.

I remember just as much complaining (if not more) during DW's tenure. Baffling substitutions. Players not playing for the club. Players being played regardless of form. Too negative tactics. Too frail defence.

Most of this has been repeated this year, but noticeably less so of:

- players not playing for the club

- frail defence

That's interesting in itself in that DW had criticism over many facets. GJ seems to have fewer things being attacked, but more intense over certain things such as LJ being played.

I'm starting to suspect that a sizeable minority of fans are serial whingers. Or perhaps it's just that they make the most noise?

In terms of why fans aren't coming back, see BB's post. Personally I suspect it's the sheer amount of time that we've spent in this league and the availability of top quality cheap football on the box rather than this particular year's team.

If you look for something hard enough you'll find it. If you spent an entire match looking at a given player or team's performance, you're bound to find a healthy number of mistakes, vindicating whatever prejudice you carry into the game.

And regarding quality of the league, that's been said every season since I started supporting city.

[Simon Lambley]

probally wrong of me to say this, BUT irrelevant of last night I'm happy with BCFC. the team and manager.

boring football,,,,so, i don't care we are in my own opinion ( which wont mean much), looking the best we have in years.

Yes we bottle it but our defence this season has been pretty much excellent.

Basso , yeah thats basso eddie, has been excellent. now i rated phillips but i rate basso more.

so , to summarize second, 4 pts clear , 10 to go.

Yep happy bunny, i am

HURRAH the city

positivity never grew through negativity

[Red_Alligator]

I clearly don't know. 2nd in the league after a large number of games with 4pts clear and they're not good?

What?!

No, you're right. You don't. It's a poor standard all round (thankfully) in this division. That's why the "floating" fans have floated away.

[newboy]

No, you're right. You don't. It's a poor standard all round (thankfully) in this division. That's why the "floating" fans have floated away.

That excuse is trotted out every single year. What evidence do you have to back that up?

And following on from that, what makes you believe that our team performances are the main reason behind floating fans not coming back other than:

- accumulated apathy over the division we're in

- rising cost of tickets

- more availability of footy on tv

Your argument is not backed up by:

- general audience levels going down

- actual attendances - up on last year

- attendances not improving when floating fans have seen mightily impressive performances such as coventry.

So back at ya! ;-)

[Spud55]

That excuse is trotted out every single year. What evidence do you have to back that up?

And following on from that, what makes you believe that our team performances are the main reason behind floating fans not coming back other than:

- accumulated apathy over the division we're in

- rising cost of tickets

- more availability of footy on tv

Your argument is not backed up by:

- general audience levels going down

- actual attendances - up on last year

- attendances not improving when floating fans have seen mightily impressive performances such as coventry.

So back at ya! ;-)

Umm attendences did improve after Cov and more importantly middlesborough, yet most were as dumbstruck by the complete lack of well anything when we got royally done by cheltnham, when ever we have a series of good results the attendance rises and the players loose their bottle, time and time again.

Frankly with this in mind i'd rather the floating fans in many ways did stay away, when we get the normal bog standard 11k attendance we play, bring in 3-4k of the floaters on top of this and especially against weaker opponents when the floaters expect us to just turn up and win this rubs off on the players and the rest of us, against Cheltnham for example there was an air of complete and utter arrogance all around the ground before and during the first 20 mins, and this did have an impact on the players. The players do feed off the crowd, games where the crowd is really up for it, the players tend t be as well, but when that just isn't there (against Rovers) the players reflect this feeling in the way they play. The best thing at Ag is a riled crowd, the amount of times i've seen a ref doing something stupid, or an incident that realy gets the crowds back up completely change the whole atmosphere of the ground and the players respond to this, and we have battered teams because of it.

Contrary to many's belief i do believe that our players are technically very, very good, and able to play at a much higher level, but like willsons teams found out you can have all the ability you want, but against a side that will come and pack the defence and defend Notts County style, (kick our players up in the air on the half way line as to avoid bookings and then pack the defence again) we can't cope with. When we are allowed to play and have a bit of space we are better than every side in this division and a fair few of the teams in the league above, we made Coventry look average. We have trouble breaking sides down because we are not a big physical side who are happy to kick people, and there are still a fair few sides in this division which do this well. Put us against sides that want to play football and we invariably beat them, oldham wanted to play football at boundary Park, and we played them off the park. The Players we have are prefectly capable (with the adition of a quality striker) of playing and doing ok in the championship, but we still struggle against the sides intent on not playing football in this league, because that is not and hasn't ever been the way we play. The thing that GJ has done is he although he hasn't erradicated this weakness, as frankly you aren't going to beat some clubs whose whole ethos for years has been an emphasis on playing as little football as possible, he's made us more able to cope with this sides than we have been for a long time.

We will still loose a few games to these sides, but less than we have before, but we can still play a side that wants to play football off the park.