Striker - same mistake as 1998 on the cards !

[cheshire_red]

And then played the grand total of 33 more games in the league and 10 in the Conference before retiring with a bad injury. Rotherham wanted £200,000 for him as I recall, plus his wages. Doesn't look such a great buy in retrospect, does it? Would have been right up there with Paul Mortimor, Paul Holland and Billy Mercer in fact.

It's also worth noting that we scored 79 goals that season, more than the two promoted teams, Wigan (68) and Crewe (76). But we conceded 48 against Wigan's 25 and Crewe's 40. That's what cost us automatic promotion in 2003, not the failure to sign Mark Robins.

Fair points, i thought it was £50k if it were £200k then I fully agree with you.

Tad harsh on Mercer though, cracking keeper and was injured playing for us rather than already so when signed?

The goals against was why Wilson went OTT the next season and we were so negative, happy medium was what was required.

[cheshire_red]

But we're winning Games and are currently 4 points clear of 3rd, yes we had a slip up against Bradford, but they always beat us.

Beattie - what a stupid comment, Of course he is going to play league one football.

Which part of having no fully fit, fully firing strikers do you not understand?

Of course we are winning 5 out of 6. But the strikers aren't scoring, we nearly came away from playing the WORST Crewe side in donkeys years with a solitary point even though we dominated the game, because YES we have bags of quality all over the park, but NO FIT SCORING STRIKERS.

[Bristol Boy]

No, he said " can Johnson handle players that have played at a higher level " i was pointing out that we have a lot of players that have played at a higher level.

I don`t understand your reply......but then i don`t usually take much notice what you write anyway.

You should take more notice and then you might understand, even learn.

Let's go through the list and make some points

Murrey........Ex City-never cut the mustard at Reading...signed by Ward then Wilson, rumoured to be leaving in May.

Carey.........Ex City, played for us in The Championship and we were relegated and about 21 games at Coventry.Re-Signed by Tinnon

Orr.............Newcastle Resvs..Tinnion.

Johnson JNR..Are you serious, hardly played for Hearts and it's his son.Are you seriously suggesting he couldn't manage his own son who's ex Yeovil?

Showumni.....Luton Resvs & A sub for much of last season

Jevons..........Everton when he was about 12

Smith...........That's a joke, right?

Andrews.......Never cut it in The Championship

all played at a higher level.

Technically, that statement is true however, the original post was obviously referring to experinced, bigger name players (Stewart & Bridges-GJ also got the hump with Andrews at BHA, sparking a hissy fit from the young man)

Only time will tell.

[PhatWill]

Yeh, much rather have Andy Smith.

Me too.

[Bristol Boy]

Tad harsh on Mercer though, cracking keeper and was injured playing for us rather than already so when signed?

Not being a pedant but wasn't he was injured at home slipping in the shower as opposed to playing? Agree about Mortimer, Holland and you can add Dyche & Steve Jones to that list.

[cheshire_red]

Me too.

Why would you?

[Topsham Red]

Which part of having no fully fit, fully firing strikers do you not understand?

Of course we are winning 5 out of 6. But the strikers aren't scoring, we nearly came away from playing the WORST Crewe side in donkeys years with a solitary point even though we dominated the game, because YES we have bags of quality all over the park, but NO FIT SCORING STRIKERS.

Didn't Enoch score on the weekend??? He may not be fully fit, but he is getting there. Jevons has a slight tweak. Lets keep on bringing in new players that don't know how the team plays in the hope they might score or Keep faith with what we have got - they have done pretty well aready this season.

Man United have only 1 fully fit striker - don't see them complaining.

[Guest ashtonyate]

In 1998 John Ward was forced to sell Shaun Goater on the eve of the transfer deadline to Man City for £400k. The rationale behind this was that if left to the summer he could leave on a Bosman and the club would get nothing !!

Shortsighted or what ? Who was the replacement - fat boy Shaun McCarthy ; he scored no more than 2 goals if my memory serves me correctly and after looking confident of taking the title City lost out to Watford [just like we lost out to the gas in 90 when Taylor missed thr last 8 games having reached 34 goals].

So to this year - we have a striker problem[fitness : Murray / Brooker / Showumni] and it is an insult to all fans that Smith is the best available. No goals in English football - slated [so I am told] on the fans zone on BBC R5 website by supporters of more than one of the clubs he has been loaned to. I saw Smith at Chesterfield - he ran around a lot and that's it ; seeing him since he looks less likely to score than Bas Savage.

Bristol Boy said to invest in a striker who might cost £12k a week is a good investment if he gets ,say, 5 goals in the last 8 games.

The happy clappers will say "what about team spirit" having a high earner - at this moment in time I think it would be true to say that all our strikers [including Jevons] are carrying some degree of injury so a fit outsider should not put anyone's nose out of joint [i'm forgetting Myrie Williams who, like Scott Brown as gone from hero to zero in Johnson's eyes for no apparent reason].

How about phoning Moyes and asking to borrow James Beattie for 4 weeks just to get his confidence back - could secure the 4 wins at a stroke ?

Two further issues

Johnson - can he handle players who have done it at a higher level ? Assuming we go up we won't be able to survive on the calibre of player that seems to be his preference [McCombe & McAllister excepted]

Rotherham home : will City live up to their "never fail to disappoint" tag by putting in a dismal performance if promo is secured the week before ? I remember 1976 - the joy of beating Portsmouth to secure promotion then a **ss poor performance losing 2-1 at home against Notts County 4 days later at what should have been the biggest party ever [and still was !]

What a great post you have sum it up in a nut shell the only bit that I don't agree with is Williams I can see why Johnson will not play him he is no good enough at the moment

[cheshire_red]

Didn't Enoch score on the weekend??? He may not be fully fit, but he is getting there. Jevons has a slight tweak. Lets keep on bringing in new players that don't know how the team plays in the hope they might score or Keep faith with what we have got - they have done pretty well aready this season.

Man United have only 1 fully fit striker - don't see them complaining.

I disagree with your sentiments, Enoch has been getting there and failing all season bar a great patch in the middle ofthe season and GJ has said as much himself. New player, so what is Smith???

Read the Man U forums, of course they are complaining.

[Topsham Red]

I disagree with your sentiments, Enoch has been getting there and failing all season bar a great patch in the middle ofthe season and GJ has said as much himself. New player, so what is Smith???

Read the Man U forums, of course they are complaining.

They certainly sounded like they where moaning after winning 4-1 this weekend.

Enoch failing all season. - what a ridiculous comment. you've just been added to the ignore list.

[jellyred]

They were complaining about winning 4-1 at the weekend with only one fully fit striker.

Enoch 'I love to score goals' Showumni has been playing well and scoring all season until this past month where I think we can all agree he has been out of form. Hopefully his goal against Crewe will spark that desire in him again.

[cheshire_red]

They certainly sounded like they where moaning after winning 4-1 this weekend.

Enoch failing all season. - what a ridiculous comment. you've just been added to the ignore list.

So do you add everyone you disagree with to your ignore list, how pathetic, not that you'll see this. Yes before the Bolton game they were moaning full scale.

[Beezey]

Not being a pedant but wasn't he was injured at home slipping in the shower as opposed to playing? Agree about Mortimer, Holland and you can add Dyche & Steve Jones to that list.

No he was injured playing against Exeter in the 4-0 home win in the Auto Windscreens area final.

Played Crocked in the final and that was basically that.

[Longacre_red]

You should take more notice and then you might understand, even learn.

Let's go through the list and make some points

Murrey........Ex City-never cut the mustard at Reading...signed by Ward then Wilson, rumoured to be leaving in May.

Carey.........Ex City, played for us in The Championship and we were relegated and about 21 games at Coventry.Re-Signed by Tinnon

Orr.............Newcastle Resvs..Tinnion.

Johnson JNR..Are you serious, hardly played for Hearts and it's his son.Are you seriously suggesting he couldn't manage his own son who's ex Yeovil?

Showumni.....Luton Resvs & A sub for much of last season

Jevons..........Everton when he was about 12

Smith...........That's a joke, right?

Andrews.......Never cut it in The Championship

all played at a higher level.

Technically, that statement is true however, the original post was obviously referring to experinced, bigger name players (Stewart & Bridges-GJ also got the hump with Andrews at BHA, sparking a hissy fit from the young man)

Only time will tell.

I thought Andrews was loaned to us over championship clubs because he was doing well at Wednesday and coventry didn't want him helping their rivals?

Doesnt make sense but thats what i was told!

If we're looking for a striker on loan, why not try that little chinese player from man u, he recently came back from a 2 year loan at antwerp so needs to adapt to the english game, worth a try?!

[RedUn]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Goater wanted to go.

I recall a conversation with a relative of one of the other squad members at the time where the word was the Goat would have stayed for significantly less wages than Man City were offering (given they were going down and we were going up).

Unfortunately, City's board (fearing SG would set a marker for the rest of the promotion squad) were not prepared to negotiate the worth of a proven goalscorer and instead "cashed in" and went out and spent Archie Gooch's money on three other strikers of varying usefulness instead (and what sort of wages were they on?) ... for as long as we are in this division we will still be paying for the repercussions.

[LSR]

In 1998 John Ward was forced to sell Shaun Goater on the eve of the transfer deadline to Man City for £400k. The rationale behind this was that if left to the summer he could leave on a Bosman and the club would get nothing !!

Shortsighted or what ? Who was the replacement - fat boy Shaun McCarthy ; he scored no more than 2 goals if my memory serves me correctly and after looking confident of taking the title City lost out to Watford [just like we lost out to the gas in 90 when Taylor missed thr last 8 games having reached 34 goals].

So to this year - we have a striker problem[fitness : Murray / Brooker / Showumni] and it is an insult to all fans that Smith is the best available. No goals in English football - slated [so I am told] on the fans zone on BBC R5 website by supporters of more than one of the clubs he has been loaned to. I saw Smith at Chesterfield - he ran around a lot and that's it ; seeing him since he looks less likely to score than Bas Savage.

Bristol Boy said to invest in a striker who might cost £12k a week is a good investment if he gets ,say, 5 goals in the last 8 games.

The happy clappers will say "what about team spirit" having a high earner - at this moment in time I think it would be true to say that all our strikers [including Jevons] are carrying some degree of injury so a fit outsider should not put anyone's nose out of joint [i'm forgetting Myrie Williams who, like Scott Brown as gone from hero to zero in Johnson's eyes for no apparent reason].

How about phoning Moyes and asking to borrow James Beattie for 4 weeks just to get his confidence back - could secure the 4 wins at a stroke ?

Two further issues

Johnson - can he handle players who have done it at a higher level ? Assuming we go up we won't be able to survive on the calibre of player that seems to be his preference [McCombe & McAllister excepted]

Rotherham home : will City live up to their "never fail to disappoint" tag by putting in a dismal performance if promo is secured the week before ? I remember 1976 - the joy of beating Portsmouth to secure promotion then a **ss poor performance losing 2-1 at home against Notts County 4 days later at what should have been the biggest party ever [and still was !]

you have some good points ,and yur right whats wrong with asking moyes ..after all if you don't ask you don't get right??

[Old Dazzler]

I recall a conversation with a relative of one of the other squad members at the time where the word was the Goat would have stayed for significantly less wages than Man City were offering (given they were going down and we were going up).

Unfortunately, City's board (fearing SG would set a marker for the rest of the promotion squad) were not prepared to negotiate the worth of a proven goalscorer and instead "cashed in" and went out and spent Archie Gooch's money on three other strikers of varying usefulness instead (and what sort of wages were they on?) ... for as long as we are in this division we will still be paying for the repercussions.

Goater had made it known that he definitely wanted to go from around the time we played Watford away in the December. His reasons were that he wanted to have a crack at playing in the premiership, which he ultimately achieved by joining Man City, even though we took their place at the end of that season.

As the board were offered £400,000 on deadline day for a player who was definitely going to walk in a few weeks, and we were only a game or two from auto promotion, you can't blame the club for taking the money. The problem we had was not so much the replacements for Goater (Akinibiyi, Thorpe and Soren Andersen) but the failure to replace injured Shaun Taylor and the signing of at least one quality midfielder.

But Goater spoke freely in the media about his desire to go at the end of his contract, exactly the way that Tony Thorpe did a few seasons later. It amuses me to this day that TT tends to get villified for doing exactly the same as The Goat, yet Goater still seems to be revered by the fans despite his planned walk-out. (Not that I blame anyone for leaving - its their career and they have to do what they feel is best - its just that TT seems to have got the rough end from the fans)

[GrahamC]

As the board were offered £400,000 on deadline day for a player who was definitely going to walk in a few weeks, and we were only a game or two from auto promotion, you can't blame the club for taking the money. The problem we had was not so much the replacements for Goater (Akinibiyi, Thorpe and Soren Andersen) but the failure to replace injured Shaun Taylor and the signing of at least one quality midfielder.

Not the way I saw it, Akinbiyi was a great buy, which explains why we paid £1.2m for him and got £3.5m back, the other two certainly weren't.

Andersen had a good goals to games ratio but wasn't an ideal partner for Akinbiyi because he couldn't do what Ade couldn't (hold the ball up), either.

Thorpe was a monumental waste of money, a £1m transfer fee, a rumoured £6k a week for a guy who never cut it above League One and who put in 50% effort most of the time. Well done for getting all those goals in games when we were already two up, though, Tony.

[Old Dazzler]

No he was injured playing against Exeter in the 4-0 home win in the Auto Windscreens area final.

Played Crocked in the final and that was basically that.

But the injury that wrecked his career was caused by a mishap in the shower.

[bucksred]

......and Murrey, ...Carey, .......Orr,......Johnson JNR..........Showumni........Jevons..........Smith.........Andrews....... all played at a higher level

Murray, a failed spell at Reading, and ex Villa.

Carey, failed spell at Cov

Orr, kid at Noocastle. did he play for the first team. don't think he did

Jonson minor, did he get regular 1st team action, if at all?

Showumni, super sub only, in the championship. Fairly regular at our level fer Lu'on

Jevons......youth action only. Oh yeah Grimby and Yeovile.

Smith, yer joking arent yer?

Andrews, one, and on loan only

Next batch of recruits please.

[bucksred]

They certainly sounded like they where moaning after winning 4-1 this weekend.

Enoch failing all season. - what a ridiculous comment. you've just been added to the ignore list.

god help us!! do you actually know what reality is?

[RedUn]

Goater had made it known that he definitely wanted to go from around the time we played Watford away in the December. His reasons were that he wanted to have a crack at playing in the premiership, which he ultimately achieved by joining Man City, even though we took their place at the end of that season.

... yes, that was the contemporary version of negotiations for public consumption ... "smoke'n'mirrors".

As the board were offered £400,000 on deadline day for a player who was definitely going to walk in a few weeks, and we were only a game or two from auto promotion, you can't blame the club for taking the money.

The board stated they "didn't want to repeat 1982" (by offering the Goat something he could accept).

The problem we had was not so much the replacements for Goater (Akinibiyi, Thorpe and Soren Andersen) but the failure to replace injured Shaun Taylor and the signing of at least one quality midfielder.

Please don't underestimate the resentment that the wages suddenly found for Akininbiyi, Thorpe, Andersen, Hutchings and Watts caused in the squad that had actually won promotion. Of those only Akinbiyi proved worth his salt.

But Goater spoke freely in the media about his desire to go at the end of his contract, exactly the way that Tony Thorpe did a few seasons later. It amuses me to this day that TT tends to get villified for doing exactly the same as The Goat, yet Goater still seems to be revered by the fans despite his planned walk-out. (Not that I blame anyone for leaving - its their career and they have to do what they feel is best - its just that TT seems to have got the rough end from the fans)

My only complaint about Thorpe is that he couldn't have left some years earlier than he did - the reason being nobody wanted to pay him anything like what we'd been giving him.

[greenun]

I recall a conversation with a relative of one of the other squad members at the time where the word was the Goat would have stayed for significantly less wages than Man City were offering (given they were going down and we were going up).

Unfortunately, City's board (fearing SG would set a marker for the rest of the promotion squad) were not prepared to negotiate the worth of a proven goalscorer and instead "cashed in" and went out and spent Archie Gooch's money on three other strikers of varying usefulness instead (and what sort of wages were they on?) ... for as long as we are in this division we will still be paying for the repercussions.

More unfortunately, we had a real striker in the making on loan from Wolves at the same time as McCarthy.

Sadly, this prodigeous talent was a little impetuous and finished his loan spell early by taking flight to play in an international tournament for Grenada, after taking the advice of his Uncle Cyrille. In the lad's defence, he was fed up of playing second fiddle to leather face.

Worse still, Wolves sold him the following summmer to the basement boys. Now that was a real loss too.

[Bristol Boy]

I recall a conversation with a relative of one of the other squad members at the time where the word was the Goat would have stayed for significantly less wages than Man City were offering (given they were going down and we were going up).

Unfortunately, City's board (fearing SG would set a marker for the rest of the promotion squad) were not prepared to negotiate the worth of a proven goalscorer and instead "cashed in" and went out and spent Archie Gooch's money on three other strikers of varying usefulness instead (and what sort of wages were they on?) ... for as long as we are in this division we will still be paying for the repercussions.

For me the key errors when we were last promoted were:

Not replacing the injured Sean Taylor without whom we wouldn't have got promoted.

Not hanging on to Jason Roberts as a partner for Adi Akinbiyi, we might have done a Watford.

Bringing Lenartson in for John Ward.One bloke who didn't know the Division for another who didn't know the division or the country.

There were other errors, but had we not made those we'd have at least consolidated.

[old_man_terry]

In 1998 John Ward was forced to sell Shaun Goater on the eve of the transfer deadline to Man City for £400k. The rationale behind this was that if left to the summer he could leave on a Bosman and the club would get nothing !!

Shortsighted or what ? Who was the replacement - fat boy Shaun McCarthy AND JASON ROBERTS he scored no more than 2 goals if my memory serves me correctly and after looking confident of taking the title City lost out to Watford [just like we lost out to the gas in 90 when Taylor missed thr last 8 games having reached 34 goals].

all that matters is promotion, the Championship is just a bonus.

like many majority of people care more about promotion and couldn't care less about the title, much like the teams of 98 and 90

as for the mistakes of 98...this biggest was letting the chairman sign the players and not the manager