Sheffield United Appeal

[A Horse With No Name]

Not sure if this has been posted already but it is quite important. Apparently, if Sheffield United win their arbitration appeal against West Ham fielding illegal players, it has been decided that West Ham will not be relegated, but Sheffield will be re instated to a Premier League of 21 teams. The fixture list for the PL will have to be re done as they have already been published.

OK so far, but this will have far reaching effects on the Championship obviously. Our division will then be reduced to 23 teams, meaning that our club will be losing revenue for one game. Also, what effect would it have on season ticket prices, already paid for by most, if we only have 22 home games instead of 23. Suely a reduction at this stage would be impossible, and therefore the actual cost of a season ticket would increase still further. per game.

I believe that it is very very unlikely that United will win their case, however, they state that they have such a strong legal case, that they cannot fail. I for one hope they do, for several reasons.

[bartolona]

Sheffield United will get compensation and imo that's what this whole thing is about.

[Maltshoveller]

I hope sheff utd win their case

West Ham like it or not used illegal players

They should have been docked point

and therefor be playing in our league next season

If it was the likes of sheff utd/watford that had cheated

the prem league would have come down on them

like a ton of bricks

[Redhyde]

Not sure if this has been posted already but it is quite important. It isn't. Apparently, if Sheffield United win their arbitration appeal they won't against West Ham fielding illegal players because that's not the argument, it has been decided that West Ham will not be relegated has it? by whom?, but Sheffield will be re instated to a Premier League of 21 teams. The fixture list for the PL will have to be re done as they have already been published.

1) Nothing will happen.

2) On the very unlikely prospect that it does there won't be a 21 team premiership or a 23 team championship. They'll follow what happened in Serie A last year.

Originally three teams were relegated (Lazio, Fiorentina, Juventus) and the three teams in the relagation places stayed up (Messina, Lecce and Treviso) but two of them successfully appealed (Lazio and Fiorentina) and the teams that originally went down did so (Lecce and Treviso) while Messina stayed up.

No more silly 21 team premiership scare stories please!

[BS10 RED]

I hope sheff utd win their case

West Ham like it or not used illegal players

They should have been docked point

and therefor be playing in our league next season

If it was the likes of sheff utd/watford that had cheated

the prem league would have come down on them

like a ton of bricks

I agree with this west ham should not be in the prem this season they cheated end of story. A £5million fine was stupid thats not hitting them where it hurts.

[Ian M]

I hope sheff utd win their case

West Ham like it or not used illegal players

They should have been docked point

and therefor be playing in our league next season

If it was the likes of sheff utd/watford that had cheated

the prem league would have come down on them

like a ton of bricks

In the papers this morning it is suggested that Sheffield United also broke the same regulation that they are so upset with West Ham for breaking by refusing Watford permission to play Steve Kabba against them after he had signed permanently for them (3rd party interference).

I understand that if Sheff Utd are unsuccessful in their appeal they plan to go to the European Court to seek compensation from the PL. However, if they are successful and do get re-instated, should the remaining 23 Championship clubs seek compensation for loss of earnings in the 07/08 season? Who would this claim then be against? The PL or Sheffield Utd themselves?

[Andy Horsman]

There is a cartel at the pinnacle of English football looking after the interests, ie revenues of the big boys,remember Swindon getting demoted for illegal payments when Tottenham got their knuckles wrapped? I agree had it been Sheffield Utd fielding an ineligible player, then they would probably have incurred a greater punishment than a £5m fine.These inequalities are sickening and smaller clubs like ourselves should be wary about football 'justice'.Sheffield Utd will not win their appeal, not a snowballs hope in hell imo.

[A Horse With No Name]

1) Nothing will happen.

2) On the very unlikely prospect that it does there won't be a 21 team premiership or a 23 team championship. They'll follow what happened in Serie A last year.

Originally three teams were relegated (Lazio, Fiorentina, Juventus) and the three teams in the relagation places stayed up (Messina, Lecce and Treviso) but two of them successfully appealed (Lazio and Fiorentina) and the teams that originally went down did so (Lecce and Treviso) while Messina stayed up.

No more silly 21 team premiership scare stories please!

That was a very confrontational reply. And just how do you know what you are saying is true?

[Redhyde]

That was a very confrontational reply. And just how do you know what you are saying is true?

See, what I'm doing is making an educated guess basing it on the most recent and high profile case involving scandal and relegations in football.

What's your reasoning?

[Guest Eamer]

There's no chance of the Premiership having 21 teams and Championship having 23. Not many leagues in the world have an odd number of teams let alone two of the best supported ones in the world. Also it would mean that one team would have to sit out each week while all the other 20 teams player each other because of the stupid odd number. Weren't the Premiership talking about decreasing the amount of teams in the league a little while ago too? Just can't see it. Premiership were talking about reducing it to 18 teams I believe so can't see them going out of their way for Sheffield United to make it 21. If they successfully appeal they will probably just get compensation. If it is a matter of promotion though then West Ham will get relegated.

Where did you hear this anyway? :-/

[A Horse With No Name]

See, what I'm doing is making an educated guess basing it on the most recent and high profile case involving scandal and relegations in football.

What's your reasoning?

I happen to agree with you that it is very unlikely that United will win. However, i have been reading a very good article today, that outlines the case, and states that United have already been informed three times by senior officials within the Premier League, that there would be a 21 team PL next season IF they are successful. My concern is that the Championship doesn't seem to have been considered in this, although that is not surpising because to the PL bigwigs, there is no life outside the Premiership.

[Redhyde]

I happen to agree with you that it is very unlikely that United will win. However, i have been reading a very good article today, that outlines the case, and states that United have already been informed three times by senior officials within the Premier League, that there would be a 21 team PL next season IF they are successful. My concern is that the Championship doesn't seem to have been considered in this, although that is not surpising because to the PL bigwigs, there is no life outside the Premiership.

Can you link the article please?

[A Horse With No Name]

Can you link the article please?

I would but I am not that computer literate. Sorry. Maybe somebody else who has read the same article would care to do so.

[Redhyde]

I would but I am not that computer literate. Sorry. Maybe somebody else who has read the same article would care to do so.

Just post the url then if you would please.

the "www.21teampremiershipstory.com"

Or say where you found the article and i'll find it via searching.

Actually i've probably found it.... http://www.squarefootball.net/article/article.asp?aid=4508

What that states and the common misconception amongst fans (including me too) is that they've fielded "INELIGIBLE PLAYERS". When a team does that they get docked points. However they've got done for breaking contract regulations under the third party ownership rule which there isn't a precedent for.

Quite why fielding a player with contract irregularities isn't the same as fielding an ineligible player is beyond me,but that's the ruling. That's why Sheff Utd won't get anywhere, because there isn't a precedent to say "well you did this to them for the same offense so why haven't you this time?"

Sheffield are still complaining about ineligible players when that's not what West Ham have done.

They can argue against the punishment, but they've got no basis to do so. It's the Premier Leagues opinion on the matter and a precedent case so they can basically do what they like as long as they're consistent in the future with this issue.

[Guest DanC]

Not sure if this has been posted already but it is quite important. Apparently, if Sheffield United win their arbitration appeal against West Ham fielding illegal players, it has been decided that West Ham will not be relegated, but Sheffield will be re instated to a Premier League of 21 teams. The fixture list for the PL will have to be re done as they have already been published.

OK so far, but this will have far reaching effects on the Championship obviously. Our division will then be reduced to 23 teams, meaning that our club will be losing revenue for one game. Also, what effect would it have on season ticket prices, already paid for by most, if we only have 22 home games instead of 23. Suely a reduction at this stage would be impossible, and therefore the actual cost of a season ticket would increase still further. per game.

I believe that it is very very unlikely that United will win their case, however, they state that they have such a strong legal case, that they cannot fail. I for one hope they do, for several reasons.

If Sheff Utd are successful and win there case and get reinstated to the prem then I'm guessing that Southend would be reinstated to the Championship. However in the unlikely event that the Championship will have 23 teams for season ticket holders I would expect the club to give us free entry to a cup game.

[cider11]

If Sheff Utd are successful and win there case and get reinstated to the prem then I'm guessing that Southend would be reinstated to the Championship. However in the unlikely event that the Championship will have 23 teams for season ticket holders I would expect the club to give us free entry to a cup game.

But if you reinstate southend to the championship, then would have to do that in all the leagues going down, so there would then be 23 if southend stay up so a relegated league 1 side would then stay up again. Then next year the premier league would have to relegate 4 teams to get it back to 20 teams, then if only 3 teams go up to the prem, the championship would end up with 25 clubs, or would every league relegate one more team than normal to keep them all with the right numbers.

[Guest DanC]

But if you reinstate southend to the championship, then would have to do that in all the leagues going down, so there would then be 23 if southend stay up so a relegated league 1 side would then stay up again. Then next year the premier league would have to relegate 4 teams to get it back to 20 teams, then if only 3 teams go up to the prem, the championship would end up with 25 clubs, or would every league relegate one more team than normal to keep them all with the right numbers.

If there is to be a 21 team Prem then that is really the only way to do it.

[bartolona]

The only way this would work is all the teams promoted through the play offs stay down, Derby stay in the Championship, Blackpool stay in League 1 etc

[Guest Ron]

Sir Trevor Brooking used to play for West Ham and still has an association with them. He is also very influential within the FA - he was known as a very fair player and represented West ham and Enlgand with distinction, maybe he should intervene.

Or maybe he already has..

It is an Independent Tribunal, so Trevor Brooking won't get a say in anything.

[Guest Ron]

Read it again Ron..

I don't know how I can read "intervene" as "interview".

[stick]

cant see it happening (21 club PL)

it would open up the leagues to all kinds of actions in the future if they set a precedent

the FA will not want to be seen as "backing down" as they don't like loosing face on anything (just look at the wembley saga)

[Cyderman]

In the papers this morning it is suggested that Sheffield United also broke the same regulation that they are so upset with West Ham for breaking by refusing Pompey permission to play Steve Kabba against them after he had signed permanently for them (3rd party interference).

I understand that if Sheff Utd are unsuccessful in their appeal they plan to go to the European Court to seek compensation from the PL. However, if they are successful and do get re-instated, should the remaining 23 Championship clubs seek compensation for loss of earnings in the 07/08 season? Who would this claim then be against? The PL or Sheffield Utd themselves?

Crikey, if that happens then most of the countries sporting lawyers will probably die of excitement!

[CodeRed]

The only way this would work is all the teams promoted through the play offs stay down, Derby stay in the Championship, Blackpool stay in League 1 etc

Definately the best and fairest solution !!!

tough on Morecambe though

[Geoff65]

How likely is it for Sheffield Utd to win - well my understanding of the case is that a disciplinary panel was set up by the premier league and those who sat on the panel were in a pool of "judges" that the whole of the premier league agreed were independent.

The panel had the evidence put in front of them and then had to choose which sanctions would be most appropriate for disciplining West Ham - they decided amongst themselves what the most appropriate sanction was and imposed the fines.

Basically the panel used their "discretion" and came up with the answer. I have some experience in "discretion" cases when it comes to pensions and trustees using their discretion.

The only time a Judge would over turn a decision made by a group of trustees is when their solution to the decision they came up with was so obtuse that no other panel of independent people would have come up with the same solution e.g. in the sheffield utd case - if 200 more panels were constituted to make a decision on the discipline handed out to West Ham - none of them would have settled for just a fine - bear in mind West Ham pleaded guilty then in my view a fine is a reasonable sanction that a panel could come up with e.g. I think of the 200 new panels set up - I think when presented with the facts - a few of them would come down with a fine as punishment.

In my mind the punishment wasnt fair and was unjust - but did the panel come to a conclusion that no other panel of indepentent people come up with? I think they didnt - they came up with a fine that other panels could have come up with and as such used their "discretion" appropriately - they were wrong but their discretion to come up with the decision they did wasn't inappropriate to the point no one else would have come to the same decision.

Unfortunately I think Sheffield Utd will lose their appeal - even though "right" is on their side.

[bh_red]

nothing will happen, West Ham will stay up, Sheffield will stay down and get a payoff.

[Eddie Hitler]

Right or wrong is not the issue.

They have a case and look like they're really going to push it. They may win.

[Nibor]

My bet is that Sheff Utd will be playing Championship football next season and they won't be getting any payoff.

I thnk the only reason they're carrying on is they've put themselves in a corner now and can't back down.

Common sense dictates that you can't overturn a relegation over 38 games because of one contractual issue with one player, and you can't give compensation because every other club will want it.

My guess is the tribunal will agree that the punishment was reasonable if not the one they might have picked and that the player's registration was never in question and we will then see a statement like "we're disappointed but we need to focus on next season" from Sheff Utd.

[Moth Eaten Pillow]

Sheffield Utd got less points than the 4th from bottom placed team and are now throwing their toys out of the pram. When they bang on about every other football fan wants them reinstated there wrong again because about 90% of the people I've spoken to think there rightly relegated.

[Guest Eamer]

Apparently Sheffield United might've broken the same rule West Ham did due to the transfer of Steve Kabba to Watford! Haha

[Steve Watts]

If there is to be a 21 team Prem then that is really the only way to do it.

Not at all....I'm sure we've had a 91 team league at some point due to closures etc - all that will happen if there is a 21 team league is that for one season only, there will be 21 teams in the Prem, 23 in the Championship with a 3 up, 4 down between the two leagues.

Free entry to a cup game is a non starter as A) we may not get a home game in the cup, and B) we need to split the proceeds between the two participating clubs, so the visiting side would need to agree to take a hit on revenue, which simply won't happen.