Standing At Football

[bringbacktherobin]

Fans at ashton gate are getting constant threats of being thrown out and banned from ashton gate for the crime of standing.

Not getting banned due to causing trouble but due to standing.

There is a campaign called STANDUPSITDOWN, which aims to work with football supporters, clubs and safety authorities, to achieve a common sense solution to the issue of standing, for the benefit of all concerned.

It is also campaigning for decisions related to standing to be made in partnership with supporters, and to be based on

objective safety assessments, but whilst maintaining a balance between safety and individual freedom.

I know a number of other city fans are already signed up to the campaign and are active on the standupsitdown forum.

If you wish to get standing back at football, visit www.standupsitdown.co.uk

THE CAMPAIGN - Background

Stand Up Sit Down was launched in July 2004 in response to growing conflict between supporters, clubs and safety authorities with regard to persistent standing in seated areas.

Our membership covers supporters of over 130 clubs, and includes both those who wish to stand and those who prefer to sit.

The campaign's name was specifically chosen to indicate that we want to get back to supporters having a choice as to whether they stand or sit. It is not just a campaign for fans who want to stand, but is for all football supporters.

With a little common sense and compromise on all sides this issue could easily be resolved.

The campaign was set up with the objective to get at least one area of each ground where standing will be allowed, provided that supporters keep to a Code of Conduct.

We aim to work with the safety authorities and clubs to agree the most suitable areas for standing where this causes is no real risk.

We accept that standing should not be permitted in areas where this could cause a significant safety hazard.

By restricting standing to the most suitable areas we would improve safety over the current situation. By separating those who wish to stand from those who prefer to sit, we would overcome the customer care issues.

WHY THIS CAMPAIGN IS NECESSARY

To varying degrees, there are difficulties at most clubs because some supporters have a very strong desire to stand, and may block the views of those who prefer to sit.

Until recent years spectators had a choice as to whether they sit or stand. Football is a passionate game, and many supporters prefer to stand, as they feel more involved, and it is more conducive to creating the unique atmosphere of British football.

The authorities seek to prevent persistent standing, but increasing sanctions such as ejections, bans, capacity and ticket reductions, will affect all supporters, could lead to disorder, and will have an increasing financial impact on clubs. However despite these efforts, thousands of fans continue to stand every week.

The time spent on this issue by the safety authorities is out of all proportion to the risks involved, and a resolution would allow them to concentrate resources on other more pressing issues.

The Government appears unwilling to listen to reasoned argument, and although there is a very good case for the re-introduction of safe terraced areas, it appears unlikely that this will be permitted in the foreseeable future.

A compromise solution based on common sense appears to be the best way forward for all concerned.

[bristolcityup]

Here is my idea which is good but obviously not great for health and saftey at the Gate..

In each block in each of the stands why not make the first 4/5 back rows an option to sit or stand. This would make sense at as the people standing would only be at the back, others cant moan that views are being obscured..All of the rows seats could be sold at a special rate so the fans have to pay a little bit more to stand, plus they would have a good veiw at the back of the stands... Any thoughts..

[Dollymarie]

Can I just make everyone aware of this email I have recieved this morning from the Supporters Trust network I am a member of

All

Some VERY good news. Wycombe Wanderers FC has agreed to host a Fans United

Safe Standing Day at its home match on Sunday 9 September 2007 kick-off

1.30pm. This game is live on Sky.

WE NEED HUNDREDS OF FANS FROM OTHER CLUBS DESCENDING ON WYCOMBE THAT DAY

DRESSED IN CLUB COLOURS!

This is IMPORTANT. Drop everything, get on to all your football mates, club

websites/message- boards and spread the word NOW!

Let Amanda Matthews (ajm22769@yahoo. co.uk) or me know about your attendance

and how many you'll be bringing. Let's turn Wycombe into a football United

Nations for the day, make it a great day out for everybody. Both SUSD and

the FSF are fully behind this. The club will be invited all the other 91

clubs and all the 145 MPs who have signed the pro safe-standing House of

Commons Early Day Motion.

GO FOR IT PEOPLE, HIT THE PHONES/EMAIL NOW!

Regards

Steven Powell

Director of Policy & Campaigns

The Football Supporters' Federation

[WTFiGO!?!]

The authoreties need to get over their issues and deceitful agenda's and apply some common sense.

I'm proud of those taking a mature approach to try and get this resolved.

[CiderHider]

What an complete load of bollox this safe standing crap is, no **** tells me to sit down, if i wish to stand i will, good luck the the stewards, who at AG are utter imbeciles like most of the other ***** i expect.

Health and safty?, pffft, **** health and safty, what has ever happened from people standing up watch football, its crazy limp wristed PC SHITE!!!

oh noes!!!1 i cant see the game, your in the way, oh rly?? WELL **** OFF!!!

My advice is Just ignore the rules, screw them, what can they do? its a total ###### liberty pisstake anways, i would encourage people to stand, no, i would ask them to jump up and down and try to break the stand, that would be fun and prove that its safe, if it break, **** it.

[WTFiGO!?!]

What an complete load of bollox this safe standing crap is, no **** tells me to sit down, if i wish to stand i will, good luck the the stewards, who at AG are utter imbeciles like most of the other ***** i expect.

Health and safty?, pffft, **** health and safty, what has ever happened from people standing up watch football, its crazy limp wristed PC SHITE!!!

oh noes!!!1 i cant see the game, your in the way, oh rly?? WELL **** OFF!!!

My advice is Just ignore the rules, screw them, what can they do? its a total ###### liberty pisstake anways, i would encourage people to stand, no, i would ask them to jump up and down and try to break the stand, that would be fun and prove that its safe, if it break, **** it.

Good to get things of your chest innit?

[Bristol Boy]

Until those in charge at AG understand the diference between safe standing (Ala Germany) and a return to terracing, it won't happen..........They don't-They don't want fans in the EE-The Police don't want anyone in the ground at all.

That's the problem.

Where there is a will, there's a way........but there's absolutely no will on behalf of the clubs Executives and for everyone that writes articles and comments on a fans forum there are ten others who just walk away or pick and choose their games.

[CiderHider]

Good to get things of your chest innit?

It sure is, i feel much better now!

..and breathe....

[Redhyde]

I think it's hard to pin the blame on the hierarchy at AG! Try the government or those at the pesky Hillsborough Family Support Group. They are the people who are against it and the ones effectively stopping it coming back in the uk.

But then, it's easy to get angry at Steve and Colin, not families who lost their loved ones in a disaster.

Here's the question that i heard their chairman ask which got me. Is safe standing safer than sitting down? No it isn't, quite simply it isn't. Therefore why do we need it?

I personally think it's up to us whether we want to take that risk but don't feel strongly enough to care either way or do anything about it. Surely the European court would be the place to go? Human rights may actually help football fans if someone wanted to challenge it if they haven't already.

[Bristol Boy]

I think it's hard to pin the blame on the hierarchy at AG!

When the Chairman tells a meeting at AG that it'll never happen while he's Chairman, it's not difficult.

But then, it's easy to get angry at Steve and Colin, not families who lost their loved ones in a disaster.

Either way it doesn't matter if they're wrong or not listening.

Here's the question that i heard their chairman ask which got me. Is safe standing safer than sitting down? No it isn't, quite simply it isn't. Therefore why do we need it?

I personally think it's up to us whether we want to take that risk but don't feel strongly enough to care either way or do anything about it. Surely the European court would be the place to go? Human rights may actually help football fans if someone wanted to challenge it if they haven't already.

It's a question of behaviour, not sitting or standing.

If you look at hooliganism at home & abroad, you'll find the two main areas for trouble are outside the grounds and in seated areas-Look at disasters and the Bradford fire was in a seated area.Some of the worst incidents at AG have been in seated areas.

Safe standing areas aren't inherently unsafe, neither are seats and some of the clubs that have standing abroad have more fans on one end than we get in total.They have flares, flags, light fires, jump about and, frankly,put us to shame for noise-week in, week out H&S does not appear to be an issue.

I genuinely think that CS in particular should be running The Royal Ballet as opposed to a football club.

[bringbacktherobin]

Good to see there is a growing need for safe standing at football matches, please sign up to the forum http://s12.invisionfree.com/StandUpSitDown and contribute because i feel that some day soon they will have to take notice.

More and more people each week are standing at football matches.

There is also a recently formed South Wales And Westcountry Susd Group which is still only in the infant stage but could do with more members.

People are right, it is quite easy to blame the club for it actions on match days but it isnt their fault. They need to tick boxes to say that they are fighting standing at ashton gate.

[churchill ciderhead]

Good to see there is a growing need for safe standing at football matches, please sign up to the forum http://s12.invisionfree.com/StandUpSitDown and contribute because i feel that some day soon they will have to take notice.

More and more people each week are standing at football matches.

There is also a recently formed South Wales And Westcountry Susd Group which is still only in the infant stage but could do with more members.

People are right, it is quite easy to blame the club for it actions on match days but it isnt their fault. They need to tick boxes to say that they are fighting standing at ashton gate.

If you think of children (our future fans) they cannot see when other people stand!!!!!!!

If you had a segrigated area for standing. Children would use this because they would want to be in the atmosphere area. But it would be very dangerous when the croud go mad.

Standing will always give better atmospheres. But because of litigation towards football teams, it will never be allowed again in stadiums which have already converted to all seating! IMO.

I always loved the terrace standing. Much better atmospheres.

[Flaxbourton Red]

What an complete load of bollox this safe standing crap is, no **** tells me to sit down, if i wish to stand i will, good luck the the stewards, who at AG are utter imbeciles like most of the other ***** i expect.

Health and safty?, pffft, **** health and safty, what has ever happened from people standing up watch football, its crazy limp wristed PC SHITE!!!

oh noes!!!1 i cant see the game, your in the way, oh rly?? WELL **** OFF!!!

My advice is Just ignore the rules, screw them, what can they do? its a total ###### liberty pisstake anways, i would encourage people to stand, no, i would ask them to jump up and down and try to break the stand, that would be fun and prove that its safe, if it break, **** it.

a poor attempt

[churchill ciderhead]

a poor attempt

I don't mean to sound rude. But if you had children, you would always worry about them and would want to protect them.

Standing was fantastic in my day, but I never thought of the dangers back then. We would not want another Hillsbough!

[Flaxbourton Red]

I don't mean to sound rude. But if you had children, you would always worry about them and would want to protect them.

Standing was fantastic in my day, but I never thought of the dangers back then. We would not want another Hillsbough!

back when we had standing, you could sit in the dolman no problemo

as long as we don't have the south yorkshire police in charge at ashton gate and an out of date safety certificate (a la SWFC)

we should be ok

edit = just to add

i was able to stand safely at Stafford Rangers today without any probs, just as people have done for the last 100 years or so

[bringbacktherobin]

churchill ciderhead, its for safe standing in front of your seats which many many people do week in week out anyway. Not a return to massive terraces.

Also if it is unsafe as they say, why can children in the lower leauges risk their lives stood on terracing? Surley its just as unsafe.

The police officer who was in charge at the Hillsbough game, it was his first ever big game to manage also as flaxburton said Wednesday had a out of a date safety certificate.

[churchill ciderhead]

churchill ciderhead, its for safe standing in front of your seats which many many people do week in week out anyway. Not a return to massive terraces.

Also if it is unsafe as they say, why can children in the lower leauges risk their lives stood on terracing? Surley its just as unsafe.

The police officer who was in charge at the Hillsbough game, it was his first ever big game to manage also as flaxburton said Wednesday had a out of a date safety certificate.

To get money and planning permission, teams have to go down the road of all seated. (Not the Gas) But if somebody wanted to use the Memorial Shed. The Prem league would not let them in.

Once again people stand up in front of us and my children complain to me, "I did'nt see!" this or get annoyed! I don't complain to them because I agree it makes a better atmosphere.

[bringbacktherobin]

But thats what we want, sections of the ground where people can go to stand if they want to. And if people want to sit down for the game can sit down.

Again it is not about a return to terracing, thats why it doesnt matter if it is all seated or not. Its about being able to stand infront of your seat without being thrown out.

If you didnt want your view blocked then you wouldnt go to the part of the ground that was put aside for the "standers".

[East End Lad]

This is so simple if only ceretain people could see our side of the argument. For the people that want to sit down, no problem, let them do excatily that. For the people that want to stand (people in the East End week in week out as an example), let them do that. I can see why people shouldnt stand front row Atyeo for example, it would block views, but what the hell is wrong with a few houndred people standing in the East End on a Saturday afternoon. The problem is though that to many people just arnt prepared to look at both sides of the argument.

[Flaxbourton Red]

To get money and planning permission, teams have to go down the road of all seated. (Not the Gas) But if somebody wanted to use the Memorial Shed. The Prem league would not let them in.

Once again people stand up in front of us and my children complain to me, "I did'nt see!" this or get annoyed! I don't complain to them because I agree it makes a better atmosphere.

all seater stadiums don't work, as people invariably stand up in them especially in moments of drama

its a real shame that people who want to sit and those that want to stand are lumped together

nobody is happy in this situation and it's about time the football authorities and the government listened to fans

[bringbacktherobin]

This was in todays telegraph

Man behind 'stay seated' drive says it's failing

The man behind the controversial policy of forcing standing fans to sit admits the crackdown is failing - but he has still picked up an £8,000 performance bonus in his £80,000 salary.

John de Quidt, the Football Licensing Authority (FLA) chief executive, masterminds clubs' anti-standing campaigns, one of the biggest frustrations among fans in the Premier League and Championship.

The civil servant, in charge of the organisation which licenses grounds, has confessed the anti-standing move - a 'key priority' this year - is being ruined by supporters refusing to sit.

However, de Quidt will still earn £72,105 plus an £8,000 performance bonus this year from his paymasters at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS).

The FLA's 2006-07 annual report revealed de Quidt's pay figure and identified a key target as: "Persuade authorities and clubs to accept responsibility for eliminating persistent standing. Secure significant reduction in visiting supporters standing."

However, the FLA's performance review admitted: "Progress tackling persistent standing in seated areas continued to be disappointing. A vocal minority insist on standing. This was most prominent among visiting supporters from Aston Villa, Cardiff, Leeds United, Liverpool, Manchester United, Newcastle and West Ham.

"We have long recognised that, if significant numbers of spectators are determined to stand, the options available on the day are limited."

Supporters' leaders backing calls for the return of standing areas in the top two divisions - banned since the 1989 Hillsborough disaster - seized on the admission last night.

Amanda Matthews, of Stand Up Sit Down, said: "The taxpayer has seen a highly-paid civil servant rewarded with a healthy bonus - even though the FLA admit they failed to ensure supporters remain seated. It leads me to ask: why don't the FLA simply accept some supporters wish to stand?

"The FLA should advise the DCMS that standing should be properly managed.The risk of disorder has also increased as many clubs send in 'snatch squads' to remove fans standing in seated areas."

The pro-standing lobby was boosted last week when it emerged the Government is expected to consider the return of terraces.

Looks like the tide is turning!!!

[East End Lad]

To be honest the tide is going to have to turn surely. The fact is if a group of people absolutely refuse to sit, then there is not a lot anyone can do. What was a surprise to me in that though is that the government are going to consider a return to terraces. Anyone know when there will start to happen. The sooner the better.

[cider11]

The fact is if a group of people absolutely refuse to sit, then there is not a lot anyone can do.

Thats the thing to do is if everyone is standing and most people ignore the stewards pleas to sit down then the stewards soon don't bother, as I went to wastch Southampton vs Preston last season, and behind one goal from half way up the stand they were all standing, and 2 stewards tried to get them seated, and after a while gave up as wasnt going to happen that they'd sit. Also when i've been in away ends of prem grounds they normally always stand, at the emirates on saturday the man city fans mostly were stood up for nearly all the game. Its the same aswell when i've been wacting aston villa away, at Anfield and Chalton last season they were stood throughout, with the stewards not asking them to sit down.

[bringbacktherobin]

I think the thing to do is to try and get a change in rules.

[Bristol Boy]

I don't mean to sound rude. But if you had children, you would always worry about them and would want to protect them.

Standing was fantastic in my day, but I never thought of the dangers back then. We would not want another Hillsbough!

Hillsborough was all about bad organisation coupled with bad behaviour-not standing or sitting that's far to simplisitic and look at the nonsense caused by fans without tickets at the last "all seated" Champ League Final.Far bigger crowds at AG when I was a kid, who got killed?

This is so simple if only ceretain people could see our side of the argument. For the people that want to sit down, no problem, let them do excatily that. For the people that want to stand (people in the East End week in week out as an example), let them do that. I can see why people shouldnt stand front row Atyeo for example, it would block views, but what the hell is wrong with a few houndred people standing in the East End on a Saturday afternoon. The problem is though that to many people just arnt prepared to look at both sides of the argument.

CS being one and SL being another.

Safe Standing and a return to old fashioned Terracing are totally different things.

[Mre]

all i can say is there are seats in ashton gate so bloody use them!!!

[wookey]

I can remember in the 1970s when we were in Div 1, now known as the Premiership, only the rich were seated in the Grandstands and the rest of us stood on the terraces.

Before the games we used to all sit on the terraces and idly chatter that if only no one stood up we could see the game perfectly well and much more comfortably. Of course, when one stood up we all stood up...

From my decades on the terraces came the line: "A third of the people in the UK are over 6ft tall and they all stand in front of me at Bristol City!"

I can see better in a seat.

[Dollymarie]

Personally I prefer sitting down, and jumping up and down when necessary in the game, BUT I completely understand thats not for everyone, and so thats why there needs to be a block of safe standing somewhere in my opinion.

Theres nothing more annoying than, as I was at Blackpool being forced to stand because the people in front of you want to stand, and then everyone behind them has to stand to see, an elderly lady was sat by me, god knows how she saw any of the game. Not slagging the standing off here, just think it needs to all be in the same place so that those who want to sit, can do so as well.

[ooRya]

But thats what we want, sections of the ground where people can go to stand if they want to. And if people want to sit down for the game can sit down.

Again it is not about a return to terracing, thats why it doesnt matter if it is all seated or not. Its about being able to stand infront of your seat without being thrown out.

If you didnt want your view blocked then you wouldnt go to the part of the ground that was put aside for the "standers".

What is all this cobblers about "safe standing and being able to stand in front of your seat?" Is this what all the campaigning is for? If so, what a complete waste of time!!

TERRACING.....that's what it should be about. That's what will re-introduce a match day atmosphere of old back to football grounds. That's what younger people look at from old footage and say "wish I could have been there". That's what older people look back fondly at and recall exciting times and memories.

The East End, Grandstand, Open End were all standing and never were nor never would have been dangerous as a result of being able to stand.

Campaign for terracing or don't bother campaigning at all!

[bringbacktherobin]

Dollymarie, its choice that stand up sit down is after.

So if like yourself you can go and sit down, and other fans if they wish can go and stand.

ooRya, i think i will carry on campaigning thank you. The government i doubt will ever go back to terracing however safe they may be.

At least a ruling allowing you to stand infront of your seat is a step forward, and do you except city and other clubs to rebuild whole stands so they can have terracing?