Where Would We Be Now?

[Big Red Rich]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back....................................

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save........................

[giles_23_bcfc]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back..........

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save...........

All if's and but's.

IF Phillips saved the penalty then who knows. BUT whos to say we wouldnt have gone on to win.

That penalty and defeat bottled up more years of frustration for City fans which was finally let out on that glorious day in May when we beat Rotherham 3-1. I still get goosebumps thinking back and watching clips of that day. It is the first promotion i have properly experienced with only being 8 the last time we won promotion.

[Midge]

It's a good topic for discussion this one but their are so many what if's in the recent history of our club.

For instance would we have been relegated if John Ward had been allowed Ray Harford as his no2 in 1998;

What would have happened if Swansea had beaten us 2-0 on that awful day a few years back

If we'd appointed Peter Taylor when we had the chance

Or even the one which I often ask myelf;would we have gone up if DW had one more season.

I'm sure this will be a big topic as many fans will point to so many others.

But the common answer is that we will never know,let's wonder where we might be when GJ's new contract expires,

I will say this;if he gets another extension in 2010 I will be very happy.

[054123]

A question i always ponder is what if a group of gentlemen would not have met in an Eastville restaurant in September 1883 and never formed the Black Arabs???

People go on about Bristol not being a football city, but with only one team in a city the size of ours who knows what we could've achieved!!!!

I know one thing for certain, if Newcastle had two team who flirted around the 2nd/3rd divisions they both only be pulling in around 8-10k a week and people would be saying "but it's not really a football city".

[Darth Vader]

Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record.

Irrespective of what he did as manager, Tinnion is still a City legend as far as I am concerned.

[BristolCity1992]

Yeah but the If and Buts are part of the qustion its just a little bit of fun imo.

Anyway we would I think have come back down I don't know if DW quite has "it" to get the best out of players in the way that Gary does, Gary has turned us into good hard working team that can play good football but also is not scared to go backs to wall and really graft for a win ala Sheff Weds

[Midge]

Yeah but the If and Buts are part of the qustion its just a little bit of fun imo.

Anyway we would I think have come back down I don't know if DW quite has "it" to get the best out of players in the way that Gary does, Gary has turned us into good hard working team that can play good football but also is not scared to go backs to wall and really graft for a win ala Sheff Weds

Oh yeah I agree,it's a very good post that will generate lot's of interest and I think it's great when this sort of question pops up as it allows fans to look back in time which most of us enjoy.

To answer the question though,maybe we'd have struggled if we'd gone up but I think we'd have rode the storm and been an established side in the CCC.

[Guest]

What if Cheesley had never got injured? We might have stayed in the top flight for 20+ years and become established.

It's no point looking back, look to the future. The future is Red & White, The future is GJ

[rockin-robin]

A question i always ponder is what if a group of gentlemen would not have met in an Eastville restaurant in September 1883 and never formed the Black Arabs???

People go on about Bristol not being a football city, but with only one team in a city the size of ours who knows what we could've achieved!!!!

I know one thing for certain, if Newcastle had two team who flirted around the 2nd/3rd divisions they both only be pulling in around 8-10k a week and people would be saying "but it's not really a football city".

Agree totally, people are sometimes too quick to jump on the bandwaggon when it comes to attendances and how well supported a club is.

Bristol has two WELL supported teams and I am in no doubt that if there was only one team in Bristol the average gate would be closer to 20K for each game irrespective of who they were playing. Perhaps only would you see a huge fluctuation if that team was to frequent the 4 division/conference.

Now if that team were in the Premiership, the city of Bristol football team would definately need a stadium to fit at least 40K spectators.

[downendcity]

What if Cheesley had never got injured? We might have stayed in the top flight for 20+ years and become established.

It's no point looking back, look to the future. The future is Red & White, The future is GJ

But of Cheelsey had not been injured would we have been able to hang on to him?

[greenun]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back..........

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save...........

That's a very good question Rich. Steve Lansdown once stated that he felt the play-off semi-final losing team of 2002/03 was better than their 2003/04 contemporaries.

By expanding this theory you could say that the play-off final losing team was at the peak of it's powers and in my opinion, there were too many demons lurking beneath the surface for that team to make an impact in what is now the Championship.

For example, Peacock missed that final due to injury and may have stayed, whilst Doherty and Coles were also known to like the nightlife a little too much. Miller and Roberts were struggling to score and Tinnion was 36 years-old.

We had reached the final despite Wilson, because Hartlepool had outplayed us over the two legs and our turgid tactics against Brighton made ffor one of the worst games in living memory. That side was creaking, and I believe what followed has, in retrospect, been good for the club, because we now have a manager capable of taking the team higher and mentoring a burgeoning squad of players.

In short, its a great time to be a City fan.

[formerly known as ivan]

i believe there is never a bad time for sucess and the sooner you get it the better, but looking back over the last few years, I'm happy how things have panned out and the direction were heading now.

if we had won that play-off final, we could now be playing champions league football, on the other hand we could of come straight back down and now playing in the conference.

I'm happy with how things are at the moment

[giles_23_bcfc]

Agree totally, people are sometimes too quick to jump on the bandwaggon when it comes to attendances and how well supported a club is.

Bristol has two WELL supported teams and I am in no doubt that if there was only one team in Bristol the average gate would be closer to 20K for each game irrespective of who they were playing. Perhaps only would you see a huge fluctuation if that team was to frequent the 4 division/conference.

Now if that team were in the Premiership, the city of Bristol football team would definately need a stadium to fit at least 40K spectators.

Great point. But, unless us or Rovers go out of business then Bristol will always have 2 clubs. As much speculation as there has been etc, City and Rovers will never merge. They have nothing to offer us in terms of facilities, players, Boardroom members, money etc. The only thing would be the Memorial shed as a training ground.

City and Rovers have 2 of the best followings, especially away, in the country. Look at the last 2 or 3 seasons. Rovers were taking near on 500 to away games in the bottom league, which isnt bad to be fair. And we have, more often than not either sold out and asked for more, or nearly sold out our allocation for away games. Look at the amount of people we took to Blackpool. To take nearly 2,000 to a team we played only 6 months earlier, in horrible weatther is great commitment.

[Red_Mat]

All this on just a penalty save...........

Hmm. It's an interesting post, and I can see exactly what you're saying. However, I think even if Phillips had saved that penalty, I don't think we'd have gone on to win. Brighton were the better team, and probably would have won in extra time and penalties, despite the save.

But still, I get what you're saying; if we had won that match - and it's possible that the save may have got us playing - and we went up, I think it would have taken a massive rebuild to stay up. Let's not forget that even before that match, a number of key players, such as Lee Peacock, Aaron Brown and Liam Rosenior had already agreed to move elsewhere and the chance are there would have been others going too. Danny Coles most likely to have been one of them.

You then look at the others we were left with then; Christian Roberts, Marc Goodfellow, Steve Phillips, Tommy Doherty, Joe Burnell, etc, and they're only good enough for League One at a push, not the Championship. We would have come straight back down, and possibly even have turned into a yo-yo club without any real grounding.

I often think, too, what would have had happened if DW had been given an extra year, but I still don't think he'd have taken us up, for that same reason. Again, he would have had to build from scratch. And although he proved he was capable of building a squad from nothing, it would have taken longer than a year.

I agree that GJ is a better manager than DW, but let's also not forget the club was in a far worse state seven years ago when DW took over, than when GJ got here. We had just been relegated, blown millions of pounds, were massively more in debt than we are now, the academy was far less developed than it is now and the players it was producing were nowhere near as good, and we'd just had Pulis as a manager!

Ok, GJ took over from Tins when we were close to relegation, but the club as a whole was in a much healthier state. He was also able to bring in almost anybody he wanted to.

The answer, I think, is that by Phillips not saving that penalty and us losing that match, it probably helped us get stronger and although it's taken a while to get here, we're probably better off for it.

As someone else pointed out, that decade of anguish, hurt and frustration had been welling up and was let out - finally - on that day in May against Rotherham.

[Big Stan Hibbert]

The only question in my mind is... where would city be now if I'd have decided to sign for them?

I need to get out more.

[surreyred]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back..........

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save...........

The fact that we had to suffer nine defeats in a row and get rid of a number of players before GJ could get a team with any spirit and fight about it shows that there was a less than professional mentality within the club. This did not just occur in TINNIONS short reign. If we had gone up under DW i am sure we would have come straight back down and been in shed loads more debt.

A lot of people do not realise just how much GJ has changed the whole mentality and structure of the club. We now have a frame work that can take us into the future, keep us in the Chamionship, and maybe even more.....we just have to do it.

[scottwbcfc]

Can see it now on the sags forum,

Where would we be now if "King" Phillips hadent of saved that penalty against us?....

[Maltshoveller]

I know one thing for certain, if Newcastle had two team who flirted around the 2nd/3rd divisions they both only be pulling in around 8-10k a week and people would be saying "but it's not really a football city".

They were only getting 9k before keegan took over

and thats with just one team!!

Newcastle utd fans are the most over rated in the country.

Loyal my ass

[jimmy ateyo]

I reckon we would have come straight back down and DW got the sack with Johnson coming in with Millen as assistant and Tinnion as a coach, then consolidated and got promotion last season after a player clear out.

Exactly where we are now, better equipped all round to handle the Championship.

I reckon someone would of put the rebound in

We would lose 1-0 - Wilson would go, a city hero with no management experience would take over

he'd Look out of his depth, get tonked at swansea, finish about 9th, have a shaky start to the next season and get sacked

We would then appoint GJ who would steady the ship and get us promoted the following year

We would then sigh king magic daps and after being on telly more times than eastenders be top of the championship and in our highest position for 27 years.

Just imagine it

Meanwhile, baby flapper would of moved on to bigger things playing for that bunch of pikeys up the road where they still have terracing and a rugby team

[054123]

They were only getting 9k before keegan took over

and thats with just one team!!

Newcastle utd fans are the most over rated in the country.

Loyal my ass

Couldn't agree more.

I hate Newcastle and thier 'fans' are annoying as well.

Worst statement in football is the perenial "The people of Newcastle deserve some success"

Deserve bollox!!! Them and Blackburn were the first 'money' teams who bought success, only Blackburn still have their feet on the groumd.

[zookeeper]

Couldn't agree more.

I hate Newcastle and thier 'fans' are annoying as well.

Worst statement in football is the perenial "The people of Newcastle deserve some success"

Deserve bollox!!! Them and Blackburn were the first 'money' teams who bought success, only Blackburn still have their feet on the groumd.

Having been to one or two Newcastle games and living with a couple of Geordies I have grown to "luv it". The atmosphere to the games I went to was superb.

They are great fans at both the football and the rugby. They know how to take the mick out of themselves and others.

There lowest average attendance was 16,000 in 1980-81 and there highest 56,000 in 1947-48 both in the old 2nd division.

Hey but why let the truth get in the way of a good rant!

[havanatopia]

who knows; probably a year ahead of schedule..

what does Philipps care... they go fourth after beating Luton.

[churchill ciderhead]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back..........

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save...........

If City chose the right numbers in the lottery, we could win millions and buy lots of players!

Then again we could chose the correct numbers every week, and we could be kings of the world!

[Guest mesa boogie]

What if Peter Aitken had thought

"No stuff that"

[churchill ciderhead]

What if Peter Aitken had thought

"No stuff that"

Are you a Gashead.

[Denilson]

Everything happens for a reason.

[Luke_Ciderhead]

Seeing how we have no games to talk about, how about trying to use your imagination on this one:

Steve Phillips saved Leon Knights penalty and we went up there other end and scored in the Playoff final a few years back..........

Where would City be now? Where would Danny Wilson be? Steve Phillips probably wouldnt have ended up at the G*s and might still be our number 1. Would Lita still have gone? Tinman might still be a true legend without being tarnished with his managerial record. Would Gary Johnson have taken over from Sven after propelling Yeovil to the Premiership? Would we have gone straight back down? Danny Coles might still be playing regularly and being chased by Prem clubs?

All this on just a penalty save...........

Throughout the dark days of Tinnion and the nine successive defeats, I was so depressed about city that I imagined a parralel universe in which Brighton missed their penalty, and we went on to win in extra time...

We got promoted, Wilson signed Marcus Stewart for the following campaign...Lita, Coles, Doherty, Tinnion, Hill, Wilkshire, Rougier, Murray and a few new signings did the business in the Championship...everything was rosy and we were mixing it with Leeds, West Ham, Sunderland, Norwich etc...

I was convinced during those awful times that IF only we'd beaten Brighton things would have been so much different for Bristol City FC....

Looking back on it though, I'm not sure if that would have been the case. We eventually did sign Marcus Stewart and he flopped...The likes of Coles, and Doherty didnt have professional enough attitudes to compete in the Championship, which theyve proven at QPR and Hull respectively. Something was clearly fundamentally wrong with the football club and we saw the signs of it a few weeks before, with our collapse from top of the table, to missing out on 2nd place on the final day. We werent scoring goals, Wilson wasnt a convincing manager, and I think we would have been found out at Championship level.

Everything happens for a reason, and now flying high at the top end of the Championship, we can well and truly put the demons of that fateful day in Cardiff to rest and finally say = We've come out better for it!!! And things at Bristol City couldnt be better at the moment!!

And to make things even sweeter, Brighton are now in League 1, and Leon Knight is in League 2!!

I'm so happy to be a City fan right now!!

[dezgimed]

Everything happens for a reason.

Utter nonsense.

[philgas1]

Are you a Gashead.

yep he is..me too....

[rayer]

As for 'Where would we be now', I will tell you where I would be, where I am now !!! sat here on my tod at work at this stupid hour waiting waiting for an account to check they have full connectivity to their new network after I have configured it... so sod it, I'm going for another coffee (Overtime rates do make up for it though)