Will He Leave Out Lee?

[headhunter]

I was there to witness our being beaten by what was the better team on the night in my opinion.

This is my first post since the season began and until last night I was happy to be proved wrong on my assessment that we would struggle at this level. Every game so far has been exciting as the "best games" from the past few seasons even if last night was a disappointment.

But back to the point of the post. Firstly I think Bristol Boy got it spot on with his ratings and then his team selection suggestion for the next game.

I felt sorry for Elliott when he was subbed - perhaps he was struggling after being knocked out just before half time but it was his least effective game of his otherwise hugely impressive start to his career at AG. On the other hand perhaps he was just tired out because I feel he has carried the midfield in just about every game. We are simply too lightweight in this area. Wilson or Murray are limited and for me McIndoe flatters to decieve. Lee Johnson is just not strong enough and [like Trundle] the pace of the game seems to much for him.

I did my own version of "PlayerCam" on Johnson last night and saw him robbed of posseession and fail to track back at pace on more than one occassion. There were no Holywood passess that came off and the only times he looked good were with one or two flicks and the occasional triangular passing movement when taking the ball off the back four.

So over to you - will he drop the Boy, does he deserve to be dropped?

[robins72]

There isnt anyone to replace him at the moment whos attacking. The only options we have available are Noble(whos lacking match fitness) or moving Orr into a more attacking rold. Cant see either happening for the next game. Maybe a loan signing would suffice?

[Hydey]

Noble is Fit

[Big Nose]

There is a perfectly fit and up-for-it Cole Skuse, I'd like to see him given a go with Elliott.

Two 'holding' type players might limit our attacking options to down-the-wing, but, we do have wingers -and maybe Trundle can drop into the hole to give anothe r option?

[captainstranded]

Lets all get on the drop Lj again, thankgod he doesnt read this dribble on here!!, BB it is a well known fact that you are a LJ hater, well except the end of last season when you said he had proved you wrong, and guess what he will again, what i saw last night he was always wanting the ball, didnt make any silly passes, and IMHO was one of a few players that looked at this level, of course hes lightweight, now that is GJs fault, and he isnt going to make crunching tackles, thats what Elliot is in for, he isnt at his best but that is still alot better than the BIG signings that we have made.This clamer for Noble, is correct but, he is not a centre mid, never will be, he is best behind the front 2, with a midfield of LJ, ME, and Skuse, that IMHO is our best formation, as for no service from the middle, you have to have someone running into space to make those passes and LT isnt doing that, he tries to beat everyone in front of him instead of laying off the ball.

I have said before it has nothing to do with him being GJs son, its because he rates him as a player and trusts him, he isnt at his best but that will come, the pace of the game in this league is catching a few out, so lets get behind them as a team, because as a team they have done fine so far.

[robins72]

Lets all get on the drop Lj again, thankgod he doesnt read this dribble on here!!, BB it is a well known fact that you are a LJ hater, well except the end of last season when you said he had proved you wrong, and guess what he will again, what i saw last night he was always wanting the ball, didnt make any silly passes, and IMHO was one of a few players that looked at this level, of course hes lightweight, now that is GJs fault, and he isnt going to make crunching tackles, thats what Elliot is in for, he isnt at his best but that is still alot better than the BIG signings that we have made.This clamer for Noble, is correct but, he is not a centre mid, never will be, he is best behind the front 2, with a midfield of LJ, ME, and Skuse, that IMHO is our best formation, as for no service from the middle, you have to have someone running into space to make those passes and LT isnt doing that, he tries to beat everyone in front of him instead of laying off the ball.

I have said before it has nothing to do with him being GJs son, its because he rates him as a player and trusts him, he isnt at his best but that will come, the pace of the game in this league is catching a few out, so lets get behind them as a team, because as a team they have done fine so far.

LJ gets alot of stick yes and I'm sure it happens off the field as well because he has to impress his dad. He however has not been up to scratch this season and I'm sure he would admit hes been at fault for losing the ball in the middle of the park at times this season. He does need competition however, and at the moment he doesnt as Russell is out on loan, and Noble isnt match fit. Skuse is a defensive midfielder so would be more suited to a 3-5-2. Were all getting behind the team but something has to change as service through the middle and on the flanks isnt getting to our strikers. If we keep things as they are we will lose more games.

[Red_Mat]

Noble is Fit

There's a difference between being 'fit' and 'match fit', and that's something Noble probably isn't yet. He's played very little football in the last 4 months.

I would love to see Noble in the midfield and, personally, think he would link up brilliantly with Trundle. However, he's possibly not ready to start. Perhaps a place on the subs bench on Saturday is a possibility?

I did think LJ would come into his own slightly more in this division, with more time and space on the ball. Instead, it's just highlighted his lack of pace and shown his work-rate is not really high enough. He also can't really tackle or head, so all of that is left to Marv. So what does he do?! He can pass and shoot, but at the moment, none of this is coming off.

In a way, it's a shame that Alex Russell's out on loan, because I think he's a consistent performer who could easily come in and do a job in midfield. His passing and shooting perhaps isn't as good as LJ's, but he has other qualities, such as tackling and heading, which LJ doesn't really offer.

Other options are thin on the ground. Obviously Skuse is a defensive midfielder and is Marvin's replacement. Keogh would have played there last year, but he's burnt his bridges. Bradley is not a midfielder - you only have to look at his passing out of defence. And Frankie Artus isn't ready yet. Jevons, perhaps...?!

Therefore if we want change, it's only going to happen when Noble is ready. He's the only one that offers the attacking threat which we're missing from midfield. The thing to remember about Noble is that his defending, tackling and tracking back are as bad as, or maybe worse, than LJ - and I'm a big Noble fan. It's on the attacking side where we'll see the improvement.

[captainstranded]

I agree with you on most things, i think Noble is fit and will play on saturday, behind the front 2, with Lj, Ms behind him, i think that will help, but DN will only last the hr at the most, i think the problem lies up front with LT not find any form ex Scunny, he is the one that needs a break really but we havnt got anyone that can turn a game like he can, so i would stick with him.

[City Scout]

From my lofty view at the back of the stand last night, I have to say I thought Lee Johnson looked worn out after just 10 mins. A very tired performance & certainly seemed to need a rest for a game or 2 maybe.

Replacement wise, Skuse or Noble could come in. I wouldnt have a problem with either, but I expect the Johnson / Elliott partnership to continue until the international break.

Mind you at least Johnson stayed in his correct position for the game which is more than I can say for our left wing friend McIndoe.

He spent more time in the middle or drifting away from the wing leaving us with no outlet for most of the game.

If it was tactics then I hope we don't try them again Saturday v Sheff Utd...

[Bristol Boy]

There isnt anyone to replace him at the moment whos attacking. The only options we have available are Noble(whos lacking match fitness) or moving Orr into a more attacking rold. Cant see either happening for the next game. Maybe a loan signing would suffice?

Noble is fit and the only way he'll get "up to speed" is to play.

i think to start with youve got to think of him as lee the player and not lee the managers son.

100% correct and that's how I've always rated him.

you can say its an advantage for him to have the manager be his dad, but at the same time he has to work 2 maybe 3 times as hard as everyone else to earn himself a place in the team, because hes the first up for criticism.

On the whole, I think City Fans have been very good with Lee and any criticsm for signing Lee or anyone else should be directed at The Manager.

i'm not his biggest fan by any means really. hes too lightweight, doesnt really keep up with the pace and does these flicks and dinks in the middle of the park which are just annoying. although i think its worth mentioning you cant fault his passion or commitment, and hes got a wicked shot on him.

Not a bad assessment.My other issue is that he can finish, play one two's, get in the box and deliver an excellent set piece.Trouble is, this season he's struggling on all counts and when your strengths aren't doing it for you then your weaknesses are more apparent.

but the sooner noble is back and fit the better. people have mentioned russell and skuse, but i think noble is first in line.

Agree

skuse is a cracking player, but to similar to marv. russell is the same as lee johnson in my opinion.

Why not play all three?

There is a perfectly fit and up-for-it Cole Skuse, I'd like to see him given a go with Elliott.

Two 'holding' type players might limit our attacking options to down-the-wing, but, we do have wingers -and maybe Trundle can drop into the hole to give anothe r option?

Trundle doesn't have the movement to play in the hole, IMHO and two if Skuse came in he could hold and Elliott could get forward more.As I've said, I'd play three central midfielders in Skuse, Noble & Elliott.

Lets all get on the drop Lj again, thankgod he doesnt read this dribble on here!!,

I think you mean "drivel" and he does

BB it is a well known fact that you are a LJ hater,

It isn't a fact, it, unfortuneatly is your opinion and also nonsense.

well except the end of last season when you said he had proved you wrong,

When was that? My opinion of LJ hasn't changed this season or last and I've frequently noted his strengths & weaknesses.It's not about being twelve years old and hating this and hating that, it's about judging players on merit on a game by game basis-Irrespective of things like fee or family relationship.Things like form, tactics and team selection also have a bearing

and guess what he will again, what i saw last night he was always wanting the ball, didnt make any silly passes, and IMHO was one of a few players that looked at this level,

You seem to in a minority of one in holding that opinion and view of last nights game.

of course hes lightweight, now that is GJs fault, and he isnt going to make crunching tackles, thats what Elliot is in for, he isnt at his best but that is still alot better than the BIG signings that we have made.

One player tackling in midfield won't do it and we're back to selection again.

This clamer for Noble, is correct but, he is not a centre mid, never will be,

Where were you when he was playing there with Russell or Skuse and we were playing terrific stuff at the end of the season before last?That's where he was signed to play, by GJ long before we were dwn to one fit striker and GJ made a switch to 4-4-1-1.

he is best behind the front 2, with a midfield of LJ, ME, and Skuse,

So the formation would be 4-3-1-2?

that IMHO is our best formation, as for no service from the middle, you have to have someone running into space to make those passes and LT isnt doing that, he tries to beat everyone in front of him instead of laying off the ball.

If you're expecting LT to make runs in behind, you'll wait a very long time-Don't you think LJ should be making runs past the ball?

I have said before it has nothing to do with him being GJs son, its because he rates him as a player and trusts him, he isnt at his best but that will come,

Question is when and will it do the lad any good if he is out of form and doesn't get a rest?

the pace of the game in this league is catching a few out, so lets get behind them as a team, because as a team they have done fine so far.

The last three games haven't been great and would you suggest no changes until.........when?

He however has not been up to scratch this season and I'm sure he would admit hes been at fault for losing the ball in the middle of the park at times this season. Were all getting behind the team but something has to change as service through the middle and on the flanks isnt getting to our strikers. If we keep things as they are we will lose more games.

Correct

[Big Nose]

if Skuse came in he could hold and Elliott could get forward more./b]

Fair play, lets try that then.

[downendcity]

LJ gets alot of stick yes and I'm sure it happens off the field as well because he has to impress his dad. He however has not been up to scratch this season and I'm sure he would admit hes been at fault for losing the ball in the middle of the park at times this season. He does need competition however, and at the moment he doesnt as Russell is out on loan, and Noble isnt match fit. Skuse is a defensive midfielder so would be more suited to a 3-5-2. Were all getting behind the team but something has to change as service through the middle and on the flanks isnt getting to our strikers. If we keep things as they are we will lose more games.

Elliott has been playing as a defensive/holding midfielder. might it be worth trying Skuse in the defensive/holding role alongside Elliott, who would then be given more freedom. Elliott has some of Viera's qualities - he's strong,physical, good in the air and pretty quick and gets up and down the pitch- and perhaps we don't see the best of him in a defensive role. With more frreedom he might influence a game more than Lee J is at the moment.

With Sproule and McIndoe out wide we would have a lot of pace from midfield, which we've lacked before, but Elliott and Skuse would give us strength through the middle, which we do lack with Lee J playing there.

[captainstranded]

BB, some of your comments i agree with, just some,

1) I can assure that he doesnt read this forum

2) its Unfortunately!!!

3) You have always not been a big fan of LJ

4) You have always said this forum is about everyone stating an oppinion!!, thats all we are doing including yourself, so we are allowed to disagree with you, and state our own thoughts, there 14k waching City every home game and, how many members write on here!!!, i think its you thats in the minority.

5) I would love to see DN v LJ in a game, LJ would run the legs off DN, now that is a fact.

6) I agree we are not 12, and its an honest point of view that I'm stating.

[Bristol Boy]

BB, some of your comments i agree with, just some,

Good, you're coming along nicely then

1) I can assure that he doesnt read this forum

And I can assure you he does, as does his Dad, his uncle etc, etc

2) its Unfortunately!!!

Thanks, but shouldn't that be a capital "I" and if you're going to start that old nonsense, what the hell were you thinking when you wrote "what i saw last night he was always wanting the ball, didnt make any silly passes, and IMHO was one of a few players that looked at this level,

3) You have always not been a big fan of LJ.

Always not :noexpression:

I'm not a big fan of any player, the Manager, the Chairman etc..........I'm a fan of the club and I rate players for how good they are on a match by match basis with no favourites or enemies.LJ's had no more or less stick than any player, this season or last

4) You have always said this forum is about everyone stating an oppinion!!,

You see, what happens when you start being a it's "opinion"

thats all we are doing including yourself, so we are allowed to disagree with you, and state our own thoughts, there 14k waching City every home game and, how many members write on here!!!, i think its you thats in the minority.

You should read the reply and try not to speak for everyone, just yourself.My reply was to you and if you're going to write about how I "hate" a player, I'll correct you.That's just a childish remark and bears no relation to my opinion.In terms of a minority, I was talking about your views in this thread, not Ashton Gate.

5) I would love to see DN v LJ in a game, LJ would run the legs off DN, now that is a fact.

Well, if we were taking part in the 800 metres or The Egg & Spoon race, then that may be the key consideration however, you appear to be confusing input with output and hard work with good work-The team that runs furthest, fastest, may win a marathon, but not a football match.I never saw someone run more and tackle more than Joe Burnell-Where's he playing now?

6) I agree we are not 12, and its an honest point of view that I'm stating.

Exactly, however, limit your statements to your opinions/point of view, don't invent opinions for me.

[Bristol Boy]

I think creative options are limited. I think lee is struggling, and when his passing game is off course, he is a luxury player, as he is too weak in other areas, and we are seeing that teams are all strong and physical. But who do you play? Noble, who everyone cries out for is terribly unfit. Last season he kept being hauled off after 70 odd minutes because he could not last, so can we think he is anywhere close to full match fitness after injury?

Noble's played 90 minutes for the Resvs on a number of occassions and has been back in training for over a month-He'll only get CCC match fit by playing CCC matches so, unless we loan him to anothe club, why not start him??

Skuse is not as devoid of creative talent as some believe, and is our only realistic option unless Russel gets called back.

So play Skuse & Elliott

I would also like to see JMW back at the end of the month, as he is a different player, and will be up to match fitness, and will suprise a few, and add competition.

Left wing or striker?

Elliot has a good motor, but while that impresses the fans, he also has to learn to hold shape, because when he is on a run, we only have lee J to hold the fort.

And vica versa-look at last nights goals, especially the first one

but I do trust in GJ, and he must have another game plan, because launching long ball to him is not the way to get him scoring or get a return on your money. He clearly has some ball skills, but the end product is not there.

Why do you think we've been doing that for eight games? Do you think GJ has continued it just because we've been scraping results?

My other initial thought, was that if had him in the team, we would play him in front of midfiled (Like Noble last year) where he could get the ball at his feet, and be facing in the right direction.

I think he doesn't have the movement to do what DN does.

As for the other striker, well the world has written off poor Enoch after one poor game, I think he can do better than that, and with the current long ball could have assisted a lot, Byfield is getting fit, and is getting closer.

ES is injured and Byfield's fine in terms of fitness going by last night

He looks like a proper striker, and given service, you would have to say on what we have seen will score. brooks forget until god knows when, shame because his holding ability is so needed at the moment. Jevo, no comment, as he has not played, I have not really rated him, but he has scored vital goals for us, and maybe his game will work better at this level.

Agree about Byfield but the rest is clutching at straws.

So back to your point, will he drop Lee, I do not think so as there are no obvious options.

Lots of options and I hope GJ's brave enough to take them.

[pdgifford64]

Options are there, there are always options. Not wanting to state the obvious but its a case of getting one that works. Despite a decent points tally after 9 games we are still only 6 pts from the bottom 3 and IMO the current formation/starting line up needs to be tweaked. LJ is struggling and he`s not the only one.

Whether we will see any dramatic change for Saturday remains to be seen, i think probably not. But with the break just around the corner i think there`s lots of work to be done on the training ground.

PDG

[MATT BCFC]

The thing is Noble isnt going to get any fitter if hes not playing, the best way to get match fitness is by playing! Yes he can play reserve games but its not the same, slower pace and is playing against poor opposition.

Look at Owen hardly played any football and as soon as he was fit played one reserve game then was striaght in the strating line up.

Think he should atleast be on the bench. He could come on last 30 minutes and give us something different and would get his fitness up.

[Bristol Boy]

Options are there, there are always options. Not wanting to state the obvious but its a case of getting one that works. Despite a decent points tally after 9 games we are still only 6 pts from the bottom 3 and IMO the current formation/starting line up needs to be tweaked. LJ is struggling and he`s not the only one.

Whether we will see any dramatic change for Saturday remains to be seen, i think probably not. But with the break just around the corner i think there`s lots of work to be done on the training ground.

PDG

If you look at our "front five"-They are not in the form of their lives:

• Trundle
• McIndoe
• Sproule
• Johnson
• Byfield

With the exception of Byfield who's just made the starting line up, it wouldn't be a major shock if any or all of those were left out and if we ever get ES&SB fit, I think LT's got a problem.

We've got fresh players in reserve and if I was Jevo I'd be highly cheesed off with not getting a chance when I'm scoring for fun in the resvs and the guys up front aren't-some of them being wingers in the first place!!