Should We Do Something?

[ciderup]

Just read this post by a City fan and thought Yes he / she is right! Can / what can we as fans do?

The Old Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a good stew on this and have come to a conclusion. The unfortunate events in Wolverhampton have got me thinking about police handling of reasonably large away followings.

Now I will be the first to admit that City had a large 'mob' of idiots (would like to use a stronger word starting in W) at Wolves on saturday ,but.....

Why do the real, non-troublesome fans get tarred with the attitude of the vast minority and what should we as fans do about it?

I am not a trouble maker and enjoy meeting fellow fans from around the country,indeed I hoped to meet Quirk on Saturday to buy the bloke a beer and talk about football. I ended up being forced in to a pub I didnt really want to go in and forced to stay there while the w's that allude to follow my team smashed it up! The local constabulary wouldn't let my friends and I leave and preceded (eventually) to treat ALL fans like neanderthal yobs and herd us like cattle to the ground. Full riot gear was their dress of the day and any questions by elderly fans or blokes with their children were met with 'F off or you are nicked'!

Now I am not saying Saturdays game would have passed off totally peacefully nor am I saying that some City (and Wolves fans) were not there to seek trouble but why should reasonable fans be treated like hooligans because of the actions of a few?

After the game the police herded EVERY away fan up a road then held us there for a fair old time during which I had to watch City and Wolves yobs fighting. There were retired people and young children witnessing the horrible events when they didn't need to.

IMHO, the actions of the police on Saturday,both before and after the game ADDED to the problem if not caused the problem and I for one am furious at the way 3000 fans were treated by West Midlands police.

I detest the scum that attach themselves to our various clubs but surely the relative constabularies can find a way to contain these fools and let us genuine fans enjoy each others company without having to force us to be treated like animals and common criminals.

Does anyone have any ideas how us 'real' football fans can enjoy our away days without this kind of treatment because I really don't want to follow my team away any more if i am going to be treated like I was on Saturday. I usually take my son (7) with me but didn't on Saturday, I am so glad I didn't!

City fans have, over the years, had a few issues with West Midlands finest(supposed) but this was a different ball game, it was plain scary!

Someone, give me a positive because I really am thinking of jacking it all in!

__________________

God bless fellow red.

[thankgodfortinnion]

Just read this post by a City fan and thought Yes he / she is right! Can / what can we as fans do?

The Old Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a good stew on this and have come to a conclusion. The unfortunate events in Wolverhampton have got me thinking about police handling of reasonably large away followings.

Now I will be the first to admit that City had a large 'mob' of idiots (would like to use a stronger word starting in W) at Wolves on saturday ,but.....

Why do the real, non-troublesome fans get tarred with the attitude of the vast minority and what should we as fans do about it?

I am not a trouble maker and enjoy meeting fellow fans from around the country,indeed I hoped to meet Quirk on Saturday to buy the bloke a beer and talk about football. I ended up being forced in to a pub I didnt really want to go in and forced to stay there while the w's that allude to follow my team smashed it up! The local constabulary wouldn't let my friends and I leave and preceded (eventually) to treat ALL fans like neanderthal yobs and herd us like cattle to the ground. Full riot gear was their dress of the day and any questions by elderly fans or blokes with their children were met with 'F off or you are nicked'!

Now I am not saying Saturdays game would have passed off totally peacefully nor am I saying that some City (and Wolves fans) were not there to seek trouble but why should reasonable fans be treated like hooligans because of the actions of a few?

After the game the police herded EVERY away fan up a road then held us there for a fair old time during which I had to watch City and Wolves yobs fighting. There were retired people and young children witnessing the horrible events when they didn't need to.

IMHO, the actions of the police on Saturday,both before and after the game ADDED to the problem if not caused the problem and I for one am furious at the way 3000 fans were treated by West Midlands police.

I detest the scum that attach themselves to our various clubs but surely the relative constabularies can find a way to contain these fools and let us genuine fans enjoy each others company without having to force us to be treated like animals and common criminals.

Does anyone have any ideas how us 'real' football fans can enjoy our away days without this kind of treatment because I really don't want to follow my team away any more if i am going to be treated like I was on Saturday. I usually take my son (7) with me but didn't on Saturday, I am so glad I didn't!

City fans have, over the years, had a few issues with West Midlands finest(supposed) but this was a different ball game, it was plain scary!

Someone, give me a positive because I really am thinking of jacking it all in!

__________________

God bless fellow red.

Here Here!

I wasnt there Saturday but can picture the scene from past experiences at Swindon,Plymouth,Bolton,Barnsley,Cardiff...the list is endless

As someone who has mates from other clubs,including the blue few and Cardiff,I know exactly what you mean.

My only piece of advice would be not to give up going as that would mean they(as you describe them W..........s!) have won.

At the end of the day unless the decent fans stay as the majority it will mean we are going back to the 70,s which unfortunatly I can remember.

Maybe we need to stand up to the police as the unfortunates at Walsall did 2 or 3 years ago.

It does seem that if you are even thinking of going to a football ground your human rights become secondary.

I have no suggestions on a solution but keep the faith as our club needs the decent fans like yourself.

[RSG3191]

Sadly all clubs have troublemakers and City are included in that. There is nothing we can do about it I am afraid. Police are there to do a job, and some people don't take kindly to that. Behave yourself, and you have nothing to worry about. Some people go to games, or indeed anywhere looking for a fight.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just read this post by a City fan and thought Yes he / she is right! Can / what can we as fans do?

The Old Bill

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have had a good stew on this and have come to a conclusion. The unfortunate events in Wolverhampton have got me thinking about police handling of reasonably large away followings.

Now I will be the first to admit that City had a large 'mob' of idiots (would like to use a stronger word starting in W) at Wolves on saturday ,but.....

Why do the real, non-troublesome fans get tarred with the attitude of the vast minority and what should we as fans do about it?

I am not a trouble maker and enjoy meeting fellow fans from around the country,indeed I hoped to meet Quirk on Saturday to buy the bloke a beer and talk about football. I ended up being forced in to a pub I didnt really want to go in and forced to stay there while the w's that allude to follow my team smashed it up! The local constabulary wouldn't let my friends and I leave and preceded (eventually) to treat ALL fans like neanderthal yobs and herd us like cattle to the ground. Full riot gear was their dress of the day and any questions by elderly fans or blokes with their children were met with 'F off or you are nicked'!

Now I am not saying Saturdays game would have passed off totally peacefully nor am I saying that some City (and Wolves fans) were not there to seek trouble but why should reasonable fans be treated like hooligans because of the actions of a few?

After the game the police herded EVERY away fan up a road then held us there for a fair old time during which I had to watch City and Wolves yobs fighting. There were retired people and young children witnessing the horrible events when they didn't need to.

IMHO, the actions of the police on Saturday,both before and after the game ADDED to the problem if not caused the problem and I for one am furious at the way 3000 fans were treated by West Midlands police.

I detest the scum that attach themselves to our various clubs but surely the relative constabularies can find a way to contain these fools and let us genuine fans enjoy each others company without having to force us to be treated like animals and common criminals.

Does anyone have any ideas how us 'real' football fans can enjoy our away days without this kind of treatment because I really don't want to follow my team away any more if i am going to be treated like I was on Saturday. I usually take my son (7) with me but didn't on Saturday, I am so glad I didn't!

City fans have, over the years, had a few issues with West Midlands finest(supposed) but this was a different ball game, it was plain scary!

Someone, give me a positive because I really am thinking of jacking it all in!

__________________

God bless fellow red.

Agree with all that you say, but correct me if I am wrong that if you were among the group that was herded into the pub, you must have been on the train. The very early train. My point is, is that if you wish to have a trouble free day, and drink in a pub of your choice and mix with like - minded home fans, then make your own way to the match, and just keep your head down. If you mix with the wrong sort, you will be treated as such.

[Blagdon red]

Agree with all that you say, but correct me if I am wrong that if you were among the group that was herded into the pub, you must have been on the train. The very early train. My point is, is that if you wish to have a trouble free day, and drink in a pub of your choice and mix with like - minded home fans, then make your own way to the match, and just keep your head down. If you mix with the wrong sort, you will be treated as such.

Don't agree. It was not easy to avoid 'the wrong sort' on Saturday. Each fan should be policed on the basis of his or her behaviour, not on that of any idiots in their vicinity. The WM police all too often fail even to try to make any distinction, which is why OAPs, parents and kids end up getting spoken to in an uncivil manner and herded like cattle by that police force. Insitutionalised discrimation against all football fans unfortunately appears to be rife in that force.

[wybmadwity]

• The West Midlands Police have a reputation. A reputation for sometimes acting like hooligans.
• They are well paid for their handling of Football matches.
• If there was no trouble there wouldn't be much need for their presence.
• The more people they can herd together with a few hooligans in their midst, the more they can justify their existence.
• Their actions are likely to incite reactions from people who would otherwise be well behaved.

Some answers may be:

• To boycott matches in the West Midlands.
• Take evidence of the actions you see - witness statementss, video evidence, police ID numbers, hooligans descriptions, and use it.
• Keep away from hooligans.
• Become a hooligan

[bartolona]

We got a coach up Saturday and despite being greeted by WMP in riot gear they were friendly enough and seemed to know what they were doing. After the game we should have been kept back for a while instead of having to wait at the coaches for 1/2 hour, which would of given them the time and man power to clear the area.

[beaverface]

Don't agree. It was not easy to avoid 'the wrong sort' on Saturday. Each fan should be policed on the basis of his or her behaviour, not on that of any idiots in their vicinity. The WM police all too often fail even to try to make any distinction, which is why OAPs, parents and kids end up getting spoken to in an uncivil manner and herded like cattle by that police force. Insitutionalised discrimation against all football fans unfortunately appears to be rife in that force.

I drove up at 11:15am, arrived at Wolves about 12:30. Parked near the Park, removed all my City mini-kits from the car whislt talking to some Wolves fans.

I then wandered around the Town centre wearing my City shirt, had a coffee, made my way back to the ground, walked around the outside the ground, entered the club shop and then went to the away end, stopping to talk to some other Wolves fans and the proceeded to enjoy the match.

After the match I left the away end, walked behind the Billy Wright stand, stopped to talk to some Wolves fans, made my way around the rest of the ground to the park where I was parked. All the time my City shirt was in full view and didn't experience one nasty comment or abuse. Basically I passed proper genuine fans.

There are ways to avoid the police and trouble.

[mercury]

I wasn't there saturday, and unfortunately don't go to many away games, but I do understand the problem. I have many friends who are from the dark side, and we have a good bit of banter about our beloved clubs, I work for a large international company, and so many of my colleagues come from many parts of the country, we talk football, and many of them visit the gate when 'their' team are playing, and it's quite sad , but I have to tell them where it's safe to go, and where it's not safe to go.

On many occassions I have thought it would be nice if they could sit with me for those matches, but know it wouldn't be safe for them to do that. I watched the liverpool v everton game the other week and it was quite amazing to see the camera focusing on supporters of both sides stood next to each other having a laugh with each other as the matched went one way then the other.

I don't have a solution to the problem, maybe it is too big a problem to tackle, but maybe certain sections of grounds could be set apart for fans who wish to sit with 'friends' from other teams. Some sort of 'Fans' membership scheme could be set up, with fans from each club who wish to participate setting up their own fans groups and organising safe venues to meet before matches for drinks and food and travelling to the ground from there to a safe area set aside for them.

Maybe i'm being a bit naive, but i'm sure there are a lots of 'football' supporters out there who would enjoy meeting up with fans from other clubs and discussing issues that affect us all etc. before watching the match.

yOU NEVER KNOW, ONE DAY IT MIGHT HAPPEN

[elhombrecito]

There are ways to avoid the police and trouble.

I disagree.

Before the game I had a similar experience to yourself. I had absolutely no trouble from either police or opposing fans.

However, after the game was a completely different prospect. I was stopped (along with my dad and retired mother) from heading towards our car and herded in a completely different direction towards the station. I was threatened by one particularly aggressive officer for the crime of being too close to him and it took us a good 45 minutes of begging to be allowed to actually head towards our car - and this was only achieved by removing my colours and slipping one-by-one through the cordon.

I suggest you were very lucky in managing to head off in the direction you desired!!

[havanatopia]

Had I been there I would have liked to have arranged a meeting with the chief of West Midlands Police and placed a tape recorder of those foul Police comments on his/her desk. Then simply asked two questions...

1. What form of screening process does your force adopt when interviewing wannabee Police recruits?

2. Is it any wonder that the reputation of Police officers is somewhat tarnished?

Standards of etiquette in society have fallen in all areas and while you can bring forward a multitude of explanations why a gormless half being uses the void he calls a brain to embark on violent acts and verbal abuse any form of similar action or reaction by the Police is inexcusable.

Modern day training methods need to be looked at but perhaps relentless targets and paperwork laid down by this gov't do not help matters.

[havanatopia]

Maybe i'm being a bit naive, but i'm sure there are a lots of 'football' supporters out there who would enjoy meeting up with fans from other clubs and discussing issues that affect us all etc. before watching the match.

yOU NEVER KNOW, ONE DAY IT MIGHT HAPPEN

Why not set up a web site and go for it.

[alandicks]

As you say we have always had problems with the police in this area.My Dad reminded me of us being herded like cattle when he took me to watch an FA Cup 4th round game on 2nd Feb 1974 we lost 1-0 to Wolves.It was so bad a young boy lost his shoe getting on the train home and was literally bundled on the train without having the chance to get his shoe back.

[Seend Red]

I was on the train that got into Wolerhampton at 11.30 and I relised on route that the train was packed with people intent on causing trouble, when the train stopped I waited for all the trouble makers to march out of the station on mass followed by old bill, I hung back in the station, had a piss, grabed a coffee and waited for them to go, this only took about 10 minutes and then the three of us left the station with not a copper in sight, we then mingled in a couple of the locals with no problems.

After the game we knew it was going to be carnage so we decided to leave 2 minutes before the match ended and slipped out past all the Police cordons and strolled back up the road with no problem.

The point I'm making is people need to stop blaming everyone else for the predictament they found yourself in on Saturday, It was so obvious the Police were going to wrap the idiots up at some stage, so marching to the pub with them wasn't the wisest move her part.

Expecting the Police to deal with each individual seperately in that situation is unrealistic and just not going to happen.

[tin]

Agree with all that you say, but correct me if I am wrong that if you were among the group that was herded into the pub, you must have been on the train. The very early train. My point is, is that if you wish to have a trouble free day, and drink in a pub of your choice and mix with like - minded home fans, then make your own way to the match, and just keep your head down. If you mix with the wrong sort, you will be treated as such.

Totally agree with that. It all very easy to brand the hooligan card but, as others have stated on this thread, don't go up on the train if you want to avoid it.

Unfortunately, there are certain games that have more potential than others for flash points and this was one, especially given the fact it was a 3pm kick off and people could make their own way to the ground. Other games like Plymouth is an early kick off and Cardiff will be all coach so this always was going to be high risk.

I went up on the early train, got penned in by the police in that Weatherspoons but managed to evade the escort and enjoy my afternoon mingling and chatting with Wolves fans in other pubs. The WMP are the cause of the trouble IMHO as we went around town with no bother at all after we left them behind.

[beaverface]

I disagree.

Before the game I had a similar experience to yourself. I had absolutely no trouble from either police or opposing fans.

However, after the game was a completely different prospect. I was stopped (along with my dad and retired mother) from heading towards our car and herded in a completely different direction towards the station. I was threatened by one particularly aggressive officer for the crime of being too close to him and it took us a good 45 minutes of begging to be allowed to actually head towards our car - and this was only achieved by removing my colours and slipping one-by-one through the cordon.

I suggest you were very lucky in managing to head off in the direction you desired!!

What can I say?! I'm only saying how it was for me - maybe I was lucky, but it's been the same any other time I've been away!

The only time I've been herded was when I went to Millwall on the train last season and that was only coming out the ground - I managed to get to the ground without an escort (on the train as well)

[elhombrecito]

The point I'm making is people need to stop blaming everyone else for the predictament they found yourself in on Saturday, It was so obvious the Police were going to wrap the idiots up at some stage, so marching to the pub with them wasn't the wisest move her part.

Expecting the Police to deal with each individual seperately in that situation is unrealistic and just not going to happen.

Why should I leave a game early, when I've paid good money for my ticket, just to avoid being treated like cattle?

I understand that it's a difficult job for the police but it doesn't take a genius to realise that I wasn't there to cause trouble when I was accompanied by my parents. When I politely ask a police officer if I can slip through (with my retired mother, let's not forget) to get to the car, I don't expect to be shouted at to "get back".

They have a hard job no doubt, but common sense should prevail in situations like that.

[ciderup]

Agree with all that you say, but correct me if I am wrong that if you were among the group that was herded into the pub, you must have been on the train. The very early train. My point is, is that if you wish to have a trouble free day, and drink in a pub of your choice and mix with like - minded home fans, then make your own way to the match, and just keep your head down. If you mix with the wrong sort, you will be treated as such.

Kingpin, I drove up and arrived about 12-30. As my passengers fancied a beer, we headed in to the centre. I wasn't herded in to the pub atall, I asked a policeman where was safe for away fans and was directed to the Weatherspoons pub. On entering and seeing the people in there, I tried to leave and was stopped from doing so.

I have to say, you are jumping to the same conclusions as, unfortunately, the police did and I resent the accusation!

[ooRya]

Just to play devils advocate.............

What would everyone's reaction be if the police didn't herd everyone together, and young and old were then attacked by these yobs.

Wouldn't we all then be shouting "Where were the police"?

[HIGHRIDGE BCFC]

I wasn't there saturday, and unfortunately don't go to many away games, but I do understand the problem. I have many friends who are from the dark side, and we have a good bit of banter about our beloved clubs, I work for a large international company, and so many of my colleagues come from many parts of the country, we talk football, and many of them visit the gate when 'their' team are playing, and it's quite sad , but I have to tell them where it's safe to go, and where it's not safe to go.

On many occassions I have thought it would be nice if they could sit with me for those matches, but know it wouldn't be safe for them to do that. I watched the liverpool v everton game the other week and it was quite amazing to see the camera focusing on supporters of both sides stood next to each other having a laugh with each other as the matched went one way then the other.

I don't have a solution to the problem, maybe it is too big a problem to tackle, but maybe certain sections of grounds could be set apart for fans who wish to sit with 'friends' from other teams. Some sort of 'Fans' membership scheme could be set up, with fans from each club who wish to participate setting up their own fans groups and organising safe venues to meet before matches for drinks and food and travelling to the ground from there to a safe area set aside for them.

Maybe i'm being a bit naive, but i'm sure there are a lots of 'football' supporters out there who would enjoy meeting up with fans from other clubs and discussing issues that affect us all etc. before watching the match.

yOU NEVER KNOW, ONE DAY IT MIGHT HAPPEN

They have a neutral section at Fulham where home & away fans sit next to each over with no problems.