No Fight, No Passion, No Character, No Leaders

[Nibor]

Step Forward - Stuart Pearce

Yeah he meets all the criteria for England manager.

Passionate, tactically naive, won **** all.

Get him in now.

[old_man_terry]

Yeah he meets all the criteria for England manager.

Passionate, tactically naive, won **** all.

Get him in now.

so who do you suggest? you seem quite happy to critisise everyone else's view, without actually putting forward any meaningful suggestions yourself.

As many other nations have tried and seem to be working well with, you don't need to be the greatest manager with a fantastic record of management to do well at this level, the most important thing I've seen from various managers at International Level, is getting the right people around you, many other young promising coaches have made the adjustment, so why not Pearce?

Dunga, Van Basten, Jurgen - good enough for those countries why not us?

[screech]

Step Forward - Stuart Pearce

Dear God no, Stuart bloody Pearce, we might as well have Jonathon, at least he talks a good game.

[Nibor]

so who do you suggest? you seem quite happy to critisise everyone else's view, without actually putting forward any meaningful suggestions yourself.

As many other nations have tried and seem to be working well with, you don't need to be the greatest manager with a fantastic record of management to do well at this level, the most important thing I've seen from various managers at International Level, is getting the right people around you, many other young promising coaches have made the adjustment, so why not Pearce?

Dunga, Van Basten, Jurgen - good enough for those countries why not us?

Mourinho, Scolari and Hiddink stand out for me. There are also people like Lippi, Capello available. We could try and tempt Wenger now that his mate Dein has left.

I think realistically we should try and get Mourinho and if he doesn't want it then use a caretaker until the Euro 2008 finals are over and some decent managers will be available.

As for comparing Pearce to two of the greatest players of all time... let's take a look:

Klinsmann - A World cup winner who played at the top level in Germany, France, Italy and England under coaches like Trappatoni and Wenger and earned over 100 caps winning countless domestic titles and trophies.

Van Basten - A European Championship winner, triple European player of the year, World player of the year, with a trophy cabinet bigger than most people's houses who played in Italy and Holland under coaches such as Cruyff, Sacchi and Capello.

Pearce - A very good defender in his day who played in England, never played in European competition, represented his country well at one World cup but then failed to qualify for the next one. Won two league cups. Managed Man City without much success. Seems to be doing well with the U21s.

Not in the same league as the other two really. They might not have had much managerial experience but they had masses more experience of playing and winning.

We need someone who understands what it takes to win - Psycho, great England servant that he is, is not that.

[Tunley Legend]

I'm in the minority with Nibor I'm afraid. Last night's shambles has nothing whatsoever to do with players not caring or not trying. Who are you all trying to kid? Do you think that if you went out against an international standard team like Croatia and never tried or never cared you would only get beat 3-2 - that is just complete and utter b0ll0ck$. The players were trying and no doubt the vast majority of them cared. The problem was that the team as a whole was a disorganised rabble playing in a ridiculous "system" dream't up by tactical genius McClaren at the last minute and we also had a few players lacking "bottle" (not to be confused with effort or caring).

The biggest "bottlers" in my opinion were Gerrard and Lampard, top professionals with plenty of experience who effectively went into hiding (I'm sure it was not deliberate) when the likes of Carson and Micah Richards were desperate for some help. We sent out a team containing a mixture of players who "have never been good enough", "are no longer good enough", "will be good enough eventually" and a few who are good enough but had an off night. Not only that but we sent them out playing in an unworkable system. That has nothing to do with commitment, banging down dressing room doors, singing the national anthem louder than the opposition, shouting "c'mon" a few times, breaking players legs in 50/50 tackles or anything else of the sort. It is about having the extra know-how and nouse to get results at the top end of the game.

[old_man_terry]

Mourinho, Scolari and Hiddink stand out for me. There are also people like Lippi, Capello available. We could try and tempt Wenger now that his mate Dein has left.

I think realistically we should try and get Mourinho and if he doesn't want it then use a caretaker until the Euro 2008 finals are over and some decent managers will be available.

problem is those targets are not realistic,

Mourinho, failed at Chelsea in that despite how many Million he spent he didn't bring when big Roman wanted most which was the Champions League,

Scolari, he's very unlikely to even entertain the notion of talking to the FA again after the farce last time, unfortunately I think the media intrusion he suffered last time is enough to put him off being interested again

Hiddink, international record that is possibly one of the best in the world, however only recently signed a new contract with Russia.

Lippi and Capello are more realistic, however Lippi never coached outside of Italy, would he want to at his age now, and Capello has expressed an interest already, however again what is his knowledge of english football? also being the defencesive minded coach that he is, isn't he going to get the same treatment as Sven in that his games could well be boring?

personally don't think Pearce is that unrealistic, not the ideal choice, however I think he is already going to be covering the post for the France game and probably up until around the Euro's.

Personally won't complain at Steve Coppell, very good tactical, played at the top level, been a manager for yearand isn't refusing to rule himself out,

got to be better than the other "so called contender" of Alan bloody shearer

[old_man_terry]

I'm in the minority with Nibor I'm afraid. Last night's shambles has nothing whatsoever to do with players not caring or not trying. Who are you all trying to kid? Do you think that if you went out against an international standard team like Croatia and never tried or never cared you would only get beat 3-2 - that is just complete and utter b0ll0ck$. The players were trying and no doubt the vast majority of them cared. The problem was that the team as a whole was a disorganised rabble playing in a ridiculous "system" dream't up by tactical genius McClaren at the last minute and we also had a few players lacking "bottle" (not to be confused with effort or caring).

The biggest "bottlers" in my opinion were Gerrard and Lampard, top professionals with plenty of experience who effectively went into hiding (I'm sure it was not deliberate) when the likes of Carson and Micah Richards were desperate for some help. We sent out a team containing a mixture of players who "have never been good enough", "are no longer good enough", "will be good enough eventually" and a few who are good enough but had an off night. Not only that but we sent them out playing in an unworkable system. That has nothing to do with commitment, banging down dressing room doors, singing the national anthem louder than the opposition, shouting "c'mon" a few times, breaking players legs in 50/50 tackles or anything else of the sort. It is about having the extra know-how and nouse to get results at the top end of the game.

it was a disorganised rabble, no one is denying that, and the manager has taken the blame for that, but lets be honest, it could (and maybe should) have been more than 2-0 at half time to Croatia, your right though about Gerrard and Lampard, both of them didn't have a clue where they should be playing and went missing, the team no doubt missed alot of key players, taking Terry, Rio, Owen and Rooney is going to cause trouble for any team.

However players like Bridge, Campbell, Cole, Barry, Lampard & Gerrard are all very experienced players who we expected alot better from.

Carson - no doubt has a future for england, but shouldn't have been thrown in - James should have started without doubt, but in fairness, the mistake he made is just one of those things that sometimes happens and can be excused - his time will come again

Bridge - very good player - but basically bottled it last night and got ripped to bits

Sol Campbell - looked past it at International level, alongside a player like Rio or Terry he would have been ok, but alongside a international rookie, BYE BYE SOL

Lescott - good player no doubt and again alongside a player in their prime like Rio or Terry would have been ok, but suffered alongside an ageing campbell, Decent Emergancy Squad cover, but not LONG TERM ENGLAND PLAYER

Richards - fantastic prospect - but good damn did we need Gary Neville for a game like last night

J.Cole - did ok - still best (and probably only option on left wing)

Barry - great player, done well recently but midfield was a mess and he was all over the shop

Gerrard and Lampard - as above, both bottled it, when we needed one or both to grab the game by the scruff of the neck

SWP - not international class, even his dad admited pre-game Beckham should have started.

Crouch - did well, took his goal well but suffered up front.

Subs -

Beckham - despite his age, lack of fitness and playing in a stupid league, the players rose when he was on the pitch and proved he is still the ONLY quality option on the right side of midfield, he may be a one trick pony, but at that trick, HE'S STILL ONE OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD, when Terry is out, he should still be captain.

Defoe & Bent - says it all about the lack of quality english strikers - next after them Andy Johnson - GOD HELP US!

to many players last night just didn't turn up, quite simply, WHERE WAS THE LEADERS, where was the sprirt, last season City got promoted on the back of their never say die attitude, it's something that at the top level we just don't have

[LSN]

I've got so many rants about the england set up, about mcClaren most of all, and the players. So bare with me.

No England Centre of Excellence.... why? I'll tell you why. England players are paid £1500 for every game they play and on top of that, a sum of money for every day they are on England 'leave'. All this, on top of the pay packets they are getting from thier clubs WHILE they are on international duty. It all mounts up, and the big excuse is FUNDING!! ###### stupid! the players don't need that money. They should WANT to play for thier country, if they don't, then tell them where to go!

McClaren, the dumbest england coach I have ever known. Friendlies, they are for experimentation, comaradory (spl?), players getting to know each other etc etc etc so why didn't he do that?! last friday night, did they play with a 4-5-1 formation at all that game? ok, so Owen went off injured, but surely there was enough time for McClaren to think 'better try Crouch upfront on his own'. Then he would see if a 4-5-1 formation would work. HE TRIED AN UN-TRIED FORMATION IN A CRUCIAL QUALIFYING GAME!! ########!!

Lampard and Gerrard. They want to do the same job! it doesn't work with them together! How many times has he had the chance to find that out? I thought that he did when he put Barry alongside Gerrard. The team looked balanced and the back 4 protected. So he plays Lampard and Gerrard alongside Barry, again, an un-tried combination. Crouch upfront all on his own. That was destined to fail. McClaren should of asked himself 'does benetiez play crouch upfront on his own?' no, McClaren, because he has no pace and is not strong enough to hold off 2 central defenders! (ala Drogba, or shearer back in the day)

So we have a beanpole of a striker on the pitch wanting service, and McClaren opts to have one of the worlds best passers of the ball, best long ball specialists and the most experienced England player, aswell as being a 'big match' player, on the f'in bench!!! Where is the sense in that??!!

The Goalie, Carson. He is a good goalkeeper. He wouldn't be Villas number 1 if he wasn't.... but at 22, his first competetive game England match, and such an important one at that, thrown in there and told to try and command a back 4 that have never played together before... does that sound smart? What is wrong with the very experienced James? I would rather of had Robinson in goal than a rookie 22 year old!

He even took Joe Cole off the pitch! why? Lampard was sooooo slow in possesion, he was doing nothing, as usual. Atleast when Joe Cole gets the ball, you are anticipating something to happen. Lampard was not going to win the game, Joe Cole is more of a likely player to do just that.

You can see that it mattered to Gerrard though. BUT he bottled his concentration. passes amiss, tackles missed... shit game from one of our best players. I say that he tried, but on the last goal, he could see even before the ball was passed that the eventual goalscorer was free, he had loads of time to reognise that he was the threat. No-one can say it was a lucky goal, technically it was superb, low and to the far post, but 1st of all he should of been closed down (or shouldn't of even got the pass in the 1st place if gerrard was switched on) and 2nd, late reactions from Carson.

There was also a time when Gerrards man was running into a position that could have been a 1 on 1 situation for the croats, he didn't sprint back, he almost gave up! that was our captain!

I don't care wht any of them players say in post match interviews... none of them tried hard enough. None of them seemed to care, and it looked as though they thought they had a right to not have to try to get in the finals.

Crouch and Beckham, you can suggest, were the only 2 that looked like they were putting the effort in for the whole game.

I'm completly ###### off. I just don't think that the players could be helped with such an incompetant manager like McClaren. The roles of most of the players out there last night were not the roles they play week in week out with their clubs. Crouch is not a lone striker Joe Cole is not a left footed player, let alone a left winger... neither of the 3 central midfielders play in a 3 man midfield for thier clubs, LAMPARD AND GERRARD IN THE SAME TEAM DOES NOT WORK!!! is Bridge chelseas 1st choice left back? what is wrong with Chorey of Reading? he played well in those few games he had not so long ago for england.

A cap on foreigners in the prem? I think we should be looking at it. Afterall, our number 1 priority is to win competitions... and if our 'golden era' of players can't even qualify, then something is wrong.

RANT OVER!!!!!!

[fct]

The problem England has in international football isn't merely one cause, there are many. Firstly the perception that because English players are paid oodles of money they must be good is a misconception. The fact is for value for money they aren't worth what they are paid. However, they are paid silly money and that's the end of it. If clubs are willing to pay these substandard players that amount, no amount of international failings is going to change that.

Next. In the case of Lampard and certain other players, the problem is this: at his club Lampard is surrounded by class foreign players and therefore shines in the borrowed light they shed. However, take them away and put Lampard into England's midfield where he has the responsibility of creating chances and scoring, he fails because he's shown up to be the distinctly average player he is. And if anyone argues he's a great player, great players do not go missing from view in 3 consecutive years at international level. He was appalling at the 2006 world cup and has got worse with every England match since. Tellingly, in the matches he missed England played better. I hope the next manager has the guts to permanently drop this overpaid overrated player.

Third. The lack of basic ball control skills, passing skills and intelligence in England teams over the past 40 years has seemingly been missed by the majority of those who bafflingly think England have a chance of winning a tournament. I've watched every England campaign since 1970 and at no time have England looked capable of winning a tournament, except perhaps in 1990. English players cannot match the basic skills teams require at international level and until things fundamentally change in this country, they never will. If anyone argues this point, then please answer why England have failed in 1970, 72, 74, 76, 78, 80, 82, 84, 86, 88, 90, 92, 94, 96, 98, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006 and 2008? Bad luck? Bad managers? What manager could possibly make a silk purse out of the sow's ears we have for players?

Next. Mental strength. Teams need this to go all the way. Germany has it in abundance, and okay maybe their teams haven't been the best in the world at all times since 1966 but by heck they get to the finals more time than England do, and that's because they believe they can and prove it. What is the proof that England bottle it up above? Well, the most telling way I can prove that is the penalty shootout, where mental strength is perfectly demonstrated. England have failed on penalties in 1990, 1996, 1998 and 2004. That to me confirms they haven't got the mindset to succeed. The other pointer in this is the recent habit of sitting back once they get to a point they need to go through, only to allow the opposition to come at them and snatch victory, as Croatia did last night. Why England sat back once they had fought back baffles me; I've noticed this particularly under Erickson and McLaren. Once England get to a winning point they sit back. I'd have them go for the throat and stamp the opposition into the mud.

Bluntly speaking, I don't think it makes any difference who gets appointed manager. We haven't got the players to do it, both in physical and psychological ways, and they're far more interested in picking up their fat salaries and playing alongside the vast horde of foreign mercenaries at their clubs because it means they don't have to play alongside 10 other donkeys.

End of rant. That feels better. Roll on England's next win against Montenegro's Girl Guides 2nd XI.

[Nibor]

problem is those targets are not realistic,

Mourinho, failed at Chelsea in that despite how many Million he spent he didn't bring when big Roman wanted most which was the Champions League,

Scolari, he's very unlikely to even entertain the notion of talking to the FA again after the farce last time, unfortunately I think the media intrusion he suffered last time is enough to put him off being interested again

Hiddink, international record that is possibly one of the best in the world, however only recently signed a new contract with Russia.

Lippi and Capello are more realistic, however Lippi never coached outside of Italy, would he want to at his age now, and Capello has expressed an interest already, however again what is his knowledge of english football? also being the defencesive minded coach that he is, isn't he going to get the same treatment as Sven in that his games could well be boring?

personally don't think Pearce is that unrealistic, not the ideal choice, however I think he is already going to be covering the post for the France game and probably up until around the Euro's.

Personally won't complain at Steve Coppell, very good tactical, played at the top level, been a manager for yearand isn't refusing to rule himself out,

got to be better than the other "so called contender" of Alan bloody shearer

The England manager's job is still one of the most desirable in the world because whoever succeeds at it will go down in history.

Mourinho didn't fail at Chelsea, far from it. He just fell out with the owner who frankly is an idiot who paid £32m for his mate and then got upset he didn't make the team when he wasn't good enough. He won two titles, two league cups, and an FA cup in 3 years and has never in his career lost at home in the league. His friends seem to be ruling him out but there's no harm in waving £5m a year at him and finding out.

Scolari was very keen on the job last time but had to make his excuses because Barwick leaked the interest before we were due to compete against Portugal in the World Cup. Disgraceful behaviour, he even went as far as to repeat verbatim the salary negotiations to a BBC journo. However I think Scolari will still be interested this time.

Hiddink's under contract but Russia or England isn't a tough choice for a Dutchman IMO.

Lippi has won the world cup, that speaks for itself. He's also won 3 or 4 European cups (1 of each I think). Coached in Italy exclusively yes, which isn't ideal, but the teams he's managed have done well on their travels.

Capello was considered defensive by Real Madrid, but let's face it Real were playing like a Keegan side before he came and they needed to be more organised. He won them the title.

I'm not overly keen on either Italian because of the match fixing scandal but their credentials are there and sadly there is no English coach who is even within a million miles of any of those people.

We should be looking at who is most likely to be able to turn us into winners and help us fix the endemic problems in the English game, and I don't believe that someone who's never actually won anything of note can do it.

[dezgimed]

One thing about England since Euro2004..

They cant pass and move, and their technical play stinks.

Cant remember them playing one touch football with through balls for years.

[bucksred]

Every player looked like they cared to me, but I suppose because it's England the reason we're out will always have to be that we don't have enough passion.

Bullshit.

Passion wasn't lacking it just didn't win the game because, shock horror, a better game plan organised by a superior manager for a settled side with experience did.

I don't think it is Nibor. Those players last night, bar Crouch appeared to be utterly apathetic to the impending disaster. To me as an observer, they did not appear to give a toss, or at best didnt inject any great oomph into the game. Beckham did a good job when he came on, but many of the others had poor games compared to their club sides efforts

McClaren couldnt get his plans or anything across to any of the squad, because he aint ever going to get their respect. these guys already have it all. few of them have any idea what football is like at the lower level.

They are like rock bands/stars who's music loses the edge, when they have reached a comfortable life, where money is no object.

Besides they are treated with excessive kid gloves by the clubs, and only the really strong managers (Ferguson, Morinhoo hoo, Wenger, Moyes, funnily enough, none of those guys are English) can ever acheive that respect. Club under performs, get rid of the manager, the players stop on, and it begins again.

Slaven Bilic's side were better prepared, better organized, and he did out think McClaren, but fact is, England has a nasty habit of under performing when the chips are down.

Quite how you solve it, is a vexed question

[fct]

The England manager's job is still one of the most desirable in the world because whoever succeeds at it will go down in history.

Mourinho didn't fail at Chelsea, far from it. He just fell out with the owner who frankly is an idiot who paid £32m for his mate and then got upset he didn't make the team when he wasn't good enough. He won two titles, two league cups, and an FA cup in 3 years and has never in his career lost at home in the league. His friends seem to be ruling him out but there's no harm in waving £5m a year at him and finding out.

Scolari was very keen on the job last time but had to make his excuses because Barwick leaked the interest before we were due to compete against Portugal in the World Cup. Disgraceful behaviour, he even went as far as to repeat verbatim the salary negotiations to a BBC journo. However I think Scolari will still be interested this time.

Hiddink's under contract but Russia or England isn't a tough choice for a Dutchman IMO.

Lippi has won the world cup, that speaks for itself. He's also won 3 or 4 European cups (1 of each I think). Coached in Italy exclusively yes, which isn't ideal, but the teams he's managed have done well on their travels.

Capello was considered defensive by Real Madrid, but let's face it Real were playing like a Keegan side before he came and they needed to be more organised. He won them the title.

I'm not overly keen on either Italian because of the match fixing scandal but their credentials are there and sadly there is no English coach who is even within a million miles of any of those people.

We should be looking at who is most likely to be able to turn us into winners and help us fix the endemic problems in the English game, and I don't believe that someone who's never actually won anything of note can do it.

But it doesn't make any difference to who manages England players, they simply cannot win anything nor look like they are capable. We could have God managing England and his players would still fail. We could replace a manager every season and select a man who wins everything at domestic or international level with anyone else, but with England the bottom line is THEY CANNOT WIN A TOURNAMENT.

[Portland Bill]

Sorry but you're talking bull. Sounds like you've been listening to Croatia managers post-match press conference.

We should have p1ssed all over the group, everyone knows it. It was one of the easiest in the whole competition.

We lost one qualifier under Sven in 3 campaigns.

The arrogance of what you have written actually sums everything up. You still don't actually understand that Croatia and Russia are top footballing nations.

You keep believing, reality will kick in for you one day.

[Portland Bill]

We came third because our we had the better of results against Isreal, 3rd place is based on our results against them, not on goal difference.

I stand corrected, but it just goes to show that the so called "easy group" that some on here go on about is based on peoples thoughts rather than the reality that sides like Isreal are about on a par with us these days.

[Portland Bill]

But it doesn't make any difference to who manages England players, they simply cannot win anything nor look like they are capable. We could have God managing England and his players would still fail. We could replace a manager every season and select a man who wins everything at domestic or international level with anyone else, but with England the bottom line is THEY CANNOT WIN A TOURNAMENT.

Spot on, we have a team with no technical ability, you have to keep the ball to win international games and we are incapable of doing this.

Using some peoples theory on here, Murinho/Hiddink etc takes over as City boss and we win the premier league in two seasons time!!!! it just does not work like that, you have to have the players and Englands are just not good enough.

Gerrard may be a good player on a wet night at Anfield but when up against top class international midfielders he just cant cut it. Same with the likes of Lampard, they are carried through there club games by there top class foreign team mates and when they have to do it on there own for there country.....well the facts speak for themselves.

[bh_red]

The arrogance of what you have written actually sums everything up. You still don't actually understand that Croatia and Russia are top footballing nations.

You keep believing, reality will kick in for you one day.

totally agree, when the draw too place, it didn't look a easy group at all, but felt we would get through it, then Hiddick took over at Russia and it looked even harder.

Too many people (players included) thought this was an easy group, it was never going to be straight forward, and it proved not to be, personally I don't see too much disrespect in losing away to Russia or Croatia, what is unacceptable though is drawing at home to a team like Macedonia.

[bh_red]

The England manager's job is still one of the most desirable in the world because whoever succeeds at it will go down in history.

Mourinho didn't fail at Chelsea, far from it. He just fell out with the owner who frankly is an idiot who paid £32m for his mate and then got upset he didn't make the team when he wasn't good enough. He won two titles, two league cups, and an FA cup in 3 years and has never in his career lost at home in the league. His friends seem to be ruling him out but there's no harm in waving £5m a year at him and finding out.

Scolari was very keen on the job last time but had to make his excuses because Barwick leaked the interest before we were due to compete against Portugal in the World Cup. Disgraceful behaviour, he even went as far as to repeat verbatim the salary negotiations to a BBC journo. However I think Scolari will still be interested this time.

Hiddink's under contract but Russia or England isn't a tough choice for a Dutchman IMO.

Lippi has won the world cup, that speaks for itself. He's also won 3 or 4 European cups (1 of each I think). Coached in Italy exclusively yes, which isn't ideal, but the teams he's managed have done well on their travels.

Capello was considered defensive by Real Madrid, but let's face it Real were playing like a Keegan side before he came and they needed to be more organised. He won them the title.

I'm not overly keen on either Italian because of the match fixing scandal but their credentials are there and sadly there is no English coach who is even within a million miles of any of those people.

We should be looking at who is most likely to be able to turn us into winners and help us fix the endemic problems in the English game, and I don't believe that someone who's never actually won anything of note can do it.

Personally I don't beleive it is one of the most desireable jobs in world football, basically because of all the off-field baggage that comes with the role, something that Big Phil found before he even accepted the job. The england job has ruined the career's of many a football manager in recent years, Venebles, Taylor, Hoddle, Keegan, Sven - all have gone down hill in terms of the jobs they have got after England as the job has ruined their repuatations and left them tarnished (although very rich!)

Hiddick is under contract with Russia having just signed a new one, Russia or England - He will stay with Russia in a heartbeat, the FA tried to get him before but he had already agreed to take over in Russia and stuck by his word.

Big Phil and Jose won't be interestede in the slightest in the job, Jose can get any job he wants almost in world football and won't be interested in England, he'll probably hold fire for a Barca/Real Madrid or maybe one of the milan clubs.

[Nibor]

But it doesn't make any difference to who manages England players, they simply cannot win anything nor look like they are capable. We could have God managing England and his players would still fail. We could replace a manager every season and select a man who wins everything at domestic or international level with anyone else, but with England the bottom line is THEY CANNOT WIN A TOURNAMENT.

Well that's simply not true, the manager makes a huge difference as we can see by the results we got under McClaren.

After all, all these people who now seem to be whining about passion were the same ones who blamed Sven for us not beating Portugal in the last world cup - so it must be down to the manager.

[fct]

Well that's simply not true, the manager makes a huge difference as we can see by the results we got under McClaren.

After all, all these people who now seem to be whining about passion were the same ones who blamed Sven for us not beating Portugal in the last world cup - so it must be down to the manager.

Nibor, if a manager made any difference to England then we'd've won something since 1966. Look at the successful managers who've taken the job, men who have had success in club football. Collectively for England what have they won? Nothing. How much longer in time has got to pass before even you come to the inevitable conclusion that English players do not have the motivation, skill, application and know-how, even under great club managers, to win anything? Its forty-one years now. How long are you going to give it until you admit maybe the players are the common factor here in failure, not the plethora of managers? Fifty years? Sixty? A hundred (OK we'll all be dead by then but hey, there'll still be people saying let's change the manager and we'll win the world cup next time out).

Perhaps its down to people actually believing media hype?

[Nibor]

Nibor, if a manager made any difference to England then we'd've won something since 1966. Look at the successful managers who've taken the job, men who have had success in club football. Collectively for England what have they won? Nothing. How much longer in time has got to pass before even you come to the inevitable conclusion that English players do not have the motivation, skill, application and know-how, even under great club managers, to win anything? Its forty-one years now. How long are you going to give it until you admit maybe the players are the common factor here in failure, not the plethora of managers? Fifty years? Sixty? A hundred (OK we'll all be dead by then but hey, there'll still be people saying let's change the manager and we'll win the world cup next time out).

The players aren't the common factor because we haven't had the same team for the last 40 years...

Look at the differing levels of success different England managers have had and their records _before_ they took over England.

Bobby Robson, great manager, world cup semi finals.

Graham Taylor, mediocre manager, failed to qualify for 94.

Terry Venables, good manager, European semis (at home though).

Sven, good manager, World cup quarter finals.

Steve McClaren, mediocre manager, failed to qualify for Euro 2008.

Of course the manager makes a difference.

I suppose GJ had nothing to do with getting us promoted?! We should have kept Tinnion - it'd have been cheaper.

Perhaps its down to people actually believing media hype?

I think the media play a much bigger part in our continual failure than people realise. They build up a huge hype, and create such pressure that the team fear failure and know they will be vilified for anything other than winning. It is counterproductive.

People in England feel very let down by the national team and that's understandable, it's worse for those that believed the hype in the first place. That doesn't mean that the players are suddenly not good enough. Some of them are amongst the best in the world and would fit in fine at Real or Barca or AC.

Some people lap up whatever they hear others saying or read in the paper and leap on the bandwagon that the players don't care or have enough passion or are suddenly shit, and whilst they do we will continue to ignore the real problems in the game.

I'm not suggesting sacking the manager is the only thing we need to do, far from it. But it did need doing because he wasn't good enough.

There are other more important things that need fixing in the long term I think - those being:

- complete lack of organised integration between professional clubs and grassroots like schools, colleges and amateur sides

- no decent football coaching in schools (it's the national game for christsakes, every PE teacher should be a qualified coach)

- low standards of coaching at grassroots, very few trained coaches in kids football outside school

- less opportunity for English players to play first team football

- loss of playing fields all over urban areas in England

- lack of funding of youth development for professional clubs outside the top tier

- lack of a central England academy

- lack of incentive for clubs outside the top tier to develop youth players due to cherry picking

- idiotically over full match calendar with stupidly timed games for pros due to TV money

All of these things are holding us back, and if you look at how nations that are successful at international football are run they have solved some or most of these.

[Portland Bill]

The players aren't the common factor because we haven't had the same team for the last 40 years...

Look at the differing levels of success different England managers have had and their records _before_ they took over England.

Bobby Robson, great manager, world cup semi finals.

Graham Taylor, mediocre manager, failed to qualify for 94.

Terry Venables, good manager, European semis (at home though).

Sven, good manager, World cup quarter finals.

Steve McClaren, mediocre manager, failed to qualify for Euro 2008.

Of course the manager makes a difference.

I suppose GJ had nothing to do with getting us promoted?! We should have kept Tinnion - it'd have been cheaper.

I think the media play a much bigger part in our continual failure than people realise. They build up a huge hype, and create such pressure that the team fear failure and know they will be vilified for anything other than winning. It is counterproductive.

People in England feel very let down by the national team and that's understandable, it's worse for those that believed the hype in the first place. That doesn't mean that the players are suddenly not good enough. Some of them are amongst the best in the world and would fit in fine at Real or Barca or AC.

Some people lap up whatever they hear others saying or read in the paper and leap on the bandwagon that the players don't care or have enough passion or are suddenly shit, and whilst they do we will continue to ignore the real problems in the game.

I'm not suggesting sacking the manager is the only thing we need to do, far from it. But it did need doing because he wasn't good enough.

There are other more important things that need fixing in the long term I think - those being:

- complete lack of organised integration between professional clubs and grassroots like schools, colleges and amateur sides

- no decent football coaching in schools (it's the national game for christsakes, every PE teacher should be a qualified coach)

- low standards of coaching at grassroots, very few trained coaches in kids football outside school

- less opportunity for English players to play first team football

- loss of playing fields all over urban areas in England

- lack of funding of youth development for professional clubs outside the top tier

- lack of a central England academy

- lack of incentive for clubs outside the top tier to develop youth players due to cherry picking

- idiotically over full match calendar with stupidly timed games for pros due to TV money

All of these things are holding us back, and if you look at how nations that are successful at international football are run they have solved some or most of these.

A manager can make a difference when he can bring in the players HE wants. The difference in being England manager is that you are stuck with the 36 Englishman in the premier league. None of these (with the exception of Rooney on his day) would make a PL eleven.

Any manager in the frame for the job would firstly look what players he would have to pick a side from......and probably say "no thanks".

[Portland Bill]

Well that's simply not true, the manager makes a huge difference as we can see by the results we got under McClaren.

After all, all these people who now seem to be whining about passion were the same ones who blamed Sven for us not beating Portugal in the last world cup - so it must be down to the manager.

A manager can make a difference when he can use the transfer market, an England manager is stuck with the rubbish that the last 2 or managers has had. The way things are going in the PL there may only be 11 englishman in that league to pick from soon. Who in there right mind would want the managers job.

Why not give it to the tabloid headline writers, after all they know everything .

[Nibor]

A manager can make a difference when he can use the transfer market, an England manager is stuck with the rubbish that the last 2 or managers has had. The way things are going in the PL there may only be 11 englishman in that league to pick from soon. Who in there right mind would want the managers job.

Why not give it to the tabloid headline writers, after all they know everything .

Oh come off it Bill, a manager can make far more difference than just transferring players. Look at the difference between Sven's results and Mclaren's with the same set of players. These players ARE good enough, when you look at some of the things they can do at their best that's patently obvious.

It's also unquestionable that they're not producing their best performances anywhere near often enough for England, and there are many possible reasons for this. A good manager will be able to start finding the reasons and putting them right.

[PhatWill]

The arrogance of what you have written actually sums everything up. You still don't actually understand that Croatia and Russia are top footballing nations.

You keep believing, reality will kick in for you one day.

Russia a top footballing nation?

Sorry but that's actually just made me laugh out loud.

They have a top manager but that's about it I'm afraid.

[bh_red]

Russia a top footballing nation?

so explain how they qualified and we haven't?

it's simple......it's because they are a better team than us?

[Nibor]

so explain how they qualified and we haven't?

it's simple......it's because they are a better team than us?

Because they performed better than us over qualifying competition.

So what?

We underperformed, we all know that, it doesn't make other teams better than they are.

By that logic France, Germany, Italy and Portugal are all better than Brazil and we know that's not the case.

Our group was as easy as it gets for Euro qualifiers and we should have breezed through it by winning all of our home games, simple as that.

That doesn't mean disrespect or underestimate your opponents, it's just a realistic expectation for a nation that was top ten ranked before the qualifying started.

[bh_red]

Oh come off it Bill, a manager can make far more difference than just transferring players. Look at the difference between Sven's results and Mclaren's with the same set of players. These players ARE good enough, when you look at some of the things they can do at their best that's patently obvious.

It's also unquestionable that they're not producing their best performances anywhere near often enough for England, and there are many possible reasons for this. A good manager will be able to start finding the reasons and putting them right.

problem being how many games could McClaren actually play his best team,

regardless of performances and results, one thing that can be said is that he had a shocking time with Injuries, hence the team that played on wednesday,

any team that misses playes such as Neville, Terry, Rio, Rooney and Owen is going to have problems, it doesn't matter what strength in depth you have, any team will have problems without 5 key players, the problem is, that has been a trait that has been a constant problem for England for most of McClaren's reign, Sven had the same problems but never to such a large degree.

[bh_red]

Our group was as easy as it gets for Euro qualifiers and we should have breezed through it by winning all of our home games, simple as that.

that's the problem, it wasn't an easy group, there was other groups that I would been much happier to be in, too many people though it was a straight forward task it was never going to be the case.

just checked groups A, C, F or G, personally speaking I would have been MUCH happier to be in

as it unfortunately proved.

too many people at the time believed it was an easy group. we should have won all our home games, personally I just see that as Naive and down to many people believing media hype that too many english players are better than they actually are.

Oh and I do feel Italy are a better side than Brazil right now.

[jellyred]

Team - England have not played as a team for a long time.

Croatia are a better team than us which IS one of the reasons why they qualified and we didn't. People may say we have better individual players but we are certainly not a better TEAM.