Bristol Arena .... No Go! Not Going Ahead.

[WhistleHappy]

Think its a real shame for a City the size of ours, Bristol SHOULD have such a facility....

BUT it should be good news as far as BRISTOL CITY'S new stadium is concerned - only state of the art facility in West Country, Concerts etc... Large Events...

With nothing rivalling it & no duplication of service the demise of the Arena project surely means the planners will look even more favourably towards Bristol City's application... ?

[Fodbarmyarmy]

What did SL say...."A window of opportunity has presented itself...too good to turn down"

Got a sneaky feeling that the "ARENA" and new ground may well be connected and the announcement today scrapping the Temple Meads idea may well be tempered soon by an announcement that its replacement will be part of our new complex

[Nibor]

The arena was never going to rival a stadium, it was to be a 10k indoor facility. They don't overlap at all.

Losing it is a real pity for Bristol.

[tin]

Think its a real shame for a City the size of ours, Bristol SHOULD have such a facility....

BUT it should be good news as far as BRISTOL CITY'S new stadium is concerned - only state of the art facility in West Country, Concerts etc... Large Events...

With nothing rivalling it & no duplication of service the demise of the Arena project surely means the planners will look even more favourably towards Bristol City's application... ?

Totally agree. The council are claiming that £86m could be spent better. Well, I'm sure it could but why not just get a sponsor in to help build it privately and give Bristol the facility we all deserve.

I'm sick of having to go to Cardiff for gigs. What they going to do with the land instead? Flood the market with more homes, bars etc.

[Nibor]

Our stadium will cost ~£50m.

How come a smaller arena was going to cost £250m total (£86m from public sector)?

The council added infrastructure to the deal that pushed the cost up hugely such that no company wanted to do it.

Now all we'll get is flats that in a decade will be a new inner city slum.

[Barrs Court Red]

BCFC Council, as usefull as a chocolate teapot

[tin]

Our stadium will cost ~£50m.

How come a smaller arena was going to cost £250m total (£86m from public sector)?

The council added infrastructure to the deal that pushed the cost up hugely such that no company wanted to do it.

Now all we'll get is flats that in a decade will be a new inner city slum.

I'd say because of the site. It's central Bristol, as opposed to our location in South Bristol on the city boundary, and probably because there was a massive clean up operation to prepare the site for construction. Be that as it may, I thought that was started ages ago so God knows what's happened there.

I don't think our stadium will cost a heck of a lot more than £50m in the longrun. If we get a top drawer facility for that much I'll be delighted!

[WhistleHappy]

Totally agree. The council are claiming that £86m could be spent better. Well, I'm sure it could but why not just get a sponsor in to help build it privately and give Bristol the facility we all deserve.

I'm sick of having to go to Cardiff for gigs. What they going to do with the land instead? Flood the market with more homes, bars etc.

..that seems to be the plan Tin, more houses, more people, bigger City more demand but NO BLOODY BIG CITY 'INDOOR' CONCERT FACILITIES... (of course the council have spent tens of millions on the idea (lots of meetings/banquets there I suspect) before deciding not to go ahead)

But the knock on effect could/should have some benefits with the Bristol City Stadium plan, I'd imagine.

[GrahamC]

BCFC Council, as useful as a chocolate teapot

Yep, no surprise that it isn't going ahead (I heard this as far back as June), whichever party runs it Bristol council must be about the worst in the country, poor schools, terrible transport infrastructure, no support whatsoever for sport, they are a complete bunch of clowns.

Wonder what will happen to the huge wedge that MY council gave the developers in the first place, then? And they still manage to sell off land for flats and retail, though, don't they?

[Nibor]

I'd say because of the site. It's central Bristol, as opposed to our location in South Bristol on the city boundary, and probably because there was a massive clean up operation to prepare the site for construction. Be that as it may, I thought that was started ages ago so God knows what's happened there.

I don't think our stadium will cost a heck of a lot more than £50m in the longrun. If we get a top drawer facility for that much I'll be delighted!

Yeah the site will be tougher to work but not enough so that it costs FIVE times as much to build a facility a third of the size.

According to the BBC...

The land purchase and clean up operation was going to be £46m (and £16m of that was value of land donated not cash). £13m of this is already spent.

Then there was to be £40m of public money for constructing the arena and getting it running.

That sounds reasonable to me, as you say the site is tricky, but I'd be quite happy for my tax money to be spent on that. When you consider we probably pay transport companies who make a profit more than that every year as a subsidy it's easy to see it's peanuts.

But the council said the total cost of development was going to be around £250m - so what was the other £164m that they needed for? I reckon they tried to get lots of infrastructure funded privately and soured the whole deal.

[Barrs Court Red]

Didnt they "hand over" the land a few months back, meaning that the council now get nothing.

[bh_red]

Our stadium will cost ~£50m.

How come a smaller arena was going to cost £250m total (£86m from public sector)?

The council added infrastructure to the deal that pushed the cost up hugely such that no company wanted to do it.

Now all we'll get is flats that in a decade will be a new inner city slum.

one of the the biggest outlays for it was going to be the transportation infrastructure that had to be put into place, the biggest problem for the arena from the start was the transport links, they knew this and we told this from the start but the council thought that being next to temple meads they could get away with not doing the improvements needed for the surrounding area's road.

yet another council cockup, but they only have themselves to blame

[bernie from barrow gurney]

Our stadium will cost ~£50m.

How come a smaller arena was going to cost £250m total (£86m from public sector)?

The council added infrastructure to the deal that pushed the cost up hugely such that no company wanted to do it.

Now all we'll get is flats that in a decade will be a new inner city slum.

the land needs decontaminating as it's "brown" and this has a HUGE cost. Identify it, dig it out, move it, dump it, replace with new material - all costs massively in these times of responsible regeneration and environmental tax.

the only way that land could now be made to pay would be through expensive housing - it could never be a slum as a. no-one builds low value or council homes any more in city centres, only suburbs, as they want skilled workers in towns without paying for transport to commute them in. Low skilled, Unemployed and Unemployable can rot in squalor somewhere else, apparently dumped near low rent retail centres b. the location by temple meads and paintworks would mean high prices from ressie prices and office rents of £30 per square foot or more = big income for councils through section 301 payments, high council tax rates and business rates. Mix of office flats and leisure, So expect harbourside dev # 2 in 20 years time or more once the squabbling is over.

Not all council's fault, also SWRDA and Gov Office of SW as well. Blind leading the blind. Pathetic. £14m worth of happy lawyers and consultants though.

[bh_red]

the land needs decontaminating as it's "brown" and this has a HUGE cost. Identify it, dig it out, move it, dump it, replace with new material - all costs massively in these times of responsible regeneration and environmental tax.

very fair point!

[bernie from barrow gurney]

one of the the biggest outlays for it was going to be the transportation infrastructure that had to be put into place, the biggest problem for the arena from the start was the transport links, they knew this and we told this from the start but the council thought that being next to temple meads they could get away with not doing the improvements needed for the surrounding area's road.

yet another council cockup, but they only have themselves to blame

exactly - also ask the transport team about the infrastructure around the new Broadmead (three times size of old one) and doubling size of BRI, with a bigger coach station in between. all due to come on stream next year. if you think traffic is bad here now, just wait till this time next year..

[tin]

Yeah the site will be tougher to work but not enough so that it costs FIVE times as much to build a facility a third of the size.

According to the BBC...

The land purchase and clean up operation was going to be £46m (and £16m of that was value of land donated not cash). £13m of this is already spent.

Then there was to be £40m of public money for constructing the arena and getting it running.

That sounds reasonable to me, as you say the site is tricky, but I'd be quite happy for my tax money to be spent on that. When you consider we probably pay transport companies who make a profit more than that every year as a subsidy it's easy to see it's peanuts.

But the council said the total cost of development was going to be around £250m - so what was the other £164m that they needed for? I reckon they tried to get lots of infrastructure funded privately and soured the whole deal.

Think you've hit the nail on the head there mate. There's no real way that £164m could be explained IMHO. As you say, I'd much rather know that my taxes are going towards something the people of Bristol could be proud of. Don't get me started on the transport companies in our area. I pay £6 a journey from Portishead to Bristol on the bus for jack shit!

[CiderHider]

Simple fact is we don't need a new stadium just yet, why risk the clubs finances and future to have a few more empty seats?

AG is fine until we are consolidated in the Premiership, and only then can we seriously look to move, unless the council are going to pay for 80% of it for us, which they should do anyways the bloody Sags!!!, that or give us permission to redevelop AG without it costing a small fortune, meh unlikely really.

[WhistleHappy]

very fair point!

..but still something the council would have been aware of since day one...

Clowns To The Left Of Us - Jokers To The Right, Here I Am Stuck In The Middle With You!... BCC/GOSW total load of incompetence.

Still I suppose after all the ongoing public subsidy money being given to FirstBus for our excellent & cheap public transport we shouldnt complain, results speak for themselves -a first class service, but it must all leave a hole in the councils pocket!...

[Barrs Court Red]

Simple fact is we don't need a new stadium just yet, why risk the clubs finances and future to have a few more empty seats?

AG is fine until we are consolidated in the Premiership, and only then can we seriously look to move, unless the council are going to pay for 80% of it for us, which they should do anyways the bloody Sags!!!, that or give us permission to redevelop AG without it costing a small fortune, meh unlikely really.

Simple fact is, we do need a new stadium to compete anf grow.

[bringbacktherobin]

Wells thats a suprise!!

[Nibor]

the land needs decontaminating as it's "brown" and this has a HUGE cost. Identify it, dig it out, move it, dump it, replace with new material - all costs massively in these times of responsible regeneration and environmental tax.

The costs you mention are a total of £16m in land value and £30m in cash of which we've already spent £13m.

the only way that land could now be made to pay would be through expensive housing - it could never be a slum as a. no-one builds low value or council homes any more in city centres, only suburbs, as they want skilled workers in towns without paying for transport to commute them in. Low skilled, Unemployed and Unemployable can rot in squalor somewhere else, apparently dumped near low rent retail centres b. the location by temple meads and paintworks would mean high prices from ressie prices and office rents of £30 per square foot or more = big income for councils through section 301 payments, high council tax rates and business rates. Mix of office flats and leisure, So expect harbourside dev # 2 in 20 years time or more once the squabbling is over.

They will build lots flats on it around the £150-200k mark because they have centrally set targets for 28k new homes. When the arse falls out of the housing market, overpriced flats will be the first thing to crash. Office space would be pointless, there are already masses of empty office buildings in central Bristol and the ppsqf in central Bristol has dropped to around a third of that in somewhere like Aztec West because of mess the council have made of the road network.

Not all council's fault, also SWRDA and Gov Office of SW as well. Blind leading the blind. Pathetic. £14m worth of happy lawyers and consultants though.

They're all morons and none of them take responsibility. It seems to me that in any other region in the bloody country this thing would be child's play but for some reason our local government muppets are incapable of making good decisions.

[Nibor]

one of the the biggest outlays for it was going to be the transportation infrastructure that had to be put into place, the biggest problem for the arena from the start was the transport links, they knew this and we told this from the start but the council thought that being next to temple meads they could get away with not doing the improvements needed for the surrounding area's road.

yet another council cockup, but they only have themselves to blame

The infrastructure is needed anyway regardless of an arena. You can't put thousands of sq feet of offices and flats in there without it.

I suspect the council were trying to get private enterprise to fund the infrastructure work and at the same time hold onto a big chunk of the arena which itself would turn a profit in a few years.

The numbers just don't make sense when you look at them.

[bh_red]

exactly - also ask the transport team about the infrastructure around the new Broadmead (three times size of old one) and doubling size of BRI, with a bigger coach station in between. all due to come on stream next year. if you think traffic is bad here now, just wait till this time next year..

don't even get me started on the broadmead costs! it's frightening! you seriously have to wonder where all the money is going?

out of interest what kind of firm do you work for?

[bh_red]

The costs you mention are a total of £16m in land value and £30m in cash of which we've already spent £13m.

They will build lots flats on it around the £150-200k mark because they have centrally set targets for 28k new homes. When the arse falls out of the housing market, overpriced flats will be the first thing to crash. Office space would be pointless, there are already masses of empty office buildings in central Bristol and the ppsqf in central Bristol has dropped to around a third of that in somewhere like Aztec West because of mess the council have made of the road network.

They're all morons and none of them take responsibility. It seems to me that in any other region in the bloody country this thing would be child's play but for some reason our local government muppets are incapable of making good decisions.

overpriced flats....they are already are on the verge of crashing,

the biggest problem in the whole thing is Bristol City Council, they go out and speak to varouis companies regarding these developements and then try to cut corners to reduce costs and basically ignore the advice they are given,

Then when things go wrong, the point they try to point the finger elsewhere for responsiblity, when actually their problem is they haven't done as they were recommended.

[bh_red]

The infrastructure is needed anyway regardless of an arena. You can't put thousands of sq feet of offices and flats in there without it.

I suspect the council were trying to get private enterprise to fund the infrastructure work and at the same time hold onto a big chunk of the arena which itself would turn a profit in a few years.

The numbers just don't make sense when you look at them.

the numbers actually do make a lot of sense, however the numbers they have actually shown in the media are missing key parts of the costs involved.

unsure of other infrastructure, but for the transportation means just building offices and homes they can substantially reduce the costs needed, some work will still be needed, however nothing like the amount that would have been needed for the arena.

However, it all boils down to not listening to the intial consultation they were given and not including it in the intial plans, this whole thing is a great big mess that should have been sorted out and most likely putten to bed years ago, unfortunately sometimes people just think they know best, despite what the "experts" tell them.

[CiderHider]

Simple fact is, we do need a new stadium to compete and grow.

Where are we gona find the kind of money we need though? You can't expect SL to fund it all, or the club to go into the red to fund it, what if we go back down to league 1, or worse adminastration? God forbid.

White elephant.

We need a joint venture or sorts, and massive subsidized funding from the council or local investors, or massive investment from somone with 5h1t loads of cash who does not mind taking a big risk, that is not SL or BCFC I'm afraid.

A new stadium is a huge huge move, we need to ensure that if we do go ahead with it, its for all the right reasons financially, not just to look pretty and apease us fans.

what till the prem, we'll get there.

[Nibor]

the numbers actually do make a lot of sense, however the numbers they have actually shown in the media are missing key parts of the costs involved.

Really? Where can I find a better breakdown?

The figures I've seen across the media are £250m total, £86m from public pocket (£40m construction, £46m land buy and cleanup). That would indicate there was supposed to be £164m other cash unexplained, and I think this was the council trying to get the private sector to pay for infrastructure that a commercial venture operating an arena could never hope to see a return on.

unsure of other infrastructure, but for the transportation means just building offices and homes they can substantially reduce the costs needed, some work will still be needed, however nothing like the amount that would have been needed for the arena.

I can't see why infrastructure supporting offices and homes is somehow cheaper. You have to build the same roads, offer the same services. You might need a bit more capacity for an arena because it has peakier traffic but building a road twice as wide doesn't cost twice as much.

However, it all boils down to not listening to the intial consultation they were given and not including it in the intial plans, this whole thing is a great big mess that should have been sorted out and most likely putten to bed years ago, unfortunately sometimes people just think they know best, despite what the "experts" tell them.

So what are you saying they did wrong exactly?

[Nibor]

Where are we gona find the kind of money we need though? You can't expect SL to fund it all, or the club to go into the red to fund it, what if we go back down to league 1, or worse adminastration? God forbid.

White elephant.

We need a joint venture or sorts, and massive subsidized funding from the council or local investors, or massive investment from somone with 5h1t loads of cash who does not mind taking a big risk, that is not SL or BCFC I'm afraid.

A new stadium is a huge huge move, we need to ensure that if we do go ahead with it, its for all the right reasons financially, not just to look pretty and apease us fans.

what till the prem, we'll get there.

You can't wait til the Prem to build one, they take 5 years to get done. Besides, when you look at the Championship aside from doing really well this season it's apparent that we need a new stadium to compete at THIS level. Look at the budgets other teams have.

The whole point of a new stadium is to work it 7 days a week not just one. If we partner with someone we end up not getting the revenue from the other six days.

The money to fund it will be borrowed, probably from a variety of sources, and the increased turnover a new stadium brings will pay it back.

The clubs that get into financial straights with a new stadium are those who don't end up owning it. As long as we do we'll be fine.

[CodeRed]

The clubs that get into financial straights with a new stadium are those who don't end up owning it. As long as we do we'll be fine.

ie Coventry

What is a concern now is that councillors (Tory Dep Leader Gollop quoted in EP) are now starting to link the failure of the Arena project with the new City stadium. This guy quoted thus

"Mr Gollop said it would be "madness" to put in infrastructure on both the Arena site and any site Bristol City settles on for a new stadium in south Bristol. He called for an urgent feasibility study to look at the possibility of combining an arena with a new football stadium.

So already the call's out for another look at putting us into the arena site - does this mean if SL goes ahead with the Long Ashton site the councillors will be trying to force us to delay whilst considering that site.

I really think that Bristol Council will be a much bigger obstacle to the new stadium than finding the £30M will ever be. If our new LA site IS in Bristol, and not North Somerset we will be in for a very long journey with this inept council - despite any so called assurances given to SL.

CR

[Nibor]

What is a concern now is that councillors (Tory Dep Leader Gollop quoted in EP) are now starting to link the failure of the Arena project with the new City stadium. This guy quoted thus

"Mr Gollop said it would be "madness" to put in infrastructure on both the Arena site and any site Bristol City settles on for a new stadium in south Bristol. He called for an urgent feasibility study to look at the possibility of combining an arena with a new football stadium.

So already the call's out for another look at putting us into the arena site - does this mean if SL goes ahead with the Long Ashton site the councillors will be trying to force us to delay whilst considering that site.

I really think that Bristol Council will be a much bigger obstacle to the new stadium than finding the £30M will ever be. If our new LA site IS in Bristol, and not North Somerset we will be in for a very long journey with this inept council - despite any so called assurances given to SL.

CR

Jesus Christ.

If the council start trying to interfere with our new stadium it will be an unmitigated disaster that never gets completed.

I can't imagine anything worse than us trying to develop something with the council involved beyond just giving permission.

SteveL has more sense than that I'm sure, I hope he makes it clear publicly that we are completely uninvolved with anything to do with arenas and intend to remain so.