Fuel Blockade

[next_year_I_hope]

only 59 more minutes to see if the proposed fuel blockade starts or not i for 1 hope it does so that brown will stop giving our rights away to europe and lowers the vat on fuel so the price goes down

[fka dagest]

only 59 more minutes to see if the proposed fuel blockade starts or not i for 1 hope it does so that brown will stop giving our rights away to europe and lowers the vat on fuel so the price goes down

As with most of these protests it just pisses off ordinary people (as opposed to politicians and their clique) who are merely trying to go about their everyday activities. And to be honest, I don't really care about a load of petit-bourgeois truck-drivers and farmers.

[next_year_I_hope]

so you don't mind paying over 100p a litre for unleaded then and that the government charges around 70% a litre vat which is by far one of the dearest in europe?

[fka dagest]

so you don't mind paying over 100p a litre for unleaded then and that the government charges around 70% a litre vat which is by far one of the dearest in europe?

I do mind that and a 100 other things. I mind paying tax to prop up an old and corrupt aristocracy, to support the imperialist adventures of Western Capitalism, to provide a new generation of nuclear armoury, to see the govt chucking money at failed capitalist ventures and lots of other things.

However inconveniencing ordinary people who have no say in any of these things will not solve the problem. I'd like to the politicians inconvenienced. However any direct action aimed at the "scum" is severely dealt with by the old bill. The recent Class War march on Tory Toff Cameron's house was met with a a very aggressive and intolerant police force.

[next_year_I_hope]

it did last time the price of fuel went down after the last strike in 2000?

[fka dagest]

it did last time the price of fuel went down after the last strike in 2000?

Yes, but it also hit everyone else. For example, hospitals were facing the prospect of ambulances running out of fuel and that just wasn't acceptable.

[Bcfc3660]

I am going to make my own Bio Diesel. If i can get free used vegtable oil it will cost me 12p a litre to make and as from June 07 you are able to make 2500 litres of alternative fuel a year tax free. So if anybody knows anywhere i can get hold of largish ammounts of used veggie oil free of charge please let me know! All of the takeaways in my area have it picked up.

[Bcfc3660]

Yes, but it also hit everyone else. For example, hospitals were facing the prospect of ambulances running out of fuel and that just wasn't acceptable.

It wont come to that. Key workers are able to get a set amount of fuel per fill at certain fuel stations, Nurses, teachers, armed forces people like that. Fuel will always be made avaliable for the emergancy services.

[bucksred]

it did last time the price of fuel went down after the last strike in 2000?

And cost companies hundreds of thousands of pounds. we had several contractors laid off as a result. Yeah top idea. for those guys.

This inspired by farmers who bang on about buying British. don't see many of them using British tractors, 4wd vehicles, and other farm equipment-oh and the get money off the EU, the same one they bitch about.

[Northern Red]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7145581.stm

Well that was a roaring success, wasn't it ?

[Nibor]

I have no sympathy for fuel protesters.

The price is going up precisely with the intention of less people being able to afford it so that less people can use it and therefore cutting down on the nation's CO2 output. That is pretty important if we want to keep dragging the dumbass yanks towards emissions targets that might prevent us from being underwater some time in the next 100 years.

All these people whining about fuel prices will just pass the cost on anyway like they always do.

The only problem is that the government aren't investing the income from fuel duty in researching cleaner technologies and public transport. That's actually worth complaining about.

[Barrs Court Red]

Fuel protests are just. If the powers that be want to lower emitions, they should sort out the public transport, not try and price people off the road while offering a piss poor alternative.

[Nibor]

Fuel protests are just. If the powers that be want to lower emitions, they should sort out the public transport, not try and price people off the road while offering a piss poor alternative.

But the fuel protests aren't about sorting out public transport, they're about the government alledgedly taking money off the poor hard up transport company owners.

[Barrs Court Red]

But they are going to be hard up.

%60 tax, to be added upon by a pay as you drive road tax replacement. Brilliant, English firms go bust and then who will move freight? Rail? The railways are overstretched. Boat? How will it move from port.

No, the more firms go under the more foriegn lorries on our roads, with longer journies meaning yet more carbon.

[Nibor]

But they are going to be hard up.

%60 tax, to be added upon by a pay as you drive road tax replacement. Brilliant, English firms go bust and then who will move freight? Rail? The railways are overstretched. Boat? How will it move from port.

No, the more firms go under the more foriegn lorries on our roads, with longer journies meaning yet more carbon.

You're basically just repeating propaganda and it simply isn't true.

I don't think transport companies are going to be hard up at all, they will merely pass the cost on. They did it last time, there was a noticeable lack of frieght companies going bust and in fact the only people affected were those whose freight wasn't being carried due to the protests.

Foreign freight firms do not compete with UK freight firms for UK business. You don't see foreign lorries on UK roads other than where they're delivering goods from abroad and that isn't going to change. The fuel prices have a LONG way to go before it would be economical for continental firms to drive here for work.

The railways aren't overstretched for freight capacity. There's plenty of that available because it doesn't mean fitting in more trains just sticking extra cars on existing services (can't be done with passengers but can with freight).

Fuel duty has increased by 25% (less than inflation) over the last decade. Oil prices have gone up 270% in the same time period.

The whining freight lobby should count itself lucky that their 21 tonne monsters aren't charged far more road tax for the hugely disproportionate damage they do to them. And as for the subsidy grabbing loaded farmers, they must surely be taking the piss.

[Barrs Court Red]

You're basically just repeating propaganda and it simply isn't true. Behave Nibor I'm no mug, I'm informed enough on matters to sift through the crap. Why should your view point be any more valid or truthefull than others. Suprised you've taken that line.

I don't think transport companies are going to be hard up at all, they will merely pass the cost on. They did it last time, there was a noticeable lack of frieght companies going bust and in fact the only people affected were those whose freight wasn't being carried due to the protests.

Pass the cost on these days means relocating, global economy aside it is a simple part of life being in the EU

Foreign freight firms do not compete with UK freight firms for UK business. You don't see foreign lorries on UK roads other than where they're delivering goods from abroad and that isn't going to change. The fuel prices have a LONG way to go before it would be economical for continental firms to drive here for work.I'm sorry, but I didn't say that they were.

The railways aren't overstretched for freight capacity. There's plenty of that available because it doesn't mean fitting in more trains just sticking extra cars on existing services (can't be done with passengers but can with freight).Sorry, thats simply not the case. The rail network is full to capacity, there's a few on here who can tell you that!

Fuel duty has increased by 25% (less than inflation) over the last decade. Oil prices have gone up 270% in the same time period.But since 2000 has gone up more than the rate of inflation. Oil prices we can't do much amount I agree, but you miss out that 60% of fuel cost is tax.

The whining freight lobby should count itself lucky that their 21 tonne monsters aren't charged far more road tax for the hugely disproportionate damage they do to them. And as for the subsidy grabbing loaded farmers, they must surely be taking the piss.Without frieght, and companies to move it or economy will slow down and enter a recession quicker than I can say "Nibor in tree hugging shock"

An underground network of mud powered trains driven by mutated Molmen is the way forward, and more realistic than the notion that pricing people off the road is a good thing.

[Nibor]

Behave Nibor I'm no mug, I'm informed enough on matters to sift through the crap. Why should your view point be any more valid or truthefull than others. Suprised you've taken that line.

I haven't taken that line, what you're saying is pretty much exactly what the freight companies say which is why I said you're repeating their propaganda. Look into the sources for this information.

.Sorry, thats simply not the case. The rail network is full to capacity, there's a few on here who can tell you that!

No it isn't. There are existing freight services that can be increased in VOLUME by adding more cars to each train. There isn't room for more trains but they aren't needed. But actually it's debatable that there will be any need, because all that will happen as prices increase is that the frivolous loads won't get shipped any more.

But since 2000 has gone up more than the rate of inflation.

Then clearly it went up well lower than inflation the preceding three years. I wonder who chose to measure it from that particular point in time 7 years ago? That's a strange number. Perhaps someone who wanted to make sure it fit the "above inflation" tagline they wanted to use?

Oil prices we can't do much amount I agree, but you miss out that 60% of fuel cost is tax.

There has always been significant tax on fuel going back 100 years. Clearly the proportion has gone up as we've discovered how bad burning the stuff is and realised there's a limited supply. Boo-chuffing-hoo.

Without frieght, and companies to move it or economy will slow down and enter a recession quicker than I can say "Nibor in tree hugging shock"

An underground network of mud powered trains driven by mutated Molmen is the way forward, and more realistic than the notion that pricing people off the road is a good thing.

I'm far from a tree hugger, I'm just realistic. Burning fossil fuels is quite obviously a bloody stupid idea and we need to stop doing it. We won't whilst people can get rich doing so. Freight won't die because of gradual duty rises, nor will duty rises cause a recession. That's just a massive exaggeration - from the propaganda.

The thing that should be protested about is what the government does with the £23bn a year it makes from fuel duty, because it sure as shit doesn't invest it in public transport or clean energy.

[Dollymarie]

Public transport isnt always suitable for everyone sadly. I need my car to transport the disabled child I look after and he finishes school at different times every day and has appointments and other things he needs to get to which make bus travel virtually impossible for him, not to mention that he couldnt even get on a bus in his wheelchair.

I don't earn a lot of money doing the job I do, and thankfully I live upstairs from where I work, so I don't have a daily commute, I still have to have my car though, and the price of petrol is just far too high at the moment.

I know we need the money to pay for services etc, but maybe people wouldnt complain so much if they could actually see a worthwhile alternative to using their car (if it was practical to do so) or if they could actually see improvements being made to other public services such as the NHS or schools which is where the government spend the money.

Maybe if the government stopped so many people stopped sponging off the state there might be more money freed up for other things.

[WhistleHappy]

Public transport isnt always suitable for everyone sadly. I need my car to transport the disabled child I look after and he finishes school at different times every day and has appointments and other things he needs to get to which make bus travel virtually impossible for him, not to mention that he couldnt even get on a bus in his wheelchair.

I don't earn a lot of money doing the job I do, and thankfully I live upstairs from where I work, so I don't have a daily commute, I still have to have my car though, and the price of petrol is just far too high at the moment.

I know we need the money to pay for services etc, but maybe people wouldnt complain so much if they could actually see a worthwhile alternative to using their car (if it was practical to do so) or if they could actually see improvements being made to other public services such as the NHS or schools which is where the government spend the money.

Maybe if the government stopped so many people stopped sponging off the state there might be more money freed up for other things.

Dolly, maybe if the public transport system was sorted out, cost/efficiency etc, then non essential car use maybe reduced thus making getting around our clogged up City's (& endless searching for scarce & evermore expensive places to park) a little easier for everyone, including yourself, who's car use is unavoidable. (too many shareholders would be upset)

The cost of fuel is too high & far too little of its tax revenue is spent on things to make travelling (for Joe Public) in this country any easier. (too many shareholders & vested interests would be upset)

Sadly your final point on Government savings, like wise when we've had unexpected 'bonus income' from things like North Sea oil & gas .... savings made or incomes created (despite much flagwaving at the time) NEVER seem to benefit the man or woman in the street to any decernable degree.. I'd be wary of falling for convenient political propaganda when stuff like this is spouted by Government's seeking to find scapegoats,.... everything be it savings/cutbacks/windfalls or whatever always goes into the same pot & disappears into some kind of central blackhole, money is always found for conflicts, beaureaucratic posturing & junkets etc... while public services are forever being cut & pared to the bone.

They occasionally throw a titbit to the public at or near to election times. (speculate to accumulate)

Theres little caring & even less meaningful sharing going on from 'the top' & I don't detect much chance of these attitudes changing for the better. (gotta keep them investors happy- sorry)

[zookeeper]

Was recently in Italy and fuel prices were very similar to here. Between 1.35 Euros and 1.4. If our tax is so much higher than everyone elese then someone must be making money over there.