Lee Johnson & Today's Game

[dezgimed]

Just as well that the manager has better judgement than you then!

Of course, I'm not suggesting otherwise.

However anyone who knows a father who watches his son play football at any level would know that they cannot remove that bias and favoritism.

No matter how professional Johnson is, he cant overlook the fact LJ is his son.

Same with Sturrock, Bruce (how shit is he?!), Pulis etc.

[SimplyRed]

He doesn't get dropped or subbed because he plays well and if he does have an off game we haven't got another player like him so we would lose his passing ability. Out of all the players on the bench yesterday who could have come on and replaced LJ and done a good job against Premiership opposition.

Vasko was brilliant yesterday I thought. I like it how despite him being so tall he always tries and plays the ball with his feet.

How do we know if he's never dropped or substituted? No one is bigger than the team, yet it seems that those who defend Johnson think that the team will fall apart if he didn't play - what tripe!

I sometimes wonder whether some Man Utd fans thought that their team would fall apart when Ferguson got rid of Beckham, or Van Nistelrooy.

We should be striving to improve the team. I simply don't think Johnson is big enough or strong enough for this level, and certainly not Premiership.

As I said, I wouldn't worry so much if others got a chance, but it looks like he's a permanent fixture, and he simply isn't good enough for that.

Oh, and yes, Vasko was a cut above. He's impressed me immensely, and I'd like to see him in the centre with Carey.

[Godzilla]

Many Bristolians do equate tackling and going in hard with effort and commitment and therefore not doing so with not putting the effort in.

In your opinion, do you think this is just Bristolians or football fans in general?

If it is just Bristolians, do you think it's because generally City have only ever played at a low-ish standard and so people haven't witnessed quick, pass and move football?

In other words; footballing wise, we don't have a particularly well educated set of fans because they've never seen regular top-level football?

[Redtucks]

Of course, I'm not suggesting otherwise.

However anyone who knows a father who watches his son play football at any level would know that they cannot remove that bias and favoritism.

No matter how professional Johnson is, he cant overlook the fact LJ is his son.

Same with Sturrock, Bruce (how shit is he?!), Pulis etc.

GJ obviously has a different opinion to you as to whether LJ gives 100%.

Considering what GJ has achieved since he has been at this club, I am inclined to go with his opinion rather than yours.

Any suggestion that LJ is allowed to get away with less than 100% because he is the son of the manager is a bloody insult to GJ!

[Nibor]

In your opinion, do you think this is just Bristolians or football fans in general?

If it is just Bristolians, do you think it's because generally City have only ever played at a low-ish standard and so people haven't witnessed quick, pass and move football?

In other words; footballing wise, we don't have a particularly well educated set of fans because they've never seen regular top-level football?

I dunno whether it's Bristolians to be honest, I don't watch much football with fans from other places. I do think that that's what happens in our crowd though.

Perhaps you're right and it is because we've been at the lower end of the league so long, I definitely think from listening to phone ins etc, that fans of top flight teams are more inclined to forgive the flair/creative players for not doing the dirty work. If you watch some local amateur football all the talk is about passion and commitment and challenging, there's not much talk about passing or moving into space etc.

Maybe it's your more traditional (blue collar for want of a better phrase) fan vs your modern white collar/family fan?

Interesting one.

[Redtucks]

The thing is though that's how much of the crowd thinks.

Many Bristolians do equate tackling and going in hard with effort and commitment and therefore not doing so with not putting the effort in.

I think LJ is being more intelligent about it, he knows it's not his strength so he concentrates on what is - staying available to make the play when the ball is won - and only makes those types of challenges when he absolutely has to.

To many people in the crowd that can appear to be laziness and I reckon that's got far more to do with him getting stick than who his dad is, and I think he could probably help himself out by making a couple of high visibility crunching challenges and desperate chases now and then even if it means someone else has to pass the resultant ball.

I have to agree with you that many of the crowd see it that way.

Some players can appear lazy whilst doing a fair shift. Others can look very busy whilst achieving very little.

However, with the current levels of fitness and commitment demanded by GJ, I find it difficult to accept that he would tolerate anyone, even less so LJ, giving less than 100%.

I'm sure the team spirit and togetherness, which has been key in the sucess this season and last, would not be so strong if there was a feeling that any of the team was regularly giving less than 100%.

[dezgimed]

GJ obviously has a different opinion to you as to whether LJ gives 100%.

Considering what GJ has achieved since he has been at this club, I am inclined to go with his opinion rather than yours.

Any suggestion that LJ is allowed to get away with less than 100% because he is the son of the manager is a bloody insult to GJ!

Well I'm sorry but it has to be a factor.

Its the same for the managers I mentioned.

I don't recall ever seeing a player who can play poorly in a game and not be subbed, or have successive poor games and not be dropped.

If you honestly cant see that then....I dunno...might aswell debate with a brick wall.

[Nibor]

I don't recall ever seeing a player who can play poorly in a game and not be subbed, or have successive poor games and not be dropped.

There were several that fell into that category under Wilson IMO.

[Redtucks]

Well I'm sorry but it has to be a factor.

Its the same for the managers I mentioned.

I don't recall ever seeing a player who can play poorly in a game and not be subbed, or have successive poor games and not be dropped.

If you honestly cant see that then....I dunno...might aswell debate with a brick wall.

You obviously don't have a son of your own.

When I used to help run the team my lad played for, I was his biggest critic.

I would tolerate less from him than any of the others

The manager was the biggest critic of his own son. So were virtually all the other dads the biggest critics of their respective sons.

I would suggest that GJ is probably no different.

[City Rocker]

Rarely do we see him sprint to make a challenge or bomb forward, let alone go into a challenge with 100% commitement.

Dezgimed, I hardly ever come on this forum and have NEVER posted anything about Lee Johnson before as far as I can remember, but your posts have prompted me to respond. You should be proud!

I'm pretty sure you understand that midfields are made up of ball-winners and play-makers. Most of us would agree that Lee isn't generally a ball-winner (though to be fair, he has his moments), but have you ever watched the amount of running off the ball that LJ does every game, creating space for himself and his team mates? And even in the games when certain people have accused him of being shit, have you counted the number of passes he's made to players moving in a forward direction or to a teammate who is in a position to play that ball into an attacking move?

One bloke sat immediately behind me at Plymouth this season was hurling abuse at LJ's every touch of the ball, despite the fact he was patently one of the best players on the pitch. Mistakes by any other City player would go unnoticed, but the slightest mis-directed pass by LJ and this #### would be on his feet hurling abuse at our boy.

I just think some people are incapable of understanding a game of football.

[Red Ass]

Well I'm sorry but it has to be a factor.

Its the same for the managers I mentioned.

I don't recall ever seeing a player who can play poorly in a game and not be subbed, or have successive poor games and not be dropped.

If you honestly cant see that then....I dunno...might aswell debate with a brick wall.

Trust Gary's judgment, he seems to be getting it right so far, so whats the problem? Yes yesterdays result was disappointing, but it's probably a blessing in disguise being out of a cup we are never likely to win.

I think we would have all settled for consolidation this season anyway, If we were starring at relegation, i could probably see where you were coming from?

[dezgimed]

Dezgimed, I hardly ever come on this forum and have NEVER posted anything about Lee Johnson before as far as I can remember, but your posts have prompted me to respond. You should be proud!

I'm pretty sure you understand that midfields are made up of ball-winners and play-makers. Most of us would agree that Lee isn't generally a ball-winner (though to be fair, he has his moments), but have you ever watched the amount of running off the ball that LJ does every game, creating space for himself and his team mates? And even in the games when certain people have accused him of being shit, have you counted the number of passes he's made to players moving in a forward direction or to a teammate who is in a position to play that ball into an attacking move?

One bloke sat immediately behind me at Plymouth this season was hurling abuse at LJ's every touch of the ball, despite the fact he was patently one of the best players on the pitch. Mistakes by any other City player would go unnoticed, but the slightest mis-directed pass by LJ and this #### would be on his feet hurling abuse at our boy.

I just think some people are incapable of understanding a game of football.

I understand the game fine.

Being a playmaker doesnt mean a player can skip challenges, simple as that.

[MarcusX]

Absolutely.

Rarely do we see him sprint to make a challenge or bomb forward, let alone go into a challenge with 100% commitement.

Until we do, I cant say he's putting in his maximum.

The way he casually jogs around the pitch make players like McIndoe, Elliott and Orr look like worldbeaters.

Umm maybe thats because he ISNT a tough tackling midfielder, thats NOT what he does.

Elliot is a ball winning midfielder, he goes in hard and tracks back very well, his vision at times is very narrow and his passing is simple.

Johnson is the more "pretty" player, he collects the ball, his vision is very good and is passing is,at least 75% of the time spot on and when he tries something clever it can very often lead to goal scoring opportunites. If he was doing what Elliot did and constantly looking to win the ball back and chasing players all the time, which many think he should do, then who would be there to clean up and move the ball on from there.

The simple fact is, Elliot and Johnson compliment each other very well, and then when noble is in the team we have that extra player with great vision, its just that Noble tends to either have a very good game, or he isnt in it at all.

[MarcusX]

You obviously don't have a son of your own.

When I used to help run the team my lad played for, I was his biggest critic.

I would tolerate less from him than any of the others

The manager was the biggest critic of his own son. So were virtually all the other dads the biggest critics of their respective sons.

I would suggest that GJ is probably no different.

Exactly, have played for my Dad I can back this up, uless youve been in that situation you wont realise it as easily.

It is certainly easier to criticise someone you know very well, like his son, than some one he doesnt know as well. OK bad example because he should know all his players very well, but obviously he knows his son better. If you have ever worked with a family member you would understand that.

[CHIPLEY RED]

LJ is our play maker in mid field and so makes more passes than anyone else. It follows he will misplace more than anyone else but he is always there trying to create something. I've read a few posts about Johnson shirking his responsibility on Saturday, well i didn't notice. I thought we were out played by a poor Premership team who look comfortable until we went 4-4-2. Byfield didn't get anything from the long balls which kept coming to him and he was left without support on his own against a premership defence. Noble was poor and IMO has been for a few games even though we've been winning but they win as a team and loose as a team and we should support the TEAM. I find it so dissappointing that the first poor pass that Johnson makes he gets abuse from a vocal minority yet those same people seem blind to the poor distribution of Basso for example.

Our TEAM has performed better than anyone expected at the start of the season and LJ has played every game (i think) and to be where we are he must be playing well more often than not because we couldn't be so high in the league carrying a central midfielder. Lets all get behind the whole team yes moan when things don't go well but don't pick out LJ as the reason we loose games or play badly. At the end of the day GJ picks the team not LJ so if you think selecting LJ is wrong start a thread moaning about GJ's team selection and see how many people agree that GJ is not doing a good job.

[giles_23_bcfc]

Umm maybe thats because he ISNT a tough tackling midfielder, thats NOT what he does.

Elliot is a ball winning midfielder, he goes in hard and tracks back very well, his vision at times is very narrow and his passing is simple.

Johnson is the more "pretty" player, he collects the ball, his vision is very good and is passing is,at least 75% of the time spot on and when he tries something clever it can very often lead to goal scoring opportunites. If he was doing what Elliot did and constantly looking to win the ball back and chasing players all the time, which many think he should do, then who would be there to clean up and move the ball on from there.

The simple fact is, Elliot and Johnson compliment each other very well, and then when noble is in the team we have that extra player with great vision, its just that Noble tends to either have a very good game, or he isnt in it at all.

Got to say i agree with every word of that. I watched Johnson for about a 15 minute spell in the first half against Coventry, and some of the movement he made to try and open up space for other players was brilliant. A few of his passes, had they have not been intercepted (and intercepted well) would surely have led to a goal scoring opportunity.

However, i do have to say, i thought Lee had a poor game yesterday. Though to be fair, i though the game overall was the poorest ive seen this season. From both teams, not just City. But for the first time in over a month i though Lee Johnson didnt play well.

[Corsham Alf]

This article is one of the best I have read on this forum in a very long time and 100% accurrate. I have watched City 9 times this season including 2 excellent away victories at Norwich City (boy that was a journey I will never forget!) and at Watford.

In most games LJ has contributed well. Never outstanding but always available and uses the ball intelligently. He's definately one of our best passers of the ball and you can usually count on one hand the number of times he loses possession. Yes he is reliant on a ball winner like Elliott who has been our player of the season, but that's why he compliments him so well.

Saturday's game was a disappointment as the whole team never functioined. But taking into account the energy sapping Christmas period where we did so well it wasn't entirely surprising.

I thought the back 4 did well, but offensively we showed very little. Credit to Boro though. They were big and strong and got their tactics spot on.

Noble for me was the biggest disappointment. He lacks a yard of pace (so wasn't able to get up field quickly enough to support Byfield) and was rightly substituted. I also thought Enoch looked out of his depth when he came on. We need a rejuvenated Brooke back to top form to push for a place. Enoch tries hard but isn't a long term answer.

[bucksred]

The thing is though that's how much of the crowd thinks.

Many Bristolians do equate tackling and going in hard with effort and commitment and therefore not doing so with not putting the effort in.

I think LJ is being more intelligent about it, he knows it's not his strength so he concentrates on what is - staying available to make the play when the ball is won - and only makes those types of challenges when he absolutely has to.

To many people in the crowd that can appear to be laziness and I reckon that's got far more to do with him getting stick than who his dad is, and I think he could probably help himself out by making a couple of high visibility crunching challenges and desperate chases now and then even if it means someone else has to pass the resultant ball.

Nibor, the proverbial nail on the head there. Exactly what he should have done to help out during the second half against Leicester, when EVERYONE else was back tackling, battling, against the Leicester surges forward. He has undoubted skills, and a good footballing brain, but, hes not always back there when the team as a whole is up against it.

If he did as you suggested come in with the tackles, when required to, most people would be a whole lot happier. And he would be the more complete player too.

I'm not advocating the Tommy doc style tackles/madness by the way. LJ has a just wee bit more skill than Doc, and a whole load less bad attitude.

[BristolCity1992]

Just out of interest in the last game against Cov did Marvin take the deeper role and Lee the more attacking role?

Think this was much better.