The Cup Is Dead, Not Worth Worrying About These Days

[Barrs Court Red]

Look at the attendances across the board yesterday. The only places that come close to selling out were Spurs, Ipswich and West Ham. I speaks volumes when Aston Villa don't get a full house against Man U, we get bigger crowds for league games and only 4,000 bother wo watch Preston!

We've fallen into line with the continent, where the league and Europe is what capture the public imagination, to national cups.

Glad we went out, the cup is just a sideshow to the main event for us - The Championship.

[Redhyde]

Until the cup is made financially worthwhile it won't be taken seriously. and i mean massive prizes for each victory past the third round. Plus they should give it a champions league place.

I've got a Mike Parryesque crazy idea which may just work.

If you win the FA cup you gain +15 league points +10 for second and +5 for the semi finalists +3 for the quarters +1 last 16 for whichever league you're in,

Now that'd make everyone try.

The league is so much more important, so lets tie the fa cup into it.

[MarcusX]

If you've ever been part of a non league team that makes it to the first round (or further), trust me you'll know the cup is still alive.

[Andy082005]

Until the cup is made financially worthwhile it won't be taken seriously. and i mean massive prizes for each victory past the third round. Plus they should give it a champions league place.

I've got a Mike Parryesque crazy idea which may just work.

If you win the FA cup you gain +15 league points +10 for second and +5 for the semi finalists +3 for the quarters +1 last 16 for whichever league you're in,

Now that'd make everyone try.

The league is so much more important, so lets tie the fa cup into it.

I totally agree with your first two lines. Give the FA Cup winners a Champions League spot.....I mean for christ sake, if you finish fourth you get in it these days, hardly an achievement is it!

As for the rest what you say.......no comment :noexpression:

[Redhyde]

If you've ever been part of a non league team that makes it to the first round (or further), trust me you'll know the cup is still alive.

Was listening to the manager of chasetown, he said while it was great financially and of incredible importance, he'd swap it for promotion.

Edit - I have a genuine question for oldies . I'm too young to actually ever remember caring about the cup, why was it such a big deal?

I mean it's great to giant kill like we did to Cov last season but that was ultimately irrelevant. Surely it's only magical to clubs that have no hope progressing? While it may be amazing for Rovers to beat Fulham, we hope to compete with, then surpass them as a club so it wouldn't feel spectacular.

My best Fa cup memory is Tony Thorpe's equaliser in the 95th minute of 94 at home, utter relief and elation. Perhaps because i haven't experienced a major cup upset in my memory i'm just not as warm to it.

[MarcusX]

As a player, and a supporter, it is brilliant, theres nothing like it...

[Barrs Court Red]

Was listening to the manager of chasetown, he said while it was great financially and of incredible importance, he'd swap it for promotion.

Indeed. Hearing about the rise of Chasetown was amazing. Full credit to them.

As a player, and a supporter, it is brilliant, theres nothing like it...

For non-league teams, and lower league teams I'm sure this is true. But lets face it, the higher you go the less important it is.

[MarcusX]

Indeed. Hearing about the rise of Chasetown was amazing. Full credit to them.

For non-league teams, and lower league teams I'm sure this is true. But lets face it, the higher you go the less important it is.

Yea sorry, i was replying to Redhyde about Chasetown.

[BCFC @ Herts]

I think television has helped to devalue the FA cup. When I first started watching City you saw little of the big teams on tv, with just a couple of games on MOTD or one on itv on Sunday. So drawing a top team was a chance to see quality players in action. Now highlights of every match is readily available so it is nothing special to watch the big names play.

My best FA cup memory, City v Leeds 1974, stood in the East End in a crowd of 37,000 you could get your hands up to clap but then had trouble getting them down again as it was so packed. Fantastic atmosphere!

[Nibor]

Was listening to the manager of chasetown, he said while it was great financially and of incredible importance, he'd swap it for promotion.

Edit - I have a genuine question for oldies . I'm too young to actually ever remember caring about the cup, why was it such a big deal?

I mean it's great to giant kill like we did to Cov last season but that was ultimately irrelevant. Surely it's only magical to clubs that have no hope progressing? While it may be amazing for Rovers to beat Fulham, we hope to compete with, then surpass them as a club so it wouldn't feel spectacular.

My best Fa cup memory is Tony Thorpe's equaliser in the 95th minute of 94 at home, utter relief and elation. Perhaps because i haven't experienced a major cup upset in my memory i'm just not as warm to it.

Beating Coventry ain't giant killing, us beating Liverpool was. Altrincham beating Birmingham, Wrexham beating Arsenal, that sort of monumentally unlikely result. There was nothing quite like watching a conference side kick the shit out of a Premiership team on a pitch that looked like the Somme.

The problem with today's FA cup is that sort of thing just doesn't happen enough because the gap is too big. You used to get one of those sort of results every other round and it was national news when it happened. We're talking first teams too - it wasn't a squad game - nowadays it happens only when the Prem club plays their thirds.

The FA cup was special, it's the oldest competition in football and it's open to everyone - the dream is there for every amateur club to compete in it one against a big side one day. English clubs weren't in Europe for 5 years in the 80s, that was when I started watching football a lot and the cups were the only variation. Watching Gazza in a Spurs shirt during their cup runs and Palace with Wright and Bright up front against Liverpool was a great switch from the league, seeing Wimbledon lift a trophy was surreal.

It's not special any more. It's been marginalised by the massive money available in other competitions, clubs that are owned by people who aren't interested in football for football's sake view it as a waste of a slot on the calendar. Once the big clubs stopped taking it seriously that devalued it for everyone else.

I agree entirely with giving the winners the European place, and with upping the prize money particularly in the earlier rounds, but I doubt it will rekindle the competition much, just upset Benitez and a few owners. Maybe it's a case of nostalgia not being what it used to be, but the game now is ruled by a small number of very rich people who have their own interests at heart.

[Blagdon red]

As an aside, and going back to Moomin's first point about attendances at the weekend, I notice that the second highest gate of the round for a club playing a team from a lower division was nearly 20,000 at Norwich for their home tie against lowly (League 2) Bury.

Guess how they achieved such a big crowd!

Adult admission prices starting from £12.

Evidence, once again, that price plays a big part in whether or not people go to matches.

[Chivs]

Beating Coventry ain't giant killing, us beating Liverpool was. Altrincham beating Birmingham, Wrexham beating Arsenal, that sort of monumentally unlikely result. There was nothing quite like watching a conference side kick the shit out of a Premiership team on a pitch that looked like the Somme.

The problem with today's FA cup is that sort of thing just doesn't happen enough because the gap is too big. You used to get one of those sort of results every other round and it was national news when it happened. We're talking first teams too - it wasn't a squad game - nowadays it happens only when the Prem club plays their thirds.

The FA cup was special, it's the oldest competition in football and it's open to everyone - the dream is there for every amateur club to compete in it one against a big side one day. English clubs weren't in Europe for 5 years in the 80s, that was when I started watching football a lot and the cups were the only variation. Watching Gazza in a Spurs shirt during their cup runs and Palace with Wright and Bright up front against Liverpool was a great switch from the league, seeing Wimbledon lift a trophy was surreal.

It's not special any more. It's been marginalised by the massive money available in other competitions, clubs that are owned by people who aren't interested in football for football's sake view it as a waste of a slot on the calendar. Once the big clubs stopped taking it seriously that devalued it for everyone else.

I agree entirely with giving the winners the European place, and with upping the prize money particularly in the earlier rounds, but I doubt it will rekindle the competition much, just upset Benitez and a few owners. Maybe it's a case of nostalgia not being what it used to be, but the game now is ruled by a small number of very rich people who have their own interests at heart.

Part of the magic of the Cup was that it was the only day when you could watch live football on the TV. As a kid this was just fantastic. Nowadays the FA Cup Final is just another Sky game involving one of the big four. It's interesting that you say the big clubs don't take it seriously yet they nearly always win the Cup. I guess this shows the huge cap between the big four and the rest of us.

As an aside, and going back to Moomin's first point about attendances at the weekend, I notice that the second highest gate of the round for a club playing a team from a lower division was nearly 20,000 at Norwich for their home tie against lowly (League 2) Bury.

Guess how they achieved such a big crowd!

Adult admission prices starting from £12.

Evidence, once again, that price plays a big part in whether or not people go to matches.

This is far too simplistic an analysis I'm sure the club have "initiatives" that wil increase attendance whilst not for a moment recognising their balls up with the prices.

[swindlered]

But lets face it, the higher you go the less important it is.

Not sure how true that is as Alex Ferguson put out a good team against Villa and they're top of the league. Even Arsenal put out a semblance of a side against Burnley. I'm not too worried about losing to Middlesborough because of our fantastic league position but if we were lower down with little chance of making the play-offs a cup run would be about the only excitement between now and May and losing to Boro more disappointing.

To follow on from the Dave Kitson debate as a fan would you rather have ten seasons spent in the lower half of the Prem or one FA Cup win followed by relegation to the Championship?

[Red to the world]

Indeed. Hearing about the rise of Chasetown was amazing. Full credit to them.

For non-league teams, and lower league teams I'm sure this is true. But lets face it, the higher you go the less important it is.

Interesting post !

Many years ago I played for Bath City ( then Southern league ) in an FA Cup game away to Notts County.

We won 1 - 0 with a goal scored by Joe O'Neill - Charlie Fleming and Ian Black amongst others were playing.

We made headlines on the back pages of every Sunday paper for our giant killing act and the fans were orgasmic ( for about a fortnight ).

Then we lost next round, back to reality and didn't even make much money !!

Having said that, even at my old age I can still remember how wonderful it was on the day - perhaps that was the magic - a very average player in the limelight, even if only for a little while.

Two years from now no one will remember this seasons giant killers but those that played for them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

Quite what that means I really don't know.............??

[Nibor]

Interesting post !

Many years ago I played for Bath City ( then Southern league ) in an FA Cup game away to Notts County.

We won 1 - 0 with a goal scored by Joe O'Neill - Charlie Fleming and Ian Black amongst others were playing.

We made headlines on the back pages of every Sunday paper for our giant killing act and the fans were orgasmic ( for about a fortnight ).

Then we lost next round, back to reality and didn't even make much money !!

Having said that, even at my old age I can still remember how wonderful it was on the day - perhaps that was the magic - a very average player in the limelight, even if only for a little while.

Two years from now no one will remember this seasons giant killers but those that played for them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

Quite what that means I really don't know.............??

I'm jealous Rod, that's a fantastic memory to have. That's what the FA cup should be all about and I wish it still was.

[Red to the world]

I'm jealous Rod, that's a fantastic memory to have. That's what the FA cup should be all about and I wish it still was.

Funny Nibor - I can recite the team:

Black

Book ( Tony later Man City )

Mc Farlane

Hale ( ex Gas)

Scott

Meadows

Myself

Fleming

Wilshire ( ex Bristol City )

O'Neill

Wring

How many people would remember a team from over 45 years ago ?

You are right - those were the days when the Cup meant something - but then nostalgia is a bitter sweet pill !

I got £15 a week and washed my own kit............enough said.

[Alex_BCFC]

The importance of the FA Cup usually rests on where you are in the league. If you are in the top 6 you tend to care less about it than if you are in mid-table obscurity.

And obviously for any teams in financial trouble or the lower leagues it can be the most important thing.

It has probably gone down in importance for most teams in the past 15 years because of the ridiculous sums of money in football now but it still has its charms- - look at the Oldham, Huddersfield and Havant ties. It is still an important competition and will remain so- possibly for different reasons though.

[Chessels Chick]

Interesting post !

Many years ago I played for Bath City ( then Southern league ) in an FA Cup game away to Notts County.

We won 1 - 0 with a goal scored by Joe O'Neill - Charlie Fleming and Ian Black amongst others were playing.

We made headlines on the back pages of every Sunday paper for our giant killing act and the fans were orgasmic ( for about a fortnight ).

Then we lost next round, back to reality and didn't even make much money !!

Having said that, even at my old age I can still remember how wonderful it was on the day - perhaps that was the magic - a very average player in the limelight, even if only for a little while.

Two years from now no one will remember this seasons giant killers but those that played for them will remember it for the rest of their lives.

Quite what that means I really don't know.............??

Met a chap a couple of years ago who had played for Chichester City in the FA Cup first round against City. Played in defence too so no wonder it stuck in his mind (we won 11-0 for those youngsters out there!). He said it was an amazing experience to play at a professional ground - even though it was men against boys. Was dead impressed by big John that day

[Guest BRFC_Gas]

Look at the attendances across the board yesterday. The only places that come close to selling out were Spurs, Ipswich and West Ham. I speaks volumes when Aston Villa don't get a full house against Man U, we get bigger crowds for league games and only 4,000 bother wo watch Preston!

We've fallen into line with the continent, where the league and Europe is what capture the public imagination, to national cups.

Glad we went out, the cup is just a sideshow to the main event for us - The Championship.

It always is better to be out of the cup when you're already out eh!!

Wonder if you'd have still said that if you won and drew Arsenal away in the next round...

[Nibor]

It always is better to be out of the cup when you're already out eh!!

Wonder if you'd have still said that if you won and drew Arsenal away in the next round...

Not something you need to worry your little head about.

[Bristolface]

Was listening to the manager of chasetown, he said while it was great financially and of incredible importance, he'd swap it for promotion.

Edit - I have a genuine question for oldies . I'm too young to actually ever remember caring about the cup, why was it such a big deal?

I mean it's great to giant kill like we did to Cov last season but that was ultimately irrelevant. Surely it's only magical to clubs that have no hope progressing? While it may be amazing for Rovers to beat Fulham, we hope to compete with, then surpass them as a club so it wouldn't feel spectacular.

My best Fa cup memory is Tony Thorpe's equaliser in the 95th minute of 94 at home, utter relief and elation. Perhaps because i haven't experienced a major cup upset in my memory i'm just not as warm to it.

All I can say is in 93 being let of of school early by my City supporting teacher, to get in my older mates car and drive to the gate picking up other friends on the way to get the bus to Anfield for the replay. And the game that followed will live with me forever. Can close my eye's and be back there with 7000 other city fan's watching Tin-mans goal go in. When my mate got married who drove us that day, at the moment he did his speach he said it was the 2nd best day of his life, after that game and the memorys we all have from it.

I'm not gutted to be out against Boro rather swap places with them come 5th may but a good cup run always is good bit of fun and raise's the profile further of the club

[double-trouble]

It always is better to be out of the cup when you're already out eh!!

Wonder if you'd have still said that if you won and drew Arsenal away in the next round...

Be playing Arsenal twice next season alongwith plenty of other class sides new to us .

Morecombe on the other hand will be a new venue for you.

[Guest MaloneFM]

Maybe dead for some but not for us.

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