The Johnsons

[samo]

[cinker]

At the risk of repeating myself from another post, let me firstly say I do not agree with boo'ing and verbal carnage. However, when a manager has a son on the team and he is played week in and week out as opposed to others, he better be one of the stars or else there will be criticism at all levels. GJ has to expect this. In one way he is setting up his own son to criticism and I think I remember even GJ mentioned something of the sort when he got SL to sign Lee.

again, i live in Canada and only see 2 games a year but from games I have seen IMO alex Russell was an all round better player than Lee. From what others have said Carle should be playing in Lee's spot. i am not condemning the situation just getting to the point that Lee may not be a star or above average and this may be striking the criticsm. from games I have seen Lee does work hard and does not deserve the personalized attacks.

It does all come down to that GJ has done us proud. He is new in the Championship for managing, he is learning and does make some mistakes but seems to put them right. I believe he is a better manager and motivator than say pulis or Laws but is he aggressive enough and stern enough to bring in the right players if our dream is to get promoted. He has shown he can be on occassions i.e. Jevons, myrie Williams etc.. I was a bit disappointed that we did not pick up a "finisher" in the transfer window which I think we need. (IMHO). Some other teams are stronger now in the finishing category.

[dezgimed]

If they both leave, is it Gary then Lee who follows by any chance?

[MarcusX]

At the risk of repeating myself from another post, let me firstly say I do not agree with boo'ing and verbal carnage. However, when a manager has a son on the team and he is played week in and week out as opposed to others, he better be one of the stars or else there will be criticism at all levels. GJ has to expect this. In one way he is setting up his own son to criticism and I think I remember even GJ mentioned something of the sort when he got SL to sign Lee.

again, i live in Canada and only see 2 games a year but from games I have seen IMO alex Russell was an all round better player than Lee. From what others have said Carle should be playing in Lee's spot. i am not condemning the situation just getting to the point that Lee may not be a star or above average and this may be striking the criticsm. from games I have seen Lee does work hard and does not deserve the personalized attacks.

It does all come down to that GJ has done us proud. He is new in the Championship for managing, he is learning and does make some mistakes but seems to put them right. I believe he is a better manager and motivator than say pulis or Laws but is he aggressive enough and stern enough to bring in the right players if our dream is to get promoted. He has shown he can be on occassions i.e. Jevons, myrie Williams etc.. I was a bit disappointed that we did not pick up a "finisher" in the transfer window which I think we need. (IMHO). Some other teams are stronger now in the finishing category.

Not being funny mate but theres no way you've seen enough off Lee Johnson in 2 games a year to judge him.

I completely agree with your first paragraph..... however i would say that Lee actually IS one of the stars of the team

[cinker]

Not being funny mate but theres no way you've seen enough off Lee Johnson in 2 games a year to judge him.

I completely agree with your first paragraph..... however i would say that Lee actually IS one of the stars of the team

Fair comment. Then enlightem me, if he is that good where is the negativity coming from in your opinion.

[MarcusX]

Fair comment. Then enlightem me, if he is that good where is the negativity coming from in your opinion.

From people who only see the bad things he does....

Its easy to judge someone when they misplace a pass, its not so easy to praise someone on the amount of running they do, how many passes they make, and how many times he actually touches the ball.

I'm sure i seen posted somewhere that LJ actually, according to prozone, covers the most ground in the team.

You very rarely see him get dispossesed to be fair, and you very rarely see him give away simple passes. He normally gives the ball away playing the "killer" ball.... but he deserves praising for trying it (even when he knows how much stick he gets when it goes wrong)

[tinman-is-god]

If they walked out on this club of ours. It has to be said the constant battering of LJ yet again Saturday even though (Apart from Adebola) the whole team was poor LJ once again gets picked out.

I would not blame GJ or LJ for going to SL today and saying right were off. We got this team to within touching distance of the Premier League and some of the fans just do not appreciate what we are achieving and for that reason I feel that I have taken them as far as I can.

Once he does go I hope the boo boys and the constant negativity thrown at the team that currently sit 3rd from top and not 3rd from bottom will be proud of what they have achieved.

I know we pay money to watch games and I hurt as much as the next person but there is no point getting on a players back if he has not performed and no point cheering when a player is substitued what a great feeling that will be for the player. So we have 16 games left if you want to just slate GJ or Boo LJ for those 16 games stay away.

If you want to cheer City onwards and upwards then do it and when we are down remain positive and keep sheering the team on.

Up the city and keep up the good work boys

I agree, if they left tommorrow i think they would have every right to blame the fans as the reason. Also, Pete Johnson does great scouting work, by all accounts Marvin Elliot was signed due to him and he has been behind many great signings for us.

[Kibs]

Not that bothered either way to be honest. I don't dislike LJ and I don't think he is a star in our team.

A couple of questions though to all the people who do rate him so highly - Do you think his stats of 4 assists and 1 goal in 30 odd league games is enough for an attacking midfielder who also takes a fair share of set pieces?

We havent seen enough of him yet but from what we have seen so far - Nick Carle appears to have everything good that LJ has eg passing ability and skill but he also has something LJ hasnt got - Strength on the ball, strong in the tackle, Abit of pace and he is good in the air. Do you not think that he deserves a chance in his favoured central midfield role?

Oh and for the record - I don't for one minute believe that LJ is picked just because he is the managers son.

[Gaffer]

I'm pretty sure WINKER is a typo. What a tool.

As many have said before, the facts back LJ who has been instrumental in our climb to the top of the Championship. He has also been in an excellent run of form recently too, even the last game against Blackpool he was MOM. How LJ is getting stick after the perfomances of Vasko McCombe Elliott McIndoe and especially Byfield is beyond me. Scapegoat is the only phrase that could define it.

Why do City fans overlook facts?? Constant players in our last two extremely successful seasons; Basso, Carey, Orr and Johnson. He can't play every game in a successful team and be useless! Wake up and smell the coffee...

[Roger Red Hat]

Not that bothered either way to be honest. I don't dislike LJ and I don't think he is a star in our team.

A couple of questions though to all the people who do rate him so highly - Do you think his stats of 4 assists and 1 goal in 30 odd league games is enough for an attacking midfielder who also takes a fair share of set pieces?

We havent seen enough of him yet but from what we have seen so far - Nick Carle appears to have everything good that LJ has eg passing ability and skill but he also has something LJ hasnt got - Strength on the ball, strong in the tackle, Abit of pace and he is good in the air.

And his father isn't the manager!

Do you not think that he deserves a chance in his favoured central midfield role?

Oh and for the record - I don't for one minute believe that LJ is picked just because he is the managers son.

I'm pretty sure WINKER is a typo. What a tool.

As many have said before, the facts back LJ who has been instrumental in our climb to the top of the Championship. He has also been in an excellent run of form recently too, even the last game against Blackpool he was MOM. How LJ is getting stick after the perfomances of Vasko McCombe Elliott McIndoe and especially Byfield is beyond me.

Remember, he's the managers son.

Scapegoat is the only phrase that could define it.

Why do City fans overlook facts??

Because they are incapable of thinking things through in a non prejudice way, for reasons I cant fathom.

Constant players in our last two extremely successful seasons; Basso, Carey, Orr and Johnson. He can't play every game in a successful team and be useless! Wake up and smell the coffee...

[Redturner]

I don't think Lee Johnson is a bad player and can produce quality at times. However i don't feel that he should start week in and week out and hardly ever get subbed as we have two good central midfielders in Noble and Carle who must deseve a chance in that role.

[bcfc_4_life]

I don't think Lee Johnson is a bad player and can produce quality at times. However i don't feel that he should start week in and week out and hardly ever get subbed as we have two good central midfielders in Noble and Carle who must deserve a chance in that role.

Hopefully Carle can give LJ this "competition" for partnering Elliot in the centre of our midfield, something that he hasn't really had although Noble is a great player he never really got the chance to partner Elliot in midfield which is kind of disappointing but its good to see him still around the squad.

[the prefect]

I don't post too often on here as (some here will know) I'm a Coventry City fan - naturalised here in the west country.

What I don't understand is why no-one looks at the level of achievement? When Gary Johnson and Lee joined, the club looked in danger of being relegated. A season and a half later, you've achieved one promotion and are now pushing for promotion into the Premier League.

From whatever angle you look at things the manager's judgement should be respected. The central midfield are a significant part of any team - among the most important as they influence how the team defend and attack. For my money, Lee Johnson has been ever-present in this 18 months of achievement so should be acknowledged as one of those responsible for it.

Whenever I've seen him play, he looks capable of playing at a higher level. Always available for the ball, he's a very good passer - a player whos distribution is key to the team's success. Missed passes are part of any midfielder's game - but do Liverpool fans place the same emphasis on failed passes for Steven Gerrard? No.

Anyone who knows the game will know that coaches will 'zone' the pitch into three... Defensive third is 'safety', attacking third is 'risk' and the central third a combination of the two depending on conditions.

Whether it's Lee or other players, you'll find your manager has coached the team to do the basics well and this is why the club is so well placed in the championship with a squad that (on paper at least) didn't suggest such highs could be achieved.

As for Lee Johnson - if you don't want him send him to the Ricoh Arena. Other clubs were interested when he signed for Bristol City - you guys should be grateful.

[Bristol Boy]

I've really started to question the mentality of some people on here who just seem to post constant and regular trash, people seem to be totally obliovous to how much the club has turned around and seem to have completely forgotton how recently the club was a in a terrible state and the progress that has been made due to Gary Johnson, yet still he is the subject of some horrible abuse that I can never recall a previous manager getting despite everything he's done for the club. Personally speaking I'd be suprised if he is still here this time next year and too be honest I couldn't blame him.

The comical thing for me is that purposrting to support LJ kick off 100% of these discussions and they'd be better off just shutting up!

I don't know how long you've been a City fan, however, over the years I've seen managers get about 500% more stick than GJ's ever had.I remember Terry Cooper and the players in the dressing room as windows were smashed and bottles thrown-That, thankfully is a thing of the past.The same applies to LJ who get's no more or less stick than many other players.

My opinion is that a combination of Nick Carle & Elliott with Skuse or Noble depending on whether you wanted to defend or attack more would be better.That's my opinion and others will differ.That doesn't mean I'm right or they're right, it's an opinion and footaballs all about opinions.It's not negative, It just differs from the manager who, whilst his acheivements are up there, isn't omnipotent.

We've never had it so good on or off the field.

It was better under Alan Dicks and when GJ get's us to the Prem, he'll be right up there with AD.

so it should be a Skuse/Carle midfield on saturday then?

Sproule, Elliott, Carle, McIndoe with Noble in the hole and one up top.

Not that bothered either way to be honest. I don't dislike LJ and I don't think he is a star in our team.

A couple of questions though to all the people who do rate him so highly - Do you think his stats of 4 assists and 1 goal in 30 odd league games is enough for an attacking midfielder who also takes a fair share of set pieces?

Stats don't lie

We havent seen enough of him yet but from what we have seen so far - Nick Carle appears to have everything good that LJ has eg passing ability and skill but he also has something LJ hasnt got - Strength on the ball, strong in the tackle, Abit of pace and he is good in the air. Do you not think that he deserves a chance in his favoured central midfield role?

Yes

Oh and for the record - I don't for one minute believe that LJ is picked just because he is the managers son.

The problem is, that will always haunt both of them.Unfair perhaps, but a commonly held view is that LJ will never be dropped.

As many have said before, the facts back LJ who has been instrumental in our climb to the top of the Championship. He has also been in an excellent run of form recently too, even the last game against Blackpool he was MOM.

However, along with others, he was poor against Palace & QPR.

How LJ is getting stick after the perfomances of Vasko McCombe Elliott McIndoe and especially Byfield is beyond me. Scapegoat is the only phrase that could define it.

They've all had stick and so has Trundle.

Why do City fans overlook facts??

Like assists & goals?

Constant players in our last two extremely successful seasons; Basso, Carey, Orr and Johnson. He can't play every game in a successful team and be useless! Wake up and smell the coffee...

The questions are:

• Is he better than the competition for his place?
• Could we do better without him?
• Could our recent results have been better, particularly away, with Skuse,Noble or Carel in a central role

Ask them yourself.

I don't post too often on here as (some here will know) I'm a Coventry City fan - naturalised here in the west country.

We all have our cross to bear

What I don't understand is why no-one looks at the level of achievement? When Gary Johnson and Lee joined, the club looked in danger of being relegated. A season and a half later, you've achieved one promotion and are now pushing for promotion into the Premier League.

GJ's had plenty of recognition and I don't see your point.Should we applaud everything and never complain based on our League position and what's gone before? A poor performance and suggestions of something different is hadly ingratitude or revolt.

From whatever angle you look at things the manager's judgement should be respected. The central midfield are a significant part of any team - among the most important as they influence how the team defend and attack. For my money, Lee Johnson has been ever-present in this 18 months of achievement so should be acknowledged as one of those responsible for it.

However, we now have to move on and the squad at a progressive club will always be subject to change.

Whenever I've seen him play, he looks capable of playing at a higher level. Always available for the ball, he's a very good passer - a player whos distribution is key to the team's success. Missed passes are part of any midfielder's game - but do Liverpool fans place the same emphasis on failed passes for Steven Gerrard? No.

That's a very poor comparison and not relevant in any way.

Anyone who knows the game will know that coaches will 'zone' the pitch into three... Defensive third is 'safety', attacking third is 'risk' and the central third a combination of the two depending on conditions.

And? :noexpression:

Whether it's Lee or other players, you'll find your manager has coached the team to do the basics well and this is why the club is so well placed in the championship with a squad that (on paper at least) didn't suggest such highs could be achieved.

As for Lee Johnson - if you don't want him send him to the Ricoh Arena. Other clubs were interested when he signed for Bristol City - you guys should be grateful.

We are not worthy

[Spud55]

From people who only see the bad things he does....

Its easy to judge someone when they misplace a pass, its not so easy to praise someone on the amount of running they do, how many passes they make, and how many times he actually touches the ball.

I'm sure i seen posted somewhere that LJ actually, according to prozone, covers the most ground in the team.

You very rarely see him get dispossesed to be fair, and you very rarely see him give away simple passes. He normally gives the ball away playing the "killer" ball.... but he deserves praising for trying it (even when he knows how much stick he gets when it goes wrong)

Just covering ground or making passes on it's own doesn't mean anything though, you can run around all you want but if it has no end result then you may as well no be there, any full time athlete could run around as much as LJ, stick a fit rugby player out there and they could cover the ground, they'd still be shite though. Now i'm not saying LJ is crap as well frankly he isn't he's a solid championship player but without context stats alone mean absolutely nothing.

The reason People pick up on Lj's ability to give the ball away isn't because they dislike him and are looking for every mistake, nor is it the fact that he gives the ball away a lot, because he doesn't (or no moreso than anyone else really), neither is it because he's trying to play the killer ball as when those go wrong it rarely does any damage, trying to play that killer through ball and getting it wrong is rarely noticed. When recounting ay football game or any event you only really remember the things which were marked by some event or worry, and this is where Lj's misplaced passes (there aren't a whole load of them) mainly fall. In almost every single game i have seen Lj play there is one occasion where he puts us in danger with a stupid, misplaced pass, the sort of pass that isn't a difficult pass to make but one that can cause real trouble when it goes wrong. the amount of times when we are breaking forward and by the time Johnson plays the balls the vast majority of the side are beyond him, including the two full backs, meaning there are only 3 players between him and our goal, this is when he gives the ball away, and he's not trying to play the killer ball here, he's just playing a simple, quick ball, a ball that a midfielder of his ability should be able to play in his sleep.

Most of the time he just opts to play the ball sideways, which breaks down the move and looses us any advantage that the break may have given us, but does no real harm so that goes unnoticed, sometimes he plays the ball forwards and we keep going and look as if we may do something interesting, and then occasionally he buggers it up and you suddenly have 3-4 attackers all bearing down on Lj (who for all his strengths, couldn't tackle his way out of a wet paper bag) and then our 2 centre backs, with everyone else having to do a swift 180 and run their nuts off to get back into position, it's these passes that get remembered, and it when these go wrong that you hear the groans and moans, and it's when these go wrong that we concede from at times or are bailed out by the defenders or Basso or let of by the opposition.

When Johnson has the time he's a very good player, and at home against the middle to lower sides in the championship he's fine and a great asset, the teeams that sit off us and allow him the time to make his passes, then it's all good, but against the top 8-10 sides who are looking to go up to the prem and either like WBA, Charlton, Watfford are already playing at the pace of the premiership game, or the rest who play at not quite the same pace but close to it, he does seem to struggle to make his passes, when sides are not only quality but are getting in our faces and harrying us for the ball Lj seems to shrink when he's alone with ME in the middle. When he's got another player in midfield who can take the creative load off his mind a bit he plays well no matter who it's against. Most of the most sumptious and top quality games Johnson had had have been when Noble has been in the side, it seems to me that Lee puts far too muhc pressure on himself when that other outlet isn't there, which does cause him to lapse at the most inopportune moments.

The way i look at it if we are to be a solid upper mid table Championship side we can play a 4-4-2 with LJ and Me in the middle, however if we are to progress we either have to switch permanently to a 4-5-1/ 4-4-1-1 which we can do but it needs some work with Sproule inparticular as mcIndoe can play the role of a winger in that formation, basically doubling up as the second striker when the ball is on the right, but Sproule doesn't seem to do it as well when the ball is out on the left. Or if we are to go with a 4-4-2 then either Carle/noble should probably come in for Lj or we find someone else to play alongside Me. I'd prefer the 4-5-1 because Lj in his element has a massive amount to offer at the top end of the championship, and that formation if used well can be devestating as you are basically when attacking playing a 4-3-3-1.

There is definately a place for LJ in the side in my eyes but for me that isn't as the only creative midfielder in the side.

[CiderJar]

In my opinion Lee Johnson has upped his game considerably since the arrival of Nick Carle. As Gary Johnson says, "Nuffink wrong with a bit of competition". When Nick Carle was taken off Lee Johnson played a lot better. When playing together, Carle supposedly had the right wing role but clearly is more naturally suited to the centre. The two of them got in each others way and confused each others runs and we gave the ball away too often. It was noticeable how much control we had when Carle went off and the ball was channeled through Little Lee. Add to that his free kick that was tipped over and the one previous to that that ultimately set up a free header for Jamie McCombe and he had a half decent game (despite a bit of a mess up for the 2nd goal). He even got a header on target and was disappointed with himself for not scoring.

We play a more balanced 4-4-2 with a genuine right winger, whether that is Sproule or Scott Murray (and where is he by the way?). I'd like to see Carle and Elliott in the middle on Saturday with Lee Johnson on the bench for a well earned rest. Marvellous Marvin could be rested at some point too. We have Skuse who can operate in his position (or else why have him in the squad?) and we have Noble who could play in front of Carle or Johnson if we want a more attack minded formation. I think we are well covered in midfield and that Gary should not be afraid to mix it up a bit. He has been quite happy to mess around with the strikers, why not the midfield?

As for the boo boys "Sshhhhh!". Johnson's must stay! Good topic Pete1975Legend, not a Johnson by any chance are you?

[Stephen Lewis]

I doubt the opinions of a small minority, (if thats what it is ), give either of the Johnson's a sleepless night.

It wouldn't me if I was in one of their pairs of boots.

[Jordan Tansley]

In all honesty i have never really been a LJ fan, i have always believed there have been better options in the squad, and i do not like the managers seemingly biased team selection, however i am a city fan and i believe that whoever pulls on the shirt deserves my wholehearted support.

and credit where credit is due, IMO LJ has been in much better form since christmas and city aren't exactly struggling with the little man in the team are we

lets get behind the lads and give this city what it deserves, a premiership club

[Hicksy-BCFC]

In all honesty i have never really been a LJ fan, i have always believed there have been better options in the squad, and i do not like the managers seemingly biased team selection, however i am a city fan and i believe that whoever pulls on the shirt deserves my wholehearted support.

and credit where credit is due, IMO LJ has been in much better form since christmas and city aren't exactly struggling with the little man in the team are we

lets get behind the lads and give this city what it deserves, a premiership club

I'm pretty similar.

I have always based any argument I have on the team on player performance and player ability.

I always thought last season that David Noble was the most gifted midfielder at the club, his ball retention and passing was superb. Yet LJ always seemed to get picked above him or Noble would play in a role that fitted him into the team rather than in central mid.

A lot of the Lee Johnson debates are on here tend to fall into the rabidly for him or the very anti-LJ based on him being the manager's son.

I have always tried to stay out of those as my points are based on football and I find no cause with either side.

However much I think a player should not be in the team, when the whistle blows and when they run onto the pitch they get my 100%. Even though I always thought Betsy was horsemuck I would still cheer him on to take the man on!!!! Although the night he put it wide at S****horpe from about 2 yards and nearly hit me behind the goal had me straining to hold my opinions in!

I have had an exchange of opinions in the Williams stand last season with one of our less than encouraging supporters on the very subject of LJ.

Anyway on LJ.

Personally, as I have said on a couple of other occasions, I am a believer in picking the best 11 on the pitch on the day. If this meant Gary picked his entire family, if they were the best at the club so be it.

I disagreed with the selections of our defenders on saturday who frankly were League One. I disagreed with LJ in the middle.

He is too small to compete when we're getting overrun, when he is getting knocked around his confidence goes and his one redeeming skill of passing goes to pot.

With the signing of Carle, we will see whether a Carle=Elliott combination gets an opportunity.

The crux of my opinion is that on footballing ability and performance I do not believe Lee Johnson should be in the side on saturday.

There are players who should get a chance in that role. Nick Carle at least.