Manchester Derby Yesterday

[bernie from barrow gurney]

I was lucky enough to get tickets to yesterdays game at Old Trafford, sat in illustrious seats with well to do United fans, but used to go to Maine Road when i was at college so was rooting for City..it was a brilliant brilliant match. The Man City away fans were incredible and for 8 or 9000 against 68000 Man U fans totally outsung them all game. Every Man U fan to a man and woman looked like they had chewed wasps nests - and about a third had walked out by full time.

But oh my god, how amazing would it be to be in the away end as BRISTOL CITY fan - playing against no half hearted Man U cup team cobbled together with youth players and has beens like they put out in the League cup but a proper full strength side with truly world class players.

I have been struggling about whether I would enjoy a season in the Prem watching City struggle to compete. But after yesterday and seeing the east enders "Boinging" after the goals I cant wait to get to Emirates, Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Old Trafford, White Hart lane and join in the singing win or lose. So please god, SL and GJ please please please do all you can to get us up. I don't even care about the money we earn. Even if we go back down it will be a season to savour just for the experience of all those amazing grounds and a lot of really great days and weekends away.

By the way , I was at Saturdays game as well, and compared to Man U who had a least 30 misplaced passes our performance against Wednesday we were a class (better!) apart. We groan when LJ makes one mistake - well Ronaldo, Scoles, Tevez and Giggs were truly crap and couldnt pass to save their lives! We don't know we are born! However i thought Benjani was just awesome, causing no end of problems and heres hoping GJ can turn Dele into something even slightly resembling him...

[Guest Garfunkle]

the comparison of benjani to adebola just lost your post a lot of credibility

[bernie from barrow gurney]

the comparison of benjani to adebola just lost your post a lot of credibility

yeah cheers for that - a. who cares b. it was a joke

[downendcity]

I was lucky enough to get tickets to yesterdays game at Old Trafford, sat in illustrious seats with well to do United fans, but used to go to Maine Road when i was at college so was rooting for City..it was a brilliant brilliant match. The Man City away fans were incredible and for 8 or 9000 against 68000 Man U fans totally outsung them all game. Every Man U fan to a man and woman looked like they had chewed wasps nests - and about a third had walked out by full time.

But oh my god, how amazing would it be to be in the away end as BRISTOL CITY fan - playing against no half hearted Man U cup team cobbled together with youth players and has beens like they put out in the League cup but a proper full strength side with truly world class players.

I have been struggling about whether I would enjoy a season in the Prem watching City struggle to compete. But after yesterday and seeing the east enders "Boinging" after the goals I cant wait to get to Emirates, Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Old Trafford, White Hart lane and join in the singing win or lose. So please god, SL and GJ please please please do all you can to get us up. I don't even care about the money we earn. Even if we go back down it will be a season to savour just for the experience of all those amazing grounds and a lot of really great days and weekends away.

By the way , I was at Saturdays game as well, and compared to Man U who had a least 30 misplaced passes our performance against Wednesday we were a class (better!) apart. We groan when LJ makes one mistake - well Ronaldo, Scoles, Tevez and Giggs were truly crap and couldnt pass to save their lives! We don't know we are born! However i thought Benjani was just awesome, causing no end of problems and heres hoping GJ can turn Dele into something even slightly resembling him...

I have admiration for anyone who can put Ronaldo, Sc(h)oles. Tevez and Giggs in the same sentence, bracket them together as "utter crap" and then qualify the statement with " we don't know we are born". I'm just wondering which of our current players would keep any of these 4 out of the City first team - McIndoe for Giggs at a push? Having thought about it, Johnson jnr would probably keep Scholes out ( but only because Gary might pick a shortarse but surely he would never pick a ginger?!)

One of them must be close to being the best player in the world ( Ronaldo). Giggs and Scholes might be nearing the end of their careers, but have won just about everything there is in the European game at club level and have been at the very centre of all Fergusons acheivements during the last decade, and Ferguson wouldn't pick players for sentimental reasons. Tevez is'nt half bad either and would get into virtually any premiership team.

They might have had on off day, but "utter crap" might be overtstating things a little. I also have a funny feeling that Man City might have been slightly tougher opposition than Sheff Wed were.

[BrotherErnieFromBarrowGurney]

Bernie??

[bernie from barrow gurney]

I have admiration for anyone who can put Ronaldo, Sc(h)oles. Tevez and Giggs in the same sentence, bracket them together as "utter crap" and then qualify the statement with " we don't know we are born". I'm just wondering which of our current players would keep any of these 4 out of the City first team - McIndoe for Giggs at a push? Having thought about it, Johnson jnr would probably keep Scholes out ( but only because Gary might pick a shortarse but surely he would never pick a ginger?!)

One of them must be close to being the best player in the world ( Ronaldo). Giggs and Scholes might be nearing the end of their careers, but have won just about everything there is in the European game at club level and have been at the very centre of all Fergusons acheivements during the last decade, and Ferguson wouldn't pick players for sentimental reasons. Tevez is'nt half bad either and would get into virtually any premiership team.

They might have had on off day, but "utter crap" might be overtstating things a little. I also have a funny feeling that Man City might have been slightly tougher opposition than Sheff Wed were.

well I was there, I am lucky enough to watch probably over 40 live games a season all over the world (this season = Real Madrid, Milan, Paris, Bordeaux, Munich, Manchester - and Bristol) and in my considered opinion they were all highly ineffective. Fair enough, Man City were extremely well organised, Hamman was immense - but Ronaldo had a childish hissy fit, Giggs didnt complete a pass and every time Tevez got the ball Mica Richards took it off him.

Yes even an off day Man U would probably crap all over us, but for team spirit and effective play we gave the better show this weekend.

[bernie from barrow gurney]

Bernie??

yes cousin? havent seen you down the Motto recently?

[Chappers]

Yawn! Unfortunately, much of the Premiership is just plain dull. If we go up, let's all try and guess who will be the top 4. Relegation, City, the 2 other promoted teams, Reading, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland. Sky high prices, we'll probably get in a few mercenaries who will leave once we are relegated. Oh joy. Soon it won't just be a question of not being able to work out what day and what time we will be kicking off, but also what Continent we are playing in! Sorry, I can't get too excited... Besides, I always call it the 'Greed League' - How can I retain any credibility if I start watching it?

[Hicksy-BCFC]

Yawn! Unfortunately, much of the Premiership is just plain dull. If we go up, let's all try and guess who will be the top 4. Relegation, City, the 2 other promoted teams, Reading, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland. Sky high prices, we'll probably get in a few mercenaries who will leave once we are relegated. Oh joy. Soon it won't just be a question of not being able to work out what day and what time we will be kicking off, but also what Continent we are playing in! Sorry, I can't get too excited... Besides, I always call it the 'Greed League' - How can I retain any credibility if I start watching it?

Agree with that.

Not that I was ever one of those kids that had another team but I used to sit and watch top division football.

Remember the Liverpool teams with Souness, Dalgleish, Rush and co? Howard Kendall's Everton?

Used to enjoy watching it then.

Pre-Sky who have now ruined the game with all the money and foreign mercenaries.

[RED4LIFE]

Yawn! Unfortunately, much of the Premiership is just plain dull. If we go up, let's all try and guess who will be the top 4. Relegation, City, the 2 other promoted teams, Reading, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland. Sky high prices, we'll probably get in a few mercenaries who will leave once we are relegated. Oh joy. Soon it won't just be a question of not being able to work out what day and what time we will be kicking off, but also what Continent we are playing in! Sorry, I can't get too excited... Besides, I always call it the 'Greed League' - How can I retain any credibility if I start watching it?

Agree with that.

Not that I was ever one of those kids that had another team but I used to sit and watch top division football.

Remember the Liverpool teams with Souness, Dalgleish, Rush and co? Howard Kendall's Everton?

Used to enjoy watching it then.

Pre-Sky who have now ruined the game with all the money and foreign mercenaries.

Now I grew up loving that Liverpool side of the 80's but to say Sky have ruined the game is just plain wrong imo.

Without Sky, we wouldnt have had the joys of watching the Bergkamps, Gullits, Zolas, and Ronaldos of this world.

Without Sky we would have had to make do with watching one , maybe two games a week on TV instead of the choice we get nowadays.

Without Sky, we (probably) wouldnt be having a new stadium built to lure in more fans for more money, because the interest from 'casuals' wouldnt be there. We were still in the post-Heysel age then.

don't get me wrong, Sky has a lot to answer for like changed fixture times, footballing mercernaries (then again what about Dinning?), the frankly ridiculous idea of playing abroad, inflated wages, inflated prices for fans etc etc.

The thing is, apart from the changing of traditional fixture times, most of the above problems are exacerbated by the chairman of football clubs or the Premier League.

If anything Scudamore is more to blame than Rupert Murdoch.

[sephjnr]

Regardless of how sucky the Premiership is I wouldn't even consider boycotting it if City pulled off the impossible and reached it. I'll just be glad we did, and the parachute payment would fund our new stadium right off the bat and/or provide some heavier firepower the following season as we'll be in a much better position to know how both Prem and Champ sides work... provided we don't earn a second season. If you'd like proof of such a game-plan with 2 seasons of top-flight experience take a look at Reading in August, and another look in May '09.

[Chivs]

Now I grew up loving that Liverpool side of the 80's but to say Sky have ruined the game is just plain wrong imo.

I actually hated that Liverpool side. Hansen and Lawrenson were the reason for the professional foul being introduced. Souness was a dirty thug. Dagleish no better. There's the usual BBC Liverpool propaganda stating what a lovely bunch of players and fans they were. Events rather prove differently.

Without Sky, we wouldnt have had the joys of watching the Bergkamps, Gullits, Zolas, and Ronaldos of this world.

Players like Ardiles and Villa you mean?

Without Sky we would have had to make do with watching one , maybe two games a week on TV instead of the choice we get nowadays.

Without Sky, we (probably) wouldnt be having a new stadium built to lure in more fans for more money, because the interest from 'casuals' wouldnt be there. We were still in the post-Heysel age then.

I can't watch any live games without paying a fortune to Sky. The highlights are restricted to MOTD. When we were growing up you could watch MOTD and Championship (or equivalent) highlights. Sky has reduced the watching potential for many people.

don't get me wrong, Sky has a lot to answer for like changed fixture times, footballing mercernaries (then again what about Dinning?), the frankly ridiculous idea of playing abroad, inflated wages, inflated prices for fans etc etc.

Indeed! Although some of that is not Sky's fault. Sky don't make ManU pay ridiculous wages.

If anything Scudamore is more to blame than Rupert Murdoch.

Certainly the Greed League have to take a lot of the blame. Scudamore did make me laugh when he said recently "there is no debate that the Premier League has been good for English football".

Arsenal - no English players

England - semi-final World Cup before the Greed League

European Cup - regularly English winners before the Greed League

Division 1 - regular different winners before...

No debate at all....

[richwwtk]

Players like Ardiles and Villa you mean?

I can't watch any live games without paying a fortune to Sky. The highlights are restricted to MOTD. When we were growing up you could watch MOTD and Championship (or equivalent) highlights. Sky has reduced the watching potential for many people.

Arsenal - no English players

England - semi-final World Cup before the Greed League

European Cup - regularly English winners before the Greed League

Division 1 - regular different winners before...

No debate at all....

In Ardiles and Villa you have picked possibly the only two foreign players that were in the English league at the time, who knows? had there been a similar situation to today we would have seen Platini, Cruyff or any of a host of players that are now legendary.

Yes, you have to pay either Sky or Setanta to watch live games, but you were never able to watch live games before. A couple of seasons of ITV apart. The highlights packages are pretty much the same as they ever were.

The no english players argument I never quite understand. All it means is that the standard of the league has gone up with the imported players, meaning that fewer home grown players make the grade. The players that do make it are obviously of a high enough standard to live with the best in the world, whilst the players that don't make it aren't. I think our lack of competitive edge in internastional tournaments is more likely down to attitude than anything else, and would probably still be happening even if we had a 90% english league.

The national side were no better than they are now pre premier league. In fact, we qualify for final stages a lot more often since the formation of the premier league, probably backing up the argument that the league is good for english football. Not qualifying for euro2008 is surely a blip caused by picking a dogs arse of a manager, whilst in the pre premier league days we failed to qualify for the world cups in 1974, 1978 and 1994 (ok, post premier league I know but no time for effect to kick in) and the euro chamionships in 1992 (possibly earlier ones, not sure).

We won the European Cup more often in the pre Heysel days purely because English football had developed into a style that the european teams couldn't cope with. It was developed along power and pace more than tactics and skill. Our share of the spoils in European football is much more evenly split these days which only shows the spread of talent through the main leagues in europe now.

the regular winners argument holds a little more water, but if you look at the eighties it was dominated by Liverpool and Everton, with single wins for Forest and Villa (and Derby/Leeds if you go back to the seventies) but the list of premier league winners includes Man United, Arsenal, Blackburn and Chelsea and it's not always going to be just that. Football has always been dominated by two or three big clubs, it's a myth that it was ever any different. It's just that the clubs change over a few years, and the current crop will do so too. Quite often, it's just a case of having the right manager at the right time which transforms a club from almost there to fulfilling their potential. And it just takes a single wrong appointment to see a club fall from grace quite often - Souness at Liverpool for example.

The only real way that the Premier League and it's money has ruined football is in the experience for the fans, and that is as much the fault of Hillsbrough and the ignorant way in which the powers that be have responded to it more than anything else.

[bernie from barrow gurney]

Back to the point of my original thread:

I really hope we get promoted because going to away games is going to be brilliant fun, singing Drink up thy cider / one for the bristol city etc and jumping around for 2 hours, in stadiums such as Emirates, Old Trafford, Anfield, Stamford Bridge, not bothering if we win or not more that we are there, competing in the same league, and recognising how far we have come in such a short time.

Sky, money, murdoch, overseas matches, whoever, whatever will be completely irrelevant if we go up this season, I promise, as we'll be the proudest fans in the country and the eyes of the whole world will start to focus on our local football team.

Perhaps with exception of anfield, those grounds above's home support are normally quiet, dull, boring, sterile, uncomfortable and they only cheer when they score. I went to another Man U game vs Blackburn and i am not joking there were about 3 songs sung by the home fans (including Red Flag, and "United") all match, two when they scored and one when the blackburn fans were taunting them, "asleep in a minute, you'll be asleep in a minute" and lots of "sshhhh"

Even though there is not much more I can do about it personally, my new Years resolution for 2008 is to be in the south stand of Old Trafford with my City top on watching a game in the premier between City and United. I can assure everyone here that it will be one of life's highlights, so if there is an ounce of extra support we can muster to get us there, it's got to be worth doing.

Who cares if it attracts glory hunters - aren't many of us just grown up glory hunters from the 70s? Even now my 7 year old daughter doesnt have a single city fan in her south bristol class - and one of those boys is the son of a City employee! If we are on MOTD every week that will change, plus there is a good chance it will speed up the demise of the Blue Few as the floaters seen at wembley/cardiff each year will finally see the light and jump on board - and they should and must be welcomed.

I also pledge to pay for Ashton Yate's ticket, travel and overnight accomodation to manchester if we make it, provided he doesnt utter the two words "target man" during the match...

So everyone - let's start to believe - banish those worries and fears, it's in our hands, we can do it, it's almost ours to lose, 10 more wins will do it, let's get 100% behind the lads and sing our hearts out for these few final critically important games...

COME ON YOU REDS!!!!

[bernie from barrow gurney]

if City pulled off the impossible

why impossible? it's impossible for teams like shef wed and colchester, but at the moment it's down to 7 teams of which we are going to be one, and one in a strong position at that.

we have a really good chance and its time we started to all pull together for these final weeks.

[bernie from barrow gurney]

Yawn! Unfortunately, much of the Premiership is just plain dull.

It is on telly but if you go to the matches as an proud away supporter it isn't. ask a Pompey fan.

Wake up you lot! The giant has his eyes open but I can't believe its down to people like me to kick him out of bed...

WE MIGHT BE A PREMIERSHIP TEAM IN 3 MONTHS!!!!!

Anyone? Anyone? Is it just me???

[sephjnr]

why impossible? it's impossible for teams like shef wed and colchester, but at the moment it's down to 7 teams of which we are going to be one, and one in a strong position at that.

we have a really good chance and its time we started to all pull together for these final weeks.

Agreed, I just used it as a figure o' speech.

[Mr Mosquito]

The Man City away fans were incredible and for 8 or 9000 against 68000 Man U fans totally outsung them all game.

Manchester United were hardly ever outsung in the 1970's but often outplayed. Now they have more supporters and are often outsung but hardly ever outplayed. Man City haven't beaten them at Old Trafford in the league since 1974 when Man U were relegated?

[Jack(anowski)]

I was lucky enough to get tickets to yesterdays game at Old Trafford, sat in illustrious seats with well to do United fans, but used to go to Maine Road when i was at college so was rooting for City..it was a brilliant brilliant match. The Man City away fans were incredible and for 8 or 9000 against 68000 Man U fans totally outsung them all game. Every Man U fan to a man and woman looked like they had chewed wasps nests - and about a third had walked out by full time.

But oh my god, how amazing would it be to be in the away end as BRISTOL CITY fan - playing against no half hearted Man U cup team cobbled together with youth players and has beens like they put out in the League cup but a proper full strength side with truly world class players.

I have been struggling about whether I would enjoy a season in the Prem watching City struggle to compete. But after yesterday and seeing the east enders "Boinging" after the goals I cant wait to get to Emirates, Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Old Trafford, White Hart lane and join in the singing win or lose. So please god, SL and GJ please please please do all you can to get us up. I don't even care about the money we earn. Even if we go back down it will be a season to savour just for the experience of all those amazing grounds and a lot of really great days and weekends away.

By the way , I was at Saturdays game as well, and compared to Man U who had a least 30 misplaced passes our performance against Wednesday we were a class (better!) apart. We groan when LJ makes one mistake - well Ronaldo, Scoles, Tevez and Giggs were truly crap and couldnt pass to save their lives! We don't know we are born! However i thought Benjani was just awesome, causing no end of problems and heres hoping GJ can turn Dele into something even slightly resembling him...

Great post mate! I agree with your sentiments entirely. I can't believe the amount of negative responses you have got to this post. To detractors of bernie's post: I think this message was an optimistic, positive one reasoning that; regardless of how we fare, it will be a brilliant experience to visit some of the grounds next season if we make it. Anyone who calls it the 'greed league' or similar, and doesn't want to be part of it, your thinking is fundamentally flawed. If you don't want City to go up, why cheer a goal? It's only getting us closer to the 'greed league'.

For all the negatives of going up: more fair-weather supporters (as we have experienced in some away games this season, I'm thinking leaving after an hour at West Brom), higher prices, losing more games (which we should have expected this season), surely these are outweighed by the positives?!

[A Horse With No Name]

Yawn! Unfortunately, much of the Premiership is just plain dull. If we go up, let's all try and guess who will be the top 4. Relegation, City, the 2 other promoted teams, Reading, Wigan, Fulham, Birmingham, Sunderland. Sky high prices, we'll probably get in a few mercenaries who will leave once we are relegated. Oh joy. Soon it won't just be a question of not being able to work out what day and what time we will be kicking off, but also what Continent we are playing in! Sorry, I can't get too excited... Besides, I always call it the 'Greed League' - How can I retain any credibility if I start watching it?

So what you are basically saying is that, where we are now, at the top end of the Championship, is the height of your ambitions for this club, and that we have reached the pinnacle? Rubbish. However boring and dull the Premiership may be, we have to strive to get there, and once we are there, the next ambition is to stay there.