Police Escort Yesterday !

[BS3 Bemmy]

I went on the coach yesterday, leaving Ashton Gate at 10am.We stopped off at Corley service station for refreshments etc around 12 o'clock.We had to be back at the coach ready to leave by 12-45 as we had to meet up with all the other coaches and the police at a service station just outside of Leicester at 1-15. We got to the other service station exactly 1-14 to be greeted by 6 or 7 police on motorbikes and 1 police car. This is the bit that annoys me, the police kept all the coaches in this service station until 2-20, 1 hour and 5 minutes hanging around before they would escort us to the ground which was about 4-5 miles away.The police then escorted the coaches to the ground, blocking the roads off on our journey so we didnt stop at all, eventually getting to the ground at 2-40(no time for a beer ).Is this normal practice with the away fans when Leicester play at home, or was it because it was BCFC. I don't know what the residents must have thought seeing 8-9 coaches surrounded by all those police and roads being closed off for us. It certainly annoyed a lot of us supporters the way we were kept hanging around.

[Denilson]

What about from the pub haha, Sit down if you hate the gas! Priceless.

[Dollymarie]

Did the same thing when we went to Plymouth, and at other times this season when ive been on the coaches.

[Andy082005]

I went on the coach yesterday, leaving Ashton Gate at 10am.We stopped off at Corley service station for refreshments etc around 12 o'clock.We had to be back at the coach ready to leave by 12-45 as we had to meet up with all the other coaches and the police at a service station just outside of Leicester at 1-15. We got to the other service station exactly 1-14 to be greeted by 6 or 7 police on motorbikes and 1 police car. This is the bit that annoys me, the police kept all the coaches in this service station until 2-20, 1 hour and 5 minutes hanging around before they would escort us to the ground which was about 4-5 miles away.The police then escorted the coaches to the ground, blocking the roads off on our journey so we didnt stop at all, eventually getting to the ground at 2-40(no time for a beer ).Is this normal practice with the away fans when Leicester play at home, or was it because it was BCFC. I don't know what the residents must have thought seeing 8-9 coaches surrounded by all those police and roads being closed off for us. It certainly annoyed a lot of us supporters the way we were kept hanging around.

After the debacle that was Millwall last season, unless its a "bubble game" I will never use CATS again. When I go to an away game, I want a day out, and regardless of whether its down to poor police performance or not, when ever you seem to go on the CATS, I find I have had rubbish days out. I like to get to an away ground, go for a beer, maybe even have a few beers en route....get their early enough to check the place out, have a wander round the ground etc.

Unfortunately, police these days just want football fans in and out, and unfortunately the clubs do nothing to try to change this.

[garlicbread]

After the debacle that was Millwall last season, unless its a "bubble game" I will never use CATS again. When I go to an away game, I want a day out, and regardless of whether its down to poor police performance or not, when ever you seem to go on the CATS, I find I have had rubbish days out. I like to get to an away ground, go for a beer, maybe even have a few beers en route....get their early enough to check the place out, have a wander round the ground etc.

Unfortunately, police these days just want football fans in and out, and unfortunately the clubs do nothing to try to change this.

Dunno why people use CATS. Ive never used them in my life.

I like to go to the game when I leave when I want and then decide what I want to do.

It must be so fraustrating if you wanna have a few beers straight after, but get shepherded straight on to a minging coach and sent straight back home like some prisoner on transfer.

No ta

[Rob k]

Dunno why people use CATS. Ive never used them in my life.

I like to go to the game when I leave when I want and then decide what I want to do.

It must be so fraustrating if you wanna have a few beers straight after, but get shepherded straight on to a minging coach and sent straight back home like some prisoner on transfer.

No ta

I would never go on cats again (unless forced to like cardiff), You have to stop for an Hour in the service station and then all that nonesense with the police, No thanks, Its Far better to go on one of the unofficials and stop for a few beers in some randam places!!!

[tin]

That's why I don't use CATS, unless I can't avoid it. Overpriced, takes for ever and stupid things and things like that happen. Mix that with the fact you can't have a drink on board and I really don't see the attraction.

On another note, I went via train yesterday. Got off at Leicester and was stopped by the OB for no reason whatsoever. They asked me to empty the contents of my pockets, which I did, then asked for my details. I said 'no' as it's against my human rights, unless I'm being charged with something, and they decided to look in my wallet for any ID. They said 'you have to give them details under Section 60'.

Is that an offence or what? They let me go eventually but I couldn't understand why they did what they did. Is that standard procedure? Can I expect any consequences from that? All very strange...

[Busterrimes]

That's why I don't use CATS, unless I can't avoid it. Overpriced, takes for ever and stupid things and things like that happen. Mix that with the fact you can't have a drink on board and I really don't see the attraction.

On another note, I went via train yesterday. Got off at Leicester and was stopped by the OB for no reason whatsoever. They asked me to empty the contents of my pockets, which I did, then asked for my details. I said 'no' as it's against my human rights, unless I'm being charged with something, and they decided to look in my wallet for any ID. They said 'you have to give them details under Section 60'.

Is that an offence or what? They let me go eventually but I couldn't understand why they did what they did. Is that standard procedure? Can I expect any consequences from that? All very strange...

Do a Google Search on Section 60 for your rights. From what I have found they only have the right to search you for a weapon. You do not have to give you name or allow your photo to be taken and they cannot look through your wallet.

Hope this helps.

[BCFC DREAMER]

That's why I don't use CATS, unless I can't avoid it. Overpriced, takes for ever and stupid things and things like that happen. Mix that with the fact you can't have a drink on board and I really don't see the attraction.

On another note, I went via train yesterday. Got off at Leicester and was stopped by the OB for no reason whatsoever. They asked me to empty the contents of my pockets, which I did, then asked for my details. I said 'no' as it's against my human rights, unless I'm being charged with something, and they decided to look in my wallet for any ID. They said 'you have to give them details under Section 60'.

Is that an offence or what? They let me go eventually but I couldn't understand why they did what they did. Is that standard procedure? Can I expect any consequences from that? All very strange...

sounds like mistaken identity to me, you may have fitted a description, why would they care what your name is?

[Guest red ken 2]

There's as much life on a Cats coach as in a morge, as for Leicestershire OB, its a regular tatic to escourt coaches in and out of the city. Just remember it's New Labour (oops Tory) police state we live in.

[WarksRed]

That's why I don't use CATS, unless I can't avoid it. Overpriced, takes for ever and stupid things and things like that happen. Mix that with the fact you can't have a drink on board and I really don't see the attraction.

On another note, I went via train yesterday. Got off at Leicester and was stopped by the OB for no reason whatsoever. They asked me to empty the contents of my pockets, which I did, then asked for my details. I said 'no' as it's against my human rights, unless I'm being charged with something, and they decided to look in my wallet for any ID. They said 'you have to give them details under Section 60'.

Is that an offence or what? They let me go eventually but I couldn't understand why they did what they did. Is that standard procedure? Can I expect any consequences from that? All very strange...

Maybe they were looking for a 'wide-boy' from London, with a panchant for caps and sheepskin jackets, no doubt police intel advised them that 'Mandella Towers' was really in Bristol and not London, and that they were more likely to find him on a train from Bristol, but i guess as long as your names not Trotter, you don't have a brother called Rodney, and that Avitar isn't your passport pic, you're OK .

[tin]

Do a Google Search on Section 60 for your rights. From what I have found they only have the right to search you for a weapon. You do not have to give you name or allow your photo to be taken and they cannot look through your wallet.

Hope this helps.

Cheers pal, that's pretty much what I thought. They rummaged through my wallet and found my name and address and ran it through their systems. When I asked why they were doing it, they didn't give me a straight answer. So I just shut up and let them get on with it. Have no respect for them whatsoever.

Maybe they were looking for a 'wide-boy' from London, with a panchant for caps and sheepskin jackets, no doubt police intel advised them that 'Mandella Towers' was really in Bristol and not London, and that they were more likely to find him on a train from Bristol, but i guess as long as your names not Trotter, you don't have a brother called Rodney, and that Avitar isn't your passport pic, you're OK .

englandsmile4wf.gif

Haha, quality!

[goldengraham]

I know what you mean tins, the same happended to most of the guys/kids/impressionable yoof that got off my train with the old bill lined up waiting to intercept anyone getting off.

Luckily as i have the dullest monotone non accented voice in the world and look like a total woos who couldnt punch his way out of a paper bag i never get any hassle on away trips

[City fan 1982]

never use cats adds 2hrs to journey!!!!!!!!!

[Nibor]

Section 60 doesn't require you to answer questions nor authorise a copper to open your wallet.

[Henry]

That's why I don't use CATS, unless I can't avoid it. Overpriced, takes for ever and stupid things and things like that happen. Mix that with the fact you can't have a drink on board and I really don't see the attraction.

On another note, I went via train yesterday. Got off at Leicester and was stopped by the OB for no reason whatsoever. They asked me to empty the contents of my pockets, which I did, then asked for my details. I said 'no' as it's against my human rights, unless I'm being charged with something, and they decided to look in my wallet for any ID. They said 'you have to give them details under Section 60'.

Is that an offence or what? They let me go eventually but I couldn't understand why they did what they did. Is that standard procedure? Can I expect any consequences from that? All very strange...

Not sure how realible this is given the source, but seems like you've been unfairly treated.

Section 60 orders

Section 60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 provides for orders extending police powers within a particular locality for 24 hours. Where a police officer of or above the rank of superintendent reasonably believes that incidents involving serious violence may take place in his locality he may institute a 24-hour Section 60 or S60 order. Individual orders may be extended by six hours.

When a section 60 order is in place for a particular locality, any police constable in uniform may:

stop any pedestrian in that locality and search him or anything carried by him for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments

stop any vehicle in that locality and search the vehicle, its driver and any passenger for offensive weapons or dangerous instruments

seize any such offensive weapons or dangerous instruments

In the exercise of the above powers, it is not necessary for the constable to have any grounds for suspecting that the person or vehicle is carrying the weapons or articles described. Pedestrians and drivers of vehicles are entitled to apply for a written statement that their person or vehicle was stopped under the powers conferred by section 60 within twelve months from the day on which the pedestrian or vehicle was stopped. In section 60, "dangerous instruments" means instruments which have a blade or are sharply pointed. "Offensive weapon" has the meaning given by section 1(9) of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984.

The search should not be used to discover identity or for any other purpose, so items too small to conceal a weapon or dangerous instrument, for example a wallet, should not be searched. Constables are not entitled to read any papers, etc. they may find.

Section 60, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

[bringbacktherobin]

The S60 order allows police at major demonstrations and football matches to "stop and search in anticipation of violence" and nothing else.

The police however employ this as a tactic to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters, despite not really having the power to do so. Its effectiveness in the past has been due to no-one really understanding just how limited the police powers under an S60 order are.

In the event of an S60 order being issued, these are the important things to remember;

1. The police do have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

2. They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them - it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

3. They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

4. They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated. If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

5. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

6. If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS. Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60.

Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

7. They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

8. They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal.

Legal Update from the same site thea above came from:

While performing a search they _can_ ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

5. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They _can_ search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

6. They _can_ search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs *. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

[East End Lad]

I've always wondered how awkward it would be for them if they did this to anouther Police Officer who was following City. It would be pretty awkward for them if this officer turns around and says actually you cant do that. Wonder what they would do then. Walk away I suspect?

[Angry Robin]

Leicester OB tactics, keep the coaches waiting for an hour 5 miles out on the motorway, then straight into the ground at 2.40pm, no time for a beer, did the same thing to CAT coaches a few seasons ago in the FA Cup. Lets hope we don't have to go back there next season.

[tin]

The S60 order allows police at major demonstrations and football matches to "stop and search in anticipation of violence" and nothing else.

The police however employ this as a tactic to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters, despite not really having the power to do so. Its effectiveness in the past has been due to no-one really understanding just how limited the police powers under an S60 order are.

In the event of an S60 order being issued, these are the important things to remember;

1. The police do have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

2. They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them - it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

3. They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

4. They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated. If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

5. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

6. If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS. Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60.

Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

7. They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

8. They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal.

Legal Update from the same site thea above came from:

While performing a search they _can_ ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

5. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They _can_ search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

6. They _can_ search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs *. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

Thanks for that, it's what I said to them yesterday. The only reason I let them get on with it is because when I said 'no' the first time, they were shaping up aggressively, like they were going to arrest me. I didn't want to miss the game so just let them get on with it. Going to have to draft a letter to try and get those details struck off then.

[Taunton_City]

Went on CATS to middlesbrough last season, got there in plenty of time but they stopped us for over an hour so we couldnt go for a drink!!!

COMPLETE JOKE......

WILL NEVER USE AGAIN......

One of the reasons i goto football is for the days out in different towns and citys......

[Lee F]

Got off the same train as you Tins. I think you must be the guy in the very smart Lyle top with a few of your mates, all of you appeared good lads especially whilst in the pub having a laugh and a sing song. It was a bit much taking us all out of a side entrance from the station and basically forcing us into the pub over the road.

They could also have taken us on a more direct route to the ground as well rather than the 3 mile around the outskirts way we went.(still it made my boys day when 'sit down if you hate the gas' started in the middle of the main road which obviously anoyed OB but they seemed powerless to stop it).

One thing that I found well OTT though was the presence of OB and Transport Police all the way back from Leicester to Birmingham and again from Birmingham to Bristol. Totally uneeded IMHO. 2 OB on every entrance and exit on the trains!!!

The 3 or 4 guys that were dragged off the train at Nuneaton by OB for singing was also totally out of line I thought. Yes the songs had swearing and the like in them but it was only singing!!I was sat in the carriage next to theirs when most of the people in the carriage with them were moved by OB and then at the next stop physically dragged the singers off without any discussions at all. I was informed it was because young kids etc were around, I even pointed out the only kid near was my 11 yr old boy who had been singing Holloways a **** all day! It is part and parcel of football support and he knows it stops after football and stays stopped until we next go! (Senseble is our Ginge!!!)

I just feel we are as football fans viewed as scum by all authority and nothing is about to change that. Luckily my boy absolutley loved the day out - his 1st ever away trip and cant wait for Southampton, Stoke and Sheffield. So OB if you were planning to put us off following City it has not worked! Thanks and praise to al those we met on the trip especially in the HIND it was a top way to start my boys away day experience.

Regards

Lee.

[Taunton_City]

Got off the same train as you Tins. I think you must be the guy in the very smart Lyle top with a few of your mates, all of you appeared good lads especially whilst in the pub having a laugh and a sing song. It was a bit much taking us all out of a side entrance from the station and basically forcing us into the pub over the road.

They could also have taken us on a more direct route to the ground as well rather than the 3 mile around the outskirts way we went.(still it made my boys day when 'sit down if you hate the gas' started in the middle of the main road which obviously anoyed OB but they seemed powerless to stop it).

One thing that I found well OTT though was the presence of OB and Transport Police all the way back from Leicester to Birmingham and again from Birmingham to Bristol. Totally uneeded IMHO. 2 OB on every entrance and exit on the trains!!!

The 3 or 4 guys that were dragged off the train at Nuneaton by OB for singing was also totally out of line I thought. Yes the songs had swearing and the like in them but it was only singing!!I was sat in the carriage next to theirs when most of the people in the carriage with them were moved by OB and then at the next stop physically dragged the singers off without any discussions at all. I was informed it was because young kids etc were around, I even pointed out the only kid near was my 11 yr old boy who had been singing Holloways a **** all day! It is part and parcel of football support and he knows it stops after football and stays stopped until we next go! (Senseble is our Ginge!!!)

I just feel we are as football fans viewed as scum by all authority and nothing is about to change that. Luckily my boy absolutley loved the day out - his 1st ever away trip and cant wait for Southampton, Stoke and Sheffield. So OB if you were planning to put us off following City it has not worked! Thanks and praise to al those we met on the trip especially in the HIND it was a top way to start my boys away day experience.

Regards

Lee.

Great post, and I'm pleased about the highlighted bit!!!! Roll on Southampton, Stoke and Sheff

[Andy082005]

As frustrating as it is, if they want to search your wallet...they can, as you they can say they are checking for razor blades!

What they are not allowed to do it check your cards or that for ID

[tin]

Got off the same train as you Tins. I think you must be the guy in the very smart Lyle top with a few of your mates, all of you appeared good lads especially whilst in the pub having a laugh and a sing song. It was a bit much taking us all out of a side entrance from the station and basically forcing us into the pub over the road.

They could also have taken us on a more direct route to the ground as well rather than the 3 mile around the outskirts way we went.(still it made my boys day when 'sit down if you hate the gas' started in the middle of the main road which obviously anoyed OB but they seemed powerless to stop it).

One thing that I found well OTT though was the presence of OB and Transport Police all the way back from Leicester to Birmingham and again from Birmingham to Bristol. Totally uneeded IMHO. 2 OB on every entrance and exit on the trains!!!

The 3 or 4 guys that were dragged off the train at Nuneaton by OB for singing was also totally out of line I thought. Yes the songs had swearing and the like in them but it was only singing!!I was sat in the carriage next to theirs when most of the people in the carriage with them were moved by OB and then at the next stop physically dragged the singers off without any discussions at all. I was informed it was because young kids etc were around, I even pointed out the only kid near was my 11 yr old boy who had been singing Holloways a **** all day! It is part and parcel of football support and he knows it stops after football and stays stopped until we next go! (Senseble is our Ginge!!!)

I just feel we are as football fans viewed as scum by all authority and nothing is about to change that. Luckily my boy absolutley loved the day out - his 1st ever away trip and cant wait for Southampton, Stoke and Sheffield. So OB if you were planning to put us off following City it has not worked! Thanks and praise to al those we met on the trip especially in the HIND it was a top way to start my boys away day experience.

Regards

Lee.

Yep, that was me mate. You should've said hello! Glad your lad had a good time, hopefully that'll be another youngster hooked on the City! I totally agree with your final paragraph. Sadly, I've only encountered decent policing on a few occasions this season and whilst yesterday wasn't too bad I'm just peeved about having my details taken for no reason.

[Fodbarmyarmy]

Unfortunately, police these days just want football fans in and out, and unfortunately the clubs do nothing to try to change this.

It's not up to the clubs - it's up to us THE FANS to change it by pointing out the idiots who cause trouble and refusing to allow their antisocial behaviour just because it is a football game-

if we don't then the average fan will continue to be treated this way

Unfortunatley there are still many who hold violence and inimidation of opposing fans at football as a "glory" thing, you only have to see the attitude of a fair few of the posters on this site to see that

"it's only a bit of fun!" -

"it's just banter, get a life" -

"those who want to fight will and nothing you can do about it" -

"it's always been like that"

"It adds to the atmosphere"

While supporters keep up this kind of attitude then all of us will continue to pay with lack of freedom to enjoy matchdays to the full - last Saturday & up coming Cardiff just two examples

Such a shame for our beautiful game

[garlicbread]

The S60 order allows police at major demonstrations and football matches to "stop and search in anticipation of violence" and nothing else.

The police however employ this as a tactic to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters, despite not really having the power to do so. Its effectiveness in the past has been due to no-one really understanding just how limited the police powers under an S60 order are.

In the event of an S60 order being issued, these are the important things to remember;

1. The police do have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

2. They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them - it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

3. They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

4. They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated. If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

5. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

6. If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS. Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60.

Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

7. They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

8. They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal.

Legal Update from the same site thea above came from:

While performing a search they _can_ ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

5. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They _can_ search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

6. They _can_ search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs *. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

Do all of the above and recieve a cosh to the head!

[NORTHAVON_RED]

The S60 order allows police at major demonstrations and football matches to "stop and search in anticipation of violence" and nothing else.

The police however employ this as a tactic to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters, despite not really having the power to do so. Its effectiveness in the past has been due to no-one really understanding just how limited the police powers under an S60 order are.

In the event of an S60 order being issued, these are the important things to remember;

1. The police do have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

2. They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them - it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

3. They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

4. They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated. If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

5. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

6. If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS. Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60.

Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

7. They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

8. They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal.

Legal Update from the same site thea above came from:

While performing a search they _can_ ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

5. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They _can_ search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

6. They _can_ search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs *. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

that's worth printing out and keeping in a wallet for future reference

[bh_red]

I went on the coach yesterday, leaving Ashton Gate at 10am.We stopped off at Corley service station for refreshments etc around 12 o'clock.We had to be back at the coach ready to leave by 12-45 as we had to meet up with all the other coaches and the police at a service station just outside of Leicester at 1-15. We got to the other service station exactly 1-14 to be greeted by 6 or 7 police on motorbikes and 1 police car. This is the bit that annoys me, the police kept all the coaches in this service station until 2-20, 1 hour and 5 minutes hanging around before they would escort us to the ground which was about 4-5 miles away.The police then escorted the coaches to the ground, blocking the roads off on our journey so we didnt stop at all, eventually getting to the ground at 2-40(no time for a beer ).Is this normal practice with the away fans when Leicester play at home, or was it because it was BCFC. I don't know what the residents must have thought seeing 8-9 coaches surrounded by all those police and roads being closed off for us. It certainly annoyed a lot of us supporters the way we were kept hanging around.

had the exact same problem few years back when went to Leicester in the cup. It's a joke.

didn't help that our coach actually got lost on the way either, driver didn't notice the other 20 coaches pulling off the motorway and just carried on going........... I kid you not.

[cider head]

http://www.urban75.org/mayday01/s60.html

Legal Advice: Section 60

At N30 and Mayday 2000 in London, riot police cordoned off the demonstration, corralling large numbers of people into an increasing confined area before taking their names, addresses and photographs, eventually releasing them one by one. This was done under the obscure Section 60 of the Criminal Justice & Public Order Act 1994 (originally designed to prevent minor football disturbances).

The S60 order is a new police tactic at major demonstrations used effectively to control, subdue and gain personal information about protesters despite having the extraordinarily limited power simply to "Stop and search in anticipation of violence".

Its effectiveness in the past was due to the fact that no-one knew just exactly what powers the police had under S60. As it turns out, they have very few powers.

In the event of an S60 order being issued on Mayday 2001, these are the important things to remember: The police have the power to search you for weapons (and dangerous instruments). They have no other powers under S60. They can only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search".

They have no legal power to force you to give them your name and address. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES give it to them: it will be kept on file for SEVEN years. When asked, say "NO COMMENT".

They have no legal power to force you to have your photograph taken. Do not allow them to do this. This too will be kept on file for SEVEN years. Keep your head turned away, or put your hand in front of your face.

They have no legal power to ask you to remove any item of clothing in public view, OTHER THAN that which is concealing your identity. Any facial masking can be confiscated.

If you are asked to remove coats/jumpers etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT. They have no legal power to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc. This is an S60 search, for weapons only. If they ask to search wallets, purses, inside small pockets etc, REFUSE OUTRIGHT.

If you have a bag they will search that, but again for weapons only. Any other items, documents, potentially incriminating articles are OFF LIMITS.

Do not allow them to examine any of your personal possessions (cash cards, student cards, diaries, organisers etc). This is not part of S60. Under Article 8 of the UK Human Rights Act 1998 your privacy is assured. Make sure they know this. They can only confiscate weapons and facial masking.

They have the power to use "reasonable force" but ONLY if you do not submit to a search. No other force can be used for any other purpose.

They must tell you their name, number, station they're based at the reason for the search. Ask them for this. Not only will it piss them, off but if they don't provide this information the search will be illegal. Remember: in an S60 situation, you are accused of nothing and you have done nothing wrong. DO NOT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS, however insignificant or polite. SAY "NO COMMENT" to everything.

Most of all, DON'T BE SCARED BY THEM! They know the law, and now so do you. USE IT!

Update:

Legal Advice: Section 60

Contrary to information being circulated, the legal basis of the tactic of police cordoning off demonstrations and forbidding large numbers of people to leave from inside the cordon - as used at J18, N30 and Mayday2K - is NOT s60 of the Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994.

Police, indeed anyone, can use reasonable force to detain people to prevent a breach of the peace where they fear one is imminent. This was the basis of the effective mass imprisonment at previous demonstrations. It is not an arrest.

The powers in s60 have been used to search people individually as they are being released from the cordon and this is where the confusion stems from.

S60 can be used where a senior cop reasonably suspects there will be incidents of serious violence _or_ that people are carrying dangerous weapons or offensive weapons in a locality (inserted by s8 Knives Act 1997).

1. Once police have released you from the cordoned area, they can _then_ only detain you "for as long as necessary to carry out a search". While in the cordoned area they can detain you as long as they have reasonable (i.e. objectively justifiable) grounds that this is necessary to prevent a breach of the peace.

4. While performing a search they _can_ ask you to remove outer clothing, such as coats and jumpers in public. In addition, s60(4A) - inserted by s25 CDA 1998 - allows the police to force you to remove anything they reasonably suspect you are wearing wholly or mainly to conceal your identity. There is nothing to stop you putting something else on after you have taken off a mask or had it confiscated.

5. The s60 search is for "offensive weapons or dangerous instruments". This is not limited to large things such as samurai swords and stun guns (taking examples from certain Sunday papers) but can include razor blades. They _can_ search inside wallets, purses, small pockets for these.

6. They _can_ search personal possessions for dangerous instruments that might be hidded inside and they can also seize prohibited articles such as drugs *. While it is true that Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) contains a qualified right of respect for your private life, and that under s6 of the Human Rights Act 1998 public authorities such as the police will be acting unlawfully if they breach any right in the ECHR, it is wrong to see this as doing something as absolute as assuring your privacy.

Before police start searching through personal possessions, e.g. address books, cards in wallet, warn them politely that if they do start trying to read what's in your address book or on the cards in your wallet rather than performing a cursory search, i.e. seeing if razor blades fall out onto the ground from your address book, they will be acting outside their powers and you will stop them.

8. Before conducting the search, an officer must take reasonable steps to communicate their name, number, station, etc. They also have to provide you with a written record of the search, which you should ask for. If they can't provide one straight away they must tell you which police station you can get it from. Police dislike form filling and paperwork particularly when it leaves less time to bash anti-capitalists and then fit them up.

9. Under the Data Protection Act, anyone holding personal data relating to other people (this includes video and photographic footage) has to provide copies to those people for £10, as demonstrated by Mark Thomas on C4. If substantial numbers of people on the Mayday demonstration exercise this right, the police will have to spend their resources on finding footage with those individuals on, in order to collate it and send it to them, rather than gathering intelligence and preparing for arrests.

* Anyone arrested for possession of cannabis should be aware that there is a test case going through the courts on the compatability of cannabis proibition with the Human Rights Act - you should seek advice from Liberty before accepting a caution or pleading guilty.

LEGAL BRIEFING FROM LDMG

Identification

While there is no obligation to carry identification failure to do so may delay your release if arrested. If you do not plan to withhold your details from the police you might as well carry things such as your bank cards.

'Human Rights'

Only a few rights are absolute, such as the right not to be tortured. British courts have been quite stingy in interpreting rights, and the European Court tends to have a hands off approach where there are issues of public disorder.

It's dangerous to start saying human rights give you the rights to do this and that as the rights have to be interpreted in their context. In particular UK courts and even the European Court have been very hands-off and deferential to the police when judging the legality of supposed breaches of the peace.

Section 60 Orders

[see above]

Public order offences

These are all from the Public Order Act 1986. You can only be arrested for 'causing harassment, alarm or distress' (s5) if you have already been warned by an officer.

Terrorism Act 2000

While this has only been used so far to ban 21 groups, there are enough powers in this law to create a full-on police state. While journalists and anyone connected to those groups in particular should take legal advice, anyone at the Mayday demonstration could be arrested under the Terrorism Act even if they have not committed an offence. You can be detained for _seven_ days and held incommunicado for the first 48 hours. See the forthcoming bust card for more info: you ignore this law at your peril.

Raif N.B. The text above is from me and not CATA. Conditions of use of the above text are on my website at http://get.to/raif and so is a leaflet on dealing with the police done for J18 (both in the law section). http://get.to/raif Campaign Against the Terrorism Act (CATA)

BM Box 563

LONDON WC1N 3XX

More info http://go.to/ta2000