Lee Johnson - Managerial Record

[Bowie]

2 hours ago, Harry said:

So do we therefore write-off Steve Cotterill's achievement in staving off relegation when he first arrived at AG? It was such a piss poor level after all.....

Based on him failing to last the season in championship

Yes

 

[Back of the net]

Managing at a lower level isn't easier than managing at a higher level - they just require two different skill sets.  Lower level managers can be successful with ranting and raving, whilst the higher leagues demand an element of technical nous.   

SC was I'm sure good at ranting and raving but found out technically. LJ may just have that technical awareness and will be better equipped to operate at a higher level. He just needs that opportunity and it appears we are the brave ones to back him in that.

For all the boards faults they know exactly what is going to be said about this appointment and to continue with it surely demonstrates that they have been hugely impressed with LJ.  We should need to rely on a manager to solely sell the club to any player - let's sell the stadium, the fans, the financial stability of the board......

Also, it's not a cheap option if he has a terrible 6 months as we will be paying off another manager, and the board will know this.

Let's back the fella, whoever gets the job, and build something stable and progressive together as one club.  

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 hours ago, spudski said:

 

Would you prefer someone who doesn't want to work with the board EMB?

If so...do you think our board are incapable of running a football club?

Work? interesting word when associated with BCFC, you more than any other poster on this forum know how difficult that particular ethic has been for successive managers, you have mentioned it enough in your posts, Coppell and SOD are 2 managers you defend whilst stating that neither got what had been promised, you also mention a lot how the board tend deviate away from agreed directions and you also mentioned that SOD tried to stand up to them, so yes work with the board but not simply follow the board, they have to be their own person, something this board has previously not taken well to.

As for the last sentence, what I think is that this board has made some absolutely mind blowingly stupid decisions at a time when things are going outstandingly well for the club and it seems to be a history that seems to be being repeated for the second time within the past 10 years.

When was the last the board admitted their part in the **** up's?.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 hours ago, Monkeh said:

because pearson has no intrest in managing Bristol city he will be aiming a lot higher then us,

Do you have a link to this statement?.

[EnclosureSurge]

6 hours ago, NickJ said:

The day he joined Oldham they were 18th, 6 teams below them.

How did they look certain for relegation?

 

Where did you find that stat? My stats say they were 21st, 2 pts from safety on March 16 2013.

It also states Oldham were 21st the day he was appointed, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21353063

[redapple]

6 hours ago, TRL said:

Good post but how accurate? I thought the Barnsley setup was going to be similar to ours.

 

There have been various sound bites From LJ that he hasn't had a say in some transfer dealings (incoming). 

 

A quick look at the improvement in form points to an enforced formation change due to injury rather than a great managerial decision.

 

He maybe great. He may not be. This is a very one-sided argument for him Harry. 

The best managers are lucky ones . 

[TRL]

1 minute ago, redapple said:

The best managers are lucky ones . 

Or do you make your own luck by influencing others?

 

Personality (and i don't mean personality as in Gazza) has a big part to play in the success of people

[redapple]

18 minutes ago, TRL said:

Or do you make your own luck by influencing others?

 

Personality (and i don't mean personality as in Gazza) has a big part to play in the success of people

You make your own luck by making great decisions often and consistently . Decisions need thought and timing . 

[RedYoshi]

1 hour ago, EnclosureSurge said:

Where did you find that stat? My stats say they were 21st, 2 pts from safety on March 16 2013.

It also states Oldham were 21st the day he was appointed, here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/21353063

Yep - they were last 18th on December 19 2012.

Johnson appointed March 18 2013.

Reached 18th again on April 20 2013.

Guessing @NickJ may have looked at March 18 2014, when Oldham were indeed 18th.

(As I initially did by looking at March 18 2012 - when they were 17th - and briefly thinking everyone was wrong )

[GodEmperor Palpatine]

7 hours ago, Ian M said:

I'll add my reply from that thread here too

 

When LJ became the youngest manager in the Football League I was intrigued so have paid fairly close attention to his career since.

 

For those who ask what contacts he has, he has openly stated in interviews that he realised whilst still a teenager that his career goal was to get into football management and everything he did before that first job was calculated to help him reach that point. Whilst other players went off to catch some sun during international breaks and the close season, LJ sought invitations to various clubs around the world to see how they approach things differently and what could be of benefit to his career. This is a guy who is hugely driven and has spent half his life focussed on becoming what he is today. Lee is definitely a talker and passionate about what he talks about. That together with the kind of players he has already attracted leaves me with no qualms over his ability to convince players to sign for our club.

 

The only real worry I have is that some of our "supporters" decide to show their version off "support" from day 1 by abusing him at the ground, but fortunately it appears the go to option for these fans could be to stay away. Here's hoping. 

 

I for one am excited by this potential appointment.

Was about to post the same thing, particularly the 3rd paragraph.

[RED@BS14]

8 hours ago, Harry said:

I don't wish to add to the LJ threads, but I think it's important to start a new topic with my comments below.  I posted this on Thursday on the (currently) 9 page LJ thread, and I'm sure it was easy for many readers to miss this.
There is a lot of stuff talked about LJ being inexperienced or not good enough, but I hope my comments below bring some perspective to this, and highlight the difficult jobs he's taken on, and how he's worked very well in those jobs to achieve success (success being relative - of course he's not won silverware with these jobs, but that's highly unlikely anyway given the jobs he took on, but he has been successful relative to what each job required at the time).
Anyway, here's my original comments from the thread the other day :

"I'm really keen to pick up on the comment around Lee Johnson not having any tactical nous, nor any success at player recruitment.  Certainly not picking you out from the crowd on this though Cheshire Red, as it's probably a view held by many of our fans who don't really know too much about his managerial history to date.

I'll give you all the lo-down.

LJ arrived at Oldham in March 2013 with them looking certain for relegation to League 2.  His 10 games in charge consisted 4 wins, 3 draws 3 losses.  15 points gained in 10 games, which saw them to safety with 2 games spare.  Points per game ratio of 1.5, whereas the same team had only managed 1 point per game in the previous 36.  Whether this was "tactical nous", new manager syndrome, or just plain luck will never be known, but it was a very good start to his career.
I'd say he was helped on his way by his very first signing as a manager, none other than Korey Smith.  So this instantly dispels the myth that he has no recruitment nous, as that's a pretty damn good first signing and one he knew could help his new team to safety.

Season 2013/14 began with LJ losing 18 players from the squad who were out of contract!  He lost crucial players to Oldham in Matt Smith, Jean Mvoto & Jose Baxter.

A huge rebuilding job was required.  Recruitment strategy - a whole bunch of freebies & loans, as there was no cash in the pot to spend.  16 players brought in on permanent deals, plus 13 loans!!  Not a penny spent.  He signed players from England, Scotland, Holland, Latvia, Italy, Switzerland, Canada, Non-League, Youth teams.  I'd say that was a pretty rough crash-course in recruitment.  But was it a success?  Well, having lost his best players and brought in a host of freebies, he took Oldham from near relegation the season before, up to a respectable 15th.

Season 2014/15 was another rebuild.  He lost key players again - James Tarkowski, Korey Smith, Jonson Clarke-Harris. Again, not much money available to replace those losses.  10 freebies were brought in, from England, France, Scotland, non league.  2 players cost money - Rhys Murphy & Dom Poleon, totaling around £85k.  Loans again played a part, in particular, Daniel Johnson loaned from Villa (this was prior to his Preston days).
By the time he left in February amongst the Ched Evans nonsense, he had Oldham up to 9th in the table, and winning rave reviews for their style of play.  After he left, they slumped and finished 15th.

His time at Oldham shows that he took a team from the foot of the division, to near the playoffs, on a budget of £85k (received over £1.3m in transfers out), picking up free transfers from 8 different countries and spotting talent such as Korey Smith and Daniel Johnson on the way.  I'd say he demonstrated tactical nous and efficient recruitment acumen during this spell (£1.2m profit on transfer dealings, lifting a team from 21st to 9th).

So, onto Barnsley.
Joined in late February and took charge of 14 games, 5 wins, 6 draws, 3 losses.  1.5 points per game.  Better than the team had performed in the season to date, at 1.28 points per game.  Guided them to 11th - the team was on course for 15th at the previous points ratio. 

His first full season with Barnsley started in summer 2015 when he again faced a huge rebuild of the squad.  It is a common myth that LJ has money to send at Barnsley and should be challenging at the top.  In the summer, he lost 13 players.  From the previous season, the only remaining regulars were Hourihane, Nyatanga, Winnall & Scowen.  That's a massive challenge for any manager.
He was able to bring in 9 players in the summer, 1 for a fee of £150k, 2 for nominal (tribunal) fees.  Again, the squad being bulked up by loans.  So people should in no way suggest LJ has a big budget at Barnsley.  Far from it.  They sold Holgate for £2m, but he's spent no more than £200k.  He also has the youngest squad in the entire football league.
Again, just think of that - it's a huge challenge for any manager to make a success of Barnsley this season - 4 regulars from the previous season, and only £200k to spend!!
Does he have a good eye in the transfer market?  Loans from Man Utd (Pearson, Rothwell, Fletcher), Arsenal (Crowley) & Newcastle (Toney) suggest he's got some pretty decent contacts and a decent eye for talent (Pearson has now gone to Preston for £650k).

He currently has Barnsley in 12th - higher than they were when he took over, and 1 game from Wembley.  He's had virtually nothing to spend and has the youngest team in the land.  I'd say he's doing a pretty good job there.

Just to finish, I also know players who've played under him (including currently at Barnsley), and they say he's bright, articulate, tactically aware, a good man-manager and a real 21st century manager with fresh ideas and a caring demeanor.

Is he right for us at this very moment?  Hard to say, but his first 2 spells as a manager have seen immediate upturn in results when appointed with 10-15 games left.
Whether he is ready for us or not, a lot of posters on here are very blinkered to LJ's abilities as a manager, simply because they didn't like him as a player.  That should matter not.  If he hadn't played here, and you looked at his managerial record (as outlined above), whilst not standing out and shouting at you to get him, you'd say he's someone to keep an eye on as it looks like he's got a good future in a managerial capacity.

My advice to all is, don't be put off by your pre-conceived opinion of LJ as a player.  Judge him as a manager, and if you look at the evidence above, he's worth throwing in the mix."

just what the board want then a manager/coach that is happy to go along with them spend little money just to keep us ticking along as an average team at best. 

[Tomo]

BUY CHEAP - BUY OFTEN 

Sums it up really!

[Red Skin]

Thanks for re-posting.  I couldn't be ar$ed wading through the other thread and good to see some analysis rather than opinion.  I liked Lee as a player and he obviously must be a strong character to keep playing and demanding the ball despite the IMHO misguided abuse he got from fans.  Also playing for your dad can't have been easy.   He comes across very well in interviews and has a calm and confident demeanour.  I'd have him in, but then again I didn't particularly fancy Cotts and was pleased when S O'D took over so what do I know??!!!

[old_eastender]

7 hours ago, Robin1988 said:

I'll back him if he comes in, but not without an underwhelming feeling. Building League 1 teams from scraps is commendable, but it is not the same as keeping up a Championship team.

The budgets, signings, agents and opposition he will be dealing with will be completely different to what he is used to. I'm not saying he won't do a good job, but when you appoint someone you want some assurance based on their previous record that they will, and I don't think he has much that matches up to our current scenario.

There are alternatives who are used to managing in this division. If we've spoken to them and they've turned us down, fine. But if Lee was our number 1 choice, then it's the wrong one IMO.

Same feeling from me... lets not forget GJ did a great job for us in L1 and obviously first season in Championship, then he was given big money to spend and frankly he made a right mess of it, signing up decidedly average players for big bucks leading to SL being 50m down for nothing.

[Aipearcey]

Has any manager ever permantly managed 3 clubs by the age of 34?

[tts_city]

For me he is tainted as daddys boy at bcfc, he wouldnt have had a quarter of the appearances if his old man hadnt sorted him out and deeply divided the faithfull at the time. Now after an unremarkable manager career so far in the lower leagues he is the man to save us in the champ which is a very different beast ? I cant believe its come to this after ashton boasting about the candidates. Will I support him if he is our man ? Yes, i dont have much choice, will I if we go down with him in charge ? No ******* chance. 

[TRL]

Just now, tts_city said:

For me he is tainted as daddys boy at bcfc, he wouldnt have had a quarter of the appearances if his old man hadnt sorted him out and deeply divided the faithfull at the time. Now after an unremarkable manager carrer so far in the lower leagues he is the man to save us in the champ which is a very different beast ? I cant believe its come to this after ashton boasting about the candidates. Wil I support him if he is our man ? Yes, i dont have much choice, will I if we go down with him in charge ? No ******* chance. 

I believe that is your problem with him, and others who seem to follow the herd when it comes to the chosen boo boy..  For me he was a good midfielder who was massively missed as our results faltered when he was out of the team injured while going for auto promotion to the prem

[tts_city]

1 minute ago, TRL said:

I believe that is your problem with him, and others who seem to follow the herd when it comes to the chosen boo boy..  For me he was a good midfielder who was massively missed as our results faltered when he was out of the team injured while going for auto promotion to the prem

yeah we massivley missed the sideways and backwards passes, always picked no matter the performace in the previous games, I really cant be ****** to go over it all again after all this time, follow the herd ? no i follow my eyes and have my own opinions after decades of support of this club, I truely hope im wrong on him as manager if he is the one, I want whats best for the club, but  an inexperienced manager in this league is as big a gamble as it gets, I would rather stick with pembo.

[GrahamC]

29 minutes ago, Aipearcey said:

Has any manager ever permantly managed 3 clubs by the age of 34?

Villas Boas.

[TRL]

3 minutes ago, tts_city said:

yeah we massivley missed the sideways and backwards passes, always picked no matter the performace in the previous games, I really cant be ****** to go over it all again after all this time, follow the herd ? no i follow my eyes and have my own opinions after decades of support of this club, I truely hope im wrong on him as manager if he is the one, I want whats best for the club, but  an inexperienced manager in this league is as big a gamble as it gets, I would rather stick with pembo.

yes, he did, we retained possession, when he was out of the side that ball came back at us alarmingly and our short comings were found out.  Your eyes I think lack some sort of footballing knowledge of the team we had back then,which was built on hard work, his ability to keep hold of the ball and play it simple enabled our team to put in the effort we did.  Without him the ball kept coming back and as much as we ran and ran with not much quality, it was not good enough

 

I don't think he was the greatest midfielder, but what he gave us cannot be dismissed in the way you have dismissed his abilities.

 

Time will tell how good he is as a manager, but his willingness to learn the trade while his team mates went out on the piss suggests he wants to be a success.

[tts_city]

Just now, TRL said:

yes, he did, we retained possession, when he was out of the side that ball came back at us alarmingly and our short comings were found out.  Your eyes I think lack some sort of footballing knowledge of the team we had back then,which was built on hard work, his ability to keep hold of the ball and play it simple enabled our team to put in the effort we did.  Without him the ball kept coming back and as much as we ran and ran with not much quality, it was not good enough

 

I don't think he was the greatest midfielder, but what he gave us cannot be dismissed in the way you have dismissed his abilities.

 

Time will tell how good he is as a manager, but his willingness to learn the trade while his team mates went out on the piss suggests he wants to be a success.

go **** yourself you self important *****.

[TRL]

Just now, tts_city said:

go **** yourself you self important *****.

:laugh: you mentioned your eyes.

 

anger management classes for tss

[RedYoshi]

13 minutes ago, tts_city said:

but  an inexperienced manager in this league is as big a gamble as it gets, I would rather stick with pembo.

 

13 minutes ago, tts_city said:

an inexperienced manager

 

14 minutes ago, tts_city said:

I would rather stick with pembo.

 

14 minutes ago, tts_city said:

an inexperienced manager

 

15 minutes ago, tts_city said:

an inexperienced manager

 

15 minutes ago, tts_city said:

I would rather stick with pembo.

 

[TRL]

1 minute ago, RedYoshi said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

don't point out he is chatting shit, he will get angry.  yes it is amazing the thought process of some people

[tts_city]

Just now, RedYoshi said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes both inexperienced but pembo has at least been second in command all season in the champ and stopped the goals leaking, with tomlin in the side now im optimistic, he and wade have a handle on whats required, LJ will be coming to it cold, thats my opinion.

[tts_city]

2 minutes ago, TRL said:

don't point out he is chatting shit, he will get angry.  yes it is amazing the thought process of some people

You really are a proper *****, well done.

 

2 minutes ago, TRL said:

 

[NickJ]

7 hours ago, Harry said:

They were 21st Nick and were only heading one way. 

Aah I see.

Near the bottom with 10 games to go is certain relegation.

Thanks.

 

[RedYoshi]

Just now, tts_city said:

Yes both inexperienced but pembo has at least been second in command all season in the champ and stopped the goals leaking, with tomlin in the side now im optimistic, he and wade have a handle on whats required, LJ will be coming to it cold, thats my opinion.

Well ok, I see that.

But in terms of "coming to it cold": Pearson, Monk, Rodgers, Moyes, Warnock - pretty much anyone else mentioned as far as the "names" go - haven't been managing anyone at all. They also know little about the club - Moyes aside.

Johnson has been managing a side all season, has recently arrested a slide (much like Pembo stemming the goals) and may well have just trumped any other candidates by turning up with one of his hugely in depth "100 day plans", or well prepared reports on several of our matches, much like he did at his two previous managerial interviews. Plus, he has a huge love of the club.

We were all inexperienced, at everything, once. Someone's got to give us a chance.

[Rich_s]

Excellent and balanced thread this. The number of "likes" must be some kind of record.

[tts_city]

6 minutes ago, RedYoshi said:

Well ok, I see that.

But in terms of "coming to it cold": Pearson, Monk, Rodgers, Moyes, Warnock - pretty much anyone else mentioned as far as the "names" go - haven't been managing anyone at all. They also know little about the club - Moyes aside.

Johnson has been managing a side all season, has recently arrested a slide (much like Pembo stemming the goals) and may well have just trumped any other candidates by turning up with one of his hugely in depth "100 day plans", or well prepared reports on several of our matches, much like he did at his two previous managerial interviews. Plus, he has a huge love of the club.

We were all inexperienced, at everything, once. Someone's got to give us a chance.

Thats fair enough, but arresting the recent slide at Barnsley if there forum is anything to go by was a slide self inflicted but granted its all opinions. As I said if he is the one I will support him this season, if we go down yeah I will still be there, pissed right off but there none the less there.