Section 82 stewarding yesterday

[Aaron-Bcfc]

12 hours ago, Redinthehead said:

It’s been explained clearly. You (and I) might not like the answer but that doesn’t mean it’s not been answered.

Disagree. Julie's answer only referenced increased stewarding. Nothing to do with the police presence. 

[BCFC1959]

7 hours ago, Loon plage said:

What kind of shit organisation allows both sets of fans to leave at the same time anyway.

The Police deliberately allow this. Justifies their presence and guaranteed overtime etc.

[Spoons]

6 minutes ago, BCFC1959 said:

The Police deliberately allow this. Justifies their presence and guaranteed overtime etc.

Enforced overtime ! Not many if any wanted to be stood there inside Ashton gate on their day off believe me! 

[Spoons]

53 minutes ago, matalan12 said:

Easy money not doing a great deal on overtime pay? They definitely do, believe me.

I think I might know a little bit about this subject! 

Not doing a great deal? Easy money? Dreamland

[Phileas Fogg]

3 minutes ago, Spoons said:

I think I might know a little bit about this subject! 

Not doing a great deal? Easy money? Dreamland

Are you a policeman Spoons?

I thought you were a postman

[frenchred]

Well it's hardly bloody difficult money, stood on a step watching football looking all Ard!. Good little earner with Christmas coming

[RedRock]

Two known flash points seemed devoid of officers - Ashton Terrace and the Industrial Estate. Fan convergence area outside the Atyeo/Lansdown was also lightly policed.  Given all the hassle to fans with match day/kick-off times seems odd that such low-key policing was evident in areas where it was likely to 'kick off'. 

Also, out of interest, does anyone risk assess such areas pre-match? Loads of 'handy' loose bricks and other materials readily available to grab from footpath at the top of Ashton Terrace. 

All a bit bizarre. 

 

[Spoons]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Are you a policeman Spoons?

I thought you were a postman

I am a postman ( black sheep of the family) brother father grandad etc all police. Brother high rank in Avon somerset. He's odd he hates football.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Don't want to dig this up again but on the question of chain of responsibility for police- this part of an article maybe out of date but then again may still have some merit.

Quote

What do police do at games and in relation to match stewards?

Ultimately, safety and security is down to the football club and for that their safety officer is in control. The police commander is in charge of police resources, though, and he and the safety officer sit side by side in the control room and work together to ensure overall safety.

But the safety officer has responsibility for anything inside that event. This might mean they turn to the commander and say: "Could you send some officers to that incident as the stewards can't deal with it."

Stewards effectively police the inside of football stadiums. The police support the stewards in that. If a situation went from policing a normal event to disorder breaking out, the police take primacy, but again they would work closely with the club.

Every club has protocols, contingencies for every eventuality. They practise them through table-top exercises. So if there is a suspect package or a bomb hoax or if there is a need to get a ground empty quickly, every steward and police officer knows where they fit into that model and the role they take on.

It is all intelligence led and follows from the conversation between the club and the police regarding whether the risk of a match needs to be increased so that then the number of police and stewards on duty increases.

For some cat‑A games in London you can have around 150 police on duty but actually policing the match would only be 50. The rest would monitor those coming out of the Tube stations etc. But there could be 700 stewards. For every 250 fans one steward is required – that's set in stone.

Paying particular attention to the bits in bold (the first bit is just the heading of the section).

Basically, it maybe the safety officer- or even the stand manager- who has requested police in that stand owing to a perception that the stand or the fans cannot be controlled so easily. The rest in the article is interesting, but not so relevant to this debate.

The third and fourth line is how it should work IMO. Roving role around the ground, except in segregation and perhaps in the away end v certain sides.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Here is another interesting one- and this is for people who stand in S82 in many ways as that is a home stand with police in it.

How well does this occur in that area on a typical matchday?

Engagement and communication by police to fans?

[Red Army 75]

The stewards last Saturday were appalling. Me and my boy stand on the last 2 seats of the row . For obvious reasons. Our row had more people than seats  by a lot (which doesn’t bother me or my son) . When we scored the winner the lady steward number 7 said get off the steps. I pointed out the numbers in the aisle. She wasn’t interested. And we stood with one foot on the steps. Which was no longer a problem .Horrendous stewarding 

[UREDS_91]

On 05/11/2017 at 20:29, The Gasbuster said:

A positive note for one of the stewards yesterday (at the back of S82).

It appeared that this guy was new to the job, because he was asking a lot of questions of his nearby colleague.

This was a bloke who had a great time. He was clapping and shuffling around to "Aden Flint is having a party", and was celebrating like a fan when we scored.

Good on him, I thought.

(he will probably get sacked now for not paying enough attention to the crowd / doing his job properly)

It was the same bloke who was bouncing along at the Palace game. Was loving life it seems. 

[MC RISK77]

On 06/11/2017 at 11:08, JulieH said:

I got there shortly after it had started by which time it was under some control.

cctv captures all of it so I will look tomorrow and see what exactly happened 

Any update? I take it you saw the Cardiff fans who broke through the gate?

[Dollymarie]

1 hour ago, MC RISK77 said:

Any update? I take it you saw the Cardiff fans who broke through the gate?

Julie is taking some leave during the international break, so may not see this for a few days. 

[TV Tom]

4 hours ago, Red Army 75 said:

The stewards last Saturday were appalling. Me and my boy stand on the last 2 seats of the row . For obvious reasons. Our row had more people than seats  by a lot (which doesn’t bother me or my son) . When we scored the winner the lady steward number 7 said get off the steps. I pointed out the numbers in the aisle. She wasn’t interested. And we stood with one foot on the steps. Which was no longer a problem .Horrendous stewarding 

I don’t know why some of these jumped up stewards have to be so antagonist, did she tell the OB to not stand on the steps?

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 minutes ago, harrys said:

I don’t know why some of these jumped up stewards have to be so antagonist, did she tell the OB to not stand on the steps?

I believe S82 gets unfair treatment and that police in there are unnecessary.

However, is a polite request to get off the steps really so antagonist? Remember we have a very fussy and secretive SAG after all. Said SAG get pissy about standing on steps so a polite request seems reasonable tbh.

[Spoons]

On 6 November 2017 at 20:07, Spoons said:

Enforced overtime ! Not many if any wanted to be stood there inside Ashton gate on their day off believe me! 

@RedLionLad Rubbished my post but it's fact...shock horror most police officers like to spend time with family instead of being enforced to work !!

[RedLionLad]

2 hours ago, Spoons said:

@RedLionLad Rubbished my post but it's fact...shock horror most police officers like to spend time with family instead of being enforced to work !!

Not all of them mate. I know a few who jump at the chance of doing the overtime on match days.

 

[Red Army 75]

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I believe S82 gets unfair treatment and that police in there are unnecessary.

However, is a polite request to get off the steps really so antagonist? Remember we have a very fussy and secretive SAG after all. Said SAG get pissy about standing on steps so a polite request seems reasonable tbh.

We only ended up on the steps as it was the safest place to be . Due to the overcrowding in our row . Which they weren’t  interested in. Even though they were checking people’s tickets. Also it was for a moment after the second goal. I know they are only doing their job but last week was overkill. By stewards and police. From the Eastend to the Williams to the Atyeo and now south stand. I’ve hardly seen any trouble. Probably more in other parts of the ground. The police in there last week was pathetic. No need . 

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

We only ended up on the steps as it was the safest place to be . Due to the overcrowding in our row . Which they weren’t  interested in. Even though they were checking people’s tickets. Also it was for a moment after the second goal. I know they are only doing their job but last week was overkill. By stewards and police. From the Eastend to the Williams to the Atyeo and now south stand. I’ve hardly seen any trouble. Probably more in other parts of the ground. The police in there last week was pathetic. No need . 

Don't disagree then. Especially about police.

Well when put like that, if it was just for a bit post 2nd goal she should have shown more leeway and sense.

[CyderInACan]

Lucky it was A&S and not the Heddlu! It does seem a very strange situation, a few of us in the Dolman just assumed something was going on in S82 given the police presence. Hopefully this can de-escalate and our fans can be left in peace to enjoy the game as they are in all other parts of the ground. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

Am going to suggest.

This is only suggestion, a hunch. However the police presence will have increased markedly after the Stoke game. 

Kid wsd shoved off his seat by steward, backlash occurs and understandably so.

My hunch therefore is that stand manager in S82, or safety officer, Storr, police themselves, SAG, EFL, FA, or some other body therefore requested a beefed up police presence. Even though it was a steward who caused it.

Disgrace- a matter for FSF Fair cop IMO if this is anywhere near right.

[Phileas Fogg]

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Am going to suggest.

This is only suggestion, a hunch. However the police presence will have increased markedly after the Stoke game. 

Kid wsd shoved off his seat by steward, backlash occurs and understandably so.

My hunch therefore is that stand manager in S82, or safety officer, Storr, police themselves, SAG, EFL, FA, or some other body therefore requested a beefed up police presence. Even though it was a steward who caused it.

Disgrace- a matter for FSF Fair cop IMO if this is anywhere near right.

I don’t think that much consideration has been put into it personally. I just think it’s an attempt at intimidation and trying to make the experience of those in s82 a bit worse.

In my opinion, there are people or peoples employed by or involved with the club who don’t like/want s82. All this inconveniencing, intimidation and game playing is attempted provocation. All it would take is one incident in retaliation for the club to use it as justification to shut s82.

Curiously, @JulieH couldn’t possibly tell me which members of club staff are involved in the decision making of where police are placed. That’s suspicious.

[Mkelly]

4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don’t think that much consideration has been put into it personally. I just think it’s an attempt at intimidation and trying to make the experience of those in s82 a bit worse.

In my opinion, there are people or peoples employed by or involved with the club who don’t like/want s82. All this inconveniencing, intimidation and game playing is attempted provocation. All it would take is one incident in retaliation for the club to use it as justification to shut s82.

Curiously, @JulieH couldn’t possibly tell me which members of club staff are involved in the decision making of where police are placed. That’s suspicious.

My offer of a supporters club and trust organised stadium meeting still stands.

In this meeting you can put questions to myself and Dave, we will illustrate the legislations, discuss the reasons behind decisions and show you around.

Reading through the different threads on this theme I feel this is the most relevant way to move on.  

I have an ongoing dialogue with S82 and am very comfortable with the ongoing relationship with them as a supporter group.

@Blagdon red if felt important then I will leave to you to organise with us.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

12 minutes ago, Mkelly said:

My offer of a supporters club and trust organised stadium meeting still stands.

In this meeting you can put questions to myself and Dave, we will illustrate the legislations, discuss the reasons behind decisions and show you around.

Reading through the different threads on this theme I feel this is the most relevant way to move on.  

I have an ongoing dialogue with S82 and am very comfortable with the ongoing relationship with them as a supporter group.

@Blagdon red if felt important then I will leave to you to organise with us.

 

Thanks Mark.

For what it's worth, I think you personally do a good job despite the limitations of SAG and different H&S legislation that clearly makes your job more difficult. It's good that you and Julie do try to keep a dialogue with supporters on here.

Overall, things aren't perfect though. I think there are issues that need exploring - such as the SAG group preventing public access to their minutes. If they were a bit more accessible and accountable, that would help people understand and develop the supporter/club relationship.

I also think the St.George Cross issue was handled very poorly by the club. Including Jon's ridiculous tweet. You were the only club official who came on here to explain, and despite not necessarily agreeing with what you wrote - I appreciate that you were the only member of staff who even attempted dialogue which is a positive.

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

9 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don’t think that much consideration has been put into it personally. I just think it’s an attempt at intimidation and trying to make the experience of those in s82 a bit worse.

In my opinion, there are people or peoples employed by or involved with the club who don’t like/want s82. All this inconveniencing, intimidation and game playing is attempted provocation. All it would take is one incident in retaliation for the club to use it as justification to shut s82.

Curiously, @JulieH couldn’t possibly tell me which members of club staff are involved in the decision making of where police are placed. That’s suspicious.

Which is why the pyros had to be stopped. That would be exactly what those persons would be looking to use as an excuse.

I tried to make this point during the debate on them but some couldn`t/wouldn`t see it.