Rosenior, very harsh on our club

[UREDS_91]

Racial equality will only be achieved when all parties stop mentioning race as a factor. Racial discrimination whether it be positive or negative is still discrimination. People should be chosen on merit and the sooner everyone can see this the better. 

[Super]

Fed up of idiots like this playing the race card.

[sglosbcfc]

Leaving outside Leroy's claims, it would be incredibly naive to think that in the 80s, 90s, even 00s some black managers were not facing discrimination. I remember Ron Noades the Palace chairman coming out with his notorious comments about blacks being ok on a Sunny August day but you wouldn't want too many of them on a wet, cold evening fixture in January.

As regards the comments about City signing black players, that is completely different to putting a black man in charge and the figure head of your club as manager.

[GrahamC]

1 hour ago, Taz said:

Merthyr Tydfil

Torquay

Brentford

Torquay

Sierra Leone

Since he left us as part of the three man band, thats who he managed. That would suggest that he just wasn't a great manager.

It would.

Only problem with that argument is that the bloke who got it ahead of him hasn't managed any other club at all..

[RaspberryRed]

3 hours ago, Up The City! said:

Remember when we choose the white guy over Andy Cole? And Akinbiyi? And countless other black guys? No nor me.

Can't believe we turned down the chance to sign Tammy cos of his skin colour either. 

I can think of many many black players we have signed over the years, in my time of supporting the club, no matter of race, religion, nationality we have always made every effort to make every player and staff members feel welcome and a part of this club.

Albert Adomah is a perfect example of that, worshipped by the club and it's fans.

That's TOTALLY irelevant as the disscussion/debate is around black Managers not players. Let's not skew this debate further

[downendcity]

"Rosenoir didn't get the Bristol City job because he was a rubbish manager", isn't the sort of headline that sells newspapers ( or autobiographies, for that matter).

Having said that, when you look at some of the ex-players who seem to regularly get appointed to decent jobs despite a catalogue of fairly consistent failure or mediocrity at best, it does make you wonder why, when there are so many great black players at the very top of the game these days, so few black players go on to become managers at any level, let alone at top clubs.

[chipdawg]

46 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said:

Racial equality will only be achieved when all parties stop mentioning race as a factor. Racial discrimination whether it be positive or negative is still discrimination. People should be chosen on merit and the sooner everyone can see this the better. 

So we'll only have racial equality when people stop mentioning that there's racial inequality?

I have no idea why Rosenior wasn't given the managers job full time and I doubt Rosenior even knows. Yes Rosenior has proven himself to be shite at management since, but from the outside looking in I think he was probably the more obvious guy to appoint when compared to TF. It could have been any number of things that led to him being overlooked, but if Rosenior thinks it was the colour of his skin then he has every right to say so. People also need to remember that we're not talking about last week, we're talking about nearly 20 years ago and anyone who doesn't think football still had a race problem back then evidently was not attending football matches back then. Appointing a black manager in 1999/2000 would have been quite a big thing and perhaps our board felt that it would have created a circus? That's not 'malicious' racism, but it would still have been down to the colour of his skin

Whatever you think the underlying reasons may be, there is a woeful lack of black managers in British footballer especially in comparison to the number of black players

[Bar BS3]

46 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

It would.

Only problem with that argument is that the bloke who got it ahead of him hasn't managed any other club at all..

Because he was rubbish too. Not because of the colour of his skin. 

[Bar BS3]

24 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

So we'll only have racial equality when people stop mentioning that there's racial inequality?

I have no idea why Rosenior wasn't given the managers job full time and I doubt Rosenior even knows. Yes Rosenior has proven himself to be shite at management since, but from the outside looking in I think he was probably the more obvious guy to appoint when compared to TF. It could have been any number of things that led to him being overlooked, but if Rosenior thinks it was the colour of his skin then he has every right to say so. People also need to remember that we're not talking about last week, we're talking about nearly 20 years ago and anyone who doesn't think football still had a race problem back then evidently was not attending football matches back then. Appointing a black manager in 1999/2000 would have been quite a big thing and perhaps our board felt that it would have created a circus? That's not 'malicious' racism, but it would still have been down to the colour of his skin

Whatever you think the underlying reasons may be, there is a woeful lack of black managers in British footballer especially in comparison to the number of black players

But there are now an abundance of foreign owners of English clubs, still not (very rarely) appointing black managers. 

It's not just white owners not picking black managers. 

It's not white owners of clubs fault that Leroy & Paul Ince are poor managers, or that Powell was found wanting at Championship level, or that there simply don't seem to be many black people who try to move into management. 

Clubs certainly shouldn't be pressured into appointing black managers, simply for fear of the race card being waved at them. 

I doubt Chris hughton will find it difficult getting work once his time at Brighton comes to and end. That's because he's a good manager, not because he has a different skin tone. 

[Guest]

John Barnes came out with the same nonsense, even Graham Taylor basically said it was a poor show coming out with it.

[Red Skin]

The lack of black managers is quite telling.  No disputing that Paul Ince has had his fair share of chances, but very few get the opportunity.  Something doesn't add up given the disproportionate number of black players there's been.

Whether it's overt racism or club owners just picking someone 'like them' from a similar background who knows.   

I've applied for jobs before where a disabled person will always be given the opportunity to interview.  Can't see why the best ethnic minority candidate could be afforded a similar opportunity.  

 

[AshtonGreat]

He would've been 35 years old in 2000. That's very young for a manager and maybe the board thought so, too. If only our current board thought the same...

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Red Army Faction said:

The lack of black managers is quite telling.  No disputing that Paul Ince has had his fair share of chances, but very few get the opportunity.  Something doesn't add up given the disproportionate number of black players there's been.

Whether it's overt racism or club owners just picking someone 'like them' from a similar background who knows.   

I've applied for jobs before where a disabled person will always be given the opportunity to interview.  Can't see why the best ethnic minority candidate could be afforded a similar opportunity.  

 

 

I remember Hasslebaink on Goals on Sunday when it the topic was mentioned, he basically said it was a load of nonsense and every training course he went there were hardly any black people on them getting their badges (if I remember rightly). Also said you need to start at the bottom and prove yourself etc, Barnes seemed to think he should have the right to walk in and manage the likes of Liverpool.

[Midlands Robin]

If I remember correctly Scott Davidson stood down as chairman after being out voted by the board over the appointment of Tony Fawthrop. 

Wasn't this about the time that there were some struggles behind the scenes for control of the boardroom.

[cityloyal473]

8 hours ago, 8menhadadream said:

i was sent this today and it doesn't portray our club well. Personally, I think it says more about Rosenior but political correctness is on his side. Nothing to do with the fact he has no experience, just his skin tone?

http://www.devonlive.com/former-torquay-manager-leroy-rosenior-claims-being-black-cost-him-bristol-city-job/story-30192065-detail/story.html

Leroy: if you were renowned as a good coach or manager you may have got the job, and would likely be employed in that capacity either here or at some other clubs.  That you weren't and haven't been since (less Torquay) leads to one conclusion: you are not a good manager, ergo, you wont be employed as one.  The colour of your skin has nothing to do with it.

You have a regular column in the BP do you not?  Did you get that because of the colour of your skin?  Were you chosen over a better qualified white guy?

[Bar BS3]

Anyone think it's strange that his son would then go on to sign for a club that had treated their dad so appallingly...? 

 

[1960maaan]

From memory the choice for manager after the caretaker spell was deemed unworkable was between Fawthrop , Rosenior and Burnside . Burnside walked away to run the youth set up so choice of one from 2. 
Rosenior was not a shit manager at this point as he had no experience to judge him by. Just checked and I'm wrong a short spell as player manager at Glos City.
Now I can't say for sure but I would imagine the Fawthrop had way more experience in the game, at least off the pitch side of it. When they made the decision I would have taken anyone at that time, but they chose , I accepted and moved on. When Rosenior was at Torquay he looked promising , promoted , but that didn't last though it was always a hard job there. He's since had chances and only THEN proved himself a shit manager. 
To have given him charge of City after only Glos and City Yoof team on his CV, the equivalent of OTIB would have been in meltdown. No one , except the board members at the time , can truly say  why he isn't given the job. 
Didn't Ince say similar things? Mind you he had waited until he'd proved himself as a shit manager.

[UREDS_91]

54 minutes ago, chipdawg said:

So we'll only have racial equality when people stop mentioning that there's racial inequality?

You are taking my comment and skewing it, I mean it in the sense that race shouldn't be used as a factor when employing someone and should be based solely on ability. Not that not mentioning racial inequality means that there isnt any. 

 

[Cider red]

Take away the context of city and turn it to football on the whole: The percentage of black/ethnic footballers going into management coaching in comparison to their white counterparts is low. Possibly there is an inherent problem within the game?

[GrahamC]

40 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

Because he was rubbish too. Not because of the colour of his skin. 

No argument from me, but that was who was chosen ahead of him.

Personally I don't think we should have appointed either of them but a "Rotherham chip shop owner" as Scott Davidson memorably called Fawthrop, who had never played professional football, was fairly clearly the weaker candidate of the two.

I may think that decision smacks of the incompetence that has dogged our managerial appointments right up until now, Leroy Rosenior obviously feels differently.

[1bristolcity]

It's an Autobiography, he has to fill it with something. However he was a popular figure at the 'Gate', but was never deemed managerial status by anyone I seemed to recall, Fawthorp was an odd appointment though, and probably was just a bad an appointment as I can recall, and there is so much to recall.  

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, Super said:

Fed up of idiots like this playing the race card.

So on the basis of no information whatsoever, you have decided that he is 'playing the race card'  Doesn't that smack of, ahem, racism?

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

It would.

Only problem with that argument is that the bloke who got it ahead of him hasn't managed any other club at all..

he lasted a month then we appointed danny wilson

[Taz]

1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

It would.

Only problem with that argument is that the bloke who got it ahead of him hasn't managed any other club at all..

Fair point.

Although his "dodgy dealings" that led to him being given the boot so soon after being given the job, may also be a reason he hasn't managed since.

[Bar BS3]

7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

So on the basis of no information whatsoever, you have decided that he is 'playing the race card'  Doesn't that smack of, ahem, racism?

I think the fact that Leroy himself sees himself as a "black football manager" and not a "football manager" is what irks people. 

Until the colour of skin stops being an issue to all people, racism will continue to smoulder away. 

I don't like the paper and I don't know who wrote the article, but this piece puts it fairly well....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2065754/The-lack-black-football-managers-racism.html

[Clarky89]

This whole thing annoys me.

• The percentage of managers that are ex footballers is extremely high. 
• Percentage of black players that were in previous generations was low. 
• Apply rule of averages and then most managers will be white. 

In 20/30 years when the current generation has retired from playing you'll have a much more even spread of white and black managers. 

It's nothing to do with anything other than there aren't as many black managers. 

[Robbored]

32 minutes ago, Cider red said:

Take away the context of city and turn it to football on the whole: The percentage of black/ethnic footballers going into management coaching in comparison to their white counterparts is low. Possibly there is an inherent problem within the game?

100% correct but is that down to ability as managers or because of skin colour? 

To me (being a white guy) it's about ability or lack of it that makes the difference. I find it hard to believe that if any club has two decent applicants one white and one black that the white guy is a shoe in.

Rosenior is bringing up an old chestnut here. Chip and shoulder springs to mind.

[chipdawg]

30 minutes ago, streety_bcfc said:

You are taking my comment and skewing it, I mean it in the sense that race shouldn't be used as a factor when employing someone and should be based solely on ability. Not that not mentioning racial inequality means that there isnt any. 

 

I agree I was being slightly mischievous, but you're still working from the assumption that there is no racial inequality. There certainly still is (and certainly was in 2000) in general society, we can only speculate on it in this case. As I said, there was still a lot of racism in football back in 2000 and while there is has been immeasurable improvement in the last 17 years, I don't think it's quite yet a paragon of racial virtue- either on the terraces or in the boardroom

[the frampton balti]

9 hours ago, 8menhadadream said:

i was sent this today and it doesn't portray our club well. Personally, I think it says more about Rosenior but political correctness is on his side. Nothing to do with the fact he has no experience, just his skin tone?

http://www.devonlive.com/former-torquay-manager-leroy-rosenior-claims-being-black-cost-him-bristol-city-job/story-30192065-detail/story.html

Thinking back, Rosenior certainly seemed the most obvious candidate. i think he has a valid point , this would explain why he sometimes shows indifference to the club, which in turn explains why certain fans seem to show resentment to him. 

considering the period of disharmony we have just been/are currently going through with regard to management and board decisions , why do some people find it difficult to believe that the board would make poor decisions on the basis of prejudice favouritism or even pure racism in the past.

Leroy is entitled to his opinion and I also believe he was the right man  for the job at the time.

[chipdawg]

1 hour ago, Bar BS3 said:

But there are now an abundance of foreign owners of English clubs, still not (very rarely) appointing black managers. 

It's not just white owners not picking black managers. 

It's not white owners of clubs fault that Leroy & Paul Ince are poor managers, or that Powell was found wanting at Championship level, or that there simply don't seem to be many black people who try to move into management. 

Clubs certainly shouldn't be pressured into appointing black managers, simply for fear of the race card being waved at them. 

I doubt Chris hughton will find it difficult getting work once his time at Brighton comes to and end. That's because he's a good manager, not because he has a different skin tone. 

But we're not talking about 'now' we're talking about 17 years ago. And even I except what you're saying is true (which I don't because I doubt very much that Sheik Mansour at Man City personally hires all the managers and coaches), the issue is not really at the top level, it's at the bottom of the pyramid. Where are all the black managers and coaches in League One and Two? Or in the conference? I have no idea whether it's down to racism or any number of other factors, but you can't pretend it isn't the case. Rosenior, Powell and Ince have all been proved to not have the right stuff, but I would hope that they're not being used as a reason not to hire other black managers- that would be racist in itself. It's also worth pointing out that no one knew that Rosenior was shit in 2000. In fact, the limited evidence we had was that he could be a half decent manager. Using hindsight it's fair to say it's a good job we didn't appoint him, but that isn't the reason he was overlooked back then