Wright or flint

[Nogbad the Bad]

13 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think some do use that 'Little Lee' nickname in a derogatory way.

Not quite the same as calling someone 'Big'. In the context of being a manager/leader - clearly the connotation by some is a negative one designed to undermine LJ as an authority figure.

No doubt some some do, others use it as a term of endearment, others still will think nothing either way when using it as a nickname.

The point is 'Little Lee' is not a big deal, especially as it's not exclusively a BCFC fan thing - he's been referred to it at previous clubs, notably Yeovil before City, and Barnsley afterwards.

The over reaction of the outraged few who are so offended they feel the need to call out posters on his behalf is bordering on the bizarre, but oh so typical of 'Wet Britain' 2017.

[glynriley]

Lee Johnson is missing a trick here. If I was him I'd have 'LL cool J ' on my tracksuit!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

15 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

No doubt some some do, others use it as a term of endearment, others still will think nothing either way when using it as a nickname.

The point is 'Little Lee' is not a big deal, especially as it's not exclusively a BCFC fan thing - he's been referred to it at previous clubs, notably Yeovil before City, and Barnsley afterwards.

The over reaction of the outraged few who are so offended they feel the need to call out posters on his behalf is bordering on the bizarre, but oh so typical of 'Wet Britain' 2017.

Not a big deal - but it clearly is used by some as an attempt to undermine. Don't think anyone's particularly offended by it per se, just calling it for what it is.

[Nogbad the Bad]

8 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Not a big deal - but it clearly is used by some as an attempt to undermine. Don't think anyone's particularly offended by it per se, just calling it for what it is.

That's not how I see it, it's quite clear people are calling it out even when they have no idea how it was meant, and absolutely assuming it is derogatory.

Btw, how does the extremely mild long term nickname 'Little Lee' undermine him exactly?

 

[Monkeh]

11 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Some offended by little lee ? Calm down it wasn't a dig the dig was he's not man enough to drop wright for flint !!! Harry done a job on flint stringing him along I feel then by signing harlee dean (cheaper) created a situation that little lee has to sort out know not sure how he will manage it and obviously wasn't helped by sl stupid comment of we would take 10mill for flint ! 

this post is so wrong it makes my head hurt,

first off it was a dig, why say is Little Lee man enough if it wasn't

Second, Harry never did a job on Flint nether did he create a situation, harry wanted to sign him and didn't meet our valuation, if anyone is to blame for creating a situation it's flint and his agent, and then it's hardly flint as he and the club have been very professional about the whole affair,

Thirdly SL never said anything about we would take 10 million, please quote a direct link if you think I'm wrong, Lansdown actually said we have a valuation, and when pressed on it he said 5 million and we'll talk, 

Forth, what ius there to sort out? even without all this transfer nonsense I doubt Flint would be in the team at the moment as he's being kept out by two much better defenders

[Phileas Fogg]

32 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

That's not how I see it, it's quite clear people are calling it out even when they have no idea how it was meant, and absolutely assuming it is derogatory.

Btw, how does the extremely mild long term nickname 'Little Lee' undermine him exactly?

Some would see it as bad to be a shorter man in a position of management/authority. Emphasising it feels like an attempt by some to undermine his authority. Simple as that really - 'napoleon complex' etc. I'm sure you're aware of this.

I don't really care and have no desire to get drawn into a debate on minutiae (no pun intended) like this but that's my opinion on its usage by some.

[spudski]

We've certainly got depth in the CB department. Each player has their own attributes and strengths.

It's a nice option to have so many to choose from.

Especially when looking at the forwards they will be playing against in this league, and the different styles.

If I had to choose...considering what CM they have in front of them, then I'd go for Baker/Wright.

If we had a commanding DCM...then I'd love to see Hegeler/Baker.

I know some fans don't rate Hegeler, as a 'Traditional' CB...But he wins a lot of first headers, and I love a CB who can actually play football, bring the ball out of defence, find a pass or some space. Who although looks languid, covers the ground well. I think that brings a lot to a team....especially if you have a really good DCM in front of him.

I really do hope we get that DCM upgrade in January.

For me, because of our very average CM imo, our CB's get to work overtime. This happened last season. I think the lack of agility and speed in the CB pairing of Flint/Wright got found out a little last season. Too east to turn and manipulate by faster forwards imo.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

3 minutes ago, spudski said:

We've certainly got depth in the CB department. Each player has their own attributes and strengths.

It's a nice option to have so many to choose from.

Especially when looking at the forwards they will be playing against in this league, and the different styles.

If I had to choose...considering what CM they have in front of them, then I'd go for Baker/Wright.

If we had a commanding DCM...then I'd love to see Hegeler/Baker.

I know some fans don't rate Hegeler, as a 'Traditional' CB...But he wins a lot of first headers, and I love a CB who can actually play football, bring the ball out of defence, find a pass or some space. Who although looks languid, covers the ground well. I think that brings a lot to a team....especially if you have a really good DCM in front of him.

I really do hope we get that DCM upgrade in January.

For me, because of our very average CM imo, our CB's get to work overtime. This happened last season. I think the lack of agility and speed in the CB pairing of Flint/Wright got found out a little last season. Too east to turn and manipulate by faster forwards imo.

Firstly let me thank you for the highlighted portion something that I have been banging on about for over 2 years, last season we had the added problem of under performing full backs also heaping pressure on the CB's, that seems to have been addressed.

A good manager/coach might look at opponents and decide for instance if when playing against QPR or other opponents and Matt Smith or similarly built players are playing it might be prudent to play Flint.

Also maybe if our CM woes continue, perhaps a temporary solution might be 3-5-2, a line up that LJ tried at Forest last season resulting in a 1- 0 defeat and that to a wonder free kick if memory serves and never to be tried again.

[spudski]

5 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Firstly let me thank you for the highlighted portion something that I have been banging on about for over 2 years, last season we had the added problem of under performing full backs also heaping pressure on the CB's, that seems to have been addressed.

A good manager/coach might look at opponents and decide for instance if when playing against QPR or other opponents and Matt Smith or similarly built players are playing it might be prudent to play Flint.

Also maybe if our CM woes continue, perhaps a temporary solution might be 3-5-2, a line up that LJ tried at Forest last season resulting in a 1- 0 defeat and that to a wonder free kick if memory serves and never to be tried again.

I think our CM will be our next port of call when upgrading EMB. Hopefully in the January window.

Perhaps they are waiting for that one player to drop into place and become available. Maybe they feel they can get by 'til then.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

I think our CM will be our next port of call when upgrading EMB. Hopefully in the January window.

Perhaps they are waiting for that one player to drop into place and become available. Maybe they feel they can get by 'til then.

Several things, firstly I don't have any faith whatsoever that that will be the case, I really don't think LJ see CM as a problem and secondly if last season is anything to go by, by January we could already be in another relegation scrap.

[Leveller]

15 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think some do use that 'Little Lee' nickname in a derogatory way.

Not quite the same as calling someone 'Big'. In the context of being a manager/leader - clearly the connotation by some is a negative one designed to undermine LJ as an authority figure.

It's quite mild, but taken in the context of the critical post, it appears derogatory. It's difficult to remember any positive posts about LJ that call him Little Lee.

[spudski]

6 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Several things, firstly I don't have any faith whatsoever that that will be the case, I really don't think LJ see CM as a problem and secondly if last season is anything to go by, by January we could already be in another relegation scrap.

We'll have to wait an see EMB...I like what I've watched so far this season...not perfect, but then what team is?

I think our signings and loans show a lot of promise.

Hopefully they'll prove you wrong and it will be an enjoyable season for all of us ;-)

[Nogbad the Bad]

3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

Some would see it as bad to be a shorter man in a position of management/authority. Emphasising it feels like an attempt by some to undermine his authority. Simple as that really - 'napoleon complex' etc. I'm sure you're aware of this.

I don't really care and have no desire to get drawn into a debate on minutiae like this but that's my opinion on its usage by some.

Using a very long term nickname has suddenly become an attempt to undermine his authority?

Well, I asked you to explain your reasoning, but 'some would see it' that way is really poor tbh. I could counter that with ' well, most wouldn't'. You mentioning the 'Napoleon complex' with all it's negative connotations - though really nothing to do with the discussion in hand - is far, far worse than the widespread use of the entirely harmless 'Little Lee'.

You clearly do care PF, either that or you're choosing to get upset on someone else's behalf - one of those reasons is why you're choosing to embroil yourself in this discussion.

If you really don't care, I look forward to you not picking me - or others -  up on it, next time you see it and arguing it's usage has somehow become reprehensible

It is no doubt a phrase that you will continue to see regularly on OTIB, in the vast majority of cases in an entirely benign way by posters without any malicious thought whatsoever.

[Negan]

We'll see just how good Wright and Baker are this month. Reading, Wolves, Norwich and Ipswich away. All places we rarely get anything. Johnson's and the defences biggest test coming up. I also think Stoke will field a strong team so hopefully Flint will get his chance there is he hasn't done by then.

 

I do think Wright and Baker are our best option at the moment, with Bailey being our best defender. Also worth noting that providing it's not an injury or red card, if Flint does get back in the team it means we're not doing so well! So hopefully he stays on the bench until January and gets his luxury move to Birmingham then. 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Using a very long term nickname has suddenly become an attempt to undermine his authority?

Well, I asked you to explain your reasoning, but 'some would see it' that way is really poor tbh. I could counter that with ' well, most wouldn't'. You mentioning the 'Napoleon complex' with all it's negative connotations - though really nothing to do with the discussion in hand - is far, far worse than the widespread use of the entirely harmless 'Little Lee'.

You clearly do care PF, either that or you're choosing to get upset on someone else's behalf - one of those reasons is why you're choosing to embroil yourself in this discussion.

If you really don't care, I look forward to you not picking me - or others -  up on it, next time you see it and arguing it's usage has somehow become reprehensible

It is no doubt a phrase that you will continue to see regularly on OTIB, in the vast majority of cases in an entirely benign way by posters without any malicious thought whatsoever.

Strange - I'm genuinely not bothered, just explaining the thought process. You did ask me the question after all. It's almost as if you want to think people are 'offended' by it.

 

[RedRoss]

12 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Using a very long term nickname has suddenly become an attempt to undermine his authority?

Well, I asked you to explain your reasoning, but 'some would see it' that way is really poor tbh. I could counter that with ' well, most wouldn't'. You mentioning the 'Napoleon complex' with all it's negative connotations - though really nothing to do with the discussion in hand - is far, far worse than the widespread use of the entirely harmless 'Little Lee'.

You clearly do care PF, either that or you're choosing to get upset on someone else's behalf - one of those reasons is why you're choosing to embroil yourself in this discussion.

If you really don't care, I look forward to you not picking me - or others -  up on it, next time you see it and arguing it's usage has somehow become reprehensible

It is no doubt a phrase that you will continue to see regularly on OTIB, in the vast majority of cases in an entirely benign way by posters without any malicious thought whatsoever.

In my opinion that term is definitely used in a negative way to describe not only Lee's physical stature but also his managerial stature too. Definitely another way to undermine the guy. 

Can't say that's people's intentions but that's how I see it. 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 minutes ago, spudski said:

We'll have to wait an see EMB...I like what I've watched so far this season...not perfect, but then what team is?

I think our signings and loans show a lot of promise.

Hopefully they'll prove you wrong and it will be an enjoyable season for all of us ;-)

Apart from the obvious defensive improvement, I see little difference from last season, 1 really good performance, 30 minutes of a good performance, 1 awful performance (resulting in a lucky point), 1 totally uninspiring performance where we ran out of ideas and never had the players or tactics to change the course of the game and 1 reasonable draw where we created little or nothing.

It is still a hotch potch lacking in consistency, 1 good performance in 5.

To clarify I love the building for the future buying young, hungry and talented players, but I also believe that the here and was badly neglected last season and resulted in a panic buying spree in January and although yes I believe that we do now have a stronger squad, our midfield is easy to manipulate as 'Arry boy did, as Brentford and Millwall did, crowd midfield, bully us and we will retreat and surrender the midfield.

However 1 very important difference I spotted against Villa was this, having taken the lead, we immediately surrendered midfield territory resulting them in over running us in that area and although the goal was a wicked deflection it came as no real surprise. Mine and I suspect many others at that stage believed 'here we go again' another defeat from a winning position but our midfield stepped up and took up a higher line once more and once more looked comfortable in the game. The question is why did we retreat in the first place?, but at least we rectified it quickly for a change.

[Monkeh]

10 minutes ago, RedRoss said:

In my opinion that term is definitely used in a negative way to describe not only Lee's physical stature but also his managerial stature too. Definitely another way to undermine the guy. 

Can't say that's people's intentions but that's how I see it. 

 

it's used both ways as a dig and using as a term of affection,

You can tell by the tone of the post which why it's being used, ie. Little Lee isn't man enough, this is negitive and used to attack him,

Little lee is starting to win some over, this is positive and used as a term of affection,

You need to see the context it's being used in, and you can generally tell which way a post is going to go by the way the poster uses it,

[Monkeh]

13 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Apart from the obvious defensive improvement, I see little difference from last season, 1 really good performance, 30 minutes of a good performance, 1 awful performance (resulting in a lucky point), 1 totally uninspiring performance where we ran out of ideas and never had the players or tactics to change the course of the game and 1 reasonable draw where we created little or nothing.

It is still a hotch potch lacking in consistency, 1 good performance in 5.

To clarify I love the building for the future buying young, hungry and talented players, but I also believe that the here and was badly neglected last season and resulted in a panic buying spree in January and although yes I believe that we do now have a stronger squad, our midfield is easy to manipulate as 'Arry boy did, as Brentford and Millwall did, crowd midfield, bully us and we will retreat and surrender the midfield.

However 1 very important difference I spotted against Villa was this, having taken the lead, we immediately surrendered midfield territory resulting them in over running us in that area and although the goal was a wicked deflection it came as no real surprise. Mine and I suspect many others at that stage believed 'here we go again' another defeat from a winning position but our midfield stepped up and took up a higher line once more and once more looked comfortable in the game. The question is why did we retreat in the first place?, but at least we rectified it quickly for a change.

I've seen a massive difference so far, we look tighter and more dangerous, I think we are on for a midtable finish,

which I'll be happy with, but the centre of midfield has been a problem for a long time and something I expect will be the first area to strengthen in Jan if the right kinds of players are available or some of the under 23 really start to push

[spudski]

10 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Apart from the obvious defensive improvement, I see little difference from last season, 1 really good performance, 30 minutes of a good performance, 1 awful performance (resulting in a lucky point), 1 totally uninspiring performance where we ran out of ideas and never had the players or tactics to change the course of the game and 1 reasonable draw where we created little or nothing.

It is still a hotch potch lacking in consistency, 1 good performance in 5.

To clarify I love the building for the future buying young, hungry and talented players, but I also believe that the here and was badly neglected last season and resulted in a panic buying spree in January and although yes I believe that we do now have a stronger squad, our midfield is easy to manipulate as 'Arry boy did, as Brentford and Millwall did, crowd midfield, bully us and we will retreat and surrender the midfield.

However 1 very important difference I spotted against Villa was this, having taken the lead, we immediately surrendered midfield territory resulting them in over running us in that area and although the goal was a wicked deflection it came as no real surprise. Mine and I suspect many others at that stage believed 'here we go again' another defeat from a winning position but our midfield stepped up and took up a higher line once more and once more looked comfortable in the game. The question is why did we retreat in the first place?, but at least we rectified it quickly for a change.

You mention the Villa deflected goal EMB...LJ was quick to play that down, by saying we could have done better and closed the player down quicker.

I think he does see the same things as us, and will know where we need strengthening.

He will have targets for that department.

I'm sure he'd love to strengthen there.

My guess is, they have players in mind and are just waiting for them to fall into place at the right time.

We don't have the benefit of knowing contract details, who wants to play for whom etc etc.

I'd rather wait a while and get the right player, rather than a stop gap for short term.

We've probably had to take a sideways step, or even backward step, after gambling on the success of Tomlin.

That has obviously backfired and they've gone back to the drawing board. Such is football.

[downendcity]

13 minutes ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

Apart from the obvious defensive improvement, I see little difference from last season, 1 really good performance, 30 minutes of a good performance, 1 awful performance (resulting in a lucky point), 1 totally uninspiring performance where we ran out of ideas and never had the players or tactics to change the course of the game and 1 reasonable draw where we created little or nothing.

It is still a hotch potch lacking in consistency, 1 good performance in 5.

To clarify I love the building for the future buying young, hungry and talented players, but I also believe that the here and was badly neglected last season and resulted in a panic buying spree in January and although yes I believe that we do now have a stronger squad, our midfield is easy to manipulate as 'Arry boy did, as Brentford and Millwall did, crowd midfield, bully us and we will retreat and surrender the midfield.

However 1 very important difference I spotted against Villa was this, having taken the lead, we immediately surrendered midfield territory resulting them in over running us in that area and although the goal was a wicked deflection it came as no real surprise. Mine and I suspect many others at that stage believed 'here we go again' another defeat from a winning position but our midfield stepped up and took up a higher line once more and once more looked comfortable in the game. The question is why did we retreat in the first place?, but at least we rectified it quickly for a change.

Think this tends to be an almost automatic reaction for most teams.

Back when I was playing, I can well remember most  managers shouting to keep it tight  and not concede as  you are at your most vulnerable immediately after scoring. 

Is it an instinctive reaction for pros to do exactly the same thing and not necessarily because the manager has demanded it? 

I like the sound of us playing a high pressing game but also think that when we gain the advantage we should press it home by continuing to put the pressure on the opposition. Last season we had a weak underbelly so that even a 3 goal lead wasn't safe but we seem more solid this year, so perhaps we can afford to be a bit more aggressive with our tactics and playing style.

[man in the middle]

Wright 

[bengalcub]

Monkeh , sl did say on the news he would take £10m for flint therefore putting him in the shop window . 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, bengalcub said:

Monkeh , sl did say on the news he would take £10m for flint therefore putting him in the shop window . 

I think basically 'if anyone offers £5m+ we will talk, if our price isn't matched we won't budge' was what he said 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

2 hours ago, Monkeh said:

I've seen a massive difference so far, we look tighter and more dangerous, I think we are on for a midtable finish,

which I'll be happy with, but the centre of midfield has been a problem for a long time and something I expect will be the first area to strengthen in Jan if the right kinds of players are available or some of the under 23 really start to push

For one game and half an hour of the 2nd.

The 3rd game we got lucky but to our credit kept on until the end.

The 4th game we ran out of ideas against a limited team and created very few clear cut chances, Millwall deserved their point.

The 5th game 2 teams of equal ability/inability, we held our own and improved from the previous 3 performances, this is a very average Villa team, again neither teams created a lot.

I hope you are right about a mid table finish, my fear is teams know how the best way to play against is

2 hours ago, downendcity said:

Think this tends to be an almost automatic reaction for most teams.

Back when I was playing, I can well remember most  managers shouting to keep it tight  and not concede as  you are at your most vulnerable immediately after scoring. 

Is it an instinctive reaction for pros to do exactly the same thing and not necessarily because the manager has demanded it? 

I like the sound of us playing a high pressing game but also think that when we gain the advantage we should press it home by continuing to put the pressure on the opposition. Last season we had a weak underbelly so that even a 3 goal lead wasn't safe but we seem more solid this year, so perhaps we can afford to be a bit more aggressive with our tactics and playing style.

I agree and I am not suggesting LJ demanded that, but they are professionals and should be above a instinctive reaction, they have most of the week to prepare and drill themselves into not falling into the same old traps.

And your post furthers my overall problem with our CM and that is Smith and Pack whinge and whine a lot but neither possesses a football brain or a leaders brain, neither organise, neither has a 90 minute discipline, it needs a proper leader who makes them step up and not step back.

In many ways Smith and Pack are a perfect CM combination, Smith is a better tackler and has a better engine, Pack is a better passer but can also tackle, if only one of them could organise the midfield troops, realise when they are light in numbers and get somebody back and make sure they recognise midfield runners, but 2 years or more down the line they don't and they can't.

Also please why is Pack the main free kick guy?.

[chinapig]

20 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I think some do use that 'Little Lee' nickname in a derogatory way.

Not quite the same as calling someone 'Big'. In the context of being a manager/leader - clearly the connotation by some is a negative one designed to undermine LJ as an authority figure.

Quite. The idea that it is used as a neutral term or even an affectionate one doesn't stand up. It is pretty much used as rather childish name calling by those who dislike him.

[Monkeh]

1 hour ago, Esmond Million's Bung said:

For one game and half an hour of the 2nd.

The 3rd game we got lucky but to our credit kept on until the end.

The 4th game we ran out of ideas against a limited team and created very few clear cut chances, Millwall deserved their point.

The 5th game 2 teams of equal ability/inability, we held our own and improved from the previous 3 performances, this is a very average Villa team, again neither teams created a lot.

I hope you are right about a mid table finish, my fear is teams know how the best way to play against is

I agree and I am not suggesting LJ demanded that, but they are professionals and should be above a instinctive reaction, they have most of the week to prepare and drill themselves into not falling into the same old traps.

And your post furthers my overall problem with our CM and that is Smith and Pack whinge and whine a lot but neither possesses a football brain or a leaders brain, neither organise, neither has a 90 minute discipline, it needs a proper leader who makes them step up and not step back.

In many ways Smith and Pack are a perfect CM combination, Smith is a better tackler and has a better engine, Pack is a better passer but can also tackle, if only one of them could organise the midfield troops, realise when they are light in numbers and get somebody back and make sure they recognise midfield runners, but 2 years or more down the line they don't and they can't.

Also please why is Pack the main free kick guy?.

last season we would of lost to millwall villa and brentford, we'd of caved under pressure

[Monkeh]

2 hours ago, bengalcub said:

Monkeh , sl did say on the news he would take £10m for flint therefore putting him in the shop window . 

no he didn't find the quote, he actually said 5 million and we'll talk,

[Chairman Mao]

7 hours ago, shelts said:

We wouldn't be lacking in inches Major!!

Steady on.

[AppyDAZE]

Subs bench, cup matches and in for suspended / injured players for Flint now. He made his bed... and like people have said, the back four looks decent and needs to continue.