Diony

[spudski]

7 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Diony made half a dozen or more brilliant runs all of which came to nothing as we've nobody at the club who's remotely on his wavelength or timeline. Not once did the ball get to him. Those of you preoccupied with the ball wouldn't have even seen them. He's Maynard and requires quick ( and I mean quick) ball to feet in front of him down the channels. Every run he made yesterday was over three seconds before our midfield even realised he'd gone.

If there's a criticism of Diony make it at WeeLee and our scouts - why recruit a player whose game is nullified by our ponderous and over-elaborate supply line? Wrong bloke in wrong system.

I completely agree with this. Whilst his 'general' play was questionable, he did look for runs off the shoulder of the last defender. However, he was often the wrong side of his defender when doing this. And got hustled out of position.

You are right about him fitting in with our system. It really stood out.

So...he's trained with us a while now, The Coaching staff must see something day in day out in training. If he played like yesterday in training...then surely he wouldn't be trusted to play? So he must be doing something right in training to have been trusted.

So did he forget to play 'our way' or did the rest of the team not change to his strengths?

Personally I think it was the former. It reminded me of when we had Tomlin...10 men doing one thing, 1 doing his own thing.

I questioned Kent in his first few games, but yesterday, you could see how he now fitted our way. He changed his game to fit us. And we benefitted for it. He gave us energy and a directness, but it didn't effect our pattern at all.

The problem we have now, is that we have only 15 games left and a bundle of teams all capable of making the play offs.

Do we have time to risk someone getting up to speed and being a massive cause to us losing points?

If we miss out on the play offs...I will look back on yesterdays game as the biggest mistake of the season.

I can't believe Diony is that bad a player...he must have talent. But he hasn't shown it yet. He really needs to get up to speed quick fast and ingrain our system and how we play. He let us down massively yesterday imo. People say about coming from a foreign shores and taking time to settle etc, but if that was a one off cup game yesterday, say a Europa Cup game, then he would have had a shocker with no excuses.

Tomlin dragged our players down, and we often looked disjointed when he played...I witnessed exactly that when Diony came on yesterday. He effected everyones game, as the movement was completely different to how we play. Maybe a talent...but yesterday was a massive square peg in a small round hole.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Wrong game to bring on Diony yesterday, it should have been Gus imo.

Apparently Diony's been ill in bed half the week, but LJ obviously saw it as an opportunity for him to get off the mark, and get his confidence up, against what he saw as a demoralised and already beaten Sunderland team.

It backfired badly as Sunderland got back in the game, he missed one great chance, and now many fans have written him off.

Poor decision by LJ to put him on at h/t instead of Engvall and a great shame for the player whose confidence will now be reduced.

[CityCiderEd]

If you can't bring a player on when you are leading the game 3-0 with the oppositions appalling defensive record then when the hell do you bring him on.He certainly wasn't brought in on the form he has shown this season.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, CityCiderEd said:

If you can't bring a player on when you are leading the game 3-0 with an appalling defensive record then when the hell do you bring him on.He certainly wasn't brought in on the form he has shown this season.

You could say the same about Engvall who hadn't suffered with flu all week.

[CityCiderEd]

2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

You could say the same about Engvall who hadn't suffered with flu all week.

Is that an actual fact that he had flu or is "apparently" meaning you don't really know?

 

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, CityCiderEd said:

Is that an actual fact that he had flu or is "apparently" meaning you don't really know?

 

I'm taking it from comments on here to that effect before the match.

[pillred]

15 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said:

Why haven’t we,seems a lot on here will be happy with 9th or 10th so we got loads of luxury time

I think you will find people would have been happy with 9th 10th before the season started, not many would be happy now, me certainly anyway.

[BITW]

34 minutes ago, Super said:

I see the weak central defenders and the left back have got away with it. Certainly not down to diony why we threw away a 3 goal lead. 

Have to say as much as I agree with much of the criticism on this thread, it’s baffling me how our defenders seem to be getting off scot free after conceding a 3-0 lead! Bryan caught out countless times AGAIN yesterday and it’s so noticeable how teams target our left hand side.

Still not convinced Joes future is at LB. Also can’t wait until Baker is back he’s a massive miss for us. 

[Phileas Fogg]

4 minutes ago, BITW said:

Have to say as much as I agree with much of the criticism on this thread, it’s baffling me how our defenders seem to be getting off scot free after conceding a 3-0 lead! Bryan caught out countless times AGAIN yesterday and it’s so noticeable how teams target our left hand side.

Still not convinced Joes future is at LB. Also can’t wait until Baker is back he’s a massive miss for us. 

I agree, I just can’t imagine us losing that 3 goal lead with Baker in the team. He’s essential to any hopes of promotion we have and without him I’m not sure if we’ve got it in us.

[pillred]

14 hours ago, spudski said:

Foggy...would be interested to know what positives you've seen in him. I haven't seen anything yet...no speed, not particularly strong , even though he calls himself 'bull like', not great technically, very poor positionally, not great at heading, no composure, didn't read the game well, didn't track back as much, no energy, poor decision making.

I'd love to know what our Scouts have seen in him that would fit with our system of play.

I haven't witnessed one positive yet...even if you gave him time.

He'd have to become a completely different player to what he is now to impress.

hard to disagree with any of that unfortunately.

[Phileas Fogg]

15 hours ago, spudski said:

Foggy...would be interested to know what positives you've seen in him. I haven't seen anything yet...no speed, not particularly strong , even though he calls himself 'bull like', not great technically, very poor positionally, not great at heading, no composure, didn't read the game well, didn't track back as much, no energy, poor decision making.

I'd love to know what our Scouts have seen in him that would fit with our system of play.

I haven't witnessed one positive yet...even if you gave him time.

He'd have to become a completely different player to what he is now to impress.

Sorry only just seen this.

For me, I saw far more in the QPR game for me to think he's worth giving time, even when playing as a lone forward. Ironic because apparently he is far better in a front 2 as he was yesterday, especially when you consider Diedhiou speaks the same first language!

I actually think he does have speed, he showed vs QPR. He does have strength, he held the ball up a few times even yesterday and put in a few good challenges. I think he actually is fine technically too. He did a few layoffs - some came off and some didn't. There was one horrible poor control when he first came on. The errors he made were sloppy, including that hash he made of the shot. They're the sort of errors you don't make with a full pre-season... that's another argument altogether about whether it's prudent to acquire a player who clearly needs time during Jan.

Assuming the rumours about him having flu are true - that's also a factor. If you've ever had bad flu it really does knock for for six. 

I think part of the issue was that he replaced Reid, and is clearly very different stylistically. Reid drops into that pocket between midfield and attack, he was playing really well before he came off and was causing all sorts of problems. It makes us more potent through the centre and the ball he played Diedhiou in with to score is exactly what Diony requires. We were left with Smith and Pack who were both playing deeper, and neither had much opportunity to play those through balls to Diony's feet that Reid may have done.

I think on paper his attributes are what we lack in our forwards. We miss someone who plays on the shoulder who has pace.

For me, it's a pet hate of mine when people are so quick to criticise players. He's played 85 mins of football, 25 of which as part of 10 men after 1 day of training and 20 in a tough game with Bolton. Circumstances haven't been ideal for him.

Ideally for players like him you'd buy him early summer and give him a full pre-season to bed in, get fit and understand our system. We took a risk bringing him in during January.

[RedM]

2 hours ago, Redtucks said:

It used to.....

John Galley???

Joe Royle???

 

Carl Shutt. One of the very few home games I have missed, bloody work do I couldn’t get out of. Didn’t he score 4, on his home debut or did I just remember it with rage.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, spudski said:

 

I questioned Kent in his first few games, but yesterday, you could see how he now fitted our way. He changed his game to fit us. And we benefitted for it. He gave us energy and a directness, but it didn't effect our pattern at all.

 

And compare Diony to Kent. Kent has now had a couple of starts and an extra couple of games. Diony is still in his 'first few games' territory and limited to only sub appearances. 

He can still adapt and learn, I'm pretty comfortable he could too given the chance. You can never recreate the intensity in training, what he needs is to be on the pitch with the manager and his other 10 barking instructions at him. 3 nil up not the time for that because again the intensity is gone - wrongly, and by 3-2 it's rabbit in headlights territory. 

He needs a run of 2 or 3 starts which unfortunately he looks unlikely to get. In an ideal world we would have picked him up pre Diedhou returning and he would have got that. Circumstances like that may make the loan ultimately unsuccessful. 

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

18 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

 

For me, it's a pet hate of mine when people are so quick to criticise players. He's played 85 mins of football, 25 of which as part of 10 men after 1 day of training and 20 in a tough game with Bolton. Circumstances haven't been ideal for him.

I forgive anything and everything anyone might have said yesterday.  Football is a passionate game and to see your team squander a three goal leave is probably as bad as it gets.  I’m racking my brains to think whether I’ve ever seen it before in 50 years of watching City (I wasn’t at Derby last season).  

In the cold light of the next day I don’t criticise the half time substitution.  Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but I didn’t hear one person around me in the Dolman express the view that it was the wrong substitution to make, assuming that Bobby was injured.  My frustration is with the players for being complacent and arrogant and feeling they could afford to squander all those second half chances, and that Lee didn’t spot the need to make a change when Sunderland scored their first goal.  

But I’m not surprised the moaners were out.  For six hours I became one myself, as I did after the thrashing at Preston last season (for which i’m still embarrassed).  But if you can’t let rip after what happened yesterday, when can you?

[Davefevs]

18 hours ago, RT's Vaseline Tub said:

Should have given Engvall a go when Bobby got injured as that guy not worth the £9m Ashton quoted - more like 900k

Is that hindsight?  Would you seriously have given Gus the nod at h-t?  I doubt it.  I wanted to see Gus at 60-65 minutes when Diedhiou was knackered.

18 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

It's like groundhog day on here. It's 2018 and people are STILL writing off signings ridiculously quickly.

Matt Smith and Diedhiou proving them convincingly wrong after premature judgements should teach people not to do it.. but still here we are.

Clearly rusty, not on the same wavelength as the players and his movement isn't where it should be - all of those things improve with game-time.

 

This!  It seems that Diony is yesterday’s scapegoat.  We lost our shape with Kent and Pato’s roaming and the service he got wasn’t great as a result, not will the runs he’s practiced with the team been relevant with the change in the way we played in the second half.  He got balls into him under pressure and in the main, Got it under and moved it on.  Wasn’t brilliant, but wasn’t dire either.  I dispair at the views on here at times.

17 hours ago, winsaw said:

I can see he has ability, he gets in the right position a lot, he knows how to work a center back but when the ball gets to him he looks so nervous can't help but think once he has a goal he will look like a different player, 

Yes, he’s trying to find his confidence and form.  He played a lovely little lob pass to Kent who almost / should’ve scored.  He’s got something.

EDIT; it was Famara.  Sorry

16 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Haha.  Or perhaps Diony was due to start today but had the flu this week (which he did) so started on the bench instead. Then when Bobby took a knock in the first half and we were 3-0 he was brought on as he was fit enough to play 45 and there is no question he has been brought into play games.

Of course his jaded performance could be attributed to the fact he wasn't fully fit, but then that wouldn't fit with the weird agenda you have with me and others (like Nick J) that know things you don't.  Natural human emotion I suppose but you don't half seem to get your knickers in a twist.

What?  A rational bit of logic?  Mods - ban him, burn him at the stake!  He he 

[Phileas Fogg]

7 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I forgive anything and everything anyone might have said yesterday.  Football is a passionate game and to see your team squander a three goal leave is probably as bad as it gets.  I’m racking my brains to think whether I’ve ever seen it before in 50 years of watching City (I wasn’t at Derby last season).  

In the cold light of the next day I don’t criticise the half time substitution.  Hindsight is a marvellous thing, but I didn’t hear one person around me in the Dolman express the view that it was the wrong substitution to make, assuming that Bobby was injured.  My frustration is with the players for being complacent and arrogant and feeling they could afford to squander all those second half chances, and that Lee didn’t spot the need to make a change when Sunderland scored their first goal.  

But I’m not surprised the moaners were out.  For six hours I became one myself, as I did after the thrashing at Preston last season (for which i’m still embarrassed).  But if you can’t let rip after what happened yesterday, when can you?

Of course, even I (as a huge LJ fan and probably a bit of a happy clapper) was highly frustrated with the result. It's criminal to squander a 3 goal lead at home against a poor side. Really very wasteful of us not to win.

I think it's just a principle which i'm fairly dogmatic about. I like to give players, especially forwards who come from abroad, time to adapt. They need it. I think forward is one position along with centre half where in particular you simply need time to bed in and acclimatise.

Besides, it would be quite a boring forum if people were always pragmatic about everything. How dull would this thread be if it was full of people saying 'he wasn't great and there were some positives but we need to give him more time'?

I think the poor decision was the one LJ admitted himself. Failure, at 3-1, to change things up and bolster our midfield. Hindsight at play here but the obvious decision was to take Diedhiou off and bring on Walsh or move Paterson to the centre. I think it would've benefitted Diony having a playmaker behind him. Oh well.

[Red7]

5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Is that hindsight?  Would you seriously have given Gus the nod at h-t?  I doubt it.  I wanted to see Gus at 60-65 minutes when Diedhiou was knackered.

Yes, that was my thinking...and that of many others sat nearby.

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Yes, that was my thinking...and that of many others sat nearby.

Fair enough.  Was that knowing Reid was injured and not coming back out?

I wanted Gus to get some game time, but I would’ve always gone Diony ahead of him.

Having said that, had you got your wish, I expect Gus would be the scapegoat instead 

[Red7]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Fair enough.  Was that knowing Reid was injured and not coming back out?

Apologies, was referring to taking off Diedhiou and replacing him with Gus after an hour. I thought that was the way to go at the time. Had no issues with Diony coming on for Reid at the time.

[Red Rag]

Give him sone credit. His man marking of thier centre back was impeccable. 

[Davefevs]

18 minutes ago, Red7 said:

Apologies, was referring to taking off Diedhiou and replacing him with Gus after an hour. I thought that was the way to go at the time. Had no issues with Diony coming on for Reid at the time.

Ta

[Super]

1 hour ago, BITW said:

Have to say as much as I agree with much of the criticism on this thread, it’s baffling me how our defenders seem to be getting off scot free after conceding a 3-0 lead! Bryan caught out countless times AGAIN yesterday and it’s so noticeable how teams target our left hand side.

Still not convinced Joes future is at LB. Also can’t wait until Baker is back he’s a massive miss for us. 

Its because its Bryan and Flint they can do no wrong to some on here.

[Nogbad the Bad]

1 minute ago, Super said:

Its because its Bryan and Flint they can do no wrong to some on here.

Interesting. What exactly did Flint do wrong?

[Super]

2 minutes ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

Interesting. What exactly did Flint do wrong?

Part of a defence that pathetically caved in? Him and Wright were weak.

[Nogbad the Bad]

18 minutes ago, Super said:

Part of a defence that pathetically caved in? Him and Wright were weak.

I disagree. I thought Flint was dominant and he didn't appear a weak link at all to me.

It doesn't follow that just because we conceded 3 goals ( 2 flukes) every defender must have had a poor game.

Wright did have a poor game imo, and Joe was dominated, at crucial times, by their winger, but I'm not sure how Flint can be criticised.

Can you point out exactly how he disappointed you yesterday?

[JamesBCFC]

16 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Nobody wants to “write him off” but based on what we’ve seen so far, he’s not good enough. 

I’d love to be proved wrong!

And just how much has been seen?

A couple of sub appearences, 3 matches, but nearer 1 in minutes played.

Lots of heads on here need to be given a wobble.

[pillred]

23 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

And just how much has been seen?

A couple of sub appearences, 3 matches, but nearer 1 in minutes played.

Lots of heads on here need to be given a wobble.

but from what we have seen he has been disappointing, not having a crystal ball you can only have an opinion on what you have seen, the rest would just be speculation.

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, Nogbad the Bad said:

I disagree. I thought Flint was dominant and he didn't appear a weak link at all to me.

Yep, Flint had a fine game.  He got caught in a bad position first half, but that was it.

It doesn't follow that just because we conceded 3 goals ( 2 flukes) every defender must have had a poor game.

I agree, shit happens.  Brownhill was neat and tidy at RB too.  OG not something you can blame him for.

Wright did have a poor game imo, and Joe was dominated, at crucial times, by their winger, but I'm not sure how Flint can be criticised.

I can’t believe how poor Bailey was yesterday.  He is so right footed, he unbalances our left side and although Baker is not a sophisticated footballer, the ability to move the ball onto his left peg (away from the dangerous centre of the pitch) to either clear or pass is sadly lacking in Bailey’s game.  In the first 5 minutes he almost played us into trouble.  I like Bailey, but I don’t think we’ll see anything like the best of him on the LHS of Flint.  Look at how we struggled v QPR in the second half, until Magnússon came on and we went 3 at the right, with Bailey going RHS of Flint.

Can you point out exactly how he disappointed you yesterday?

I thought Joe was too casual defensively in the first half, but happier bursting forward.  In the first 20 of the second half I thought he really got it together, winning those tackles like v Man Utd and then springing us forward into attack.  But then he got exposed by Kent’s lack of desire to get back and help.

 

[Major Isewater]

5 hours ago, BITW said:

Have to say as much as I agree with much of the criticism on this thread, it’s baffling me how our defenders seem to be getting off scot free after conceding a 3-0 lead! Bryan caught out countless times AGAIN yesterday and it’s so noticeable how teams target our left hand side.

Still not convinced Joes future is at LB. Also can’t wait until Baker is back he’s a massive miss for us. 

Not just our left hand side but more precisely  that square yard of turf to the left of the  goal post that deserves a bloody good thrashing.

 

[Olé]

He just posted this on Instagram - which I believe translates to "I have been in the black hole for too long".

I assume it's a reference to his scoring drought unless there's a different French meaning that I've missed.