Read so much crap

[Cowshed]

21 minutes ago, Olé said:

Funnily enough I think you and I have been far closer in our view of the football this season than last season, and from my side that was largely in part due to the higher standard we exhibited in the first half of the season - I was actually seeing some of the things you were promising were "the plan".

I also agree that there is a correlation between mistakes and results, and then those results and form. And we make far too many basic mistakes. But after that, I think is where we go our separate ways . I'm more and more convinced now that Bobby Reid has carried a lot of our "good football".

When you say we are fine going forward, I'm a million miles away from that view. For the past 4 months all I see is punt it forward. One thing I loved in the first half of the season was how valuable we treated the ball. We felt dominant not because we were dominant but because opponents weren't.

You can't be dominant without the ball. And opponents didn't get the ball and so didn't have wave upon wave of attack. It was a comfortable feeling. But all I've seen for months now is opponents - not us - going at us time and time again because we keep giving them the ball (then stand miles off them).

You will no doubt say this is players not executing instructions. But what are the instructions? After 4 months we could have come up with better ones to use and protect the football rather than launching it at them, into areas that only Bobby Reid, through his own quality, is equipped to retain the ball.

Similarly am I supposed to think the players have alternative instructions to the 5-10 yards of space they now routinely give opponents between the lines and/or out on the flanks in crossing positions? Because if LJ really has equipped them with a better plan then the players should all be sacked.

We found a pattern of play in the first half of the season that leveraged the close control, energy and instincts of Bobby Reid. I hoped we had hit upon the LJ masterplan but the evidence of the last four months is it was a fluke. Mistakes or not, we have players out of position executing a feeble plan.

Not taking a side here but that is possible.

City at times this season  screen and slide. The opposition can be in space and can be unmarked as the team will take a collective shape to block channels and passing options by being compact. Players will be unmarked, space will be conceded but space via the teams collective shape should be controlled. You are appear to want man marking which is different. City are frequently zonal and not man marking till reaching a coached point where players go tight.

It is however a coaching point and execution that I pointed out to Spudski 2016-17 (it was occurring then) is down to the Manager, his coaches, his selection, his tactics if players are unable to carry out instruction  ... I may have just taken a side and made you right!

 

[Esmond Million's Bung]

14 minutes ago, Olé said:

Funnily enough I think you and I have been far closer in our view of the football this season than last season, and from my side that was largely in part due to the higher standard we exhibited in the first half of the season - I was actually seeing some of the things you were promising were "the plan".

I also agree that there is a correlation between mistakes and results, and then those results and form. And we make far too many basic mistakes. But after that, I think is where we go our separate ways . I'm more and more convinced now that Bobby Reid has carried a lot of our "good football".

When you say we are fine going forward, I'm a million miles away from that view. For the past 4 months all I see is punt it forward. One thing I loved in the first half of the season was how valuable we treated the ball. We felt dominant not because we were dominant but because opponents weren't.

You can't be dominant without the ball. And opponents didn't get the ball and so didn't have wave upon wave of attack. It was a comfortable feeling. But all I've seen for months now is opponents - not us - going at us time and time again because we keep giving them the ball (then stand miles off them).

You will no doubt say this is players not executing instructions. But what are the instructions? After 4 months we could have come up with better ones to use and protect the football rather than launching it at them, into areas that only Bobby Reid, through his own quality, is equipped to retain the ball.

Similarly am I supposed to think the players have alternative instructions to the 5-10 yards of space they now routinely give opponents between the lines and/or out on the flanks in crossing positions? Because if LJ really has equipped them with a better plan then the players should all be sacked.

We found a pattern of play in the first half of the season that leveraged the close control, energy and instincts of Bobby Reid. I hoped we had hit upon the LJ masterplan but the evidence of the last four months is it was a fluke. Mistakes or not, we have players out of position executing a feeble plan.

You are correct it was a fluke, injuries have not helped obviously, but for some to blame individual errors for almost 5 months of dire relegation type football is nonsense.

The truth is that for the first 4 months, we garnered some sort of momentum and it was assisted by the fact that LJ got lucky with his plan B of pushing Flint forward when needed, he got lucky that in the main his shoe horning in of Wright at right back was only occasionally exposed as a terrible error of judgement not to sign another right back and he later exacerbated that situation by trying and failing with Smith, Brownhill and even Bryan at right back.

Add to that the appalling January window, which certainly did not impress SL, the deterioration of squad unity and it would seem falling out with certain players, it doesn't look good moving on, if anyone can actually see what LJ was trying to achieve, they will have to explain it because sure as hell can't see it, what I saw was team incompetence the passing around at the back descending into hospital balls, either ending up largely with one of the centre backs getting bored and launching ball forward or one of our midfielders passing it back to Fielding who then skilfully put the ball safely into touch, I saw slow movement, slow build up and when we do venture into the opponents half I saw either over complication or lack of final ball.

But even with all of that I find it incredible that it has taken him 2 years to realise that he has no leaders, especially in midfield where it is needed, yesterday I saw a lot of pointing when we were defending and even more ignoring of that pointing, the worst offender being Pack, about 10 minutes in they had a throw in near the edge of our penalty area and as we 'set up', Kelly pointed and told Pack to pick up an unmarked attacker, Pack of course ignored and 30 seconds later shouted and pointed to Kelly to pick up the self same player, resulting in the player being left unmarked and free to roam around our area unmolested, it was amateur hour, luckily we got away with that, I saw a midfield that was unit for purpose being constantly sliced open like a knife through butter and goalkeeper who has become more unreliable as the season has progressed.

IMO we have the defensive capability on our books but when that defence is being put under such intense pressure because of a weak midfield, then the outcome is going to be obvious, I have been banging on about our midfield and our lack of leaders and organisers since LJ arrived and I even said that part of the problem is that I see is our midfield mirrors our manager as a player frankly, weak, we need a midfield like so many we have seen this season a midfield who can dominate, break up moves, work as a team and fully protect our defence.

In short the team ethic left us after the Wolves game for whatever reason, knowing footballers complacency and believing the hype that they are better than they actually are and from then on the 11 players became individuals and no longer a team. LJ has to up his game because I fear for next season and recruiting has to be the number one area because it can be spun in any which way but our recruitment is dull, unambitious and not bearing fruit.

 

[spudski]

31 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Not taking a side here but that is possible.

City at times this season  screen and slide. The opposition can be in space and can be unmarked as the team will take a collective shape to block channels and passing options by being compact. Players will be unmarked, space will be conceded but space via the teams collective shape should be controlled. You are appear to want man marking which is different. City are frequently zonal and not man marking till reaching a coached point where players go tight.

It is however a coaching point and execution that I pointed out to Spudski 2016-17 (it was occurring then) is down to the Manager, his coaches, his selection, his tactics if players are unable to carry out instruction  ... I may have just taken a side and made you right!

 

Of course it's all what you say. And if the players don't carry out the instruction well enough, you either have to adapt with what you have, or improve on the players you have in the future.

[bearded_red]

Of the many excuses being offered up in the last few weeks I think the myth about Jamie Paterson not being the same since his illness is probably the most irritating.

He missed the game against Leeds in October due to his illness.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-citys-jamie-paterson-reflects-793893

In the above article he describes himself as being ‘back to normal’ before the Sheffield Wednesday game in November.

His best form for City, and form that at the time had some describing him as one of the better players in the league came in December.

The truth is Paterson’s form has taken a dive because firstly that’s the sort of player he is and secondly he probably hasn’t been helped by the god awful football we’ve largely played since Diedhiou returned to fitness and the shift in position that came from this with Paterson being shifted back out wide.

But inconsistencies in the form of Paterson really shoudn’t come as any shock. That’s the player he is, great when he’s good, largely not much more than pointless when he’s bad. The sad reality is that if he showed his good form more often he’d probably be playing for a better team than us.

 

[gazza1982]

15 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

Is there anyone with a balanced view on this forum?

The first half of the season was bloody fantastic beyond our dreams.

The second half was awful.

LJ is neither a messiah giving us a great season nor a failure who deserves the sack.

Spot on. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

2 hours ago, bearded_red said:

Of the many excuses being offered up in the last few weeks I think the myth about Jamie Paterson not being the same since his illness is probably the most irritating.

He missed the game against Leeds in October due to his illness.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-citys-jamie-paterson-reflects-793893

In the above article he describes himself as being ‘back to normal’ before the Sheffield Wednesday game in November.

His best form for City, and form that at the time had some describing him as one of the better players in the league came in December.

The truth is Paterson’s form has taken a dive because firstly that’s the sort of player he is and secondly he probably hasn’t been helped by the god awful football we’ve largely played since Diedhiou returned to fitness and the shift in position that came from this with Paterson being shifted back out wide.

But inconsistencies in the form of Paterson really shoudn’t come as any shock. That’s the player he is, great when he’s good, largely not much more than pointless when he’s bad. The sad reality is that if he showed his good form more often he’d probably be playing for a better team than us.

 

Good post

His form and then complete lack of , has been the story of his career to date, not just with us

[Swede]

9 hours ago, gazza1982 said:

Spot on. 

Kind of what I've already said so I'm glad there's at least three of us including gazza1982!

[Guest]

At the moment it suits um, us, to just jog along just where we are, guaranteed income, keeps most fans happy, much cheaper than doing anything drastic, shame really if teams like Bournemouth, Burnley aren't afraid to grasp the nettle then why are we?

I am beginning to believe everyone has followed instructions to the letter since xmas, including making "token" signings in the window, did we really want to make the jump up? doubtful.

Solid base, solid base for those pillars  ok yeah right, we haven't even dug the trench yet.

[1bristolcity]

On 06/05/2018 at 19:54, Hampshire Red said:

I will take bettering 10th next season whatever our squad. 

Great season, thanks again Lj, MA, SL. 

Bring on August 

Ignore all the Gas and critical posts

We love you City! 

You obviously haven't read the OTIB rules. 

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Bri Stool City said:

At the moment it suits um, us, to just jog along just where we are, guaranteed income, keeps most fans happy, much cheaper than doing anything drastic, shame really if teams like Bournemouth, Burnley aren't afraid to grasp the nettle then why are we?

I am beginning to believe everyone has followed instructions to the letter since xmas, including making "token" signings in the window, did we really want to make the jump up? doubtful.

Solid base, solid base for those pillars  ok yeah right, we haven't even dug the trench yet.

This idea that the board don’t want us to get promoted is highly flawed.

We won’t ever make a consistent profit staying in this league - we could in the Prem. That should end the debate really but people still run with that idea. 

Obviously we want promotion.

[Floatn Over]

45 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This idea that the board don’t want us to get promoted is highly flawed.

We won’t ever make a consistent profit staying in this league - we could in the Prem. That should end the debate really but people still run with that idea. 

Obviously we want promotion.

Prem status is wanted and the sooner the better for me BUT what's as important as getting there is staying there.

Making it then becoming an easy game for most of the top elite week on week, meaning we win a few, draw a few more and drop back down after one season would be a disaster even with parachute payments.  Mirroring Burnley is a correct approach.

It is frustrating yes but better to get it right.

I just hope the control panel is being constantly adjusted to achieve this not just left on the default settings and hope it will deliver.

[Cowshed]

22 hours ago, spudski said:

Of course it's all what you say. And if the players don't carry out the instruction well enough, you either have to adapt with what you have, or improve on the players you have in the future.

And if the players don't carry out the instruction well enough, you ... Look at yourself. Mr Johnson after his windows, tens of players being brought in, years of coaching and training complains about lack of a leaders and players not doing as instructed.

The approach the team did have bringing success was abandoned by Lee Johnson.

Bristol City tactics include a Keeper kicking the ball off the park and sticking Aden Flint up top. These are consistent.

The team has no obvious consistent identity. 

As others point out. It is a scattergun identity like that goal kick. 

The point I made to you a year ago has not altered. The tactics of the teams and its approach is a reflection of Lee Johnson.

 

 

 

[BobBobSuperBob]

7 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And if the players don't carry out the instruction well enough, you ... Look at yourself. Mr Johnson after his windows, tens of players being brought in, years of coaching and training complains about lack of a leaders and players not doing as instructed.

The approach the team did have bringing success was abandoned by Lee Johnson.

Bristol City tactics include a Keeper kicking the ball off the park and sticking Aden Flint up top. These are consistent.

The team has no obvious consistent identity. 

As others point out. It is a scattergun identity like that goal kick. 

The point I made to you a year ago has not altered. The tactics of the teams and its approach is a reflection of Lee Johnson.

 

 

 

Top post 

Ive watched , played , studied , coached , scouted and managed in the game for 40 years and I’m waiting for somebody to explain what our ethos or tactical plan actually is , or was from January afterwards 

Because I couldn’t explain it

[spudski]

19 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

And if the players don't carry out the instruction well enough, you ... Look at yourself. Mr Johnson after his windows, tens of players being brought in, years of coaching and training complains about lack of a leaders and players not doing as instructed.

The approach the team did have bringing success was abandoned by Lee Johnson.

Bristol City tactics include a Keeper kicking the ball off the park and sticking Aden Flint up top. These are consistent.

The team has no obvious consistent identity. 

As others point out. It is a scattergun identity like that goal kick. 

The point I made to you a year ago has not altered. The tactics of the teams and its approach is a reflection of Lee Johnson.

 

 

 

I agree about FF...and Flint was often used when chasing a result. He scores goals and is used in training in a forward position. It's not something just made up.

I can see what the team are trying to do, the fact is, they just haven't been doing it to the best of their individual abilities.

[Cowshed]

1 minute ago, spudski said:

I agree about FF...and Flint was often used when chasing a result. He scores goals and is used in training in a forward position. It's not something just made up.

I can see what the team are trying to do, the fact is, they just haven't been doing it to the best of their individual abilities.

It was a point about consistency of approach. You yourself have said we will not see the football played up till January again. That approach was consistent for months but not for the long term. 

The approaches now are inconsistent. 

That is a reflection of the Manager. Both are.

I can see what the team are trying to do, the fact is, they just haven't been doing it to the best of their individual abilities ... Again a reflection of the Manager. A communication problem between Manager / Coaches and the players. That is a facilitation problem - That facilitator is the Manager.

Technical and tactical deficiency, feedback given to players, consistent selection and tactics its all at Lee Johnsons door. All his.

 

[Olé]

1 hour ago, Float'n Over said:

Making it then becoming an easy game for most of the top elite week on week, meaning we win a few, draw a few more and drop back down after one season would be a disaster even with parachute payments.  Mirroring Burnley is a correct approach.

Erm, Burnley dropped back down after one season  

Technically they did so twice, both after their Prem debut with Coyle, and then again after their first Prem year under Dyche too.

Getting Premiership money so long as you use it responsibly, can only be a good thing even if you don't stay up first time there.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

This idea that the board don’t want us to get promoted is highly flawed.

We won’t ever make a consistent profit staying in this league - we could in the Prem. That should end the debate really but people still run with that idea. 

Obviously we want promotion.

I would write your last sentence as "Obviously we'd like promotion."

But unlike other clubs who, during their existence, have spent a lot longer in the top tier than we have, we are not so determined and focussed as they are to achieve that status. For the Leeds, Villas, Sheffield clubs, Derbys, Fulhams, Boros etc, it is a holy grail that they appear much more determined to find than we do.

A lot of mentions on here about Burnley, Huddersfield and Bournemouth. They all took punts on comparatively young and/or inexperienced managers and got it right. 

We got it wrong. That has been obvious now for at leat eighteen months. Can you imagine the others keeping an ineffective manager for so long?

[spudski]

3 hours ago, Cowshed said:

It was a point about consistency of approach. You yourself have said we will not see the football played up till January again. That approach was consistent for months but not for the long term. 

The approaches now are inconsistent. 

That is a reflection of the Manager. Both are.

I can see what the team are trying to do, the fact is, they just haven't been doing it to the best of their individual abilities ... Again a reflection of the Manager. A communication problem between Manager / Coaches and the players. That is a facilitation problem - That facilitator is the Manager.

Technical and tactical deficiency, feedback given to players, consistent selection and tactics its all at Lee Johnsons door. All his.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've watched the players trying to do the same type of moves as they did in January. Some work, some don't. It wasn't anything to do with LJ trying to do anything totally different tactically. They are still trying to play through the lines. The difference being, before January, our passing was sharp and accurate as well as being well controlled , now it's less so. Balls get mis controlled or intercepted. That's not inept coaching...that is players playing either within themselves or not up to their higher standard, for varying reasons.

It's so easy to blame the manager all the time.

If we were doing anything drastically different I'd understand your reasoning, but apart from a few tweaks, we aren't.

[Trueredsupporter]

4 hours ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Top post 

Ive watched , played , studied , coached , scouted and managed in the game for 40 years and I’m waiting for somebody to explain what our ethos or tactical plan actually is , or was from January afterwards 

Because I couldn’t explain it

According to Spudski little is being done differently. only tweaks. tweaks with a hammer that must be!!!

[spudski]

21 minutes ago, Trueredsupporte said:

According to Spudski little is being done differently. only tweaks. tweaks with a hammer that must be!!!

So BBSB with all his experience can't work it out...and you think it's a vast difference with it's 'hammering'...prey tell me from your wisdom these drastic changes in the way we set up and play every week, apart from the odd tweak here and there.

It's fine if you are going to knock and like others take the piss, but apart from Cowshed, no one comes up with anything significant.

Just knocking for the sake of knocking, because performances and results have been less than before January.

[Judda]

On 06/05/2018 at 19:58, Rossi the Robin said:

I was blind, now I can see 

A miracle! A miracle!

[Judda]

On 06/05/2018 at 20:38, ChippenhamRed said:

Tired of defending the club in the name of broad progress. We had a wonderful opportunity and we comprehensively blew it.

As fans I think it’s fair to say we didn’t demand promotion. But we did demand that, having put ourselves in such a great position at Christmas, we gave ourselves the very best shot at it. But we collapsed inexcusably and failed miserably to strengthen the side. Woeful.

Youll have to tell me which bit of the above isn’t “realist” enough for you.

The problem is next season Birmingham City, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Brentford, Bristol City, Hull City, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Millwall, Norwich City, Nottingham Forest, Preston North End, QPR, Reading, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Stoke City, Wigan Athletic and whoever eslse is in the division will all fancy their chances too... 

If we spent big at chrismas and still blew it we'd be worse off now...I think there was a gamble in hoping players would be back and available sooner... didn't workout though...

[Trueredsupporter]

18 hours ago, spudski said:

So BBSB with all his experience can't work it out...and you think it's a vast difference with it's 'hammering'...prey tell me from your wisdom these drastic changes in the way we set up and play every week, apart from the odd tweak here and there.

It's fine if you are going to knock and like others take the piss, but apart from Cowshed, no one comes up with anything significant.

Just knocking for the sake of knocking, because performances and results have been less than before January.

You dont half comes across as angry and at times abusive when people dont agree with you. I thought it was funny another coach is so far away from you on his view. its quite clear LJ changed a lot of things you said it yourself the likes of Kent and Diony ?? would not be able to link up play and that was Kent a winger who would not suit pass and move. At Cardiff City played with two big men up top and launched it. as people said at the time LJ should not be surprised if the team does not play fast passing football if he does not pick a side to. Stealing others lines all the time here bit LJ said he wanted to match cardiffs physical side.  Not actually knocking the results but observing way the football was played and changed. City frequently abandoned that passing style and the busy bees (great BBSB description that) mentions. 

I do not need a coaching badge to see that was more than a tweak. in another post i asked you what you thought Citys style was and you answered with what you thought it might be in future not what it was now. another point BBSB has made very well aboutr recruiting for the style the team has instead of all these clubs in the bags you mention. 

[1bristolcity]

On 08/05/2018 at 09:09, BobBobSuperBob said:

Top post 

Ive watched , played , studied , coached , scouted and managed in the game for 40 years and I’m waiting for somebody to explain what our ethos or tactical plan actually is , or was from January afterwards 

Because I couldn’t explain it

Well that explains a lot...and you still need someone else's status as a club legend to massage your ego...what a prize plumb you are.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Can I just say how much I've enjoyed reading this thread?  I think it's the closest we've come to a reasonably dispassionate analysis of what has goine wrong this season.  I suspect that there are many like me who have been watching football for many years but don't get too involved in the intricacies of tactics and game theory.  We just want to see our team doing well and be entertained on a Saturday afternoon.  I support the team and always want them to do well, and in Lee Johnson I think we've have a man who is committed to the club which is good to see.  I also like the idea of a longer-term strategy because I was utterly fed up with the mentality that saw us change managers and squads everytime things didn't quite go how we wanted them.  However, despite my consistent rejection of some of the more knee-jerk criticism of LJ from the FFS brigade on this forum, the last five months have been very very disappointing and it is interesting to read theories of exactly what has gone wrong.  As someone who has spent a lot of their career in senior management, I do have to say that I am surprised at what appears to have been a lack of meaningful response to the situation in the past three months, in particular, and my concern about Lee Johnson is more in terms of pure management ability - can he turn round a situation that is going wrong?  That is the biggest challenge for any manager in any walk of life, and as yet Lee hasn't shown that he can do it.  However, we should stick with him and keep the faith because the theory behind his appointment is still sound and we do seem to be making some progress, broadly speaking.  Next season will be a tough league again.  You only have to think that three of Fulham, Villa, Middlesbrough and Derby will still be in it, and they're going to be joined by Stoke, West Brom and probably Swansea, with Wigan and Blackburn coming up, to see just how strong it wil be.  I think we will do well to finish as high as we have this season in any circumstances, simply because we are competing with teams who have far more resources than us, but of course we live in hope that it will turn out to be that season.

[Cowshed]

21 hours ago, spudski said:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I've watched the players trying to do the same type of moves as they did in January. Some work, some don't. It wasn't anything to do with LJ trying to do anything totally different tactically. They are still trying to play through the lines. The difference being, before January, our passing was sharp and accurate as well as being well controlled , now it's less so. Balls get mis controlled or intercepted. That's not inept coaching...that is players playing either within themselves or not up to their higher standard, for varying reasons.

It's so easy to blame the manager all the time.

If we were doing anything drastically different I'd understand your reasoning, but apart from a few tweaks, we aren't.

I thought about how I would answer your post by going beyond opinion and I came up with using two passing maps to highlight that in two consecutive games Bristol clearly played drastically different.

The first is Cardiff City away.

The second is Sheffield Wednesday at home.

The first map indicates a team constantly looking to play forwards, often over the thirds at the expense of losing possession. That team is not looking to play through the first third.

The second map indicates a team playing shorter and through the thirds into feet, switching play looking for openings. That team is playing through the first third consistently.

This could be two different teams. They are not they are the same team playing very differently a week apart. This was Mr Johnson playing differently very differently. Other maps demonstrate that the team from January played longer with passing distances increasing to Bristol City passing length being 20 metres, while Cardiff's is 21 metres. As the season progressed the team played more like say Cardiff minus form than say Wolves/Fulham ... Stretching for parallels there but Bristol City ( formerly a fast short passing team?) became less of a passing team, and results bombed in unison with that tactical change. 

[Mr Popodopolous]

18 hours ago, Judda said:

The problem is next season Birmingham City, Blackburn Rovers, Bolton Wanderers, Brentford, Bristol City, Hull City, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Millwall, Norwich City, Nottingham Forest, Preston North End, QPR, Reading, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Stoke City, Wigan Athletic and whoever eslse is in the division will all fancy their chances too... 

If we spent big at chrismas and still blew it we'd be worse off now...I think there was a gamble in hoping players would be back and available sooner... didn't workout though...

• Birmingham- Have potentially big FFP issues.
• Blackburn- Are terribly run, so I don't expect to see them up near the top.
• Bolton- Still in a major financial state, won't go down perhaps, but certainly won't charge up the League.
• Ipswich- have no Mick McCarthy, and may well miss him a lot more than they think. Don't see them as likely contenders.
• Millwall- people know how they play now, decent managers will be able to combat them more readily. They won't go down, but they will surely drop off.
• Norwich- Could go either way, will need to sell some key players though as zero parachute payments left.
• Nottingham Forest- Look like they are in FFP trouble, badly run for some time too.
• QPR- Major FFP issues still, the fine of £40m is still outstanding- should be hamstrung for some time. Parachute payments run out this year too I think, final year of parachute payments.
• Reading- Gambled, no parachute payments left this season, let alone next after a failed gamble and could well be hamstrung somewhat next year.
• Sheffield Wednesday have FFP issues, big ones at that.
• Stoke- Can't see them coming back up necessarily- aging squad, will lose quite a few, can Lambert do it?

Fair's fair though, Hull might improve- might- final year of parachute payments though. Brentford, Preston, Sheffield United all look stable and well run, decent sides too albeit with contrasting styles. Wigan could be a surprise package! Leeds on paper should improve, absolutely- fanbase, revenue, lots of commercial income.

Fulham, WBA may have financial issues though, Fulham especially if they stay down, Aston Villa certainly will, Derby aging squad and not a huge amount of wriggle room. Swansea probably passable financially, but are they big enough to bounce straight up? Certainly no Newcastle. Not worried about any of the playoff sides, with the possible exception of Shrewsbury.

The point is, lots and lots of sides have issues and not just us- so even if only by dint of the failures or financial limitations of others, it might not be so bad as all that. However I agree opn last bit- definitely a gamble that players would be back and firing sooner than they were.

[spudski]

1 hour ago, Cowshed said:

I thought about how I would answer your post by going beyond opinion and I came up with using two passing maps to highlight that in two consecutive games Bristol clearly played drastically different.

The first is Cardiff City away.

The second is Sheffield Wednesday at home.

The first map indicates a team constantly looking to play forwards, often over the thirds at the expense of losing possession. That team is not looking to play through the first third.

The second map indicates a team playing shorter and through the thirds into feet, switching play looking for openings. That team is playing through the first third consistently.

This could be two different teams. They are not they are the same team playing very differently a week apart. This was Mr Johnson playing differently very differently. Other maps demonstrate that the team from January played longer with passing distances increasing to Bristol City passing length being 20 metres, while Cardiff's is 21 metres. As the season progressed the team played more like say Cardiff minus form than say Wolves/Fulham ... Stretching for parallels there but Bristol City ( formerly a fast short passing team?) became less of a passing team, and results bombed in unison with that tactical change. 

And yes I agree...LJ said he tried to compete physically in the Cardiff game. A mistake in hindsight. But in general over the season, we haven't changed anything dramatically every game, apart from a few tweaks, where we have had injuries and had to use what was available and play to their strengths. Kent being one...and when we've used Duric. LJ will make mistakes, just like all managers. He's not perfect, and obviously trying to find methods that suit. It will be interesting to see who we bring in over the summer and what direction we take. 

[Cowshed]

46 minutes ago, spudski said:

And yes I agree...LJ said he tried to compete physically in the Cardiff game. A mistake in hindsight. But in general over the season, we haven't changed anything dramatically every game, apart from a few tweaks, where we have had injuries a

You are losing me here.

The team are playing longer. 

You said yourself the recruits could not pass and press as the team formerly did. You have also said we will (probably) not see the football the team was playing again, so it was more than a tweak!!

Including a player like Diony in the starting eleven is a dramatic change. The team will play differently offensively and defensively. There is also a technical difference. Diony loses 50% of the ball. 

Diedihou has a similar impact. Scores goals but the team The team will play differently offensively and defensively. There is also a technical difference. Retention of the ball v Reid or Patterson is low. 

Ryan Kent. Impact again in and out of possession. There is also a technical difference. Kent can lose more than 50% of the ball. Passing is just a word in the dictionary to him at this point in his football.

Djuric.The team will play differently offensively and defensively. He is twelve feet tall and his team mates will hit the heights. There is also a technical difference. Djurics retention of the ball is again not high.

That is a clear move away from the quick short passing, possession based football Mr Johnsons team was playing.

This little to do with injuries. It is Lee Johnsons decision and involved preplanning to bring two of those players. The inclusion of three of those players in a two or otherwise will lead to the team playing longer with the team playing less to feet. That is not a blatantly obvious will ... It did. That was Lee Johnsons choice. 

There were no players brought in to support the style of football the team was playing into January. This was not tweaking. It was a clear decision to do something different and a planned decision involving scouts and Mr Ashton.

 

 

[Kid in the Riot]

On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 09:28, spudski said:

You are right about Bobby...but imo, it was the loss of quality players around him, that made the difference.

We missed Odowda massively...he really got us going in that final 3rd.

Patto also was brilliant with Bobby, but never the same after that illness.

We missed Famara's presence also.

All those contributed to our decline in form imo...

You could also argue that injuries contributed to our best form of the season. When those players were out and LJ had to stick with the same starting 11, week in, week out we were flying in November and December.

And in regard to Paterson; he's never been the same since LJ switched him from playing behind Bobby to out on the wing. A more likely explanation of his loss of form for me.