£17million? Laughing all the way to the bank!

[beaverface]

If we work on the assumption that LJ would have a £10million kitty before any sells, and we've then sold Flint, Reid and Mags for near to £20million, with possibly Bryan to go, our overall transfer pot looks very healthy.

But....as everyone keeps saying, will we spend it wisely??! Time will tell.

[Frenchay Red]

The replacements we bring in may be as good or even better players. But will they be able match the number of appearances that AF & BR provided throughout the season. Not many games missed by either of them. Quite a factor IMV when assessing a player's capabilities.

[David Brent]

27 minutes ago, REDOXO said:

I wouldn’t. Love Aiden great bloke, but cash in now would have been the mindset of both club and player. Bobby had one good season and was not going to sign, so happy days

Yeah I tend to agree. My point was I think I’d rather have the 2 of them here (if they’re happy to be here) than have the money to spend. They’re going to be difficult to replace.

[Bs4Red]

Genuinely think it will be a good thing losing flint. Too many people look at him with rose tinted glasses. A very average defender whose goals overshadow his defensive frailties. 

The mindset of Flint has been to leave the club since Brum wanted him. Hopefully breathing new life into the team and breaking up part of the promotion winning team can make us more successful. 

Very rare for a team to have so many players from a lower division still left.

[David Brent]

1 hour ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Therefore I would always rather have £17m worth of talent on the pitch than £17m in the bank. I can’t get excited about the money and I’m not convinced by any gleeful claims of what a good deal we got. It’s only a good deal if we spend the money wisely and end up with a better squad than we started with.

Agreed. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Son of Fred]

2 hours ago, David Brent said:

Wouldn’t you still rather have Flint and Reid, and not have the £17M?

Same as money any of us have in our personal/business accounts-if you don't use it wisely and mostly acquire value then it's defeating its own purpose....

[Robin Ashton]

1 hour ago, Bs4Red said:

The mindset of Flint has been to leave the club since Brum wanted him.

Did he tell you that?

[Bs4Red]

35 minutes ago, Robin Ashton said:

Did he tell you that?

Apologies I always forget the forum isn’t the place for opinions. My bad 

[RedRock]

£5 million is way below his value to us if we are serious about promotion in the next 2-3 seasons. What’s the value of the Club  reaching the Premier League? £150 million plus? £5 million in that context is loose change in that context.

I think the 2 transfers are quite telling about our short term aspirations. MA has clearly decided we are going to look to the long term pushing for promotion and keep gambling with relatively cheap newcomers in the hope we will uncover 11 gems who will all come good and gel at the same time.

The question is were we more likely to achieve promotion with Flint (and Reid) in the next couple of years or with some unknowns i.e. Webster who doesn’t seem to score goals and has a poor injury record and Watkins - well, I’m not entirely sure what we’ve bought. 

Suppose my frustration is if we kept the League 1 winning squad together with a few quality additions and replacements we may well have already achieved promotion. Instead, we have a young squad absent of leaders and full of lightweights.

 

 

[Xiled]

If we're going to progress, we have to get used to buying players and selling them at a profit.

The value of the transfers is the only part of the decision that we (the supporters) know anything about.  Having identified replacements and the ambition/wishes of those leaving are also part of the reason why transfers can happen.

We've been conditioned for decades (if not our entire history) to the idea that players should stay with the club until they are too old, too injured or too rubbish to continue playing.  The reality for most Premier League and Championship sides is that they are a production line for bigger clubs home and abroad.  That we haven't done that in the past (with a few exceptions) is mostly down to our poor off-field management of players and their contracts.

I'm very sorry to see Flint go - especially to Boro.  But we're going to have to get used to players like him wanting to play their football for more than Bristol City.  I wish both Bobby Reid and Aden Flint every success that their careers go from strength to strength.

Two years on, does anyone question the club's decision to sell Kodjia?  The reality is he will never be worth more than Villa paid us.  Tough to accept but it was good business for Bristol City.

[RobintheRed Red]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

£10M is nothing for a PL club to pay for a striker who has proved he can top the second tier scoring charts - just look at other precedents. For those that say "but it's just one season!" I'd say, how many goals did you expect him to score as a midfield sub played out-of-position in the preceding seasons? There is no reason to believe he wouldn't hit approaching 20 again next term at this level.  I'm not saying we were stiffed in the deal at all, but it isn't "unbelievable generosity". It's par for the course in the monopoly money world of the EPL.

As for Flint, I'd say £5m+ add ons isn't generous at all for a defender consistently ranked as among the best CBs in the Championship. and who is probably the top scoring defender at this level.  It's par for the course again, but for a player who is very much an above par performer and whose value to us goes beyond just his on-pitch skills. We've paid roughly the same for his replacement, which may work out fine, but let's not forget was at the heart of a defence that conceded more goals than us in 17/18.

I can't say that anything about this summer's transfer dealings cheers me at all. In fact, I feel a bit sick,

But maybe Johnson will pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring in the players needed to take us forward.

Maybe....

Yes everybody i speak to jarred off with whats going on and wished they hadnt botthered renewing only two to three players last year short of a premier league team 

[redredrobin5]

5 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

£10M is nothing for a PL club to pay for a striker who has proved he can top the second tier scoring charts - just look at other precedents. For those that say "but it's just one season!" I'd say, how many goals did you expect him to score as a midfield sub played out-of-position in the preceding seasons? There is no reason to believe he wouldn't hit approaching 20 again next term at this level.  I'm not saying we were stiffed in the deal at all, but it isn't "unbelievable generosity". It's par for the course in the monopoly money world of the EPL.

As for Flint, I'd say £5m+ add ons isn't generous at all for a defender consistently ranked as among the best CBs in the Championship. and who is probably the top scoring defender at this level.  It's par for the course again, but for a player who is very much an above par performer and whose value to us goes beyond just his on-pitch skills. We've paid roughly the same for his replacement, which may work out fine, but let's not forget was at the heart of a defence that conceded more goals than us in 17/18.

I can't say that anything about this summer's transfer dealings cheers me at all. In fact, I feel a bit sick,

But maybe Johnson will pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring in the players needed to take us forward.

Maybe....

hes only had one season in this role and I dont think hes a proven goalscorer at all, not yet. 2 seasons and scoring 20 goals then maybe, but not 1 season, IMO.

 

£10m for Bobby Reid is great business....who would ever have thought Reid would be worth £10m, he couldn't even hold a place down the season before. In my opinion a good bit of business, i think he'll flop in the Prem...good luck to him, but i do feel he was a one season wonder and i dont think hed have achieved the same next season

[Red-Robbo]

27 minutes ago, redredrobin5 said:

hes only had one season in this role and I dont think hes a proven goalscorer at all, not yet. 2 seasons and scoring 20 goals then maybe, but not 1 season, IMO.

 

£10m for Bobby Reid is great business....who would ever have thought Reid would be worth £10m, he couldn't even hold a place down the season before. In my opinion a good bit of business, i think he'll flop in the Prem...good luck to him, but i do feel he was a one season wonder and i dont think hed have achieved the same next season

Why do you think he'd suddenly stop scoring this season had he stayed here? He's fast, skilfull on the ball and knows where the net is, but has only been allowed to play that role this season, due to successive managers not thinking outside the box.

While it's true some strikers can be "one season wonders" most aren't and there is no reason to believe Bobby would not get substantial goals in 2018/19.

What he'll do in the PL and in a warnock side is another question....

 

[JoeAman08]

7 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Ah. Fair enough. I've seen both sets of figures quoted.

Even at £7m we weren't mugging Boro in the deal.  Nowhere near. 

Mugged them off? No but that is a hell of a deal for a 29 year old who has never played above this level. The closest fee I can find for age via transfermarkt was 3.78m for Jason Shackell to Derby a few years ago. Similar age but come from Burnley. Did he play any prem football? We got 7m plus add ons which is the third highest fee ever paid for a defender by a championship club and that includes Wily Boly who’s transfer occured after Wolves won promotion and he is mid 20s. Next is Chester at Villa from a premier league club for just over a mil more again being mid 20s at the time. Probably the best financial deal we could even dream of getting. Now arguing his worth to us is one thing. As for finances that is a stellar deal

[Big Nose]

" MA has clearly decided we are going to look to the long term pushing for promotion and keep gambling with relatively cheap newcomers in the hope we will uncover 11 gems who will all come good and gel at the same time."

Did he tell you that?

[The Fat Controller]

As a slightly related aside, prior to the sale of Flint and Magnússon the last two occasions someone actually paid us for a central defender we received £60,000 and £200,000. 

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Mugged them off? No but that is a hell of a deal for a 29 year old who has never played above this level. The closest fee I can find for age via transfermarkt was 3.78m for Jason Shackell to Derby a few years ago. Similar age but come from Burnley. Did he play any prem football? We got 7m plus add ons which is the third highest fee ever paid for a defender by a championship club and that includes Wily Boly who’s transfer occured after Wolves won promotion and he is mid 20s. Next is Chester at Villa from a premier league club for just over a mil more again being mid 20s at the time. Probably the best financial deal we could even dream of getting. Now arguing his worth to us is one thing. As for finances that is a stellar deal

But we didn't have to sell. That is the point.

We're not flipping Tescos.

[Ring]

3 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Why do you think he'd suddenly stop scoring this season had he stayed here? He's fast, skilfull on the ball and knows where the net is, but has only been allowed to play that role this season, due to successive managers not thinking outside the box.

While it's true some strikers can be "one season wonders" most aren't and there is no reason to believe Bobby would not get substantial goals in 2018/19.

What he'll do in the PL and in a warnock side is another question....

 

I believe that the Reid deal is a masterstroke. Some people may say that there is no reason he can’t do it again. However, I’ve watched him for enough years to believe that he won’t. He’s flattered to deceive for years, but then has 1 good season. (Even a stopped clock is right twice a day). He may prove me wrong but, on the balance of probability, I’m happy to take that risk. Time will tell, I suppose, but I’m more than happy that we have that amount of money for him. I certainly don’t think he’s PL class.

Flint? I’m disappointed, as I think he’s worth more to us than £7m. However, Boro have a much better chance of getting to the prem than us, so I don’t begrudge him the chance. Who wouldn’t want to squirrel away as much money as they can before they retire? It’s only a few years. He stands a better chance of playing top flight football with them as well, so it’s an obvious move. I wish him luck.

IMHO, a lot of the criticism is unjustified at this stage. As we have (reportedly) £17m from the 2 sales, it depends on if and how the money is reinvested.

if we reinvest, it will depend on how and who LJ and MA invest in. The proof of the pudding will be how they perform next season. 

If we don’t reinvest, it won’t be their fault. It will be the person/people who holds the purse strings.

Im not a huge fan of LJ or MA, but I think they need to be given a chance. It’s only 1 day since the 2 players were sold, so we will see who’s brought in. If they don’t do well, then both LJ and MA deserve criticism for doubt their respective jobs badly.

It’s too early to criticise, but the right time may well happen.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Ring said:

I believe that the Reid deal is a masterstroke. Some people may say that there is no reason he can’t do it again. However, I’ve watched him for enough years to believe that he won’t.

Cheers Mystic Meg. What are next weeks lottery numbers?

Needless to say, I disagree with your conclusion. 

[Ring]

That’s what forums are all about. Neither of us are right or wrong at this stage, but we will find out later.

You’re more than welcome to refer to me as Mystic Meg, but that wasn’t the point of my post. If you read it again, you’ll see that I said that it’s too early to criticise, when the business is only part done.

Id imagine that BR probably wanted to move when he learned of how much more they’d pay him. Who wouldn’t?

And my post was based on past experience, not prediction.

[JoeAman08]

47 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

But we didn't have to sell. That is the point.

We're not flipping Tescos.

From a value standpoint we did. The club have said we will do this. I have no problems with this as they have been honest about it and lets be fair, we all thought season before last would be the end of him here. 

[Red-Robbo]

21 minutes ago, JoeAman08 said:

From a value standpoint we did. The club have said we will do this. I have no problems with this as they have been honest about it and lets be fair, we all thought season before last would be the end of him here. 

Because they've said it, doesn't mean we should.

Replace a solid defender, model pro, inspiring character, a rarely injured goal scorer for what?

With another guy costing about the same who may or may not improve in what we have?

Just, why?

Maybe it'll be a master stroke, but as I said earlier recruitment has been more miss than hit under  Johnson.

[JoeAman08]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Because they've said it, doesn't mean we should.

Replace a solid defender, model pro, inspiring character, a rarely injured goal scorer for what?

With another guy costing about the same who may or may not improve in what we have?

Just, why?

Maybe it'll be a master stroke, but as I said earlier recruitment has been more miss than hit under  Johnson.

Under Johnson or under Ashton. Who knows? It hasn’t been stellar no but seems we are in for more sensible options this season. Time will tell for sure.

To the point of whether they should or not isn’t really up for debate. Lansdown wants the club to be as self sustainable as possible which I think is fair enough. For that reason we will sell players. Trying to keep everyone here would mean large contracts for them and for the big players we bring in to try and gain promotion. A gamble they won’t take and again fair. From a competitive standpoint it isn’t great but eventually should lead to a competitive and sustainable club. 

[downendcity]

1 hour ago, Ring said:

I believe that the Reid deal is a masterstroke. Some people may say that there is no reason he can’t do it again. However, I’ve watched him for enough years to believe that he won’t. He’s flattered to deceive for years, but then has 1 good season. (Even a stopped clock is right twice a day). He may prove me wrong but, on the balance of probability, I’m happy to take that risk. Time will tell, I suppose, but I’m more than happy that we have that amount of money for him. I certainly don’t think he’s PL class.

Flint? I’m disappointed, as I think he’s worth more to us than £7m. However, Boro have a much better chance of getting to the prem than us, so I don’t begrudge him the chance. Who wouldn’t want to squirrel away as much money as they can before they retire? It’s only a few years. He stands a better chance of playing top flight football with them as well, so it’s an obvious move. I wish him luck.

IMHO, a lot of the criticism is unjustified at this stage. As we have (reportedly) £17m from the 2 sales, it depends on if and how the money is reinvested.

if we reinvest, it will depend on how and who LJ and MA invest in. The proof of the pudding will be how they perform next season. 

If we don’t reinvest, it won’t be their fault. It will be the person/people who holds the purse strings.

Im not a huge fan of LJ or MA, but I think they need to be given a chance. It’s only 1 day since the 2 players were sold, so we will see who’s brought in. If they don’t do well, then both LJ and MA deserve criticism for doubt their respective jobs badly.

It’s too early to criticise, but the right time may well happen.

This is OTIB - it's NEVER too early to criticise!

[Ring]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

This is OTIB - it's NEVER too early to criticise!

Silly me. Apologies. It SHOULD be too early to criticise, all being fair.

 

Taxi...

[shamussy]

I think it's important to remember with flint that we signed his replacement (baker) when we thought he was off (brum). For one reason or other that never worked out and we ended up with 3 cb's. so now he's gone we have effectively got baker + Webster for the same cost as flint.

So we aren't really at a loss with this and have already strengthened with his money... albeit in a reverse order...

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, shamussy said:

I think it's important to remember with flint that we signed his replacement (baker) when we thought he was off (brum). For one reason or other that never worked out and we ended up with 3 cb's. so now he's gone we have effectively got baker + Webster for the same cost as flint.

So we aren't really at a loss with this and have already strengthened with his money... albeit in a reverse order...

I like this post.

[Red-Robbo]

2 hours ago, JoeAman08 said:

Under Johnson or under Ashton. Who knows? It hasn’t been stellar no but seems we are in for more sensible options this season. Time will tell for sure.

To the point of whether they should or not isn’t really up for debate. Lansdown wants the club to be as self sustainable as possible which I think is fair enough. For that reason we will sell players. Trying to keep everyone here would mean large contracts for them and for the big players we bring in to try and gain promotion. A gamble they won’t take and again fair. From a competitive standpoint it isn’t great but eventually should lead to a competitive and sustainable club. 

I think - if going for the Prem is what we are trying for - he has to "get real" and realise that no football clubs are long-term self-sustaining.

And Championship clubs bidding for promotion probably least of all....

[Davefevs]

26 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I think - if going for the Prem is what we are trying for - he has to "get real" and realise that no football clubs are long-term self-sustaining.

And Championship clubs bidding for promotion probably least of all....

If you want to reach the Prem, You become self-sustainable when you reach it.

You can be self-sustainable in the Champ, but you won’t reach the promised land, unless there is a big correction in the financials, e.g. Villa and one or two others go bust....or do a Sunderland.

[Red-Robbo]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

If you want to reach the Prem, You become self-sustainable when you reach it.

You can be self-sustainable in the Champ, but you won’t reach the promised land, unless there is a big correction in the financials, e.g. Villa and one or two others go bust....or do a Sunderland.

I think Villa and Sunderland point to what can go wrong if you are a PL team and continue to recruit and pay like a PL team when you are relegated.

However I stand by my assertion that we'll never get anywhere if we become a selling club - balancing the books by eviscerating the core of the team each summer.  We can bring in loads of new guys, but they won't have played together and will take a while to bed in.

Tbh I really fear the worst this season. We are not going about things sensibly.