£17million? Laughing all the way to the bank!

[reddogkev]

Yesterday I was outraged and bitter at the sale of Reid.  I would have probably throttled him for going to Cardiff!

Now though, I am laughing at the finances involved.  I struggle to believe that we have raked in near £17million on Flint and Reid.

I didn't think for one minute that Reid would go for 10million, with only 12 months left on his deal and the back of one amazing season.

Vincent Tan, thank you for your generosity!  We may look back at this bonus 10million in the bank as the catalyst for truly exciting growth.

[Red-Robbo]

£10M is nothing for a PL club to pay for a striker who has proved he can top the second tier scoring charts - just look at other precedents. For those that say "but it's just one season!" I'd say, how many goals did you expect him to score as a midfield sub played out-of-position in the preceding seasons? There is no reason to believe he wouldn't hit approaching 20 again next term at this level.  I'm not saying we were stiffed in the deal at all, but it isn't "unbelievable generosity". It's par for the course in the monopoly money world of the EPL.

As for Flint, I'd say £5m+ add ons isn't generous at all for a defender consistently ranked as among the best CBs in the Championship. and who is probably the top scoring defender at this level.  It's par for the course again, but for a player who is very much an above par performer and whose value to us goes beyond just his on-pitch skills. We've paid roughly the same for his replacement, which may work out fine, but let's not forget was at the heart of a defence that conceded more goals than us in 17/18.

I can't say that anything about this summer's transfer dealings cheers me at all. In fact, I feel a bit sick,

But maybe Johnson will pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring in the players needed to take us forward.

Maybe....

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

£10M is nothing for a PL club to pay for a striker who has proved he can top the second tier scoring charts - just look at other precedents. For those that say "but it's just one season!" I'd say, how many goals did you expect him to score as a midfield sub played out-of-position in the preceding seasons? There is no reason to believe he wouldn't hit approaching 20 again next term at this level.  I'm not saying we were stiffed in the deal at all, but it isn't "unbelievable generosity". It's par for the course in the monopoly money world of the EPL.

As for Flint, I'd say £5m+ add ons isn't generous at all for a defender consistently ranked as among the best CBs in the Championship. and who is probably the top scoring defender at this level.  It's par for the course again, but for a player who is very much an above par performer and whose value to us goes beyond just his on-pitch skills. We've paid roughly the same for his replacement, which may work out fine, but let's not forget was at the heart of a defence that conceded 39 more goals than us in 17/18.

I can't say that anything about this summer's transfer dealings cheers me at all. In fact, I feel a bit sick,

But maybe Johnson will pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring in the players needed to take us forward.

Maybe....

It appears that Flint is reported as £7m (plus add-ons) now.  BEP were quick on the £5m + adding, but the Boro journo who broke it, came back with an update.

[Red-Robbo]

Just now, Davefevs said:

It appears that Flint is reported as £7m (plus add-ons) now.  BEP were quick on the £5m + adding, but the Boro journo who broke it, came back with an update.

Ah. Fair enough. I've seen both sets of figures quoted.

Even at £7m we weren't mugging Boro in the deal.  Nowhere near. 

[kit]

15 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

£10M is nothing for a PL club to pay for a striker who has proved he can top the second tier scoring charts - just look at other precedents. For those that say "but it's just one season!" I'd say, how many goals did you expect him to score as a midfield sub played out-of-position in the preceding seasons? There is no reason to believe he wouldn't hit approaching 20 again next term at this level.  I'm not saying we were stiffed in the deal at all, but it isn't "unbelievable generosity". It's par for the course in the monopoly money world of the EPL.

As for Flint, I'd say £5m+ add ons isn't generous at all for a defender consistently ranked as among the best CBs in the Championship. and who is probably the top scoring defender at this level.  It's par for the course again, but for a player who is very much an above par performer and whose value to us goes beyond just his on-pitch skills. We've paid roughly the same for his replacement, which may work out fine, but let's not forget was at the heart of a defence that conceded 39 more goals than us in 17/18.

I can't say that anything about this summer's transfer dealings cheers me at all. In fact, I feel a bit sick,

But maybe Johnson will pull a rabbit out of the hat and bring in the players needed to take us forward.

Maybe....

Who conceded 39 more goals than us in 2017/18?

[Red-Robbo]

4 minutes ago, kit said:

Who conceded 39 more goals than us in 2017/18?

Ipswich. Goal difference not goals conceded, I could have phrased it better. I'm not blaming Adam Webster for them.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/final-championship-table-2018-promotion-playoffs-relegation-confirmed-a3832341.html

[Davefevs]

10 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Ah. Fair enough. I've seen both sets of figures quoted.

Even at £7m we weren't mugging Boro in the deal.  Nowhere near. 

To the neutral a fair fee.

To City fans, way too low.

To Boro fans, too high for a 28/29 year old.

[kit]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Ipswich. I'm not blaming Adam Webster for them.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/final-championship-table-2018-promotion-playoffs-relegation-confirmed-a3832341.html

I dont think thats right... as far as i can see they only conceded a couple more than us. Plus webster only played just over half their games.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, Davefevs said:

To the neutral a fair fee.

To City fans, way too low.

To Boro fans, too high for a 28/29 year old.

I don't think any Boro fans I know think they paid too much.

I'd say 28/29 is the prime years for a central defender. He's hardly geriatric.

[View from the Dolman]

5 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

Ipswich. I'm not blaming Adam Webster for them.

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/final-championship-table-2018-promotion-playoffs-relegation-confirmed-a3832341.html

That link is uselessly incorrect.

They conceded 2 goals more than us. They scored 10 goals less than us. Their goal difference was -3, not -30 as per your link

And whichever way you work the numbers a difference of 39 in goal difference, doesn't mean they conceded 39 more goals.

[Red-Robbo]

1 minute ago, kit said:

I dont think thats right... as far as i can see they only conceded a couple more than us. Plus webster only played just over half their games.

Yeah, I corrected the original. The wording was a bit misleading. 

Let's hope Webster works out, but my memory of seeing Ipswich at AG is not of being very impressed by anyone.

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

I don't think any Boro fans I know think they paid too much.

I'd say 28/29 is the prime years for a central defender. He's hardly geriatric.

I don’t know any Boro fans!!!

Personally, I wouldn’t have wanted to pay much more than £7 for him though.

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, View from the Dolman said:

That link is uselessly incorrect.

They conceded 2 goals more than us. They scored 10 goals less than us. Their goal difference was -3, not -30 as per your link

And whichever way you work the numbers a difference of 39 in goal difference, doesn't mean they conceded 39 more goals.

See above.

 

[Red-Robbo]

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t know any Boro fans!!!

Personally, I wouldn’t have wanted to pay much more than £7 for him though.

Got a Boro brother-in-law. 

They paid more than £10m for Martin Braithwaite and from what I've seen in the World Cup he isn't much to write home about.

But my contention with Flint is that his value to us is above what we received. The word talisman, is quite correct IMO. 

[Leveller]

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I don’t know any Boro fans!!!

Personally, I wouldn’t have wanted to pay much more than £7 for him though.

£7 is a tad mean, I think!

[David Brent]

Wouldn’t you still rather have Flint and Reid, and not have the £17M?

[Mr Popodopolous]

Transfer fees are hard to gauge currently but definitely on an upward trajectory across the board.

David Brooks is apparently off to Bournemouth for £12m- now admittedly he's only 20 and he's an attacking mid, number 10 rather than a striker but 3 goals and 4 assists last year for Sheffield United- 9 starts and 21 sub appearances for a side who finished near us in the table...£12m.

Definitely unimpressed by the Flint deal though- as @Red-Robbo rightly said talisman, we got less than we should- plus his age range is about kicking into peak years for a Centre back. To another Championship side at that!

[Red-Robbo]

5 minutes ago, David Brent said:

Wouldn’t you still rather have Flint and Reid, and not have the £17M?

Given the time left on his contract and the fact he was sold to a higher division club, I knew Bobby would go.

Flinty: yes, I'd rather we still had him.

[Phileas Fogg]

6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Transfer fees are hard to gauge currently but definitely on an upward trajectory across the board.

David Brooks is apparently off to Bournemouth for £12m- now admittedly he's only 20 and he's an attacking mid, number 10 rather than a striker but 3 goals and 4 assists last year for Sheffield United- 9 starts and 21 sub appearances for a side who finished near us in the table...£12m.

Definitely unimpressed by the Flint deal though- as @Red-Robbo rightly said talisman, we got less than we should- plus his age range is about kicking into peak years for a Centre back. To a fellow Championship side at that!

I wonder if he had some sort of release clause

[Big C]

7 minutes ago, David Brent said:

Wouldn’t you still rather have Flint and Reid, and not have the £17M?

I'd take 7mill for Flint all day long. At 29 to get a fee which is close to a record for a Championship defender is good business. I know we will miss his goals but he primary duty is to defend and I know people will disagree with me but I don't consider him to be our best defender. I know I've mentioned it a couple of times on other threads but its an illuminating stat in the 9 games he has failed to start in the last three seasons we have kept 6 clean sheets. Bobby is a tricky one. Keep him and risk him being a one season wonder or take the 10mil? I think for 10 mil I will take the money and hope that our run in replacing strikers in recent seasons continues!

[Tin Soldier]

8 minutes ago, Big C said:

I'd take 7mill for Flint all day long. At 29 to get a fee which is close to a record for a Championship defender is good business. I know we will miss his goals but he primary duty is to defend and I know people will disagree with me but I don't consider him to be our best defender. I know I've mentioned it a couple of times on other threads but its an illuminating stat in the 9 games he has failed to start in the last three seasons we have kept 6 clean sheets. Bobby is a tricky one. Keep him and risk him being a one season wonder or take the 10mil? I think for 10 mil I will take the money and hope that our run in replacing strikers in recent seasons continues!

7Mill is not what Bristol City get as there are 20% sell on clauses involved with Swindon & Alfreton. After all paid out, it will be nearer 5MIll - which ain’t enough!

Well pissed off TBH.

[Alessandro]

1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

Ah. Fair enough. I've seen both sets of figures quoted.

Even at £7m we weren't mugging Boro in the deal.  Nowhere near. 

Still that Flint deal is, I believe, the 10th highest record transfer fee spent on a centre back in the championship.

[lenred]

4 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

Still that Flint deal is, I believe, the 10th highest record transfer fee spent on a centre back in the championship.

In a highly elevated market. It’s not comparing apples with apples to use that argument imho. In fact I think you yourself make that point when defending LJs signings (quite rightly). 

[Alessandro]

28 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I wonder if he had some sort of release clause

It’s my opinion that a Flint move has been coming for almost two years now and he only signed that new contract if it had a release clause, which Boro may well have been tipped off about.

The fact that he’s moved to another championship shows he wanted a move - shame it’s not to a premiership club but I suspect Boro will be a premier league club the season after this.

[Robbored]

According to the Tractor Boys Webster is something of a sick note. Only played 25 games for them last season........hope he can stay fit this coming season.

[Alessandro]

1 minute ago, lenred said:

In a highly elevated market. It’s not comparing apples with apples to use that argument imho. In fact I think you yourself make that point when defending LJs signings (quite rightly). 

That’s fair enough of course, but always a good starting point. I may well of said that, I can’t remember.

As you say though, it’s difficult to compare transfer fees alone - every deal is different which effects values - age, contract, selling club needs, buying club needs, player wishes etc....

£7m for a 28 championship centre back is a solid pay day for us and I don’t think we’d have got much more at that age, unless a premier league club came bidding too, which Flinty obviously didn’t want to wait around to find out.

Suspect we would have wanted more, but if that’s the bid that breaks a fair release clause, and the player bombs up there to complete the move, probably little that can be done.

[ChippenhamRed]

Whilst understanding and respecting the need for our club to operate in a sustainable way, I follow football for the adrenaline rush of goals and - hopefully - success. I don’t get the same feeling from a balance sheet.

Therefore I would always rather have £17m worth of talent on the pitch than £17m in the bank. I can’t get excited about the money and I’m not convinced by any gleeful claims of what a good deal we got. It’s only a good deal if we spend the money wisely and end up with a better squad than we started with.

[Big C]

32 minutes ago, GasDestroyer said:

7Mill is not what Bristol City get as there are 20% sell on clauses involved with Swindon & Alfreton. After all paid out, it will be nearer 5MIll - which ain’t enough!

Well pissed off TBH.

For a 29 year old defender who has never played above Championship level its plenty. If I was a Middlesbrough supporter I would be worried that we overpaid for him especially when you already have three younger (and decent) centre backs on your books, Ayala, Gibson and Fry. Granted Gibson may go now!

[Robinabank]

All the money in the world won't help if we spend it poorly or can't keep within FFP rules.

[REDOXO]

1 hour ago, David Brent said:

Wouldn’t you still rather have Flint and Reid, and not have the £17M?

I wouldn’t. Love Aiden great bloke, but cash in now would have been the mindset of both club and player. Bobby had one good season and was not going to sign, so happy days