Michelle Owen - Unity not Negativity

[SStandUp]

40 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

No I did not literally twist everything you said. I treated your post with courtesy.

You chose to reference Fulham. A possession based team. I then highlighted using facts how paper thin the ideal of Bristol City being a possession based team last season was.

Last years style was or the one at its most successful was not two years in the making. It was due to injury, it was not down to periodized approach in training and recruitment unless you believe players like Djuric and Famara could take part in high energy pressing and transitions, everybody could not play to the same plan … It is silly that notion.  

Liverpool press in periods in games season long.

Last year we were totally relentless .. Not correct. Bristol City pressed in periods using Reid as a trigger. Bristol City frequently screened and waited for that trigger. And when Famara, Djurc and Diony were included in the team pressing was hardly relentless. 

Bristol City inconsistency is down to the Manager. If your less than well defined identity is always in flux and not rooted in fundamentals of organized attack/defence, transition to attack/defence and set pieces the team has to be inconsistent. If your recruitment does not fit those fundamentals … Inconsistency again.

City play like two differing teams because its a reflection of Mr Johnsons ideas. Clarity (a favoured word of Mr Johnson) in approach creates faster and more in depth learning, it helps players adapt quicker to new teams. 

Mr Johnson lacks clarity, so his team does .. 

 

 

Also, the reason we played the way we did last year was because of Injury? Have you lost your head. The reason we stopped playing the way we were was because of injury.

"It wasn't down to a periodized approach in training" how do you know? You don't know. You're guessing. 

I don't know, you don't know. No one knows on this forum. 

 

[RedRock]

1 hour ago, ForeverRes said:

With regards to aerial threat, isn't famara meant to be that? He looked it last year, but he's terribly out of form. 

Abundance of wingers? Odowda, Eliasson, Watkins, Adekulan? Ok we've got maybe 1 too many? 

Brentfords recruitment has been very good. I'll give them that. Better than ours. We've tried to follow suit dipping into the foreign market, and have had some success, but also some shockers (Engvall). But we've also had some goodies from England (Brownhill, Odowda)

One too many?

Yep that’s probably Pato, possibly Brownhill, Watkins or Taylor or whoever else’s names falls out of the tombola.

 

One of the points I’m making, probably badly, is that recruitment - yet again - has failed to address what LJ has or should have recognised as priorities. Leaders anyone? Physically and mentally strong goal scoring central midfielders. A back up with aerial strength for Fammy who wasn’t that good at heading anyhow.  Yet we go out and splash the dosh on (more) bloody wingers.  Not a priority!

Don’t get me wrong I love wingers but there’s little point in having them if you haven’t a strong aerial threat. All that achieves is wingers cutting in and running in to trouble or not pushing the envelope to try and get crosses in because pyscologically they’re think ‘what’s the point’.

 

[Cowshed]

56 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Interested to know whether you were saying all this last year? 

Unless you are part of the City dressing room, I fail to understand how you would know Johnson lacks clarity. You have no idea the discussions or plans that take place. 

City pressed all over the pitch. Ofcourse it would start by Reid because he was closest to the ball, but the whole midfield pressed in waves. 

For the first half of last season, what was your thoughts? Because that was some of the best football I've seen a City team play at times. I assume it was a fluke? Because how could a guy with no plan or clarity oversee some of the best football this club has seen. 

Djuric/ Diedhou recruited as an alternative? Oh no can't be, because Johnson doesn't have a plan B. 

 

If you wish to check my posting history you will see that yes I made similar points regarding in particular Famaras return to the team and its impact. I made points regarding the recruitment of Diony and Kent not progressing the playing style but actively moving away from it.

Mr Johnson indicated frequently intent in interviews. His mention of "platforms" for instance was clearly linked to City going longer and vertical. The longer passing post Jan and less inter play through the thirds was not accidental.  

I would politely suggest that the teams most expensive forward would be purchased for the football it plays primarily. Yes there was a real element of chance in that football involving the injury of Famara. Mr Johnson did not spend that money to sit him on the bench as plan B. 

City did not press all over the pitch. The team clearly did differing things depending on personnel in the XI.  Famara was frequently closest to the ball but did not press the possession as first defender and trigger.

Mr Johnson lacks clarity in his football … Your post 167 does not paint a vivid picture of his teams football. Your post 167 paints a picture of a team lacking clarity. That is once again a reflection of the Manager ideas.  

46 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

Also, the reason we played the way we did last year was because of Injury? Have you lost your head. The reason we stopped playing the way we were was because of injury.

"It wasn't down to a periodized approach in training" how do you know? You don't know. You're guessing. 

I don't know, you don't know. No one knows on this forum. 

 

No. I have a very logical head. The teams peak in form was minus its most expensive (injured) striker. Logically that Famara if fit he would have played and thus altered that football. His injury contributed to City altering successfully how the team played.

No I am not guessing. Do you know what a periodized approach in training is? 

Bristol City did not start the season with the same front two. The team style altered, in pressing, transitions and passing patterns post injury to Famara . Therefore its approach is not periodized in training over months prior to that injury. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

6 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Can you answer the question I proposed to you. 

Because if you can't, the spouting sh*t comment is warranted. 

So have a think, any team in the world loses 3 of their best players, would you expect them to be better or worse? 

Why should I answer a question from a poster who says my opinions are ‘spouting shit’? You should learn to converse in a civil manner first. You seem to have some pent up aggression inside you that you can’t wait to unleash at anyone who disagrees with you....

[SStandUp]

9 hours ago, Cowshed said:

If you wish to check my posting history you will see that yes I made similar points regarding in particular Famaras return to the team and its impact. I made points regarding the recruitment of Diony and Kent not progressing the playing style but actively moving away from it.

Mr Johnson indicated frequently intent in interviews. His mention of "platforms" for instance was clearly linked to City going longer and vertical. The longer passing post Jan and less inter play through the thirds was not accidental.  

I would politely suggest that the teams most expensive forward would be purchased for the football it plays primarily. Yes there was a real element of chance in that football involving the injury of Famara. Mr Johnson did not spend that money to sit him on the bench as plan B. 

City did not press all over the pitch. The team clearly did differing things depending on personnel in the XI.  Famara was frequently closest to the ball but did not press the possession as first defender and trigger.

Mr Johnson lacks clarity in his football … Your post 167 does not paint a vivid picture of his teams football. Your post 167 paints a picture of a team lacking clarity. That is once again a reflection of the Manager ideas.  

No. I have a very logical head. The teams peak in form was minus its most expensive (injured) striker. Logically that Famara if fit he would have played and thus altered that football. His injury contributed to City altering successfully how the team played.

No I am not guessing. Do you know what a periodized approach in training is? 

Bristol City did not start the season with the same front two. The team style altered, in pressing, transitions and passing patterns post injury to Famara . Therefore its approach is not periodized in training over months prior to that injury. 

Diony was a £7m player, just 6 months before we signed him. Kent is a good player, end product appeared to be terrible however. But these were gambles we were forced to make because SL wasn't willing to splash the cash.

You have a short memory, because from the get go (Barnsley home), it was clear we had a new approach/ player style. 

Famara scored 13 goals last year and missed 4 months of football. I'd politely suggest. Famara started last season very well and fans were gutted when he was ruled out... LUCKY for us,  Bobby's form pulled us through (from a goals perspective). Just because Famara isn't the most mobile, it doesn't mean the intentions to press were not in the plans when signing him.

I find it remarkable how you are willing to hammer Johnson this year for the perceived lack of playing style. Yet aren't willing to aknlowedge his involvement in how well we played last year - instead we were lucky Famara got injured, because that meant we played the way we did 

Utterly Laughable.

Having said that, Famaras lack of form at the back end of last season and so far this season has meant we play more poorly with him. I agree with that. 

But history does suggest he's a goal threat. Because Weinmann and Taylor certainly aren't that. But that's what you get when you sell a £10m striker who scored 20+ goals and not replace him - this is not Johnson doing.

[SStandUp]

8 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Why should I answer a question from a poster who says my opinions are ‘spouting shit’? You should learn to converse in a civil manner first. You seem to have some pent up aggression inside you that you can’t wait to unleash at anyone who disagrees with you....

No disrespects. But clearly you can't 

[SStandUp]

10 hours ago, Moor2Sea said:

One too many?

Yep that’s probably Pato, possibly Brownhill, Watkins or Taylor or whoever else’s names falls out of the tombola.

 

One of the points I’m making, probably badly, is that recruitment - yet again - has failed to address what LJ has or should have recognised as priorities. Leaders anyone? Physically and mentally strong goal scoring central midfielders. A back up with aerial strength for Fammy who wasn’t that good at heading anyhow.  Yet we go out and splash the dosh on (more) bloody wingers.  Not a priority!

Don’t get me wrong I love wingers but there’s little point in having them if you haven’t a strong aerial threat. All that achieves is wingers cutting in and running in to trouble or not pushing the envelope to try and get crosses in because pyscologically they’re think ‘what’s the point’.

 

Watkins is a winger. And both Pato and Taylor have been successful playing wide? You're trying to be smart, but are making no real meaningful point. 

You make it sound so very easy. Name me a "good, strong, mentally tough goal scoring midfielder"... I can imagine these are very tough to come by. But are also prized possessions at other championship/ prem clubs. Why would they jump ship and join City. 

Famara is a serial threat. However, he's hideously out of form. A manager can't foresee everything. 

[BS4 on Tour...]

15 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Made me laugh. 

I can understand some of their points too. However, I draw the line at people who genuinely want Johnson gone. The reasons we aren't seeing significant progress isn't down to Johnson.

I haven’t once said I “want Johnson gone” - can’t you understand that people can be critical of the manager at times without calling for his head? Doubt you can to be honest....suggest you stop over-reacting and enjoy your Sunday....

[Cowshed]

22 hours ago, ForeverRes said:

Diony was a £7m player, just 6 months before we signed him. Kent is a good player, end product appeared to be terrible however. But these were gambles we were forced to make because SL wasn't willing to splash the cash.

You have a short memory, because from the get go (Barnsley home), it was clear we had a new approach/ player style. 

Famara scored 13 goals last year and missed 4 months of football. I'd politely suggest. Famara started last season very well and fans were gutted when he was ruled out... LUCKY for us,  Bobby's form pulled us through (from a goals perspective). Just because Famara isn't the most mobile, it doesn't mean the intentions to press were not in the plans when signing him.

I find it remarkable how you are willing to hammer Johnson this year for the perceived lack of playing style. Yet aren't willing to aknlowedge his involvement in how well we played last year - instead we were lucky Famara got injured, because that meant we played the way we did 

Utterly Laughable.

Having said that, Famaras lack of form at the back end of last season and so far this season has meant we play more poorly with him. I agree with that. 

But history does suggest he's a goal threat. Because Weinmann and Taylor certainly aren't that. But that's what you get when you sell a £10m striker who scored 20+ goals and not replace him - this is not Johnson doing.

Diony's financial worth is irrelevant to the points being made. Kent being a good player similar. The being made is about how would their aptitudes synch with the football the team played at the time. These were not gambles, Mr Ashton has articulated that BCFC go through a exhaustive process to assess players dna. These players did not progress the style, they moved the football away from it. 

If you check my posts (last season) I do give Mr Johnson praise for moving towards a defined playing style. I then make observations about how the tactics and recruitment were a clear intent to move away from this football - Identity and model of football again.

You have a short memory, because from the get go (Barnsley home), it was clear we had a new approach/ player style … Yes and months later the team was again playing differently. A inconsistent.

As for utterly laughable you again missed the point there as well. Famara …  How did his qualities fit the teams football? His touch? HIs movement? His intensity and athleticism without the ball? Bristol City played high tempo and high lines better without him because his skill set doesn't synch with that .. Famaras injury (luck a uncontrollable) played a significant part in Mr Johnson altering approach minus his first choice striker. Within that approach there was no player to cover the possible injury of Reid that could be viewed as laughable, or rank poor planning, or logically the football was always a tactical stop gap till Famara was fit.

You are using words like gamble and luck in your posts … But Mr Johnson uses project, identity, dna … There is supposedly a controlled framework guiding all of this. The overriding theme now still is inconsistency seasons in, ten of millions spent, tens of players and still no identity and solid playing principles.

[Sixtyseconds]

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 23:27, Moor2Sea said:

One too many?

Yep that’s probably Pato, possibly Brownhill, Watkins or Taylor or whoever else’s names falls out of the tombola.

 

One of the points I’m making, probably badly, is that recruitment - yet again - has failed to address what LJ has or should have recognised as priorities. Leaders anyone? Physically and mentally strong goal scoring central midfielders. A back up with aerial strength for Fammy who wasn’t that good at heading anyhow.  Yet we go out and splash the dosh on (more) bloody wingers.  Not a priority!

Don’t get me wrong I love wingers but there’s little point in having them if you haven’t a strong aerial threat. All that achieves is wingers cutting in and running in to trouble or not pushing the envelope to try and get crosses in because pyscologically they’re think ‘what’s the point’.

 

He hasn't answered the wingers thing has he!

I get it.

Its a bit like Chaos UK recruiting a bass player.

First gig in they find he can only play jazz.

[Davefevs]

Interesting discussion on Diedhiou and our style.

I can see why we brought him in....but the one I couldn’t understand was Djúric. 

[Sturny]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Interesting discussion on Diedhiou and our style.

I can see why we brought him in....but the one I couldn’t understand was Djúric. 

Djuric seemed to only shine when we were in good control of the game from what I saw.

Only watched him at home games tbf 

[downendcity]

On 12/10/2018 at 15:54, Cowshed said:

 

Eddie Howe implemented a model of play at Bournemouth.

Pep Guardiola did likewise at Man City.

Lee Johnson has not at Bristol City.

Oh yes he has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then he hasn't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then he has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Then he hasn't.

 

 

[Trueredsupporter]

On ‎13‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 19:38, ForeverRes said:

City's identity is a tough one.

I think last year we were quite clearly trying to be a high tempo team that presses off the ball and we're fast through transitions on the ball. 

It was identified during the summer that the high energy press system isn't realistic for 46 games a season. And Johnson said during pre season that we'll see a difference, mainly we press during periods. 

I think on the ball we've tried to become a possession based team, which we've seen positive signs off. The more you got the ball, the less time you spend chasing it. Everytime we get the ball, we don't look to attach with intent, for me that's a plan. We choose our moments. You look at teams like Fulham, they would run teams ragged. 

Although we've seen signs and decent periods, it's very inconsistent. But you got to remember this is a fairly new team in terms of personnel. They are still learning, last years team was 2 years in the making. 

What we've seen this year, is a team who clearly have a preferred way of playing, but not neccisarily the quality or confidence to play like that all the time! Hence we see the route one stuff when we come under a litter pressure.  But we will only get better. Did you see Jack Hunts tweet after Wednesday? Basically saying we are a new team who are always learning. You can't argue with that. 

I'm hoping the consistency will come with more game time and more time spent under the coaching of LJ. Because let's face it, we saw the way Johnson wants his teams to play last year, it was obvious. I just think this group need more time as we are transitioning again!

The Wigan and Rotherham games were unacceptable, terrible terrible football. I think players need to take some responsibility, but Johnson also needs to identify teams that playing our preferred way against will be tough. 

Apart from those two, we've been better, but not spectacular. The Wednesday game we played some nice stuff. It's just bringing all that together now. I think we lack some quality compared to last year, Reid was sensational and Bryan was a tremendous outlet. But we'll keep getting better, even though I think the odd Wigan game will still happen.

I think that's a fair ish summation mate? 

You gave it a go but it is a tough one reason being its not clear. @Moor2sea example of aerial goal threat is the Manager not going all out 100% behind that football.

[frenchred]

easy to resolve this one.

sack him, job done