Michelle Owen - Unity not Negativity

[SStandUp]

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-need-unity-not-2099297.amp?__twitter_impression=true

It appears she is also bemused by the negativity surrounding City at the moment. Despite us actually not doing too badly. 

I like how the Johnson out brigade try and dress it up like we're in some sort of crisis and that Johnson has done a terrible/ inadequate job since he arrived... whilst most onlookers who aren't wrapped up in the Johnson in/ out saga, actually suggest we're not going to badly - all things considered (but the LJ outers don't like to consider all facts, because it does fit their argument. 

[Robbored]

Indeed.

SL has appointed LJ to implement and carry out his strategy of achieving both sustainability and stability. The former would be achieved if LJ gets us to the PL along with recruiting young players from other clubs, developing them into the best they can be and that’s why LJ has signed so many players - many of them go straight out on loan - it makes me smile when he gets criticised for doing just that. Some fans just don’t fully grasp what the SL strategy is...........

Hopefully they’ll become good enough to be a viable option for the match day squad. If not they can move on to a smaller club thereby retreaving some of the intial fee or maybe even making a profit.

Imv SL has set LJ a tough task. He wants to see progress season on season but all the while with the transfers hand brake half on.......

[frenchred]

You keep clapping and believe what sky are telling you and then when anything pro Johnson is written duplicate it on here to bore everyone.

Not everyone has to share the same view as you and not everyone has to be pro Johnson just because you are and those looking in from afar.

Maybe they (and you) don't see the countless mistakes being made each season with no lessons learned

[David Brent]

So anyone who disagrees with her, and you, is wrong? Does her opinion mean more than anyone else’s? 

I’m not part of the ‘Johnson out brigade’ or part of any ‘in/out saga’ but I know LJ has got it wrong last few weeks and we’ve lost 4 in a row and I’ll say what I want.

I also gave credit when we won 4 in a row. It’s not fickle, it’s a reaction to our play and results. 

 

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Maybe they (and you) don't see the countless mistakes being made each season with no lessons learned

Care to highlight what these “countless mistakes” are?

[frenchred]

3 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Care to highlight what these “countless mistakes” are?

Sure, recruitment for one has been terrible, still not knowing his best 11, playing players so clearly out of form (Patterson), no identity, or at least very eroded, no plan b when a dodgy plan a don't work, substitutions, I'm sure there are many more!

[Davefevs]

You don’t have to be in the “Johnson Out” camp to be critical.  You paint it so black and white.

Be mindful that any manager is likely to have his faults, so criticism of LJ doesn’t mean Johnson Out.

Also, most posters accepted defeat at West Brom because of the performance....despite being 0-3, 1-4 at points in the game.  On the flip side, a draw at Rotherham but with a poor performance, was widely criticised.  If you want criticism based purely on results, then we should have 4 ecstatic post-match reactions on here, 4 ‘meh’ ones, and 4 meltdowns.  I think in the main OTIB has been pretty decent this season, recognising the mini-rebuild in the summer.  There will always be extreme outliers on both sides.  You’ve been on here long enough to scroll past those.

The other thing is that under LJ we’ve had runs of poor results (runs of good ones too), and the worry for many is that the current 5 games without a win will turn into 8, 9, 10.  If it does, then there will be questions internally at a City, let alone on here.

Go back to pre-season, what did lots of people post in terms of expectations?

A lot were along the lines of mid to top half of the the table....and no big losing / without a win runs....evidence that LJ really is learning.

However 12 (13 inc EFL Cup) games in, we have 3 runs already....one 4 game run without a win, one 4 game run of wins and one 5 game run without a win.

We all know the Championship is tough, anyone can beat anyone, but he has form, and you cannot ignore it.

Moving away from results, going back to para 3, I don’t think our performances have been consistent, either across a span of games, but even within games.  You cannot expect to dominate a game for 90 minutes, but I've not witnessed a series of games where we’ve been patchy in-game.  That’s not just poor, but good too.  Blackburn for example.  We started ok, then had a 15-20 minute spell where we gave every pass away, got caught in possession, etc.  Then played well second half.

The best performance was Swansea....that is the one game for me where we’ve played well all game, we were so in control all-90.  Those are a rarity though.

Your final sentence - 

23 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

- all things considered (but the LJ outers don't like to consider all facts, because it does fit their argument. 

I guess you mean ‘doesn’t fit their argument’?

I don’t want LJ Out, but SL will question the management team if they don’t deliver against targets.  We don’t know what they are. We hear SL talk top6, but we don’t know if that is media spin?  I would guess he wants progress and flirtation with the playoffs.  To that extent we are 3 points off if it, no great shakes at this stage of the season.  At the other end we are 7 points above relegation, and 5 points outside of the bottom 6.  That’s a reasonable, steady start all told.  I think most of us feel that way.

The big question is which direction to you see us going in?  Personally, from what I've seen performance wise (because typically over a season results will average out to reflect performances), I don’t think we’ll trouble the top 6, but I don’t see us getting involved in the other end too.  If that comes with mid-table, but players totally embedded to have a shot next season, I think it’s ok.  We shouldn’t complain about being mid-table, but we are no longer a fresh-Championship team either, I would say we are relatively established (as you can be at this level), and we certainly are no longer a bottom 6 club in terms of spending, so we can’t use that argument anymore.  We don’t have money to throw around either, but we are a mid-table team financially in terms of wage spend.

The next month or so will be very interesting.  We need to come out of the break refreshed and fighting.  Brentford away, followed by Hull and Stoke.  If we want to use the argument that we’ve played all the top teams in the main, we ought to be consistent with his we treat Hull (bottom) and Stoke (below us - just)....followed by Reading (away) and Preston (Home).  I don’t like predicting results in batches, but for the sake of this thread, getting 6-8 points will see us firmly mid/top half.  More than 8, we will be flirting with playoffs.  5 or less, we’ll be off the pace.

Rollercoaster ready?

[Robbored]

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

Sure, recruitment for one has been terrible, still not knowing his best 11, playing players so clearly out of form (Patterson), no identity, or at least very eroded, no plan b when a dodgy plan a don't work, substitutions, I'm sure there are many more!

You’re stating an opinion, not facts. 

 

 

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Care to highlight what these “countless mistakes” are?

You’ve read OTIB, and you’ve heard LJ admit to making mistakes himself.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Robbored said:

Indeed.

SL has appointed LJ to implement and carry out his strategy of achieving both sustainability and stability. The former would be achieved if LJ gets us to the PL along with recruiting young players from other clubs, developing them into the best they can be and that’s why LJ has signed so many players - many of them go straight out on loan - it makes me smile when he gets criticised for doing just that. Some fans just don’t fully grasp what the SL strategy is...........

Hopefully they’ll become good enough to be a viable option for the match day squad. If not they can move on to a smaller club thereby retreaving some of the intial fee or maybe even making a profit.

Imv SL has set LJ a tough task. He wants to see progress season on season but all the while with the transfers hand brake half on.......

1. we seem to be loaning in quite a few ourselves, in fact some of our best players recently....and some right rubbish as well mind.
2. We who are these young players we are developing and selling on at a profit over the last 3/4 windows
3. Sustainability and stability means spend as little as possible while making as much as possible
4. This plan has recently brought record winless runs and long periods of poor results
5. We will be on the road to no-where if as seems likely SL sticks with this plan as others like Brighton, Huddersfield even Cardiff pass us by.

[BobBobSuperBob]

49 minutes ago, ForeverRes said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-need-unity-not-2099297.amp?__twitter_impression=true

It appears she is also bemused by the negativity surrounding City at the moment. Despite us actually not doing too badly. 

I like how the Johnson out brigade try and dress it up like we're in some sort of crisis and that Johnson has done a terrible/ inadequate job since he arrived... whilst most onlookers who aren't wrapped up in the Johnson in/ out saga, actually suggest we're not going to badly - all things considered (but the LJ outers don't like to consider all facts, because it does fit their argument. 

Well......

if Michelle Owen has said so......

What a plum

[Robbored]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You’ve read OTIB, and you’ve heard LJ admit to making mistakes himself.

Tactics maybe along with occasional signing that didn’t work out. You could say that about any manager.

[Chappers]

For a smaller Championship club like us the options are -

A Spend money we don’t have with a small chance of success and a large chance of financial problems and relegation

B Run a tight ship, which should give us stability, and with smart recruitment, gives us a chance of promotion.

we are not getting everything right, but we seem to be establishing ourselves at this level, so we must be doing something right.

[East End Old Boy]

2 minutes ago, Chappers said:

For a smaller Championship club like us the options are -

A Spend money we don’t have with a small chance of success and a large chance of financial problems and relegation

B Run a tight ship, which should give us stability, and with smart recruitment, gives us a chance of promotion.

we are not getting everything right, but we seem to be establishing ourselves at this level, so we must be doing something right.

Simple analysis and spot on! I’m happy with this so I must be a........ 

[pongo88]

17 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You’re stating an opinion, not facts. 

 

 

I could say, you’re stating an option as well. That’s what the forum is all about, opinions. On the other hand, the evidence is before everyones’ eyes regarding some of the poor signings, tactics etc. My biggest gripes with LJ is he doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes 

[SStandUp]

17 minutes ago, Chappers said:

For a smaller Championship club like us the options are -

A Spend money we don’t have with a small chance of success and a large chance of financial problems and relegation

B Run a tight ship, which should give us stability, and with smart recruitment, gives us a chance of promotion.

we are not getting everything right, but we seem to be establishing ourselves at this level, so we must be doing something right.

Exactly my point. Everything off the pitch suggest sustainability and stability. Yeh on the pitch, a lot of fans expect world beaters. 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 hour ago, ForeverRes said:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-need-unity-not-2099297.amp?__twitter_impression=true

It appears she is also bemused by the negativity surrounding City at the moment. Despite us actually not doing too badly. 

I like how the Johnson out brigade try and dress it up like we're in some sort of crisis and that Johnson has done a terrible/ inadequate job since he arrived... whilst most onlookers who aren't wrapped up in the Johnson in/ out saga, actually suggest we're not going to badly - all things considered (but the LJ outers don't like to consider all facts, because it does fit their argument. 

We won’t hover on  the All time record run of defeats in our entire history But

Here’s a FACT for you

 

Since January 1st

37 Games

8 wins

15 defeats

14 draws

[SStandUp]

50 minutes ago, David Brent said:

So anyone who disagrees with her, and you, is wrong? Does her opinion mean more than anyone else’s? 

I’m not part of the ‘Johnson out brigade’ or part of any ‘in/out saga’ but I know LJ has got it wrong last few weeks and we’ve lost 4 in a row and I’ll say what I want.

I also gave credit when we won 4 in a row. It’s not fickle, it’s a reaction to our play and results. 

 

I don't think I stated that anywhere. All I'm suggesting is people seemed to be so wrapped up in Johnson (wanting him to fail / wanting him to succeed) that they are not recognising the facts that we are becoming a stable championship club, we are providing some sustainability and there are several reasons why we might not be progressing as fast as fans want us to be..

[TETBURY MASSIVE]

2 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We won’t hover on  the All time record run of defeats in our entire history But

Here’s a FACT for you

 

Since January 1st

37 Games

8 wins

15 defeats

14 draws

yeah... but.. but... but... but... but... 

[SStandUp]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

We won’t hover on  the All time record run of defeats in our entire history But

Here’s a FACT for you

 

Since January 1st

37 Games

8 wins

15 defeats

14 draws

But you won't recognise us being plagued with injury during the majority of that time, you won't recognising us not investing in January, you won't recognise us selling our best players in the summer, you won't recognise that we have a fairly new team and it'll take time.

Thats my point! It's all well and good referencing win %'s! But you can't ignore the many variables that have contributed 

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, ForeverRes said:

I don't think I stated that anywhere. All I'm suggesting is people seemed to be so wrapped up in Johnson (wanting him to fail / wanting him to succeed) that they are not recognising the facts that we are becoming a stable championship club, we are providing some sustainability and there are several reasons why we might not be progressing as fast as fans want us to be..

‘ people seemed to be so wrapped up in Johnson (in some kind of bizarre love in ) they ignore what they want they turn a blind eye and make continual excuses for him

[BobBobSuperBob]

1 minute ago, ForeverRes said:

But you won't recognise us being plagued with injury during the majority of that time, you won't recognising us not investing in January, you won't recognise us selling our best players in the summer, you won't recognise that we have a fairly new team and it'll take time.

Thats my point! It's all well and good referencing win %'s! But you can't ignore the many variables that have contributed 

 

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

‘ people seemed to be so wrapped up in Johnson (in some kind of bizarre love in ) they ignore what they want they turn a blind eye and make continual excuses for him

Thanks

Think you’ve just proved my point

[SStandUp]

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You don’t have to be in the “Johnson Out” camp to be critical.  You paint it so black and white.

Be mindful that any manager is likely to have his faults, so criticism of LJ doesn’t mean Johnson Out.

Also, most posters accepted defeat at West Brom because of the performance....despite being 0-3, 1-4 at points in the game.  On the flip side, a draw at Rotherham but with a poor performance, was widely criticised.  If you want criticism based purely on results, then we should have 4 ecstatic post-match reactions on here, 4 ‘meh’ ones, and 4 meltdowns.  I think in the main OTIB has been pretty decent this season, recognising the mini-rebuild in the summer.  There will always be extreme outliers on both sides.  You’ve been on here long enough to scroll past those.

The other thing is that under LJ we’ve had runs of poor results (runs of good ones too), and the worry for many is that the current 5 games without a win will turn into 8, 9, 10.  If it does, then there will be questions internally at a City, let alone on here.

Go back to pre-season, what did lots of people post in terms of expectations?

A lot were along the lines of mid to top half of the the table....and no big losing / without a win runs....evidence that LJ really is learning.

However 12 (13 inc EFL Cup) games in, we have 3 runs already....one 4 game run without a win, one 4 game run of wins and one 5 game run without a win.

We all know the Championship is tough, anyone can beat anyone, but he has form, and you cannot ignore it.

Moving away from results, going back to para 3, I don’t think our performances have been consistent, either across a span of games, but even within games.  You cannot expect to dominate a game for 90 minutes, but I've not witnessed a series of games where we’ve been patchy in-game.  That’s not just poor, but good too.  Blackburn for example.  We started ok, then had a 15-20 minute spell where we gave every pass away, got caught in possession, etc.  Then played well second half.

The best performance was Swansea....that is the one game for me where we’ve played well all game, we were so in control all-90.  Those are a rarity though.

Your final sentence - 

I guess you mean ‘doesn’t fit their argument’?

I don’t want LJ Out, but SL will question the management team if they don’t deliver against targets.  We don’t know what they are. We hear SL talk top6, but we don’t know if that is media spin?  I would guess he wants progress and flirtation with the playoffs.  To that extent we are 3 points off if it, no great shakes at this stage of the season.  At the other end we are 7 points above relegation, and 5 points outside of the bottom 6.  That’s a reasonable, steady start all told.  I think most of us feel that way.

The big question is which direction to you see us going in?  Personally, from what I've seen performance wise (because typically over a season results will average out to reflect performances), I don’t think we’ll trouble the top 6, but I don’t see us getting involved in the other end too.  If that comes with mid-table, but players totally embedded to have a shot next season, I think it’s ok.  We shouldn’t complain about being mid-table, but we are no longer a fresh-Championship team either, I would say we are relatively established (as you can be at this level), and we certainly are no longer a bottom 6 club in terms of spending, so we can’t use that argument anymore.  We don’t have money to throw around either, but we are a mid-table team financially in terms of wage spend.

The next month or so will be very interesting.  We need to come out of the break refreshed and fighting.  Brentford away, followed by Hull and Stoke.  If we want to use the argument that we’ve played all the top teams in the main, we ought to be consistent with his we treat Hull (bottom) and Stoke (below us - just)....followed by Reading (away) and Preston (Home).  I don’t like predicting results in batches, but for the sake of this thread, getting 6-8 points will see us firmly mid/top half.  More than 8, we will be flirting with playoffs.  5 or less, we’ll be off the pace.

Rollercoaster ready?

Oh come on. Stop dressing it up like I said.

The reality is, people don't like Johnson. They love hammering the bloke when things aren't going as they like, without taking in any other variables.

All in all it's creating a horrendous atmosphere/ vibe around AG.

Maybe it would be better if he left. 

[reddogkev]

Where is Michelle Owen from?  Why is she involved in City affairs anyway?  Is she actually Michael Owen's sister, or Michael Owen dressing as a woman?  They do look a bit similar.

[SStandUp]

1 minute ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

 

Thanks

Think you’ve just proved my point

No I haven't. I'm just bringing to your attention the reasons why perhaps, things are the way they are. 

You don't even consider any other variable. 

Would you suggest that it's unreasonable if we finish mid table? Because that's the kind of form we're showing. And all things considered, that's probably about right. 

[SStandUp]

1 hour ago, frenchred said:

You keep clapping and believe what sky are telling you and then when anything pro Johnson is written duplicate it on here to bore everyone.

Not everyone has to share the same view as you and not everyone has to be pro Johnson just because you are and those looking in from afar.

Maybe they (and you) don't see the countless mistakes being made each season with no lessons learned

Why should we be so negative?

Everything we are doing off the field screams mid table. Surprise surprise we're mid table.

You can't sell your best players and not replace them to the same quality and expect to be getting better? - having said that, its stabilising the club financially and it's providing some sustainability. Which after all, is the plan! Whether you like it or not!

[BobBobSuperBob]

Just now, ForeverRes said:

No I haven't. I'm just bringing to your attention the reasons why perhaps, things are the way they are. 

You don't even consider any other variable. 

Would you suggest that it's unreasonable if we finish mid table? Because that's the kind of form we're showing. And all things considered, that's probably about right. 

Let’s see where we finish

Lets see who we sell next and how we are going to fund the next splash on some new widemen for Lee

The sales cupboard looks a bit thin

’These things take time’. - 3 years , 50 odd signings ......

Have we progressed.......really

[Alessandro]

I notice that we’ve gone from:

“LJ taking us another losing run”

to

”LJ taking us on another winless run”

Slight difference...must be  Progress?? 

I think if we can all agree we are currently a mid-table outfit - we’ll probably have to get used to more draws and more ‘winless’ spells.

[reddogkev]

1 minute ago, ForeverRes said:

No I haven't. I'm just bringing to your attention the reasons why perhaps, things are the way they are. 

You don't even consider any other variable. 

Would you suggest that it's unreasonable if we finish mid table? Because that's the kind of form we're showing. And all things considered, that's probably about right. 

Like you've acknowledged with this thread, City are currently doing exceptionally well as a club - growing each season in the Championship, drawing in record crowds (despite the higher ticket prices), and developing academy players so they can hold their own and flourish in the Championship.  We are in fantastic shape.

Despite this, I think there's only about 4 or 5 people on here who really want shot of Lee Johnson and seem to be obsessed by it.

They are quite vociferous with their comments and post them with such frequency that it seems to be a wider held view.  When I posted about not having to take issue with LJ, the likes went through the roof.  Most people are quite content with LJ and can see that he is doing a decent job.  Long may the man continue pushing the club forwards.

[SStandUp]

6 minutes ago, BobBobSuperBob said:

Let’s see where we finish

Lets see who we sell next and how we are going to fund the next splash on some new widemen for Lee

The sales cupboard looks a bit thin

’These things take time’. - 3 years , 50 odd signings ......

Have we progressed.......really

Yes. Financially yes. And unfortunately for you, that's the plan. It's to provide the club with stability and sustainability. We are a stable championship club, we arent going down and we don't particularly look like challenging in the top 6. But that's who and what we are.

Have we progressed on the pitch since Johnson? Yes.