Placebo?

[chinapig]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Thanks for everyone’s comments. When writing it, it felt a bit like a cry for help....in so much as I must be missing something obvious.  I am a mere outsider looking in to world of professional football from a seat in the LS and posting on a forum. As Robbored said in another post that most of us have no coaching qualifications, do not spend hours per day over several months with the squad, yet feel qualified to critique someone that does.

Too bloody right it does!.

it gives me zero pleasure, I actually feel a bit “dirty” for writing what I did.

But it is my view and a number of you, far more appreciative of the game than me, felt similar things. 

I haven’t even gone into detail on individual performances or rated players out of 10, not analysed why Preston were the better side. 

I will listen to LJ’s post match presser and see what that picture that paints. I’m hoping it demonstrates that the “outsiders” (like me) are on the outside because we don’t understand the realm world of football!!

 

First of all I think you understate your understanding of the game, judging by your many insightful posts over a long period. Don't hide your light under a bushel!

I tend to avoid the rather childish happy clappers/moaners threads and posts that consist of personal abuse of LJ, players or fellow posters.

You, and others on this thread, have shown how it is possible to be critical in an intelligent, articulate and heartfelt way while avoiding the above nonsense.

Oh, and I agree with everything you say! 

[Garland-sweden]

Yesterday was really unreal. We got 11 players and non of them know what to do. One, 1, shoot on goal ! Confidence not there, you could see it from the first minute. Really worried at the moment, normally Im optimistic, but after yesterday its impossible to find something positive. Leeds away is a good game for us. We will park the bus and play defensive. At that game the team have a plan, away with the ball. The staff and the players really should ask them self, what are we doing?

[Gakoe]

Some excellent posts in this thread. A very interesting read.

[exAtyeoMax]

@Davefevs So what did you think of LJ’s post match presser? Did it shed any light? 

[DaveInSA]

Exactly this @Davefevs.

I'd really love to write something meaningful and well thought through in support.

What I would like to add, is that you can be a great "coach" and a terrible "leader" (or manager). You can do all your coaching badges, learn from the best in the game, do everything well on the training field. If you don't have a strategy, which your team buys into, understands, aligns with, and implements, then you're riding up diarrhoea drive without a saddle.

I think this is what LJ is. A great coach. A terrible leader (or manager).

My 2 cents is that I reckon he has a role, but not as a manger. He worries too much about the opposition. I think stemming from the fact that he doesn't want us to concede. But we have zero cohesion when he does this. 

14th in the division is where we deserve to be. But, and it's a big but, we absolutely need to improve. On paper, looking at the table, we should have nailed some of these games, we didn't (I forgot - we're Bristol City!) We can't afford the inconsistency. 

And that, is totally down to the manager.

Football is a simple game. Get back to basics. Do what we do well and do it in every game. Drop the players who aren't in form and pull in someone else.

I don't go to AG any more - I want to enjoy myself. The atmosphere is shocking.

Maybe, football has sold its soul, which for me is the saddest thing of all.

 

 

[Toffee dog]

Depressing read so haven’t read every post but agree with a lot if not all that’s been said. Saw the side & thought attack down the flanks for the two strikers to get into the box with midfield providing support. Pack & Walsh providing the creativity & Brownhill supporting the strikers, first 5-10 minutes signs looked promising, what followed was inept clueless & worrying.

So bloody angry or was it resignation not sure, went out last night & couldn’t even get drunk as I was driving!

[Always Believesham]

2 hours ago, chinapig said:

First of all I think you understate your understanding of the game, judging by your many insightful posts over a long period. Don't hide your light under a bushel!

I tend to avoid the rather childish happy clappers/moaners threads and posts that consist of personal abuse of LJ, players or fellow posters.

You, and others on this thread, have shown how it is possible to be critical in an intelligent, articulate and heartfelt way while avoiding the above nonsense.

Oh, and I agree with everything you say! 

I agree with this - and the original post

I partly agree with @Harry, the players were poor yesterday - especially the crossing, wasting numerous good opportunities. Johnson can’t have that as a defence though because he praised the deliveries yesterday in his interview! I did think the volleys of abuse were a little unfair when Walsh was withdrawn, it was obvious the tactics weren’t working and changing the shape was the only way to fix that.

The tinkering to try and maximise the deficiencies in the opposition does not work. Even having Elliasson on the right is doing more harm than good, he is not going to cut in and shoot and a promising young player ends up looking like a budget Campbell-Ryce.

Near the end when I started to think, if we shot, we may have rescued a point from a game Preston strangled the life out of. Which just reminded me of the reasons Lansdown gave for sacking O’Driscoll when he did, it was after we’d gone 2-0 down to Leyton Orient and managed to get a 2-2 draw despite playing badly. I got the impression it was because fans were relieved SL felt he needed to act. Had we equalised yesterday, it would have been the same feeling of relief and this team are not going to the play-offs this year.

Since then, we have moved up a division and a half and have lost 2 on the bounce to relegation threatened teams who are only going to stay up if they scrap and fight all season - Johnson making if not the same mistakes exactly, the same philosophical errors, will count against him and I have no doubt the board will be considering his position over the international break.

There are 6 games until Christmas, of those we have 3 tough away games and 1 tough home game. 9 points is not an unrealistic target but less than 6 would be borderline disastrous. I think either something will happen before that 6 game run starts or after he’s had chance to play it out. Unless we get drubbed 4/5-0 at some point. Either way, I don’t think last season’s start was a fluke but he needs to replicate that kind of form now because the fans/owners are buying into the hysteria he generated last season that we are more than just a middling championship team.

[Davefevs]

38 minutes ago, exAtyeoMax said:

@Davefevs So what did you think of LJ’s post match presser? Did it shed any light? 

Listened just now. Felt sorry for the bloke. I thought he talked from his heart. There was no BS in the first 6 minutes, a bit after that re style of play etc. 

Normally after games like this I listen to LJ and think I’ve watched a totally different game.  This time not, he pretty much called out the same observations I made.

As for the Diedhiou question, why has Dave Barton asked him that?  It’s an awful question and if LJ sanity checks the Qs beforehand he’s set himself up. If not, then DB has thrown him a hospital pass (which is appropriate lingo given his rugby background!).  What is he supposed to say?  Fam was great when he wasn’t!  Or be honest but tactful (which he was) and hope Fam doesn’t feel he’s been singled out. 

He does need to stop singling out “Browny” for praise. He was no better or worse than anyone else yesterday, and that might irk one or two players. 

[Red Exile]

3 minutes ago, solihull cider red said:

...the fans/owners are buying into the hysteria he generated last season that we are more than just a middling championship team.

I think the danger point for LJ - which for the future of the club has hopefully been reached - is when the fans/owners look around them and conclude that whilst the playing squad has all the qualities of more than just a middling championship team the weak link is the manager and his team on the bench...

[1960maaan]

10 hours ago, RedSA said:

I feel like LJ is probably overstudied. I think he genuinely understands a lot about the game and the multitude of different approaches tactically, organisationally and psychologically. But this is actually his downfall, as he has so many potential 'levers' to pull (great analogy @Davefevs) it just becomes a lottery to which coaching idea he is going to apply week to week. 

From my experience the leaders that excel in given areas are the ones that have a cohesive approach and vision, which normally has been developed with a certain level of authenticity through their unique experiences or alternatively because its the only way they CAN do it. They may (not necessarily) have a wide range of knowledge and understanding, but they will funnel that through the way THEY see things. I feel that despite what LJ says he doesn't really have his OWN vision/identity, just a melting pot of abstract ideas he likes from other people. He tries to be all things for all men and seems afraid to commit to a specific approach/team/management style in case its the wrong one. The point though is that its not necessarily about which approach you use, they all have pros and cons, its about how well you execute it.

The time comes where you HAVE to create your own limitations and choose a path, otherwise you end up lost, ineffectual and lacking authority (as you don't have the 'authorship' of the direction you're taking).

Whether LJ will figure this out before its too late, I'm not sure. 

 

 

Great post. 
I'm sure someone, maybe even LJ himself, said that (after our record breaking run of defeats) he over complicated things . Things were supposed to have changed, but to be honest when we hit this sort of form it's hard to see a way out. No one (very few at least) likes Warnock, but what a leader he must be, if only he used his power for good.
For me the highlighted section absolutely nailed it,  after all this time he still hasn't stamped his self on the club. Between going along with club policy , buying to make a profit and trying to carry pick from top coaches he has ended up with no firm direction of his own. This has to impact on players , I've worked for good bosses and some stinkers but also some you wonder how they got there. If we had strong leaders on the pitch it could go some way to making things work, it's been said before that leaders are the one thing we lack. 
As to your last line , Whether LJ will figure this out before its too late , I think it will take a very big change in his attitude/mindset/direction call it what you like, it will take large change to LJ himself to make any sizeable change to the current team. Lets not forget, Johnson keeps saying this is a new side ,  well the old one under him and with £23m worth of players managed to lose games just as poorly. Common denominator ??????

[Corsham Ed]

Fantastic post Dave. I could not put into words on how I feel at present, but you have summed it perfectly. 

‘I have followed the club for over 40 years, and like most seen many highs and lows along the way, and at present we’re heading to another low. The performance yesterday was shocking, and to sum it up, I noticed one person sitting in close proximity watching the rugby, this to me shows how bad we are at present. Will it change, i’m not so sure, but I do agree with some on here, is that currently we’re heading in one direction, and that is down to a relegation battle.

[pongo88]

An excellent summary of the problem @Davefevs . Judging by the comments posted, most of the forum users seem to agree with you. I have no inside knowledge of what happens within the club, but I get the impression that the players  agree with you as well. Saturday was bad but, on numerous other occasions as well,  the players have seemed to be just going through the motions without any real conviction. 

I like the analogy of the placebo, but LJ’s style has always reminded me of my work with process / continuous improvement techniques.  LJ and Steve Lansdown often talk of a slow continuous improvement whereby the playing side of things improves slightly each year. I worked with people who believed they were implementing continuous improvement but below the surface  continuous improvement was an illusion. Despite on-going improvement programmes, what was really happening was continuous tinkering. I’m sure that LJ, SL and the rest of the management team believe they are making small incremental changes that will lead to long term improvements. When the tinkering, by pure chance, results in a series of good performances, then LJ’s belief in his ability is reinforced. When, also by pure chance, it results in a series of defeats, it reinforces LJ’s need to tinker and so the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum. 

 

 

[Davefevs]

12 minutes ago, pongo88 said:

An excellent summary of the problem @Davefevs . Judging by the comments posted, most of the forum users seem to agree with you. I have no inside knowledge of what happens within the club, but I get the impression that the players  agree with you as well. Saturday was bad but, on numerous other occasions as well,  the players have seemed to be just going through the motions without any real conviction. 

I like the analogy of the placebo, but LJ’s style has always reminded me of my work with process / continuous improvement techniques.  LJ and Steve Lansdown often talk of a slow continuous improvement whereby the playing side of things improves slightly each year. I worked with people who believed they were implementing continuous improvement but below the surface  continuous improvement was an illusion. Despite on-going improvement programmes, what was really happening was continuous tinkering. I’m sure that LJ, SL and the rest of the management team believe they are making small incremental changes that will lead to long term improvements. When the tinkering, by pure chance, results in a series of good performances, then LJ’s belief in his ability is reinforced. When, also by pure chance, it results in a series of defeats, it reinforces LJ’s need to tinker and so the cycle repeats itself ad infinitum. 

 

 

Interesting.  I really like this....and I think it matches the runs of good followed by bad (or vice versus, depending on your starting point) that we’ve seen.  Nice one 

[Merrick's Marvels]

If only there were a lever marked "trapdoor".

[Red Skin]

I think he's fallen into the trap of over coaching again. 

He sees himself as some sort of Michelin star chef that can conjure up a victory from any ingredients he has available.  

He needs to whip out some old classics like Sunday roast, bangers and mash, steak and chips, chicken in basket, and scampi and chips.  He also needs to stop changing the menu each bloody Saturday!!!