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Sexism in football

daored

By daored
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TMWANG50

TMWANG50

Posted
Posted

It's an interesting debate as the likes of Gaby Logan and Claire Balding have been excellent hosts on sports program's (including male sports) for years. I don't remember them getting too much flack as they are good at what they do, but as a pundit you appear to be on a whole different level of scrutiny. I can't say I am a big fan of any of the newer crop of female TV pundits bar Michelle Owen who I thing does very well on Sky unlike Bianca Westwood who seems to play up to the "Bird" image.

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Aaron-Bcfc

Aaron-Bcfc

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Posted
17 hours ago, EmissionImpossible said:

But do you need to have played a decent level? If the person is articulate, knowledgeable and insightful, surely that’s enough and that doesn’t have to have come from playing at a high level.

I agree but it’s funny you should mention this because in that BT debate Jake Humphries made it very clear that they would never consider getting a male pundit in who had played in the 4th tier his whole career, just like they wouldn’t get a female who’d played in the women’s 4th tier. However they do appoint those who have played at the “elite” level in both the male and female versions of the sport. Found that funny because they’re already ruling out Mourinho with that logic, one of the greatest managers of all time.

The issue I have is that you can’t possibly compare the elite level of men’s football to women’s, when the worlds “elite” women get regularly trounced by boys u15’s academy sides. See the below links...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4389760/USA-women-s-team-suffer-5-2-loss-FC-Dallas-U-15-boys.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/australian-womens-national-team-lose-70-to-team-of-15yearold-boys-a3257266.html

Makes Humphries point completely invalid in my eyes.

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Chloe1992

Chloe1992

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Posted

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jeff Stelling has never kicked a ball in his life, yet presents the most popular sports show in the whole of the UK. Granted he is a presenter, not a pundit, but his knowledge of football is vast and his opinions on games are taken as gospel by most fans. 

To say Alex Scott doesn't have a clue about how it feels to win trophies is ridiculous. Doesn't matter whether you're playing for the Sunday team or Premier League, lifting a trophy is one of the best feelings and she has every right to say that considering the amount of trophies she has won at the very top level of woman's football.

The whole point is she has the technical knowledge, experience and composure to be a great pundit - and so far she's doing a good job? The day when Paul Merson gets the same level of criticism for the amount of cock ups on SSN, then Alex Scott/Bianca Westwood/Michelle Owen etc. can receive the same. 

Great to see the progressive comments on this thread, but disappointed (but not surprised) that the old mindset exists. 

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Super

Super

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, TMWANG50 said:

It's an interesting debate as the likes of Gaby Logan and Claire Balding have been excellent hosts on sports program's (including male sports) for years. I don't remember them getting too much flack as they are good at what they do, but as a pundit you appear to be on a whole different level of scrutiny. I can't say I am a big fan of any of the newer crop of female TV pundits bar Michelle Owen who I thing does very well on Sky unlike Bianca Westwood who seems to play up to the "Bird" image.

Clare Balding is the worst presenter on TV.

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Kingswood Robin

Kingswood Robin

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Chloe1992 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jeff Stelling has never kicked a ball in his life, yet presents the most popular sports show in the whole of the UK. Granted he is a presenter, not a pundit, but his knowledge of football is vast and his opinions on games are taken as gospel by most fans. 

To say Alex Scott doesn't have a clue about how it feels to win trophies is ridiculous. Doesn't matter whether you're playing for the Sunday team or Premier League, lifting a trophy is one of the best feelings and she has every right to say that considering the amount of trophies she has won at the very top level of woman's football.

The whole point is she has the technical knowledge, experience and composure to be a great pundit - and so far she's doing a good job? The day when Paul Merson gets the same level of criticism for the amount of cock ups on SSN, then Alex Scott/Bianca Westwood/Michelle Owen etc. can receive the same. 

Great to see the progressive comments on this thread, but disappointed (but not surprised) that the old mindset exists. 

I take your point about Merson and others, male or female. If you can't do the job, you shouldn't be doing it, regardless of experience. You are right, it matters not whether you win trophies at Sunday league or champions league level. My concern is that a male, playing at exactly the same standard (not equivalent) as the women's game, may be articulate, knowledgeable and successful, but would never be asked to be a pundit for a match at the pinnacle of the game. Is that fair?

As an aside, I'd prefer to see more current managers as pundits than ex-pros from 20/30 years ago, the games moved on a lot since their day.  

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reddoh

reddoh

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Posted
15 minutes ago, Alan Dicks said:

They should be in the kitchen.

but remember not to chain them to the kitchen sink as they wont be able to clean the rest of the house.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

deepest apologies to all the ladies on this site just a very  old joke and no offense meant.

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Sir Colby-Tit

Sir Colby-Tit

Posted
Posted
52 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I take your point about Merson and others, male or female. If you can't do the job, you shouldn't be doing it, regardless of experience. You are right, it matters not whether you win trophies at Sunday league or champions league level. My concern is that a male, playing at exactly the same standard (not equivalent) as the women's game, may be articulate, knowledgeable and successful, but would never be asked to be a pundit for a match at the pinnacle of the game. Is that fair?

As an aside, I'd prefer to see more current managers as pundits than ex-pros from 20/30 years ago, the games moved on a lot since their day.  

It's an interesting debate for sure. I would add though that when it comes to punditry, on screen persona must be taken into account. 

How the #### Mark Lawrenson ever got the MOTD gig I'll never know. 

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Chloe1992

Chloe1992

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Kingswood Robin said:

I take your point about Merson and others, male or female. If you can't do the job, you shouldn't be doing it, regardless of experience. You are right, it matters not whether you win trophies at Sunday league or champions league level. My concern is that a male, playing at exactly the same standard (not equivalent) as the women's game, may be articulate, knowledgeable and successful, but would never be asked to be a pundit for a match at the pinnacle of the game. Is that fair?

As an aside, I'd prefer to see more current managers as pundits than ex-pros from 20/30 years ago, the games moved on a lot since their day.  

I take your point, but it's all about representation, not political correctness for me. By bringing in some female pundits, it will help young girls feel represented in the world of football, and encourage their presence in the game.

I have supported City since I was little girl, but if it wasn't for my Dad dragging me along to the games and encouraging me to get involved in the team at school, I honestly don't see where my interest in football would have came from which is sad. Perhaps with some female pundits around young girls will feel different.

Current managers and recently retired pros are definitely where the better punditry is at, as you say, the game has changed! What was once a hard tackle is now a red card!

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Natchfever

Natchfever

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chloe1992 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jeff Stelling has never kicked a ball in his life, yet presents the most popular sports show in the whole of the UK. Granted he is a presenter, not a pundit, but his knowledge of football is vast and his opinions on games are taken as gospel by most fans. 

To say Alex Scott doesn't have a clue about how it feels to win trophies is ridiculous. Doesn't matter whether you're playing for the Sunday team or Premier League, lifting a trophy is one of the best feelings and she has every right to say that considering the amount of trophies she has won at the very top level of woman's football.

The whole point is she has the technical knowledge, experience and composure to be a great pundit - and so far she's doing a good job? The day when Paul Merson gets the same level of criticism for the amount of cock ups on SSN, then Alex Scott/Bianca Westwood/Michelle Owen etc. can receive the same. 

Great to see the progressive comments on this thread, but disappointed (but not surprised) that the old mindset exists. 

You are spot on about Stelling he is a presenter not a pundit and Alex Scott knows as much about the games she is offering insights into as someone who has played for a dominant non league side.

I would like to see the Merson's Le Tissier's of this world swept aside, and perhaps Alex Scott is better than them. However, she is not as credible as many who will never get beyond the EFL shows, because they are only men.

No one says she doesn't know what it is like to win trophies incidentally, just the one she was referring to. .

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Chloe1992

Chloe1992

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Posted
1 hour ago, Loon plage said:

You are spot on about Stelling he is a presenter not a pundit and Alex Scott knows as much about the games she is offering insights into as someone who has played for a dominant non league side.

I would like to see the Merson's Le Tissier's of this world swept aside, and perhaps Alex Scott is better than them. However, she is not as credible as many who will never get beyond the EFL shows, because they are only men.

No one says she doesn't know what it is like to win trophies incidentally, just the one she was referring to. .

She is just as credible as the men that you’re referring to. Women’s football might not be as high level as men’s, but that doesn’t make her any less knowledgable and professional about the game than men who have played in the lower leagues. Maybe the Mersons of the world can step down for some of the men that can’t get past the EFL shows? Why is that never suggested? Why does it have to be the ‘token woman’? As I said before, she is representing women in football, something that has never really been done before and doing a brilliant job at that, whilst recieving some horrific online abuse.

Just admit you don’t want women anywhere near football and be done with it.

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Redandwhitescarf

Redandwhitescarf

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23 hours ago, Robbored said:

I see it this way - former footballers now pundits will have played for numerous different managers and will have been privy to all the positional and tactical discussions throughout their careers and carry that knowledge with them into pundentry.

Female pundits, regardless of their knowledge and understanding of the game simply don’t have that depth of experience.

So playing for a successful team lime Arsenal , oh and the small matter of England doesn't count as experience then ?

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Natchfever

Natchfever

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19 minutes ago, Chloe1992 said:

She is just as credible as the men that you’re referring to. Women’s football might not be as high level as men’s, but that doesn’t make her any less knowledgable and professional about the game than men who have played in the lower leagues. Maybe the Mersons of the world can step down for some of the men that can’t get past the EFL shows? Why is that never suggested? Why does it have to be the ‘token woman’? As I said before, she is representing women in football, something that has never really been done before and doing a brilliant job at that, whilst recieving some horrific online abuse.

Just admit you don’t want women anywhere near football and be done with it.

What a silly immature final sentence. Why does she get a place at the top table ? Ability or gender ?? The latter surely.

Men working on the EFL programs wont get as far as her despite in many instances having played at the top level and knowing exactly what its like to play at the major stadia in the country in front of sell out crowds because they werent deemed to be "names". 

She is in place because of gender and dare I say it looks. 

I never said I dont want women "anywhere near football" whatever that means. What I do want are the best qualified and talented people to work in the right roles.Women presenters reportes commentators ? Why not Pundits ? No thanks.

3 minutes ago, Redandwhitescarf said:

So playing for a successful team lime Arsenal , oh and the small matter of England doesn't count as experience then ?

Not relevant experience though is it ?

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Chloe1992

Chloe1992

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

What a silly immature final sentence. Why does she get a place at the top table ? Ability or gender ?? The latter surely.

Men working on the EFL programs wont get as far as her despite in many instances having played at the top level and knowing exactly what its like to play at the major stadia in the country in front of sell out crowds because they werent deemed to be "names". 

She is in place because of gender and dare I say it looks. 

I never said I dont want women "anywhere near football" whatever that means. What I do want are the best qualified and talented people to work in the right roles.Women presenters reportes commentators ? Why not Pundits ? No thanks.

Not relevant experience though is it ?

Not immature at all, that is precisely what you want to say without saying it. 

Men have been represented at the ‘top table’ ever since punditry began. It’s about time women were aswell because guess what? People without a penis have an opinion on football too. 

Did you have a problem with the lower league pundits not having a chance before? I guess not. Did you call for Paul Merson, Paul Ince, Robbie Savage to name a few to step down for these professional, articulate men on the EFL shows? I doubt it. You only had a problem when the women showed up. 

They’re here to stay my friend, get used to it and maybe have an actual listen to their analysis, you might learn a thing or two. Good night ?

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Natchfever

Natchfever

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Chloe1992 said:

Not immature at all, that is precisely what you want to say without saying it. 

Men have been represented at the ‘top table’ ever since punditry began. It’s about time women were aswell because guess what? People without a penis have an opinion on football too. 

Did you have a problem with the lower league pundits not having a chance before? I guess not. Did you call for Paul Merson, Paul Ince, Robbie Savage to name a few to step down for these professional, articulate men on the EFL shows? I doubt it. You only had a problem when the women showed up. 

They’re here to stay my friend, get used to it and maybe have an actual listen to their analysis, you might learn a thing or two. Good night ?

So in summary, Alex is there to represent women not because she is better than Liam Rosenior for example.

Thank you and good night.

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Sir Colby-Tit

Sir Colby-Tit

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Chloe1992 said:

Not immature at all, that is precisely what you want to say without saying it. 

Men have been represented at the ‘top table’ ever since punditry began. It’s about time women were aswell because guess what? People without a penis have an opinion on football too. 

Did you have a problem with the lower league pundits not having a chance before? I guess not. Did you call for Paul Merson, Paul Ince, Robbie Savage to name a few to step down for these professional, articulate men on the EFL shows? I doubt it. You only had a problem when the women showed up. 

They’re here to stay my friend, get used to it and maybe have an actual listen to their analysis, you might learn a thing or two. Good night ?

That's all well and good, but a man can only listen to a woman talk for an average of 5.4 seconds before his mind wanders. We shouldn't have to miss important analysis. 

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downendcity

downendcity

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, reddoh said:

but remember not to chain them to the kitchen sink as they wont be able to clean the rest of the house.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

deepest apologies to all the ladies on this site just a very  old joke and no offense meant.

On a transatlantic flight the plane got into difficulties, so the pilot announced to the passengers that it looked like the plane would be going down.

With that the stewardess rushed into the cockpit and asked the Captain just how bad things were, and he told her they had no chance of recovery.

"In that case" said the stewardess, " which of you two is going to make me feel like a woman one last time".

At this the Captains said "OK I will"  whipped off his shirt, handed to to the stewardess and said " iron this for me will you?"

 

 

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reddoh

reddoh

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Posted
1 hour ago, downendcity said:

On a transatlantic flight the plane got into difficulties, so the pilot announced to the passengers that it looked like the plane would be going down.

With that the stewardess rushed into the cockpit and asked the Captain just how bad things were, and he told her they had no chance of recovery.

"In that case" said the stewardess, " which of you two is going to make me feel like a woman one last time".

At this the Captains said "OK I will"  whipped off his shirt, handed to to the stewardess and said " iron this for me will you?"

 

 

would have have liked or haha'd as I have unlimited but as I laughed out loud I decided you deserved a human response. Not that I think your humour is up to date and modern but I did laugh

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reddoh

reddoh

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, downendcity said:

On a transatlantic flight the plane got into difficulties, so the pilot announced to the passengers that it looked like the plane would be going down.

With that the stewardess rushed into the cockpit and asked the Captain just how bad things were, and he told her they had no chance of recovery.

"In that case" said the stewardess, " which of you two is going to make me feel like a woman one last time".

At this the Captains said "OK I will"  whipped off his shirt, handed to to the stewardess and said " iron this for me will you?"

 

 

just watching die hard two as the plane crashed guess he didn't need a ironed shirt and should of @Rudolf Hucker'd her

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