Booing at half time

[Undy English]

On 09/03/2019 at 19:21, Jacki said:

Was anyone else surprised by the amount of people booing at half time today? 

Granted we were really poor in the first half but was there really any need to give the players a reception like that? We’re punching above our weight in 7th, and we were playing one of the best teams in the league today. 

I’d be really interested to know what any of the people who vented at half time want/expect from this group of players? 

Johnson sounded surprised and pretty pissed off about the booing in his post match interview and I don’t blame him.... 

Can't condone it at all this season. We're over-achieving, higher in the table than any dared dream, and were only 1 nil down to one of the strongest teams in the division. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

2 hours ago, Lucan said:

That's a very long speech just to say what is in bold.

You think booing is harmful, others don't.  No need to patronise everyone with a history of the word "supporter" and amateur psychology...

"a secure base"  have a word with yourself, this isn't a shelter for battered women

I think that if the aim of booing - and other indifferent forms of apathetic support in which we do rather well and not infrequently - was to improve the team's performance, we might've seen some sign of it working by now.

But, as I say, we have been mediocre for 40 years.

If you reckon booing your own players is going to lead to anything good longterm, you're going to be disappointed. It doesn't work as a longterm motivator.

Leeds fans get on their players backs, yes; but when their team delivers, they make a racket and really back their team. We do the former, but precious little of the latter.

 

If you don't get the secure base thing then either I haven't explained it properly, or you haven't been paying attention to the public utterances of Lee Johnson since he's been here (see his comments about players needing to be "brave" on the ball). Whether you are a "battered woman" or a high level performance athlete, or, indeed, a plasterer from south Bristol - ie, if you are human - you are subject to emotion, feeling and their impacts on your behaviour, including how you do your job. Fear, for example.

A truth and a fact you cannot get around or away from.

 

[Natchfever]

17 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

The last thing a team needs is to be booed, what they should have is support to lift them, but the problem is all seater's  stadium, cosy surroundings and the 'affluence' of the supporter that can afford to go, that's not the blood and guts supporter, they are the ones that cant afford  the prices, football was a working mans game, now it is just for the well heeled in the main, they would be that last to do anything but sit tight.    

I am afraid Bristol the City is just to lilly white liberal...IF the club really want the fans to make a noise slash prices, get the right stuff in.....

Sorry are you saying booing is a middle class thing ?

If so that is utter bollocks.

If prices were more affordable the crowd would be more full of people willing to express their views forcibly.

[Numero Uno]

14 hours ago, Greatgraham said:

I stand by it, maybe I know more then your narrow mind. I don’t need you or anyone to tell me whether i should withdraw from this debate. If you want to have a serious debate on this your welcome.

define: work

Yes, these lads don’t do a 40-50 hour week like the rest of us but don’t kid yourself that after 10 minutes of Championship football you wouldn’t be blowing out of your arsenal and need a lie down for a week!!!

[Natchfever]

22 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, these lads don’t do a 40-50 hour week like the rest of us but don’t kid yourself that after 10 minutes of Championship football you wouldn’t be blowing out of your arsenal and need a lie down for a week!!!

Haha certainly true but championship players have a dream lifestyle have they not ?

Adulation and respect when things go even moderately well at BCFC, A mild spot of booing, and the manager and apologists are upset.

Comes with the profession and frankly our players and management get off very lightly compared to any other club I can think of. 

Storm in a teacup provided the players and their manager step up and deliver now.

[Numero Uno]

18 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Perhaps when they aren’t (over a season) over performing beyond expectations despite a number of key injuries and limited reinforcement in January, and still hold the outcome of their season in their own hands. If You were generally over performing at work and people started to turn on you after a couple of bad days I don’t think you’d feel too motivated - and no the amount of pay doesn’t stop a humans emotions before you mention how much they earn

I think most footballers are thick skinned enough to get over a small minority of fans booing them. They know that if they put three or four past Ipswich tonight the very same fans (if they bother to turn up) will be cheering them!! That’s the way professional football works.

Too many were below par on Saturday and coupled with the fact we were playing a better side than us if we’re honest about it, that meant a few childish boos rang around the ground. They’ll get over it.

[Numero Uno]

3 minutes ago, Loon plage said:

Haha certainly true but championship players have a dream lifestyle have they not ?

Adulation and respect when things go even moderately well at BCFC, A mild spot of booing, and the manager and apologists are upset.

Comes with the profession and frankly our players and management get off very lightly compared to any other club I can think of. 

Storm in a teacup provided the players and their manager step up and deliver now.

Agree. Johnson should have kept his trap shut. Reacting to it like he did only makes things worse if and when the lads put in a truly dire performance!!

[SedRA]

41 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

I think that if the aim of booing - and other indifferent forms of apathetic support in which we do rather well and not infrequently - was to improve the team's performance, we might've seen some sign of it working by now.

But, as I say, we have been mediocre for 40 years.

If you reckon booing your own players is going to lead to anything good longterm, you're going to be disappointed. It doesn't work as a longterm motivator.

Leeds fans get on their players backs, yes; but when their team delivers, they make a racket and really back their team. We do the former, but precious little of the latter.

 

If you don't get the secure base thing then either I haven't explained it properly, or you haven't been paying attention to the public utterances of Lee Johnson since he's been here (see his comments about players needing to be "brave" on the ball). Whether you are a "battered woman" or a high level performance athlete, or, indeed, a plasterer from south Bristol - ie, if you are human - you are subject to emotion, feeling and their impacts on your behaviour, including how you do your job. Fear, for example.

A truth and a fact you cannot get around or away from.

 

So are we saying that booing isnt the problem? Its the lack of voicferous support to balance it out we are missing? I would go with that personally. 

Many of the 'big' succesful clubs have very high standards and their fans are quick to let the players know if the team are not putting in the effort required. However they also back them up with vociferous support them when they see the team are responding to the criticism or are at it from the off. 

Digging a few people (it wasnt particularly loud booing) out for venting some frustration at the players for a perceived lack of courage, effort etc seems a bit of a red herring to me.

More the question is... where is the vociferous support from the majority to turn it around? Get that problem sorted and I think you'll have a lot less concerns about whether a few people boo at half time or not...

[Natchfever]

1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Agree. Johnson should have kept his trap shut. Reacting to it like he did only makes things worse if and when the lads put in a truly dire performance!!

Odd because LJ isn't shy about publicly digging them out himself is he ? I would have thought the public humiliation from your manager is more damaging than some anonymous boos from a crowd of punters who will sing your name next time you do anything decent - we are that desperate.

Of course if LJ doing that gives them the gee up they need then what is the difference between that and paying customers ?

[shelts]

Pure disappointment and nothing else . 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Lucan said:

Show me something to back any of what you have said up:

- That mediocrity over 40 years can be linked to booing / lack of cheering ("But, as I say, we have been mediocre for 40 years.")

- That players perform better when booing is removed ("It doesn't work as a longterm motivator.")

- That Leeds fans are proven to be fair booers ("Leeds fans get on their players backs, yes; but when their team delivers, they make a racket and really back their team.")

- That City fans are proven to be fickle booers ("We do the former, but precious little of the latter.")

I await your factual response.  Not your opinion thinly veiled as a psychological analysis of the effects of booing on sporting achievement. 

I would point first to the words of players themselves, and managers and head coaches (including the current one). They might be worth paying attention to. I do not recall one instance of a player, manager or coach asking for the crowd to "remind us that we are paid 15 or 20 thousand a week and not earning it" or whatever it was @pillred said above, and give us a good booing whenever you decide fit.

And you haven't seen one either.

I think we both know what players, managers and coaches regularly ask of their supporters.

That'll do for starters: the words of those out there on the pitch, and those managing them (who once played themselves). See Lee Johnson in the guardian in 2016 talking about "emotional intelligence" and players needing to be brave (because of the negative reaction of supporters to mistakes).

Good enough for you? The interviews with players and managers and coaches? 

 

You care to provide any of the "factual" stuff you are so keen for me to come up with to back up your view that it is not harmful to the team to boo them?

Try getting there early tonight and greeting the players as they emerge from their flashy cars and calling Bailey Wright a "****" or shouting "boo" at Marlon Pack: you'll get some "factual" idea then about the responsorship of players to people 

But most do this from the safe anonymity of the crowd, or online. I wonder why?

 

The booing of players is less to do with improving the fortunes of the team and much more about "reminding the players how lucky they are, and how they are not earning their 20k a week" as @pillred put it, in this thread. "I feel shit, so I want you to feel shit, you c***" that's about the size of it. You can quote this line now and ask for facts to back it up while ignoring the invitation to come up with some yourself.

 

 

 

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, RedSA said:

So are we saying that booing isnt the problem? Its the lack of voicferous support to balance it out we are missing? I would go with that personally. 

Many of the 'big' succesful clubs have very high standards and their fans are quick to let the players know if the team are not putting in the effort required. However they also back them up with vociferous support them when they see the team are responding to the criticism or are at it from the off. 

Digging a few people (it wasnt particularly loud booing) out for venting some frustration at the players for a perceived lack of courage, effort etc seems a bit of a red herring to me.

More the question is... where is the vociferous support from the majority to turn it around? Get that problem sorted and I think you'll have a lot less concerns about whether a few people boo at half time or not...

We have the booing, and the groaning when passes go astray, and the scape-goating of certain players - like every club - but we don't have the vociferous backing when needed (with obvious, if rare, exceptions). We all know this. Ashton Gate is a cauldron of apathy nowadays (even the booing is rubbish).

Lucan will want to distract from this by asking for "facts" to back it up, but we know it is true. We are a mediocre crowd in terms of vocal backing. 

I have said elsewhere that the reason we have been mediocre for 40 years is because we have had mediocre decision-makers at the club with insufficient funds. 

I don't think the crowd make that much difference either way, probably, overall, but as others have referred to, we know from our own experience that someone shouting at you at work and calling you a "****" is not a motivator, on the whole. Other than the motivation to find employment elsewhere.

Johnson frequently asks the crowd to sing the players names and back the team: I've yet to see him ask us to remind the players when they are not earning their money, or how lucky they are.

It might be that the likes of Lucan and others are more accustomed to a caustic atmosphere in their working and personal relationships and sharp words and reminders how lucky they are and insisting "it never did me any harm" and "quick to anger, slow to praise" situations but I don't see any players asking for this. Performing in public in a highly competitive and pressured environment is about confidence and overcoming fear and other negative, inhibiting emotions (Lucan will want the "factuals" here) and your own crowd calling you a "****" and booing is never going to provide long-term assistance with any of that.

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

5 hours ago, Lucan said:

 

You think booing is harmful, others don't.  

There's your claim that you can back up with facts, as you are asking others to do. Divert and distract away from this now. Off you go....

[Red-Robbo]

Are people really trying to make the argument that no one booed at football "in the old days"?!   

Memory of a goldfish, some folk...    

[KeepUpLino]

3 hours ago, Undy English said:

Can't condone it at all this season. We're over-achieving, higher in the table than any dared dream, and were only 1 nil down to one of the strongest teams in the division. 

How dare we dream of beating the mighty Leeds... ******* embarrassing!!!

[pillred]

20 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

We have the booing, and the groaning when passes go astray, and the scape-goating of certain players - like every club - but we don't have the vociferous backing when needed (with obvious, if rare, exceptions). We all know this. Ashton Gate is a cauldron of apathy nowadays (even the booing is rubbish).

Lucan will want to distract from this by asking for "facts" to back it up, but we know it is true. We are a mediocre crowd in terms of vocal backing. 

I have said elsewhere that the reason we have been mediocre for 40 years is because we have had mediocre decision-makers at the club with insufficient funds. 

I don't think the crowd make that much difference either way, probably, overall, but as others have referred to, we know from our own experience that someone shouting at you at work and calling you a "****" is not a motivator, on the whole. Other than the motivation to find employment elsewhere.

Johnson frequently asks the crowd to sing the players names and back the team: I've yet to see him ask us to remind the players when they are not earning their money, or how lucky they are.

It might be that the likes of Lucan and others are more accustomed to a caustic atmosphere in their working and personal relationships and sharp words and reminders how lucky they are and insisting "it never did me any harm" and "quick to anger, slow to praise" situations but I don't see any players asking for this. Performing in public in a highly competitive and pressured environment is about confidence and overcoming fear and other negative, inhibiting emotions (Lucan will want the "factuals" here) and your own crowd calling you a "****" and booing is never going to provide long-term assistance with any of that.

 

no one has said booing has a positive effect, it is a sign of disappointment and frustration, I know that and I'm sure most fans know it as well, but how else are you supposed to react. I have also seen the crowd try to lift the players when things are not going well, not sure if you are a saint but can you hand on your heart tell me you have never once booed at any match ever, if so then you truly are a man that could walk on water.

[1bristolcity]

3 hours ago, Loon plage said:

Sorry are you saying booing is a middle class thing ?

If so that is utter bollocks.

If prices were more affordable the crowd would be more full of people willing to express their views forcibly.

Saying just the opposite, typical knee jerk Loon.

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, pillred said:

no one has said booing has a positive effect, it is a sign of disappointment and frustration, I know that and I'm sure most fans know it as well, but how else are you supposed to react. I have also seen the crowd try to lift the players when things are not going well, not sure if you are a saint but can you hand on your heart tell me you have never once booed at any match ever, if so then you truly are a man that could walk on water.

I did when I was younger, I remember calling our lot some choice words at Fratton Park in the early 90s. Generally, my 'booing" was reserved for the board of directors which we saved for after the game.

Nowadays, no, I do not go in for any whistling of our own lot. The ref, I do lose it with.

Thank you for saying that no one says it has a positive effect, that I was trying to get an answer to. And I agree, I think it is all to do with how the individual fan feels about losing, or not winning, and what they do with that unpleasant feeling (ie pour it out on to a player, or manager).

If players are clearly downing tools, not trying, then let them have it. No problem with that. If they are trying but failing then letting them know how you feel about not winning is unlikely to lead to the outcome we all desire, as I see it. The opposite is more likely, in my opinion.

Players, coaches and managers all appeal for positive encouragement, never the opposite of this, so I am assuming from this that the opposite - booing your own - is not beneficial, it's shooting yourself in the foot. I'd rather let the ref have it and put pressure on him.

 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Lucan said:

How very devious of me to actual ask for evidence to back up any of your long-winded drivel  

I mean, heaven forbid I shouldn't be hanging off your every word on this subject.  I must have forgotten that you had "a quote from Lee Johnson i 2016" to prove your point.

And once again I will point out to you that at no time have I claimed that booing, insults or anything similar is constructive.

If you are going to play the intellectual card, as you so clearly are trying to do I suggest you actually have something to back up your claims?

 

 

I'm not even sure what you are trying to say here, the whole thread is literally about that very thing. Nil poi.

As well as any player or coach/manager interview referencing the subject of supporter influence on their own players (which you don't appear to be much interested in), you could try Joel Thirer & Mark Rampey, 1979. 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

Yes, these lads don’t do a 40-50 hour week like the rest of us but don’t kid yourself that after 10 minutes of Championship football you wouldn’t be blowing out of your arsenal and need a lie down for a week!!!

I’ll swap, I trained since I was 11 and am 65 and still train everyday. Train between 2-4 hrs a day. I trained with footballers in the past and ran rings around them. I think their training and what they eat now has improved. And i went to work.

To do the things you love and get paid is not work. I trained because I enjoyed it (unpaid). Unfortunately age is catching up.

[Natchfever]

2 hours ago, 1bristolcity said:

Saying just the opposite, typical knee jerk Loon.

Sincere apologies.

You said the following :

"The last thing a team needs is to be booed, what they should have is support to lift them, but the problem is all seater's  stadium, cosy surroundings and the 'affluence' of the supporter that can afford to go, that's not the blood and guts supporter, they are the ones that cant afford  the prices, football was a working mans game, now it is just for the well heeled in the main, they would be that last to do anything but sit tight.    

I am afraid Bristol the City is just to lilly white liberal...IF the club really want the fans to make a noise slash prices, get the right stuff in....."

Not sure where my knee has jerked there. Was your post ironic ? I have copied all of it as you know, and I don't sit on this forum long enough to study the style of posters i'm afraid.

[Furious Custard]

I booed AND I WILL DO IT AGAIN . For any fan to have paid the money to endure another poor first half performance with countless missed passes and little to no attacking threat against a team that isn't far off from ourselves I feel that I should be able to make my feelings known. 

I cheer and shout and sing along when we are getting up the field and creating chances. The team has to earn it.

If we go in at halftime tonight without any attacking threat or a goal down I will boo. 

[MarcusX]

On 11/03/2019 at 18:44, Greatgraham said:

Is that based on a 40-60hr a week on shit pay or based on a 2-4hr on good pay?

Nothing more needs to be said to this, nonsense.

[MarcusX]

Booing our debutant keeper (who did admittedly have a bit of a stinker) is really going to help his confidence I’m sure.

the commentators have spent all night saying how obvious the nerves were in the air

I’m sure people still think it’s helping the team though

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, MarcusX said:

Booing our debutant keeper (who did admittedly have a bit of a stinker) is really going to help his confidence I’m sure.

the commentators have spent all night saying how obvious the nerves were in the air

I’m sure people still think it’s helping the team though

Change the record to this boring nonsense 

[Redrascal2]

On 09/03/2019 at 20:22, Alex_BCFC said:

I think there is a wider point on how poor we play in first halves at AG. But yeh no need for the booing given where we are. Sadly quite a few jokers who don’t live in real world boo at half time. 

The wider point being that Johnson and the coaching team seem incapable of doing anything about it.

[Alex_BCFC]

15 hours ago, Redrascal2 said:

The wider point being that Johnson and the coaching team seem incapable of doing anything about it.

Although ironically we were much better first half yesterday (after first 18 minutes) than we were 2nd half. Not that we were great in that first half either!