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PFree

Atmosphere - it is easy to explain...

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I'm sure this will get some interesting responses but for me it is fairly straight forward:

1) We only average a shade over a goal a game

2) We have fairly high possession stats but it's mostly in our own half with the ball going sideways or backwards, we are based around not conceding or trying to nick one-nil wins

3) We absolutely lack leaders, the players that wind the crowd up through tough tackles or where they demonstrate a real desire for the badge - anybody remember psycho and perhaps we are missing the likes of Flinty more than expected?

4) We don't have any players who appear capable of flying down the wing and who go past opposition players with ease, Jacki, Scotty types (Elliason for me is the closest at the moment to be fair but isn't quite there yet)

5) Finally, we hardly ever have shots on goal due to only ever playing one striker or as a result of having little quality in the final third - one shot on target this week against the side bottom of the league and we were at home??

This doesn't feel like rocket science, even when on the good run I very rarely left feeling at all entertained - surely the best form of defence is attack..?

And before you jump on me, I've followed City for decades so have been there through many lows, and yes, I have been a ST holder for most of that, and yes, I have already renewed :) 

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You are overlooking one major fact - an all seater stadium and the design/acoustics  of the SS where the ‘singers’  are located.

Put them in the Atyeo where the acoustics are better and a relatively small number of away fans can generate more sound outwards on onto the pitch.

Bugger all to do what’s being served up on the pitch. The atmosphere was far better before the AG revamp.

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7 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You are overlooking one major fact - an all seater stadium and the design/acoustics  of the SS where the ‘singers’  are located.

Put them in the Atyeo where the acoustics are better and a relatively small number of away fans can generate more sound outwards on onto the pitch.

Bugger all to do what’s being served up on the pitch. The atmosphere was far better before the AG revamp.

This is very strange comment indeed. Remember back when we had the Atyeo as our home end and people moaned that the acoustics were very poor!!

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All your points are spot on except for 4. Cant really compare the game then to what is now, its totally different. Plus that was when we were in L1 (3rd division) where defending was of a much poorer quality to what it is these days in the championship.

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4 minutes ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

This is very strange comment indeed. Remember back when we had the Atyeo as our home end and people moaned that the acoustics were very poor!!

But they’re not poor.

Why and how can a couple of hundred away fans be heard all around AG?  Better acoustics is why.

In the Dolman we barely hear the singers in the SS.

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26 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You are overlooking one major fact - an all seater stadium and the design/acoustics  of the SS where the ‘singers’  are located.

Put them in the Atyeo where the acoustics are better and a relatively small number of away fans can generate more sound outwards on onto the pitch.

Bugger all to do what’s being served up on the pitch. The atmosphere was far better before the AG revamp.

   Really?  Would have to say it’s got everything to do with what’s being served up on the pitch.............at least when you had Murray tearing down the wing terrorising the opposition left back it gave the fans something to get off their arses for.

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Cheer the team on? Not much to cheer about in all honesty. Last night I spent most of the game moaning a cussing Paterson who constantly fell over and gave the ball away. 

 

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12 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

If you work 1½ hour peer week and  don't got a brain dead leadership how can you use the word tired when you are in your 20's?? 

Who works 1.5 hours a week?

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7 minutes ago, swanker said:

Cheer the team on? Not much to cheer about in all honesty. Last night I spent most of the game moaning a cussing Paterson who constantly fell over and gave the ball away. 

 

Did you cheer when City scored?  I did but like you I spent much of game moaning about Paterson...........:facepalm:

Edited by Robbored

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27 minutes ago, Robbored said:

But they’re not poor.

Why and how can a couple of hundred away fans be heard all around AG?  Better acoustics is why.

In the Dolman we barely hear the singers in the SS.

But are those same away fans as loud when they are in their home ground? It has been mentioned many times how better the City away support is. It’s not all down to acoustics.

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57 minutes ago, Robbored said:

You are overlooking one major fact - an all seater stadium and the design/acoustics  of the SS where the ‘singers’  are located.

Put them in the Atyeo where the acoustics are better and a relatively small number of away fans can generate more sound outwards on onto the pitch.

Bugger all to do what’s being served up on the pitch. The atmosphere was far better before the AG revamp.

The "Atmosphere" is so poor because we are playing dreary football that is capable of sending us to sleep.

After a lifetime following City through a few (thick) good periods but mostly thin times, and renewing my ST on the first day, I am seriously wondering whether to call it a day.

I genuinely thought with the stadium rebuild, that we would make some progress. Yes we have, will reply many and in some ways, I will not argue with that point of view.

But with a team in that manages to have an average of two attempts at goal in most home games, the boredom and predictable slow, sideways passing, one striker and two or three players that are chosen every game yet contribute little or nothing, I wonder at my sanity.

How many others are having the same thoughts?

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8 minutes ago, windmillhillred said:

Crowd needs to turn up, both figuratively and literally. Be surprised if there was 17,000 there. For a team in the top six with ten games to go that's really, really poor. 

It was live on tv........that always affects attendances. Plus it was bloody cold......several guys who sit around me weren’t there last Probably watching it live on Sky in the pub or at home.

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The atmosphere was very poor last night. At some points during the game only a hand full of people were signing in the singing section, which was a shame as a good atmosphere may have meant we performed a bit better on the pitch. 

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1 hour ago, PFree said:

I'm sure this will get some interesting responses but for me it is fairly straight forward:

1) We only average a shade over a goal a game

2) We have fairly high possession stats but it's mostly in our own half with the ball going sideways or backwards, we are based around not conceding or trying to nick one-nil wins

3) We absolutely lack leaders, the players that wind the crowd up through tough tackles or where they demonstrate a real desire for the badge - anybody remember psycho and perhaps we are missing the likes of Flinty more than expected?

4) We don't have any players who appear capable of flying down the wing and who go past opposition players with ease, Jacki, Scotty types (Elliason for me is the closest at the moment to be fair but isn't quite there yet)

5) Finally, we hardly ever have shots on goal due to only ever playing one striker or as a result of having little quality in the final third - one shot on target this week against the side bottom of the league and we were at home??

This doesn't feel like rocket science, even when on the good run I very rarely left feeling at all entertained - surely the best form of defence is attack..?

And before you jump on me, I've followed City for decades so have been there through many lows, and yes, I have been a ST holder for most of that, and yes, I have already renewed :) 

Outrageous post. How dare you!!

( spot on, by the way!). 🤗

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Boredom is the main factor in our very poor atmosphere. 

The games on large have been very boring this season, I wonder if ST sales will be down on this years? 

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6 minutes ago, Red94 said:

The atmosphere was very poor last night. At some points during the game only a hand full of people were signing in the singing section, which was a shame as a good atmosphere may have meant we performed a bit better on the pitch. 

... if they were signing then that would definitely have an impact on the noise... add to the visuals though. 

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18 minutes ago, windmillhillred said:

Crowd needs to turn up, both figuratively and literally. Be surprised if there was 17,000 there. For a team in the top six with ten games to go that's really, really poor. 

I was thinking more like 15/16k last night. It seemed busier for Bristol vs Gloucester and that was 16911 

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Amazed Robbored says its nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.

It's everything to do with what happens on the pitch. Exciting football , near missies , winning hard tackles and 50 /50 balls all get any crowd going.

Last night was typical of so many home games this season.  Very slow start , we didn't have a kick until 20 minutes in.Nothing to get excited about , opposition having  larger share of possession  and more goal attempts . We had hardly any shots on goal, lost almost every second ball  and our possession was sideways or backwards  with little or no attacking threat. 

Fans near me in the Lansdown were  dismayed and angry with the way we played and the lack of leadership from the manager who failed to make any changes until Ipswich has equalised. Our 3 subs were out warming up for at least 15 minutes before asked to get changed. Even when they were changed ,Lee  waited another 5 minutes before bringing them on.

 

 

 

 

 

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I have said on here countless times that LJ struggles to motivate players when heads are down.

This is a key attribute to successful man management. Last night was painful to watch as a City fan. Season ticket renewals/sales will be interesting.

Edited by GasDestroyer
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18 minutes ago, Marlborough Red said:

Amazed Robbored says its nothing to do with what happens on the pitch.

It's everything to do with what happens on the pitch. Exciting football , near missies , winning hard tackles and 50 /50 balls all get any crowd going.

Last night was typical of so many home games this season.  Very slow start , we didn't have a kick until 20 minutes in.Nothing to get excited about , opposition having  larger share of possession  and more goal attempts . We had hardly any shots on goal, lost almost every second ball  and our possession was sideways or backwards  with little or no attacking 

Remind me where we are in the Championship table?

Remind me when it was City we’re on an unbeaten run?         :cool2:

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5 minutes ago, The Horse With No Name said:

I've spent most of the season moaning about Paterson 

As we all have.

Oddly enough when Palmer started ahead of Pato recently most of us were delighted but even more delighted at the start of the second half when Pato replaced Palmer..........:dunno:

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

It was live on tv........that always affects attendances. Plus it was bloody cold......several guys who sit around me weren’t there last Probably watching it live on Sky in the pub or at home.

add in the fact its almost impossible to park anywhere I know blokes that have drove to ag and give up and gone home loads of times.....

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I'd love to know how many fans go to 'Support' City, or watch City play.

I go to watch City play...I support them with my attendance and money, but I'm not a shouter, chanter or singer.

Tbh...most people I know who go are like me, and most who sit around me are the same. We watch, chat and applaud...sometime 'encourage' or moan. But it's all done in low tones.

Now if you go as a 'Supporter' who loves to sing and chant whilst watching, this for me is a different scenario.

It's a chicken and egg scenario between vocal supporter and team.

We all want the team to turn up from the first minute...do the vocal supporters turn up from the first minute? Or do they just react?

From a 'watcher'...it seems to me, the majority of 'singers' are reactionary and most vocal when we are winning.

Doesn't it need to be more so when we are losing or under the Kosh? Encouraging the players to react positively?

Surely we expect the tem to turn up every week...but do we expect the 'vocalists' to turn up every week?

From a watchers point of view it's an interesting scenario.

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2 hours ago, swanker said:

Cheer the team on? Not much to cheer about in all honesty. Last night I spent most of the game moaning a cussing Paterson who constantly fell over and gave the ball away. 

 

You aren't sat beside me are you? 

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To answer your points Robbored;

Even when Teams are top of the league , take Manchester City or Liverpool for example, there are games  that I've watched on TV when the atmosphere has been so quiet one can hear the players / managers shouting out to each other.

Long periods of sideways possession football  with no scoring attempts,  or spells dominated by the away team, regardless of league position can  cause the home atmosphere to drop.

You must have heard many managers say before  an away game , "our first priority is to quieten the home crowd" 

To prove the point, a team coming from behind putting pressure on the opposition ,playing well and creating chances will always get the home fans cheering , regardless of league position.

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3 hours ago, Peter1450 said:

   Really?  Would have to say it’s got everything to do with what’s being served up on the pitch.............at least when you had Murray tearing down the wing terrorising the opposition left back it gave the fans something to get off their arses for.

Exactly - when we had Smith and Gavin having their full backs on toast before delivering delicious crosses for The Boys From The County Hell - Taylor/Turner - The Gate was deafening....with much lower crowds....we’ve just got nothing to get excited about anymore....

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

But they’re not poor.

Why and how can a couple of hundred away fans be heard all around AG?  Better acoustics is why.

In the Dolman we barely hear the singers in the SS.

The singing section is in the corner, the noise created travels onto the pitch and away from the Dolman stand. The away support by nature is made up of people that are more fanatical about their team, so travel to away games and because of their enthusiasm, make more noise. Home support is a mixed bag of people, not all of the same ilk, some will sing or shout encouragement, others will applaud. I sit in the Lansdown and hear singing from S82, occasionally the Dolman and regularly the South Stand, rarely the Lansdown as I'm singing/shouting when we are pressing as a team. When it's a good game more people enjoy it and join in creating a better atmosphere. How long have you been attending football now? It's not just acoustics, though they can play a part.

Equally those singing/making a noise, don't hear others making a noise or singing, because they can't hear them over the noise they and people around them are making.

In conclusion, our fans appear more reactive than proactive but, create a decent enough atmosphere when the team are playing well. It goes hand in hand. Put on a good show and the fans react likewise.

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4 hours ago, Robbored said:

You are overlooking one major fact - an all seater stadium and the design/acoustics  of the SS where the ‘singers’  are located.

Put them in the Atyeo where the acoustics are better and a relatively small number of away fans can generate more sound outwards on onto the pitch.

Bugger all to do what’s being served up on the pitch. The atmosphere was far better before the AG revamp.

Quite how other club's fans make so much more noise than us with a similar fanbase remains a mystery. 

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For me the main reason why there is a lack of atmosphere is

The new type of fan who now goes to football

I know at least 20 people who go to City now who if you asked them anything

about football 10/15 years ago would say they have no real interest in the game

But now football is the in thing They must be seen to go

Know for a fact they wont be there if we ever go down

 

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45 minutes ago, CotswoldRed said:

Quite how other club's fans make so much more noise than us with a similar fanbase remains a mystery. 

It’s the acoustics - better from the Atyeo than every other stand at AG.

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Exactly - when we had Smith and Gavin having their full backs on toast before delivering delicious crosses for The Boys From The County Hell - Taylor/Turner - The Gate was deafening....with much lower crowds....we’ve just got nothing to get excited about anymore....

While I get that.

Different times, football was different. Try that now and good chance at this level you'll get picked apart either through the midfield or on the break.

If it's a quick counterattacking game maybe not but that aside, teams very well drilled or dominant in possession- both can counteract this old school 4-4-2 quite well.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Exactly - when we had Smith and Gavin having their full backs on toast before delivering delicious crosses for The Boys From The County Hell - Taylor/Turner - The Gate was deafening....with much lower crowds....we’ve just got nothing to get excited about anymore....

One of my favourite periods as a City fan.  Today, when we take a shirt corner or free-kick there are audible groans.  In that Jordan period, it was time to get on your feet because Gavin was about to start a dribble that would end up with a chance for Taylor, or if Smith he was about knock it 20 yards past his man and sprint onto it to cross to Turner.

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5 hours ago, swanker said:

Cheer the team on? Not much to cheer about in all honesty. Last night I spent most of the game moaning a cussing Paterson who constantly fell over and gave the ball away. 

 

And just to piss you off again  johnson has said hes playing at Sheffield

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14 hours ago, jaydee=inspiration said:

This is very strange comment indeed. Remember back when we had the Atyeo as our home end and people moaned that the acoustics were very poor!!

Compared to the East End the acoustics were very poor. 

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9 hours ago, Maltshoveller said:

For me the main reason why there is a lack of atmosphere is

The new type of fan who now goes to football

I know at least 20 people who go to City now who if you asked them anything

about football 10/15 years ago would say they have no real interest in the game

But now football is the in thing They must be seen to go

Know for a fact they wont be there if we ever go down

 

I have come to the conclusion that not everyone particularly enjoys being a Bristol City fan. It's as though they are there under duress, reluctantly, like an adolescent made to go to church on a Sunday, or an adult still attending church through habit (and/or to get the kids into a decent school) but their attention and interest is elsewhere. It's a bit of a chore, and they're not joining in with the singing. No chance. Plus, there's embarrassment at any displays of true belief, faith and devotion. And enthusiasm.

I think we have a crowd rather too like a Church of England congregation, with one difference: our numbers are not (yet) dwindling. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s the acoustics - better from the Atyeo than every other stand at AG.

The acoustics don't make any difference when people are sat chatting and not singing. 

Volume is one thing. Silence is another. 

 

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As someone who sits near the S82 lads I can confirm atmosphere is reactionary. Apart from the core S82 lot of about 10-12 lads who try all game long to get stuff going, the majority of fans only join in when something exciting is happening on the pitch.

Quite simple really: play good exciting football and the atmosphere and plaudits will follow.

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17 hours ago, PFree said:

I'm sure this will get some interesting responses but for me it is fairly straight forward:

1) We only average a shade over a goal a game

2) We have fairly high possession stats but it's mostly in our own half with the ball going sideways or backwards, we are based around not conceding or trying to nick one-nil wins

3) We absolutely lack leaders, the players that wind the crowd up through tough tackles or where they demonstrate a real desire for the badge - anybody remember psycho and perhaps we are missing the likes of Flinty more than expected?

4) We don't have any players who appear capable of flying down the wing and who go past opposition players with ease, Jacki, Scotty types (Elliason for me is the closest at the moment to be fair but isn't quite there yet)

5) Finally, we hardly ever have shots on goal due to only ever playing one striker or as a result of having little quality in the final third - one shot on target this week against the side bottom of the league and we were at home??

This doesn't feel like rocket science, even when on the good run I very rarely left feeling at all entertained - surely the best form of defence is attack..?

And before you jump on me, I've followed City for decades so have been there through many lows, and yes, I have been a ST holder for most of that, and yes, I have already renewed :) 

1) Correct- but the woodwork has been struck really quite often. Haven't we had 3-4 goals disallowed too in dubious circs- think back to Derby and Nottingham Forest away, Swansea at home- first 3 for Weimann. Pisano v QPR too. Suggests that there is an element of luck at play. 15 times we have hit the woodwork this season...bit mad!! Before we even consider the 3-4 goals disallowed in questionable circs.

2) Are we talking at home or in general? Only this claim of us as a possession dominant side is a bit patchy when actually analysed- oft stated on here but the stats don't always bear it out. For the record and I know it encompassed games v top sides- Norwich about 41%, Birmingham about 65%, Preston about 50%, Leeds 47% and Ipswich about 50%. Bear in mind Birmingham tend to concede possession as part of their game plan anyway- as a side better without the ball.  Now are we doing enough with what possession we do have? I'd argue certainly not last few games- Norwich we managed to make some chances but beyond that...I don't think we have been a possession top heavy side (talking mid to high 50's or even above) though this season in the main, certainly not as an average per game- it's a bit of a myth often propagated on here. I'll analyse all that later though. These were inflated by Rotherham being down to 9, Bolton and Millwall- and even in their own way Middlesbrough- being reactive sides who aren't so bothered about it.

3) True, but leadership can come in different ways. Quiet yet authoritative leadership can be effective too- that said Flint was excellent in this (leadership) respect.

4) Game has changed at decent levels- would argue if we set up with 2 wingers like that, it could leave us wide open to compact sides or possession heavy ones. In a 4-3-3 then maybe as we would have the extra security in midfield behind, Juventus (a world class side granted) showed this to great effect v Atletico on Tuesday night, based on highlights I have seen. Anyway it's Championship but not Champions League but still some principles may remain similar. Eliasson has some promise in this respect- I'm sure the club in their wisdom have such bases all covered but if somehow not, get Scotty coaching him, helping to perfect the art of wing play- one to one, fairly intensively! Depends how we would set up with it though IMO- ideally you need that security in midfield combined with wingers who can cause big problems- more like wide forwards these days?

5) How many strikers do Norwich play up front? Or Leeds for that matter- nobody complains about either of their entertainment value. That said little excuse for the lack of end product in the final 3rd...we hit the woodwork first half though, we get that and we probably (undeservedly) win the game. One up front is a red herring IMO- some of the top sides in the world play a '1' up front, it's the support and movement or lack thereof that is the big issue for me. Diedhiou is not the man for that job- I'd consider Weimann what with his clever runs and ability to run all day, or Taylor for similar reasons but perhaps less early runs. Diedhiou often jogs or not even that around the pitch..

Edited by Mr Popodopolous

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The atmosphere around most English grounds has become completely sanitised. The demographic of fan has certainly changed i would say for us as a club. Far too many snowflakes in the crowd that want a nice experience. Its no suprise that our best atmosphere this season was Swansea at home when a large majority of our older faces were out for the day.. there was trouble yes but it goes hand in hand with an intimidating atmosphere.. it always has in football IMO.  Certainly not the kind of advert Bristol Sport want to portray though.. heaven forbid the middle classes stay away with there pockets full of cash will be the thinking in our boardroom!

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17 minutes ago, bris red said:

The atmosphere around most English grounds has become completely sanitised. The demographic of fan has certainly changed i would say for us as a club. Far too many snowflakes in the crowd that want a nice experience. Its no suprise that our best atmosphere this season was Swansea at home when a large majority of our older faces were out for the day.. there was trouble yes but it goes hand in hand with an intimidating atmosphere.. it always has in football IMO.  Certainly not the kind of advert Bristol Sport want to portray though.. heaven forbid the middle classes stay away with there pockets full of cash will be the thinking in our boardroom!

There's enough spare seats to allow both to attend. 

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