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Should we recruit a D.O.F?


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To help LJ and the coaching staff fight for promotion?

This could be the missing link.  I'd go for Chris Hughton, or push the boat out and get someone else on a higher salary with top experience.  Does FFP restrict the amount of wages SL could offer to a non-playing member of staff?

It's time to show serious intent to reach the Premier League, and as much as I love LJ, I have doubts that his efforts, coupled with the relatively inexperienced duo of Holden and Macillister, are up for the challenge of promotion.

There are clearly negatives and positives to such an idea, but overall, if the right man came in and LJ was in 100% agreement, it could be just what the club needs.

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Joe Jordan?

Experienced- knows the club, contacts aplenty- ex manager but presumably no ambitions to get back into it. Spent time in Italy too as a player so may have some links into their market too.

If not as DoF, on the coaching staff? Think would be an idea worthy of serious consideration- but as DoF? Think it has a lot of positive points...

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21 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

To help LJ and the coaching staff fight for promotion?

This could be the missing link.  I'd go for Chris Hughton, or push the boat out and get someone else on a higher salary with top experience.  Does FFP restrict the amount of wages SL could offer to a non-playing member of staff?

It's time to show serious intent to reach the Premier League, and as much as I love LJ, I have doubts that his efforts, coupled with the relatively inexperienced duo of Holden and Macillister, are up for the challenge of promotion.

There are clearly negatives and positives to such an idea, but overall, if the right man came in and LJ was in 100% agreement, it could be just what the club needs.

No I don't think so. Could be more disruptive than helpful.

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The other problem thinking about it with a DoF is you have to be very careful about who you choose.

Now that goes for recruitment in general of course, but with a DoF- if you have someone like Hughton who still surely has managerial ambitions, that could go very wrong, very quickly.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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I'll say what I always say on these threads.

All of the clubs that make a Director of Football role work well - Barcelona, Real, Bayern etc. appoint a specialist Director of Football who wants to do that job, rather than someone who has never been a Director of Football and has shown no interest in the role but is interested in managing and could undermine the manager's job.

If LJ ever left, Chris Hughton might be a good choice of manager. But Hughton has never been a Director of Football and there is no evidence he would want to do it or has the skills for it. Ditto Joe Jordan. If you want to appoint either of them as manager, sack the bloody manager and appoint them but it is utterly foolish to make them a square peg in a round hole. If we ever get a Director of Football, I want it to be someone who I've never heard of who has a track record of doing a fantastic job behind the scenes. Not someone who wants to be managing.

I also don't think we need to disrupt the structure at the moment. 

 

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52 minutes ago, reddogkev said:

To help LJ and the coaching staff fight for promotion?

This could be the missing link.  I'd go for Chris Hughton, or push the boat out and get someone else on a higher salary with top experience.  Does FFP restrict the amount of wages SL could offer to a non-playing member of staff?

It's time to show serious intent to reach the Premier League, and as much as I love LJ, I have doubts that his efforts, coupled with the relatively inexperienced duo of Holden and Macillister, are up for the challenge of promotion.

There are clearly negatives and positives to such an idea, but overall, if the right man came in and LJ was in 100% agreement, it could be just what the club needs.

I don't believe LJ would appreciate someone effectively being his superior in terms of position, and if you're mentioning someone like Chris Hughton, knowledge also.

That being the case, I can't see it happening.

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21 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'll say what I always say on these threads.

All of the clubs that make a Director of Football role work well - Barcelona, Real, Bayern etc. appoint a specialist Director of Football who wants to do that job, rather than someone who has never been a Director of Football and has shown no interest in the role but is interested in managing and could undermine the manager's job.

If LJ ever left, Chris Hughton might be a good choice of manager. But Hughton has never been a Director of Football and there is no evidence he would want to do it or has the skills for it. Ditto Joe Jordan. If you want to appoint either of them as manager, sack the bloody manager and appoint them but it is utterly foolish to make them a square peg in a round hole. If we ever get a Director of Football, I want it to be someone who I've never heard of who has a track record of doing a fantastic job behind the scenes. Not someone who wants to be managing.

I also don't think we need to disrupt the structure at the moment. 

 

Agree...though I think Joe Jordan would by dint of him seemingly having no real managerial ambitions would be more suitable than Hughton who is in prime managerial age.

Jordan would be a good addition to the coaching staff though, I am sure of that. May have contacts here and in Italy to help us with an edge in the market as well.

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agree...though I think Joe Jordan would by dint of him seemingly having no real managerial ambitions would be more suitable than Hughton who is in prime managerial age.

Jordan would be a good addition to the coaching staff though, I am sure of that. May have contacts here and in Italy to help us with an edge in the market as well.

I agree Jordan would be a great addition to the coaching staff and would definitely be someone to look at if LJ and his team wanted someone with more experience and a connection to the club. 

I suppose the issue for me is we are talking about three very different roles. Football management is about winning games, getting the right player for this season and getting a tactical edge on the pitch. A Director of Football is about the long-term strategy and identify of the club, identifying a long-term plan that ensures the club still has good talent coming through in fifteen years and planning ahead. And a coach is someone who can work with people on a one-to-one basis.

They are three very different roles needing very different skills. You can be great at coaching an individual but terrible at managing a team. You can be great at managing a team but terrible at overseeing a long-term strategy. And you can be great at the long-term stuff but not have a clue how to coach someone on a football pitch.

Far too often people seem to think someone who is good at coaching can do the manager role or someone good at the manager role can do the DoF role. And the DoF role in particular tends to present it some sort of compromise because they sort of want a more experienced manager and sort of want the one they have. But it isn't a matter of experience but personal attributes.

If we wanted a Director of Football, the club should identify the skills they want and try to find someone who matches those skills. It just frustrates me when people say "we should appoint x as a Director of Football because they are a good manager" without recognising completely different skills are involved. 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Joe Jordan?

Experienced- knows the club, contacts aplenty- ex manager but presumably no ambitions to get back into it. Spent time in Italy too as a player so may have some links into their market too.

If not as DoF, on the coaching staff? Think would be an idea worthy of serious consideration- but as DoF? Think it has a lot of positive points...

Met Joe Jordan on the weekend. He was down the Gate so maybe it's already happening... ?

Or more likely just because he was guest speaker at Ashton girls/boys presentation day... cracking event!

He came accross very well and still clearly has a bit of love for City.

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If we actually did go down the DoF route we should in my opinion go for someone who has either done it elsewhere, or worked closely alongside a successful one.

A DoF should oversee the entire playing side of a club from the Academy upwards and should be accountable for player and staff recruitment and retention.

That would tend to lead us towards someone from the continent, but as I said earlier I don't think LJ would like that one bit because whatever he may be called, he is a manager in the traditional English mould rather than a continental coach who works with the players he is given. A DoF would naturally cut across the English manager role which is why it hasn't really worked here (happy to stand corrected on that)

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46 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

I'll say what I always say on these threads.

All of the clubs that make a Director of Football role work well - Barcelona, Real, Bayern etc. appoint a specialist Director of Football who wants to do that job, rather than someone who has never been a Director of Football and has shown no interest in the role but is interested in managing and could undermine the manager's job.

If LJ ever left, Chris Hughton might be a good choice of manager. But Hughton has never been a Director of Football and there is no evidence he would want to do it or has the skills for it. Ditto Joe Jordan. If you want to appoint either of them as manager, sack the bloody manager and appoint them but it is utterly foolish to make them a square peg in a round hole. If we ever get a Director of Football, I want it to be someone who I've never heard of who has a track record of doing a fantastic job behind the scenes. Not someone who wants to be managing.

I also don't think we need to disrupt the structure at the moment. 

 

I agree, it is a specialism in itself and not necessarily just a step from being a Manager.

36 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

What is the role of a director of football?

The biggest key of all, a Job Profile would need to be created and clear lines drawn between, that persons role and that of the Manager and in our case the finance role that Mark Ashton has. It would be a very difficult post to set up and avoid stepping on the toes of the existing roles. 

I often wonder if the tasks that would be covered by the roles are currently split between the three roles that LJ, Macca and Holden hold and BT's youth role. I get the impression that Macca and Holden are mu h more than just coaching staff. 

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We need someone with a love for Bristol City

Someone with a lifelong connection to the club

Someone who is unafraid to give an opinion - even though they know little or nothing about the subject 

Someone who has had a successful career (and never fails to mention it) 

Someone with time (too much time)  on their hands

Someone who will stand up to the manager .....(well maybe not - you can't have everything!)

Someone not afraid to tackle any job .....even driving the team minibus  if necessary

 

only one man for the job..................Robbored !!

 

and the icing on the cake is he'll be too busy to post on OTIB

 

 

 

Edited by CodeRed
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55 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I agree, it is a specialism in itself and not necessarily just a step from being a Manager.

The biggest key of all, a Job Profile would need to be created and clear lines drawn between, that persons role and that of the Manager and in our case the finance role that Mark Ashton has. It would be a very difficult post to set up and avoid stepping on the toes of the existing roles. 

I often wonder if the tasks that would be covered by the roles are currently split between the three roles that LJ, Macca and Holden hold and BT's youth role. I get the impression that Macca and Holden are mu h more than just coaching staff. 

I think the last bit is a key point. We know LJ and BT are ensuring all teams from the young kids up are playing with the same style and philosophy and we know MA is ensuring the scouting teams have a long list of possible targets and contingencies in all positions, negotiating contracts and ensuring we sell players for as much as we think we can get for them. I imagine SL and MA have contingency plans in place to ensure continuity in the event of a change of a manager.

I am genuinely unsure what it is that the OP feels we should be doing that we are not doing and a DofF would do. It seems like what he is pushing for is a mentor or advisor to LJ but that is a very different thing to a Director of Football and doesn’t need to be a formal role within the club. And it might be something he has already.

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